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What happens next

On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 18:36:33 +0100, Donna Evleth <...@wanadoo.fr

I found this article on how military justice will handle the Fort Hood
shooter on a death penalty group to which I subscribe. I found it a good
article, knowledgeable and balanced.

Donna Evleth

------------------

US MILITARY:

How the Fort Hood Shooter Will be Judged

In a time of war, they volunteered to defend us. They would have died as
heroes for us. Had they, at least their families might be making some
sense of the terrible loss they must feel now. With loss, there might at
least be meaning the understanding that their loss is what history has
always deducted from our hearts to keep evil at bay for a greater good,
for freedoms that are not free. But Nidal Hasans murder of twelve soldiers
at Fort Hood will be all the more agonizing for the families because there
is simply no making sense of it. It had no meaning. There are no words to
express how contemptible it was this cowardly theft of brave young lives
from the parents who invested decades of love in their children, of
spouses who will never be consoled, and of children who not know mothers
and fathers.

There are no root causes, "legitimate" grievances, or divided loyalties
that can explain Nidal Malik Hasan, though in due course, some will try to
find them. Here, I do not refer to the Army defense counsel who will be
burdened with the dreaded duty of defending a man they will assuredly and
justifiably loathe, but must defend anyway. For 4 years, I was an Army
Trial Defense Counsel myself. The military conditioning to protect young
soldiers is so deeply instilled in commanders and noncommissioned officers
that most deeply appreciated my zeal even as I attacked the evidence for
the charges they had sent to trial, often with reluctance. For Hasan, the
dynamic will be very different. Those who judge Hasan will see repellent
dishonor in a man who murdered the soldiers every officer swears he will
lead and protect, who betrayed the country he swore to defend, and who
killed and maimed despite swearing an oath to heal, to do no harm. If
religion was Hasans motive, his was an extraordinarily promiscuous view of
the meaning of ones oath to God. No officer can be, or should be, forgiven
for betraying and harming soldiers.

The Army will want to exercise jurisdiction over Hasan's crimes under the
Uniform Code of Military Justice. It is the Army way, and it is consistent
with the authority of Article 2 of the UCMJ to punish offenses by a man
wearing its uniform, against its soldiers, within the boundaries of its
largest post. The civilian system could try him, but it is Hasan's good
fortune and I will soon explain why that it probably won't.

For those of us who play no role in Hasan's trial, no punishment but death
seems appropriate, yet the obvious justice of such an outcome is far from
assured. For one thing, President Obama will have to attend and speak at
these soldiers funerals. Silence will not be an option. How can he console
without appearing to prejudge guilt and punishment? He must. Any such
statement would allow defense attorneys to argue that Obama's comments
constitute unlawful command influence and demand that the charges should
be dismissed, or that the death penalty must be excluded. At best, appeals
alleging unlawful command influence would delay any execution
indefinitely. Prepare yourself for President Obama to sound mealy-mouthed,
but it is important to understand that the legal context will dictate
this.

As soon as Hasan is well enough to understand them, charges will be
preferred on him, and an Article 32, UCMJ hearing will be set. The lawyers
will use this hearing to explore the evidence of premeditation, Hasan's
sanity, and potential evidence to mitigate punishment. The Article 32
officer will almost certainly recommend referral of the case to a General
Court Martial with the authority to adjudge capital punishment, and the
Commanding General is almost certain to follow that recommendation. The
evidence of premeditation already seems substantial, and that is before
all we will learn about Hasan's chats, blogs, and e-mails in the coming
days. Then will come numerous motions to appoint experts and consultants,
conduct discovery, and dismiss charges. In less time than it would take in
the civilian system, a panel not a jury of at least 12 officers will be
selected, all of whom must outrank Hasan (that is, the lowest-ranking
member must be a major with a date of rank earlier than Hasan's). If they
convict Hasan, they will proceed to adjudge a sentence.

Writing in the Military Law Review in 2006, three years after my brief
stint as editor, Marine Colonel Dwight H. Sullivan wrote that of the 47
capital cases the military has tried in recent decades, just 15 have
resulted in death sentences. The trial and sentencing in this case will
take a year or 2 much less time than it might take in the civilian
system, but that is only the beginning. If Hasan is sentenced to death,
the case will enter the military's meticulous appellate system, which has
reversed more death sentences than it has affirmed. There have been no
military executions since 1961, and there are 6 men sitting in the
military's death row today. Of these, only one appears to be at all close
to execution; in 2008, President Bush approved the execution of convicted
serial killer Private Ronald Gray, but Gray still sits on death row for
crimes he committed in the 1980's.

The infuriating reality we are left with is that if Nidal Hasan survives
his injuries, he may end up spending the remainder of his life in the
company of Hasan Akbar, who also sits on death row for the murder of his
comrades.

(source: New Ledger; Joshua Stanton, a former JAG officer, is an attorney
in Washington, DC.)



On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 00:55:37 -0500, Planet Visitor II <...@earthlink.net

On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 18:36:33 +0100, Donna Evleth <...@wanadoo.frwrote:

So did I...

Planet Visitor II

>in Washington, DC.)

On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 19:55:18 +0000, John Rennie <...@talktalk.net

Snipped excellent article except for this:

"Prepare yourself for President Obama to sound mealy-mouthed,
but it is important to understand that the legal context will dictate
this."

The idiots like peejay and jiggy will take no
notice of the legal context.

On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 21:50:32 +0100, Earl Evleth <...@wanadoo.fr

On 7/11/09 20:55, in article QPWd...@giganews.com,
"John Rennie" <...@talktalk.net

Obama has a great talent for saying the right thing but he
won't say the accused is guilty. Hs is man of law in that
sense. Bush was not, he and Cheney were dodging the law
all the time.

On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 21:50:17 +0100, Donna Evleth <...@wanadoo.fr

One of the reasons I posted this good article by someone in a position to
know. I am hoping, doubtless in vain, but nonetheless hoping, for an
awareness of basic realities here. The author of the article can hardly be
accused of being 1) soft on crime; 2) a liberal; 3) an apologist for
Muslims. Thus his opinion is all the more valuable.

Donna Evleth

On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 20:54:45 +0000, John Rennie <...@talktalk.net

Not that difficult a case to defend though. "The defendant is
insane - I rest my case"

On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 21:39:58 +0000, "Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )"
<...@yahoo.co.uk

You'd make a good lawyer.

--
What I hate about flip flops is the flip and the flop.

On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 21:59:03 +0000, John Rennie <...@talktalk.net

Well thank you, Bill.

On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 08:44:32 +0100, Earl Evleth <...@wanadoo.fr

On 7/11/09 22:59, in article JvSd...@giganews.com,
"John Rennie" <...@talktalk.net

In the US you have to be "very insane" to use that defense successfully.
If he had a record of "hearing God's voice telling him to defend
Islam by killing the non-faithful he would have a chance.

On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 17:50:45 +0000, "Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )"
<...@yahoo.co.uk

This is why Rennie was going to hop around on one leg and the other
stuff too.

--
What I hate about flip flops is the flip and the flop.

On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 22:54:10 +0000, "Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )"
<...@yahoo.co.uk

I also expect you'll dance around the room on one leg while
quacking like a duck and then wetting yourself so that the
defendant can later claim he got poor legal assistance and move for
a new trial. Rennie, always ready to run the extra kilometre for
ya.

--
What I hate about flip flops is the flip and the flop.

Anonymous Wrote:

Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )
<...@yahoo.co.uk

Did you get out of the wrong side of the bed today? Is that why you are
addressing John so disrespectfully? He has never referred to you as
"Bonde".

Your mindlessly unflappable demeanour seems to be showing some cracks.
Interesting, even if it is the only interesting thing about you.

--
The Professor: What's "Friends"?
Satan: A TV show. Six characters in search of a smack in the mouth.
- Andy Hamilton, Old Harry's Game

On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 00:30:43 +0000, "Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )"
<...@yahoo.co.uk

You obviously haven't noticed that I nearly always refer to people
by their last names around here, the exception usually being Earl
and Donna because they share last names, usually even when they go
by silly nyms. I call you Mr Diablo. To call that "disrespectful"
is really ridiculous. It's actually polite. What planet do you come
from to think that using the polite form of the last name is
impolite?

The fact of you being cracked seems even more obvious than usual.
While complaining about me not being overly familiar, you posted
the following in other messages: "Subhuman Mike is a fucked in the
head racist." and "Well fuck me dead, Jiggy, she was." Good grief!

--
What I hate about flip flops is the flip and the flop.

Anonymous Wrote:

Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )
<...@yahoo.co.uk

I'm only noting it, Bill. It is actually impolite to refer to people
you don't know (or know well) by their last name if you omit any kind of
honorific. I have no issue with this, Bill, but you are generally quite
polite so I am only wondering if you are having a particularly bad day.

I'm not polite, Bill. I'm a rude cunt when all's said and done and I
don't pretend otherwise. That does not disqualify me in any way from
making an observation that you were uncharacteristically rude on one
occasion or another.

Do try to follow what is actually the simplest of logical trains, Bill,
or you'll end up getting off at the wrong station entirely.

--
The Professor: What's "Friends"?
Satan: A TV show. Six characters in search of a smack in the mouth.
- Andy Hamilton, Old Harry's Game

On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 03:38:21 +0000, "Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )"
<...@yahoo.co.uk

No it isn't.

I generally refer to people by their last names. One reason is not
to be too chummy, but the other is that there are often multiple
people with the same first name. That's why Donna and Earl are
special.

You call me "Bill", so by your own rules, you are more polite than
I am, as I call you "Li'l Diablo".

I was making a joke about Rennie being such a good lawyer that he'd
even be a bad lawyer to give the defence one more chance to win.


I don't see how you can read what I wrote as anything other than
light-hearted humour, Li'l Diablo.

--
What I hate about flip flops is the flip and the flop.

Anonymous Wrote:

Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )
<...@yahoo.co.uk

Maybe it isn't on your ward but in the real world it most certainly is
in the UK, the USA, Canada and Australia. I do believe that you a
resident of one of those countries.

--
The Professor: What's "Friends"?
Satan: A TV show. Six characters in search of a smack in the mouth.
- Andy Hamilton, Old Harry's Game

On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 18:25:59 +0000, "Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )"
<...@yahoo.co.uk

You are now insulting me by claiming I'm held in a "ward" and
reasserting your original claim still sans any evidence. Proof by
repetition isn't acceptable, Diablo.

--
What I hate about flip flops is the flip and the flop.

Anonymous Wrote:

Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )
<...@yahoo.co.uk

Dearie me, Bill, the proof is there in spades. Your disconnectedness
from the real world, your ability to post at all hours of the day and
night and your inability to comprehend fundamentals of what the outside
world regards as offensive (e.g. your use of racist slurs) all point to
your most definitely being "in care".

I don't need to provide any evidence at all when you present it to us by
the bucketload.

--
The Professor: Ha! A Dolphin! Well I'll be buggered.
Satan: Never say that in Hell, Prof.
- Andy Hamilton, Old Harry's Game

On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 21:20:24 +0000, John Rennie <...@talktalk.net

I've stop repeating what Bill obviously regards as a slur. To
me it has been obvious for some time that Bill is not allowed
out in the real world. That doesn't mean that some of his
contributions aren't interesting or lack intelligence.

Discussion Title: What happens next
Title Keywords: What  happens  next