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DO ALL CHRISTIANS GO TO HEAVEN?

Anonymous Wrote:

Forwarded message from Stephen Knapp

DO ALL CHRISTIANS GO TO HEAVEN?

By Stephen Knapp
http://www.stephen-knapp.com
Friday, December 19, 2008

Most Christians feel that they are bound to go to heaven
simply because, as they say, Christ died for their sins.
This is one of the basic principles of Christianity, which
was an idea that originated from the apostle Paul. How do I
know this? Because I was born and raised a Christian for 20
years of my life and seriously studied it out of my own
conviction for several years as well. So, many Christians
seem to think, and some even say, that even if they cannot
give up all of their sinful habits, all they have to do is
believe in Jesus and that he died for their sins, and they
will be saved. It's very simple. So when they compare
Christianity with other religions, this is one of the
reasons why they point out it is so much easier than
others. They especially do this when preaching to Hindus or
Buddhists in their attempt to convince them to convert.
Yet, mere belief in Jesus and his crucifixion as being all
you need to be saved is a controversial point. Not all of
the gospels that were in circulation when the New Testament
was compiled agreed that the crucifixion was an act of
atonement. Nor when you really study the teachings of Jesus
is this elementary thinking advocated. It is a little more
complicated than merely believing in something, which the
next few pages will point out. This means that it may not
be so easy for just anyone to claim to be a Christian and
have an easy path to heaven.

First of all people need to realize that Jesus
was a Jew whose message was primarily for the Jewish
people. In Matthew (10.5-6), Jesus tells his twelve
disciples to go and preach, but not to the Gentiles (non-
Jews), nor to the Samaritans, but go to the lost sheep of
the house of Israel. This was to whom he wanted his message
to reach. Again in Matthew (15.22-24), a woman besought
Jesus and asked for mercy because her daughter was vexed
with a devil. But Jesus said nothing to her. Even his
disciples, who were Jews, asked him to send her away
because she cried after them. Yet his answer was that he
had come to this world only for the lost sheep of Israel.
His intention was to help only the Jewish people. Only
after much pleading from the woman did Jesus finally cure
her daughter. So this seems to indicate that Jesus' main
interest was with the Jews; yet, they completely rejected
him. They did not accept him as a divine savior. And when
he was crucified by the Romans, this was taken as further
indication that he was not the messiah that was described
in the Jewish prophecies. Nonetheless, the Gentiles and
non-Jewish people accepted the doctrine of Christianity and
now believe they are saved by the blood of Christ, which is
another concept that came primarily from the Apostle Paul.
You generally do not find this teaching before he
interjected his own thoughts and writings into
Christianity.

So do all Christians go to heaven? Not when you consider
all the rules for exclusion. According to the books in the
New Testament, Jesus left specific instructions that have
to be followed or entrance into heaven may not be as sure
as many Christians say. In Matthew (10.37), Jesus says that
if anyone loves his or her father, mother, son, or daughter
more than him is not worthy of him. But also in Matthew
(15.4), God commands that a person must honor his father
and mother, and he that curseth his father or mother must
die the death. So you must honor your parents, but not more
than you love Jesus or you will not get to heaven.

Jesus also explains in Matthew (12.36) that any idle words
a man speaks will have to be accounted for on the judgement
day. So you must also avoid idle words and gossip. That is
not an easy task for many people. Many so-called Christians
I see do not even make the attempt to curb such tendencies.
Jesus further explains in Matthew (16.23-28) that a person
must deny himself the interests or pleasures of men and
take up the cross and follow him if he expects to reach the
kingdom of God. This certainly indicates that more than
mere faith is expected of a Christian, but how many can
deny themselves of the common pleasures of men and take up
the cross?

In Matthew (18.34-35), Jesus says that the Lord will punish
you if you do not forgive everybody of their trespasses
against you. And again in Matthew (25.35-46) we find that
it is expected that a good Christian must feed and clothe
the poor, and take in the homeless, though they be
strangers, for as much as you do this for them, you do it
also for Jesus. And if you ignore such people, it is as if
you ignore Jesus, and you will go into everlasting
punishment.

Now we can see that the requirements for getting into
heaven are getting more demanding. But wait, there is more.
In Matthew (19.20-30), a man comes to Jesus and wants to
follow him, but Jesus tells him to first sell everything he
has and give the money to the poor. However, the man could
not bring himself to do that and sadly went away. Jesus
explained to his disciples that hardly any rich man can
enter heaven; it is easier for a camel to go through the
eye of a needle. Then his disciples were amazed and
questioned, if this was the case, who could be saved? Jesus
replied that all things are possible with God, but those
who have forsaken houses, father, mother, wife, children,
or property for his name's sake shall inherit everlasting
life. So the conclusion is that if you cannot become
renounced, you miss that everlasting life.

Similarly, in Luke (6.20, 24-30), Jesus says blessed are
the poor, for they shall reach the kingdom of God, and woe
to the rich, woe to those who are full for they will be
hungry, and woe to those who laugh now for they will know
sorrow. Plus, you must love and do good to your enemies and
those that hate you, give the other cheek for those that
hit you, do not forbid anyone to take your coat, and do not
ask that your goods be returned from one who takes them.
(This is all a huge difference compared to the time and
tactics of the Inquisition, which tortured or killed anyone
who refused to be a good Christian.)

In Luke (9.61-62), there is the story of a man who came to
Jesus and asked to follow him, but first simply wanted to
bid farewell to his family. But Jesus rejected him and said
that no man, having once put his head to the plough and
looks back, is fit for the kingdom of God. In another place
in Luke (9.59-60), Jesus orders a man to follow him, but
the man requests that Jesus first allow him to bury his
dead father. Jesus, however, says to let the dead bury
their dead, and go preach the kingdom of God. In Matthew
(5.21-22), Jesus explains that if a person kills another he
shall be in danger of the judgement. But he further
explains that simply getting angry at another without just
cause shall also put one in danger of the judgement. And
(Matthew 5.20) unless your own righteousness exceeds that
of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall in no case enter
the kingdom of God.

What all this seems to indicate is that anyone who wants to
follow Jesus has to display a high degree of detachment and
renunciation from the world and its material attractions
and pleasures, and take up the cross. Otherwise, they are
not true followers of Jesus, nor are they fit for the
kingdom of God. Many Christians may feel that faith alone
is all they need to be saved, but these biblical quotes of
Jesus certainly indicate that he expected and required much
more than that. And the direct quotes from the Bible and
from Jesus should certainly carry more weight than the
rationalizations of the Christian pastors and priests when
they try to minimize the seriousness of what has been said
herein.

So what happens to all those who cannot measure up to the
proper standard? In Matthew (13.41-42), Jesus says that the
Son of man will send his angels who will gather out all the
things that offend and the people who do iniquity and cast
them into a furnace of fire where there will be great
wailing and gnashing of teeth. If all these rules that
Jesus explains must be followed perfectly, along with all
the commandments, etc., in order for Christians to get to
heaven, then that furnace must be a mighty big place. But
what kind of God would create a hell where people eternally
suffer? Especially if, according to Christian theology,
they are given only one lifetime to have one chance at
either becoming perfect and righteous or go to eternal
hell. What is the value of eternal punishment if it never
ends and the soul does not get the chance to rectify
himself? Why would God create living beings who have a
fallen tendency and then send them to suffer eternally if
they cannot measure up to the proper standard? Threatening
someone with eternal damnation is hardly an expression of
love and mercy. Therefore, this Christian concept of God
and hell makes little sense because this form of punishment
is not a matter of rehabilitation, but is based on an
attitude of anger and vengeance. What need does God have
for this if He is a God of love, mercy, and compassion? Why
would God spend His time acting like an angry tyrant? He
certainly has better things to do. And as we look into the
Vedic conception of God and the nature of His personality
as described in the Puranas, we certainly do find a much
different and more appealing revelation of the
characteristics of the Supreme Being.

The Christian concept of God is that He is a God we must
fear. To verify this some people, of course, will point out
that in Exodus (20.5) it is written that God says He is a
jealous God. But a person exhibits jealousy or anger when
he is afraid of losing something, feels insecure, is
competing with another, or does not get what he wants. So
why would God, who is the creator and controller of
everything, feel insecure or fearful? Qualities such as
jealousy, insecurity, anger, or vengeance are qualities
found in the modes of passion and ignorance. And these
modes do not touch the Supreme. But God is perceived
differently by different cultures.

In the Bhagavad-gita (9.18), Lord Krishna says that He is
the creation, the basis of everything, the sustainer, the
goal, the refuge, the master, and the most dear friend.
This is a much more appropriate understanding of God.
Naturally, He must be our friend since we are all parts of
His spiritual energy. The only thing that gives the
appearance of our being in opposition with God, or being
fearful of Him, is our ignorance of spiritual reality. This
ignorance must be overcome with spiritual knowledge, not
compounded by the inadequacies of a religion that is
lacking in spiritual awareness and provides a deficient
understanding of God. The goal of any complete spiritual
path is to attain enlightenment of God, our spiritual
identity, and our relationship with God. The goal of the
Vedic path of bhakti is to develop love and devotion for
God, but you cannot love someone when you are afraid of
him. Love and fear are incompatible. Therefore, a
spiritually realized person will find it difficult to
accept that God is angry, jealous, or vengeful. Why should
God be angry or vengeful with us when the universal laws
that have been established by God automatically take care
of whatever good or bad things we deserve? One who is
spiritually realized knows that God allows us the freedom
to do what we want within the confines of the universal
laws, such as the law of karm, and is always waiting for us
to turn toward Him, and that He is a God of love, mercy,
compassion, and unfathomable understanding. This is God as
He really is and is the God we will know in our state of
spiritual enlightenment. This is the benevolent God we
learn of in the Vedic literature. This is the Supreme Being
who cares more about us than we do Him, but who is always
waiting for us to turn toward Him and is always with us as
Supersoul, Paramatma, the Lord in the heart. This is what
is described in detail within portions of the Vedic
literature. Thus, we can begin to recognize the depth of
genuine spiritual knowledge, if we look in the right
places.

More information can be found on his large website,
http://www.stephen-knapp.com

End of forwarded message from Stephen Knapp

Jai Maharaj
http://tinyurl.com/24fq83
http://www.mantra.com/jai
http://www.mantra.com/jyotish
Om Shanti

Hindu Holocaust Museum
http://www.mantra.com/holocaust

Hindu life, principles, spirituality and philosophy
http://www.hindu.org
http://www.hindunet.org

The truth about Islam and Muslims
http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate

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On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 07:18:06 -0800 (PST), uNmaiviLambi <...@yahoo.com

On Dec 20, 1:58 am, use....@mantra.com and/or http://www.mantra.com/jai (Dr.

Christianity is a great hoax perpetrated on mankind, one of the twin
evils of mankind, Islam being the other, an even worse doctrine. Jesus
himself never said he was god or that he was the only son of god or
that he was the son of a virgin. In fact, he said he was not good,
asked his followers to drink poison, handle deadly snakes, be bitten
by scorpions, hate their parents, siblings, buy two swords ( to kill
obviously) even if it meant they had to sell their shirt, wanted those
who refused to follow him or his disciples dead, to be killed. He
promised to roast those who opposed him, in what he termed "hell". His
followers notably Paul, a serial killer, devised this scheme of being
saved through the blood of Jesus. Jesus never asked any ones
permission before he committed suicide or was murdered by his "god",
if they would like to be saved thus. So it is preposterous to suggest
he died for others!

This being the case not only will Christians not go to heaven, Jesus
himself probably spent time in hell and was reborn to try to lead a
better life. I am not sure of his current status.

Thanks for the posting

Dhanvaadhaaha

On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 13:34:57 -0500, Doug Wimbish <...@bass.gov

As are ALL religions, especially Hinduism.

On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 14:44:08 -0800 (PST), uNmaiviLambi <...@yahoo.com

On Dec 20, 1:34 pm, Doug Wimbish <...@bass.gov

You agree Christianity is a hoax. As for, Hinduism you have to give
cogent reason with proper references to substantiate your view. Merely
saying so is not sufficient or rational. Your turn

On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 12:05:12 -0500, Doug Wimbish <...@bass.gov

I already did.
Like Christianity, Hinduism is just another foolish religion/belief
designed by silly, yet entrepreneurial men, that had "visions" after
they got drunk and/or had hallucinations from eating the local opiates,
so as to get laid, or gain power/money.

Now, it's your turn.
Prove your "gods" exist.

I can't prove a negative, so it really is up to you and your ilk to
prove positive.

Don't YOU feel foolish, now... or should my Kharma run over your Dogma?

On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 09:39:10 -0800 (PST), Mudali <...@sympatico.ca

On Dec 21, 12:05 pm, Doug Wimbish <...@bass.gov
Are you getting information on Hindu religion from any Christian
church?

On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 13:45:14 -0500, Doug Wimbish <...@bass.gov

How could I get "information" from any church regarding another stump
stupid religion?

I never went to one on mu own free will.

PLEASE try to pay attention, OK?

I said that ALL religions are based on stupidity and ignorance.

That is why I don't believe in that crap.


On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 09:45:23 -0800 (PST), Mudali <...@sympatico.ca

On Dec 21, 12:05 pm, Doug Wimbish <...@bass.gov
Hindu Religion is not an ORGANIZED one like Islam or Christianity.
Catholics have accepted a criminal NAZI as their head in Vatican.
Islamic Ayatollahs pass death sentences. But Hindus?

You are wrong in your comments. Hindu religion do not support MONEY/
WEALTH. Hinduism ask the people to giveup greed and help poor people.

No "entrepreneurial men"designed Hindu religion. Can you show a single
name if you know anyone?

On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 14:01:10 -0500, Doug Wimbish <...@bass.gov

Then it is an "unorganised" thing that you people have and believe in?
Explain the "Hindu Temples" built all over the planet, and who paid
for them, while the people starve and live in poverty.

Like I said... ALL relgions are based on stupidity!
Only IDIOTS believe in "gods."
You are an idiot.

You HATE Christians, Muslums, and other "Non Believers" just like Jay
Stevens.

Then explain the temples built for your dieties, and the povershed
people that built them in India.

They are all dead now.. who cares?
YOU morons still believe in the supernatural, santa clause, the easter
bunny, Shiva, and other multi-limbed freaks of nature.

Hindu "believers", still to this day, marry and have sex with snakes and
dogs!


On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 09:18:10 -0800 (PST), uNmaiviLambi <...@yahoo.com

On Dec 21, 12:05 pm, Doug Wimbish <...@bass.gov

I never even imagined you will be so uninformed and ignorant. You seem
to know nothing about Hinduism and yet comment. Any way, let us see if
you reply properly so it is worth my time or I will stop.

What do you mean by God? Please give a cogent decent answer so we can
discuss, if it is possible at all

On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 14:33:23 -0500, Doug Wimbish <...@bass.gov

Yet, you still can't answer the question I asked you.

Are _you_ so "informed" and also so enlightened with knowledge that you
can PROVE that your 'god' exists beyond any reasonable doubt to EACH and
every person that guestioned it?

Why are you holding back on this info?
:)

Show your "gawd".
Explain why YOU hate/fear those that call themselves "Christian" or
"Muslum".

What's there to know?
You are all a week-willed subhumanoid people that believes in a book of
ancient date made from hate, all designed to make you all feel great,
while you fold spindle and mutilate, people from a neighboring state,
that don't believe in the same "gawd" that you do.

ALL religions are based on fear and stupidity!
No Common sence was involved at any time when they were conceived.

Define "properly."
Do I have to agree with you?

And who is "us"?

And you can stop any time you want.

I already know that all you have is "A faith"... but no proof that
your "gods" could possibly exist.

The mere fact that I could put DOUBT in your tiny closed mind, scares
the crap out of you.

The deities that your kind believe in, of course.
Don't you even know what your pathetic religions are based on?

Hinduism is NOT a "philosophy" based on smart thinking, any more then
the other major religions are.
Like I said before, ALL religions are based on STUPIDITY, Hatred, fear
of the unknown, and whack jobs like you that subscribe to them!

What's to further discuss?
You are a believer in Hinduism... right? (who cares?)

I am not.

Some are believers in Christianity... right? (who cares?)

I am not.

Some believe in one form of 'god' or another... right?

I know better, and have not fallen into those pits of doom, guilt, and
dispair.


On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 12:13:51 -0800 (PST), uNmaiviLambi <...@yahoo.com

On Dec 21, 2:33 pm, Doug Wimbish <...@bass.gov

I can explain everything beyond doubt. You have to be patient and
think and analyze. Those who cannot do so are unfit for this
knowledge. You seem so far incapable of proper attitude. I will see
further. Your understanding of the term god is different from mine.
Words have different meanings. You have to tell me your understanding
first. I did not talk of god or gods at all. You brought this first


On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 17:17:49 -0500, Doug Wimbish <...@bass.gov

When?
I'll stand by and wait for your proof... but for only so long.

Explanations only count while we are both alive and able to understand them.

Can't _you_ 'explain' now?
What's the hold up?

I did.

Analyze what?
Think about what?
If you don't know now, YOU are in doubt!

What "knowledge" are you not providing?

All you have is "Hope of the unknown".
I already know what happens when I die.

I get my ashes placed in an urn... hopefully.

On the contrary.
My attitude is perfect, simple, and without fear of people.
I am a Caucasian male, married to an older, educated Asian woman.

We are both tolerant of "religions", but know better then to become a
part of that crap.

YOU "people" hate another because you think your "god" is better then
some other schmucks "god".

Religion is the base cause of all Earths stump stupidity.

I don't believe in "gods" at all, so you are basically
correct...technically.
After all, you possibly believe in a supreme being(s), while I simply
know that I am the supreme one.
Even my my wife screams "OH (my name)! " when she has an orgasm! :)

But if you are Hindu, then you had best admit that it was you that
bought it on, love your Muslim/Christian/etc. brethren equally, and
denounce the hate criminal Jay Stevens, AKA Jai Maharaj.

On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 14:28:59 -0800 (PST), uNmaiviLambi <...@yahoo.com

On Dec 21, 5:17 pm, Doug Wimbish <...@bass.gov

Till you define what you deny or do not accept i.e., god, there is no
discussion possible. I thought you had an idea of what you deny.

On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 16:05:37 -0800 (PST), DKleinecke <...@gmail.com

On Dec 21, 2:28 pm, uNmaiviLambi <...@yahoo.com
At the risk of getting myself into trouble, I think what Doug is
denying is the existence of anything except the known physical
universe. He is asking you to "prove" that there is something more
than the subject matter of science. What you need to respond to is the
standard for proof. I suspect that Doug, like most atheists, has
loaded the definition of proof to the extent that he will always win.
The details of Hinduism or whatever religion you are discussing do not
matter.

One possible answer is that he cannot prove that supernatural entities
do not exist.

On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 16:45:25 -0800 (PST), uNmaiviLambi <...@yahoo.com

On Dec 21, 7:05 pm, DKleinecke <...@gmail.com

He did not say that. Assuming he said that, even then it is invalid.
Beauty, poetry, morality, ethics, justice, love, brotherhood etc etc
are all not physical entities. Human experience is not limited to
physical universe though that is the preoccupation of most of science,
but not all. Science is *only a methodology* and is not and will never
conclude anything as a final certitude. It is always evolving and
always changing. Hence what is *truth is not attainable by science*
even though it provides a methodology which is greatly beneficial.
Having said that, it is entities that are not physical which are much
more important and the physical universe is a vehicle for the
expression of those things that are invisible ( non-physical) and
human experience is essentially nonphysical in its purpose and
content. Physicality is its vehicle

What you need to respond to is the

I am fully aware of the atheist position and have met many. However,
what I wanted him to do is to define what he denies i.e., God.
Semantics being what they are, discussion is impossible and would be a
waste of time, if there are no agreed terms. I do not indulge in name
calling. No time or use for that

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Having said that,
absence of evidence could also be fertile imagination such as pegasus
or Star Trek

Thanks

On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 20:45:11 -0800 (PST), Dušan Vukotić <...@gmail.com

On Dec 22, 1:45 am, uNmaiviLambi <...@yahoo.com
Why wouldn't you go to church or alt.religion to continue your
disputes about god's existence?

DV

On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 12:41:10 -0500, Doug Wimbish <...@bass.gov

Dang, yer dense.
I already defined it.

On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 15:48:13 -0800 (PST), "dmitri mosier/iowa city, Iowa" <...@gmail.com

On Dec 20, 12:58 am, use....@mantra.com and/or http://www.mantra.com/jai (Dr.

Hey asshole! Stop posting this bullshit to Sci.lang. NOBODY THERE
GIVES A RAT'S ASS WHAT YOU THINK.....ABOUT ANYTHING. SO KNOCK IT OFF!

Discussion Title: DO ALL CHRISTIANS GO TO HEAVEN?
Title Keywords: CHRISTIANS  HEAVEN?