 |
|
 |
|
On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 18:13:05 -0700 (PDT), PEP010 <...@gmail.com
Monica dramatized: "This is one of the reasons I have come to love
Lizzy. She is brave and
speaks the truth. FBi thugs couldn't chase her away from the Anna Mae
story."
OK, what FBI "thugs" have tried to "chase her away" from copying and
pasting in copies of someone else's book?
Documentation, please.
She's not heroic. She's just posting on her blog.
And yes, it is false, hypocritical, and deceitful to keep dragging her
stuff here and promoting here when she's white and you, Monica, call
other white women "maggots" and say whites shouldn't speak about
Indian topics.
If Tool had real courage, she'd post here herself instead of just
talking about alt.native. Then again, why should she? She's got Monica
to promote her, she promotes Monica, they both make wild claims and
disdain others. Two tools out of the same kit.
LL
|
|
 |
|
 |
 |
|
 |
|
On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 18:17:13 -0700 (PDT), Monica <...@gmail.com
On Apr 26, 6:13 pm, PEP010 <...@gmail.com
You are one funny sellout. I'll bet your husband is white?
|
|
 |
|
 |
 |
|
 |
|
On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 19:40:35 -0700 (PDT), Hope <...@gmail.com
On Apr 26, 8:17 pm, Monica <...@gmail.com
And I'll bet a White woman stole your man.
|
|
 |
|
 |
 |
|
 |
|
On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 20:37:20 -0700 (PDT), Hope <...@gmail.com
On Apr 25, 9:08 pm, Monica <...@gmail.com
This is a generalization, and a good example of how raising an
objection about one issue gets you accused of objecting about
something more sinister. Speaking for myself, I don't care what
Lizzie writes about. It's a free country, and she can write about
whatever she wants. I don't have to read it if I don't want to, and I
don't believe that choice is a criminal offense any more than reading
it is.
My objection is to the double standard applied to alt.native by
someone who has claimed loud and long that Whites have no place on
this forum. Lizzie is "brave" if she speaks her truth, and her words
get posted here with much praise. Other Whites, however, are scorned
for their interest in Indian issues and criticized for speaking
*their* truth. They are told that Whites have no right to speak for
Indians and that they are not needed for that. They get called whores
and bitches. Huh? How can these opposite extremes be true at the same
time?
I think there should be one standard for all. People learning about
others and speaking their own truths should not depend upon whether or
not someone else approves of that truth or dislikes certain
individuals. The assertion that it is all about race rings hollow
when it is only applied to people who have the "wrong" opinions. And
this happens to both Caucasians and Indians here.
Everyone has a right to speak their truth and to agree or disagree
with others. And no one has a right to suppress that in an
unmoderated public forum. That is *my* truth. And just like Lizzie,
I "don't give a shit" if some people decide I am "unworthy" of their
approval.
The simple fact is, no one can stop anyone from posting here or having
an opinion about what is posted. I don't see why this needs to
continue to be an issue.
|
|
 |
|
 |
 |
|
 |
|
On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 09:14:10 -0700 (PDT), Hope <...@gmail.com
On Apr 25, 10:37 pm, Hope <...@gmail.com
Okay, that's not entirely honest. I do give a shit. I would really
like to be accepted for who I am, and rejection can really bother me.
But if I have to choose between acceptance and speaking my truth, then
I have to choose my truth. If you're pretending to be something you
are not, then the person is not liking YOU anyway, just the costume.
Glad I cleared that up, just in case someone other than my dogs
cared. *LOL*
|
|
 |
|
 |
 |
|
 |
|
On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 09:27:46 -0700 (PDT), oldwifetale <...@yahoo.com
She wasn't "attacked" - she never even posted here!
"There wasn’t one white person who liked me writing about this on
alt.native. The Indians were divided. The FBI groupies don’t like
it..." - Elizabeth Tool
My objection is to this woman's comments are pretty basic. I already
know there's a double standard going on here, but what really gets me
is that almost every single blog post involved derogatory statements
about alt.native. She even goes into a lengthy spiel about alt.native
in a blog on 'racism'. We posting here know that there are only two
people who go by 'white' under our own declaration, and that's you and
me. So when this Lizzy Tool goes off making statements about "white
people on alt.native" she is speaking about us specifically. Have you
objected to aspects of the Anna Mae murder being discussed here? No.
Have i? No. What we objected to, in Lizzy Tool's case, was the
hypocrisy of having a 'white woman's' opinions posted here by the same
person who told us that Indian affairs were none of our business
because we're 'White' (and therefore bitches, whores, etc.).
She has also taken the liberty of speaking about others here
specifically. I do not appreciate being called a 'racist' on some
random site on the internet by someone i have never met, emailed or
spoken to. I do not appreciate having words put in my mouth, my
feelings and perspectives labeled or any of the other things this
woman has taken it upon herself to do - in regard to people who post
on this ng. I don't appreciate that she goes about making commentary
about people in a 'discussion' group and yet is too cowardly to
'discuss' her own comments with those same people. And as a regular
poster on this ng for a decade, i don't appreciate her comments about
alt.native as a group: Here are a few things she's said that weren't
posted here:
"The last thing some people from alt.native claimed is that white
people are not racist against Indians! [Hope, did you or i or anyone
here ever say that?] And went so far as to say that I was practicing
reverse racism because I do not capitalize white….That is when I knew
I had to ban myself from alt.native.
"Best decision toxicity was rubbing off on me and I had to step back
and realize how harmful it was…I also found it quite astonishing that
one could learn the interconnectedness of all things through the
toxicity of a discussion group like alt.native it truly is an accurate
description of world wide web…the hatred and the toxic behavior
spreads even faster across the country and around the world… It was an
emotional set back for me but as one of my friends pointed out it is a
lesson that every single blogger and commenter experiences and either
learns from or succumbs to. It is addicting behavior to spread anger
and reading alt.native taught me a valuable lesson for which I give
many thanks....
"...The best thing is that since I am no longer reading alt.native my
posts will not have any responses to things said about me there. This
will no longer confuse the people reading my posts!..."
Ahem, well we know that part didn't last, since here we are again
being 'mentioned' in her latest blog.
The statement that she doesn't post here because she's not Indian is
BS. 'White' people have been posting here along with Indian people
since the origin of alt.native.
Like you, i really don't care what people write about, pro-this, anti-
that. But if she's going to make disparaging comments about alt.native
and people who post here, she should get her own SET OF BALLS and say
it to our faces.
|
|
 |
|
 |
 |
|
 |
|
On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 16:01:55 -0700 (PDT), Hope <...@gmail.com
On Apr 26, 11:27 am, oldwifetale <...@yahoo.com
Well, one of the great things about blogging is that it is your own
completely controlled little world. You can say whatever you want
about any topic you choose, spin things however you like, and
completely censor what can be said in response. You can paint
yourself (and everyone else) in whatever shade you feel is most
flattering or "uglifying" and no one can do diddly squat about it.
You get to be the hero of your own story, and you have proof that what
you think and do REALLY MATTERS--because look how many people are
reading it! You can claim that droves of people write to support you
or protest in alarm at your influence. Who can say otherwise?
Politicians can only dream of having a medium that is so perfectly
self-promoting. Personally, I prefer the more honest and less
contrived medium of public forums. But that's me.
You know, people see themselves in different ways. Some see
themselves as traditionalists or conservatives, some as pacifists,
some as movers and shakers, some as simply family folk. And some see
themselves as radicals, or as a "rebel with a cause." People invest a
lot of their self-esteem in those role. Some of the "rebels,"
unfortunately, think they need "enemies" to validate how successful
they are. The more enemies they have, the more important they are.
Some will narrow their definition of "enemy" to ridiculous dimensions
in order to convince themselves they are a success.
For example, some will even say, "Well, if you don't think this issue
is important enough to live, eat, and breathe it 24/7, then OBVIOUSLY
you don't REALLY care AT ALL. So you must be my enemy." Some will be
quick to label anyone who disagrees with them or questions them as
enemies. Some will just decide anyone who is different from them in
any easily-identifiable way is the enemy. Anything to get their
quota, whatever they have decided that is. The thing is, the fact
that someone decides they need more enemies doesn't compel me to
serve. That is not a label I slap on people easily.
Most enemy collectors feel if *those people* object to the tactics
used to stir up a drama, it is because they are sinister somehow.
OBVIOUSLY they would not object unless they had some evil hidden
agenda. When *those people* criticize, it is "toxic." Why, just the
act of reading their opinions could make one positively ill! But when
the rebel flays people, no matter how personal and ugly the attack, it
is merely a righteous search for "the" truth. And what sane and
saintly person would object to that??
It takes all kinds, I guess. As far as this Lizzie person goes, she
can do what she likes. She simply does not matter to me or to anyone
I deal with in my real life. And nothing she says on her blog is
going to change the opinion of me that is held by any of the people I
deal with online either. We form our opinions by actually interacting
with one another and *exchanging* ideas. If she feels like she needs
to blog in slanted fashion about us to her fans in spite of the fact
that she has never interacted with us, then I guess we should feel
flattered. It must mean we are important. *LOL*
If someone wants to troll for enemies by dragging her comments about
alt.native posters over here to stir up shit, then I will respond if I
feel like it. But I probably will simply ignore any further bait. I
really have no respect for this kind of back-door tactics. "Oh, I
can't post there because I have too much respect for the site...but
someone else can do it for me, and then I will post the reactions on
my blog (after tweaking them for dramatic effect) and rip the posters
up where no one can confront me about it."
Whatever. IMO, life has plenty of drama without manufacturing more.
I really don't need to expend any more time or energy on this...unless
I'm in really bad need of an excuse to postpone doing laundry or
something. ;-p
|
|
 |
|
 |
 |
|
 |
|
On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 17:05:45 -0700 (PDT), Monica <...@gmail.com
On Apr 26, 4:01 pm, Hope <...@gmail.com
Lizzie sure gets you white women in an uproar. That's funny. She
decided not to even look at alt.native anymore because it's too toxic.
A Native friend says the same. She calls this place The Bar. John
Graham's people thank me for putting up with all the shit to get
information out. Fights go both ways. Thanks for the dimestore psych
eval. It made me laugh.
I really don't post her blog to upset you and donna. I am amazed at
what she sees and says. Most Indians are afraid to get involved in the
Anna Mae issue. Look at the lies two elves and paulprice tell about me
in an effort to silence me. And you buy their shit.
We have 16 days until the start of the trial. The fbi is trying to
rewrite our history to coverup the atrocities they committed during
the 70s. I believe that they murdered Anna Mae Aquash because of her
work on uranium mining on reservations.
The feds are charging Dick Marshall with supplying the murder weapon.
They claim that it was confiscated from him during an arrest. It was
in custody as evidence at the alleged time of Anna Mae's murder.
That's why I call it a magic gun. How did it get out of the evidence
room. Arlo claimed they buried it. Who found it and how did they get
it back to the evidence room.
Likewise the fbi should be charged with supplying murder weapons to
the goons. Lizzy got all that. Are you and donna throwing tantrums so
that you don't have to see the truth?
|
|
 |
|
 |
 |
|
 |
|
Anonymous Wrote:
On Apr 26, 5:05 pm, Monica <...@gmail.com
it is the hypocrisy.
neither hope nor donna have said anything about wanting the truth
hidden, nor have they tried to sabotage any findings on anna mae.
they don't have that power, anyway.
they do, however, have the right to say what they think, even if you
do not agree with it.
and they should have that right without being called bitches and
whores.
no one is tired of your causes, they are tired of the nastiness that
they seem to bring out.
a woman who proclaims to be in favor of equal rights and justice has
no place calling other women such names.
white women, incidently, have fought just as hard to obtain civil
rights, voting rights, rights to property, education and jobs, as
natives have.
what makes ME crazy, is you are copying and pasting a copy and paste.
it's from hendricks to lizzy to you to alt.native.
good god!!!
lizzy is not the only one who "gets" it.
but it seems lizzy is the only white who is allowed to comment on it?
look, there are always three sides to any truth,
there is those on one side, those on the other side.
than, there is the truth itself, and that seldom matches either of the
other two sides.
there are few people who really know the truth, and one of those can
no longer speak.
the others won't.
|
|
 |
|
 |
 |
|
 |
|
On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 17:43:13 -0700 (PDT), Monica <...@gmail.com
Are you telling me to stop posting about Anna Mae?
|
|
 |
|
 |
 |
|
 |
|
Anonymous Wrote:
On Apr 26, 5:43 pm, Monica <...@gmail.com
post all you please, on anything that pleases you.
definitely post on anna mae.
it cleanses the conscience.
doesn't it?
but, you have no right to castigate this or that white woman then drag
in copied and pasted copied and pasted copy and paste from another
white women who has just "discovered" the saga of anna mae.
you disrespect yourself, and you certainly disrespect anna mae.
you have all the right in the world to drag in somebody else's work
copy and pasted from someone else's work if that is the best you can
do.
i happen to know better than that, i have seen what marvelous work
you can do when you are not sucking on lizzy's ass or calling other
white people nasty names.
or making endless insulting threads to richard.it makes us all feel
sorry for him, god forbid!
i am NOT in good mood, but if you really want to fight with me, right
now, i will.
my back hurts, my hemorhoids are killing me, i am constipated, i have
a nasty migraine, i can't move my neck, i twisted the ankle that is
supposedly unable to be twisted due to having metal all through it,
and worse of all, i lost some plants because i had not been able to
get out and water them, and i need to let it out somewhere.
are you sure you want to go there?
now, let's hear some more of that wonderful stuff you CAN do.
|
|
 |
|
 |
 |
|
 |
|
On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 19:39:29 -0700 (PDT), Hope <...@gmail.com
On Apr 26, 7:05 pm, Monica <...@gmail.com
Why are we not surprised that you are getting such a kick out of it
and rubbing your little hands together in glee? Don't overestimate
the effect of you and Lizzie's tag team act though. I save my uproars
for really important issues. You two don't qualify for more than
mediocre irritation and some gratuitous eye rolling and tongue
clicking.
Yes, and of course YOU do not contribute to the toxicity at all. You
never call anyone nasty names or say anything leading to stir shit
up. It's all the white folks' fault, and they just be blaming you.
You never did nuffin'. Right? And it's not toxic when Lizzie slams
people on her blog that she won't condescend to interact with. That's
different. Do you really not see the double standards you bludgeon
people with, or do you know you do it and just don't care?
Yeah, and thanks for that sincere act about how you really did want to
talk about this issue when you felt better instead of fight. That
made me laugh, too.
Please post the evidence that I am "buying their shit." Post a single
thread where I agreed with something they said about the trial. Go
see what you can find and run back here and post it ASAP. I really
want to see what you are basing this conclusion on.
Good for her! Maybe I did too. But I decided not to voice an
opinion, since you told me early on to keep my white nose out of this
Indian issue. Should we say that only your "white lapdog" is allowed
special privileges? That's the kind of thing you say when someone
takes a view other than yours.
Are you making up stuff about us so you don't have to? When you call
people ugly names, are you throwing a tantrum and just trying to get
attention and distract everyone from other subjects? Yes or no? If
you want to claim you aren't, then don't throw that kind of shit at
anyone who dares to disagree with you or objects to being lied about.
Why are you even messing with two unimportant white women 16 days
before the trial? For heaven's sake, don't you have more important
things to do, and more worthy places to be putting your time and
energy? Why do you need to start a serious thread about abuse
children by saying, "I know white people don't like..." And then you
giggle and jump up and down when we dare to defend ourselves against
things we did NOT say. Don't throw the red flag down and then act
like you don't know where it came from. At least be honest about what
you are doing and why...if you can.
|
|
 |
|
 |
 |
|
 |
|
On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 23:04:11 -0700 (PDT), Monica <...@gmail.com
On Apr 26, 7:39 pm, Hope <...@gmail.com
Like I said .......sanctimonious. You are one phoney white woman. You
can't face that maybe there is something in YOU that I don't like.
|
|
 |
|
 |
 |
|
 |
|
On Mon, 27 Apr 2009 09:56:01 -0700 (PDT), Hope <...@gmail.com
On Apr 27, 1:04 am, Monica <...@gmail.com
You don't like any White woman who won't "keep her place." You want
to make the rules for us, tell us where we can and can't stay, have us
speak only when spoken to, and treat your every word and opinion as if
it were right from the mouth of the gods. Like I said...a colonizer
attitude. You are one phoney Indian woman. You're an apple. You
just package a White attitude in a red skin.
|
|
 |
|
 |
 |
|
 |
|
On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 07:46:35 -0700 (PDT), PEP010 <...@gmail.com
On Apr 27, 11:56 am, Hope <...@gmail.com
Monica just wants attention for HERSELF, and she just wants to vent
herself by striking out at other people. She just uses all of us as
her personal punching bag. She also gets jealous when she sees other
people interacting in a positive way and forming friendships, and sets
out to wreck that.
She's best ignored as much as possible. And yes, she's the ultimate
colonizer. Heck, even if anyone else did want to talk about the trial,
she'd only attack them unless they did nothing but fawn on her. She's
just using Anna Mae for her own ego--and, I suspect, guilt.
Ever notice she won't answer direct questions about what she was doing
and saying when people put an FBI jacket on Anne Mae? Did she
contribute to the rumors or stand up for Anna Mae THEN?
That's what her tantrums are really about, I think. Guilt. And a lot
of other negative stuff that she wants to hand off to others. "If I
can't feel good, ain't nobody gonna feel good" type of thing.
LL
|
|
 |
|
 |
 |
|
 |
|
On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 09:47:38 -0700, "~Anishinabe~" <...@shaw.ca
"PEP010" <...@s38g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
On Apr 27, 11:56 am, Hope <...@gmail.com
Monica just wants attention for HERSELF, and she just wants to vent
herself by striking out at other people. She just uses all of us as
her personal punching bag. She also gets jealous when she sees other
people interacting in a positive way and forming friendships, and sets
out to wreck that.
She's best ignored as much as possible. And yes, she's the ultimate
colonizer. Heck, even if anyone else did want to talk about the trial,
she'd only attack them unless they did nothing but fawn on her. She's
just using Anna Mae for her own ego--and, I suspect, guilt.
Ever notice she won't answer direct questions about what she was doing
and saying when people put an FBI jacket on Anne Mae? Did she
contribute to the rumors or stand up for Anna Mae THEN?
That's what her tantrums are really about, I think. Guilt. And a lot
of other negative stuff that she wants to hand off to others. "If I
can't feel good, ain't nobody gonna feel good" type of thing.
LL
^^^
I for another..agree with your words LL..and in that respect..I'm also going
to have to give the ole boot to Mr.Red Clown..and who ever *i* deem to be of
the same ilk.
Good day for gardening nd such up thisa ways.
wayne george
^^^^^^^
|
|
 |
|
 |
 |
|
 |
|
On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 09:53:52 -0700 (PDT), Hope <...@gmail.com
On Apr 26, 7:05 pm, Monica <...@gmail.com
Yes, the best humor is based on truth. And my psych minor, which was
a byproduct of my advanced certification in teaching the visually
impaired, cost a lot more than a dime, TYVM! *lol* Though it's good
to get a little bang for my buck sometimes, spotting this stuff really
doesn't take any formal training. Pretty much every functional adult
is aware of the psychological tools we use to justify and rationalize
our lives. People could take from my comments what they related to,
or ignore it. I notice you are the only one who felt compelled to
comment on it. :-p
I'm still looking forward to seeing your evidence that I am in flint
and paul's "pack," by the way (and I guess that would put me in the
FBI camp, since you say they work for the feds.) I know you wouldn't
accuse me or anyone else of such a serious thing without proof,
considering the consequences that can result from such jacketing. You
know about that first-hand.
|
|
 |
|
 |
|
|