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Democrats, Republicans, and America
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On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 00:33:07 -0800 (PST), Ilya Shambat <...@gmail.com
The Republican propaganda has had much effect in reaching people both
inside America and without. Coming from Russian immigrants who settled
in Northern Virginia, I saw the effects of this propaganda on both
demographics. I am writing this to correct two commonly-held errors
that resulted from this propaganda. One is that of comparing Democrats
to the Communist Party of Soviet Union (CPSU). The other is that of
equating Republican Party with America and giving it credit for
America and its achievements.
On the first I ask this: What labor camps have Democrats built? How
many millions have they imprisoned and murdered for their political
convictions? What countries have Democrats invaded and made their
satellites by force? All evidence points instead to CPSU-type activity
by Bush Republicans, who have used fraud and corruption to get into
the White House; murdered over a million civilians in Iraq; instituted
torture, even of teenagers; lied to Americans and to the rest of the
world; and have consistently used bullying and deception to push their
party line against public opinion while claiming that they are America
and that the rest of America is not America, when they in fact not
only not America but a minority of America and not its better part
either.
Another error is that of equating Republicans with America and giving
Republicans the credit for all of America's accomplishments. It is
largely for the sake of transparency that this claim put to rest. Here
are the facts:
- The Democratic administrations of Woodrow Wilson and Franklin
Roosevelt won, respectively, the First and the Second World War;
- The Democrats form the vast bulk of America's scientists and
innovators, with over 90% of its Nobel Prize winners being Democrats
and only 3% of academics being Republicans;
- Of America's 10 foremost educational institutions, 9 are in solidly
Democratic states and are centers of Democratic Party's activities;
- The computer industry, which has been the main engine of prosperity
of 1980s and 1990s, is largely Democratic. The personal computer was
invented by a hippie. The computer industry is located in solidly
Democratic San Francisco Bay Area and Washington State, as well as in
the Democratic-voting Northern Virginia. The Democrats make up the
bulk of both its management and its rank-and-file.
- The Clinton Administration gave America its greatest peacetime
economic expansion (the greatest wartime one having been under
Franklin Delano Roosevelt). Its policies created 23 million jobs, the
first balanced budget in three decades, international peace and
prosperity, and a revamping of the government to become efficient and
user friendly (Reagan only whined about the government while being its
head). It also brought about a significant reduction in violent crime
- which grew under Reagan and peaked under Bush Sr. Meanwhile the Bush
Jr. administration added $5 trillion to the debt, with no jobs
created, amid collapsing family incomes, and at the end the worst
economic crisis America has had since the Great Depression.
- Democrats form the bulk of America's teachers and journalists, whose
contributions are not easily measured monetarily but are of greater
significance than those of many far higher-paid professionals.
- Democrats have fought for civil rights, human rights, and women's
rights, while Republicans have done all they could to sabotage all of
the above.
- Democrats have fought to bring to public attention the facts about
global warming. Republicans have done nothing but aggressively deny
reality - on this, as much as on federal debt.
The people who blame all things on "liberal government" or "big
government" or compare American government to the Soviet Union know
nothing of what they're talking about. Without the government
Interstate, the anti-government truckers would not have the roads on
which to deliver the farming goods, created by government-subsidized
anti-government farmers, to the big liberal cities that are the market
for their products. Without the government academia, the academic
research that has been necessary for the hardware and technology that
are at the core of business production would not have taken place.
Without the government Internet, the computerization and Internet
commerce that was the source of 1990s growth would not have been
possible. Whining about taxes was a big trend under the Clinton
administration. Being in the high-income bracket, I had a lot of taxes
to whine about. I did not whine about my taxes, because I knew where
the money was going and saw it as my civic duty to pay it. Under Bush
I would have had less taxes to whine about; but there was a problem.
Like many others, under Bush, I no longer was in the high-income
bracket - or, for some of that time, in any bracket at all.
But beyond personal experience, let us look at the big issues. Who has
given America a $10 trillion debt? Who has aggressively for three
decades denied global warming? Who has done this to the country they
claim to love, and to the children and grandchildren for whose sake
they claim to practice "family values?" It wasn't the Democrats. It is
the Republicans who have done this to America and to their children's
and grandchildren's future.
So to put it shortly: Democrats are not Communists; Republicans are
not America, nor do they deserve credit for America. Case closed.
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On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 01:50:08 -0800 (PST), tooly <...@bellsouth.net
It's pretty simple really.
Republicans are the party of TRADITIONAL America that represents it's
constitution and founders. They are the party of the established.
Their role is essentially defensive, trying to save the republic from
a continuous onslaught of 'foreign values' that seek to destroy.
Democrats have become the party of the disestablished, that HATES
Traditional America, who wants to tear it down and remake it.
You can't really compare past democrats and republicans conveniently.
I made the 'good' argument recently for instance, that John Kennedy
would be a Republican today since he stood for cutting taxes, fighting
communism, and going after big labor [the exact opposite of Obama]...
Republican's represent the creators of this land, a direct lineage and
thought process to the founding fathers and their values. Democrats
have become the marxist party under Obama. Listen to Reverand
Wright's sermons if you want to know how liberal democrats see America
today. "Not God Bless America...but God Damn America, God Damn
America".
It's a seed they've planted here now; the results of a slippery
progressive slope that began several decades ago...that could very
well sprout into something similar as the old USSR in time [probably
not so much the heavy hand [that we can see yet], but as imprisoning
under socialism]. Already they are devising schemes to shut down free
speech in the media for instance [see Mark Lloyd and Robert
McChesney]. Obama would give away national sovergnty to the
socialistist UN (at Copenhagen) if he could get away with it.
No, I'm afraid the Democrats have now become the enemy of the
Republic. But you won't hear the truth much, since the media,
education, and other means of information [can you say 'net
nuetrality'] are all in bed together [in my assessment, as part of the
new marxist strategem that called for a 'Grand March Through The
Institutions'].
Americans...real patriotic Americans...should take the time and get
informed. Presently, there are only two outlets conveying
TRUTH...talk radio and FOX channel. Especially Glen Beck. That guy
continues to amaze me. I fear for his life you know. "Never has a
single man, done so much, for so many". But...is it enough? People
are still oblivious to what is going to be happening to the dollar and
our way of life here. Disaster is on the horizon and people are
cheering one quarter of GDP growth, ha. In the meantime, China and
now India are buying up gold.
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On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 08:01:37 -0800 (PST), Robert <...@msn.com
Excellent response by rd.
I would add only this:
Democrats have changed from the party of John F Kennedy.
But Republicans have also changed from the days of Ronald Reagan.
The new radicalization is between socialist/statists who worship big
government,
and libertarian/conservatives who value individual freedom.
How that will shake out remains to be seen.
We are in for tumultuous times the like of which will make the 1960s
seem
like an era of domestic tranquility by comparison.
A Canadian friend recently lamented to me that his countrymen made the
mistake of trading in their freedom for free things.
Progressives in this country (the US) think that's a good trade.
=================
On Nov 4, 4:50 am, tooly <...@bellsouth.net> Traditional America, who wants to tear it down and remake it.
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On 4 Nov 2009 16:03:58 GMT, slunky <...@cryptobug.com
Hammertime!
--
-slunky
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On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 10:59:34 -0800 (PST), "\"jordy\"" <...@gmail.com
On Nov 4, 4:50 am, tooly <...@bellsouth.net
please tell us that this is a joke, that you don't believe a word
of this... unfortunatly, whether you believe it or not, there are
plenty of people who DO believe this nonsense... God help us all...
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On Thu, 5 Nov 2009 03:41:46 -0800 (PST), 1Z <...@yahoo.com
On 4 Nov, 09:50, tooly <...@bellsouth.net
Yep. Ilya argued his point persuasively, appealing to many facts.
You just stated opinions.
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On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 16:58:20 -0800 (PST), Dänk 1010011010 <...@rocketmail.com
On Nov 4, 1:33 am, Ilya Shambat <...@gmail.com
While I do compare Democrats with Communists, I equate Republicans
with Nazis rather than with America.
Democrats are as communist as the Chinese Communist Party, which
permits just enough capitalist activity needed to finance its
totalitarianism. Democrats are as 'democratic' as the Democratic
People's Republic of Korea, in which the concept of 'democracy' has
been perverted to mean totalitarian rule in the name of the people.
Of course, the opposite of communist totalitarianism is not
necessarily freedom, but just another form of totalitarianism -
fascism in the case of Republicans. The comparisons to 20th-century
totalitarians are not perfect, and each American political party has
some unique features that differentiate them somewhat from the
traditional definitions of communism and fascism. Their goals are the
same, though, absolute power and total control over the people.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
"The German Nazis and the Russian Communists came very close to us in
their methods, but they never had the courage to recognize their own
motives. They pretended, perhaps they even believed, that they had
seized power unwillingly and for a limited time, and that just round
the corner there lay a paradise where human beings would be free and
equal. We are not like that. We know that no one ever seizes power
with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means, it is
an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a
revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the
dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object
of torture is torture. The object of power is power."
-- 1984
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On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 15:24:15 +0000, ZerkonXXXX <...@erkonx.net
The propaganda is difference.
Everything Bush did he could not have done without the willing Democrats.
Remove 'socialist' and insert "political collective".
When you speak of Democrats and Republicans, think two central committees
not citizen voters.
Surplus? Clinton 'gave' nothing. The American people 'gave' Clinton.
Peacetime? In the same hour Clinton preached 'talking out problems' to
the students of Columbine, he was bombing two countries killing hundreds
after bombing a pharmaceutical plant causing the deaths of many hundreds
by the ensuing lack of needed medicines.
Economic expansion? Repeal of Glass-Steagall, hello "World Debt Crisis"
"The computer industry" is the result of geeks on caffeine who barely
knew what a woman was much less a Democrat.
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