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Anti Subgenius Lies - Must Delete

On Fri, 22 May 2009 18:36:00 GMT, pm <...@pm.pm

This is total fucking Bullshit!:

Why I have a Problem With the
Church of the SubGenius

The following is an abbreviated list of my main "issues" with people the
Church, addressed in the second person:

You claim to mock elitism, while representing a clique based on
intellectual superiority, paradigm dominance, and spiteful stereotypes of
a number of groups in our society. The justification for this is that
your club "could, and should," include just about everyone; it's only a
few sad cases that could never make it to your level of realness.
Apparently, some people are just too dense to realize that fascist
materialism is the definitive religion of the next millennium.

You assume that cleverness is an indicator of understanding. You believe
that there are two extremes for how people go about life: one can be
smug, clever, and strong, or alienated by a pathetic insistence on
pursuing "insignificant" questions.

You follow an actual pseudo-religion based on finding targets for mockery
in any non-materialistic paradigms. You run these attributes through your
propaganda machine, and the end result is a brilliant job of spin-
doctoring designed to give people simplistic, pigeonholing beliefs about
everyone who doesn't follow your own brand of Western Materialism. This
ongoing cultural narrative presents the selected attributes as a single
stereotype, disregarding any diversity in the belief systems you attack.
Most of you are smart enough to know that all of this is happening, but
you're also self-deceptive enough to think that all of this doesn't taint
the ideal of honesty guiding your culture.

You mock cultish societies and beliefs, yet you:

* ..Immerse yourselves in an environment of people who constantly
affirm each other's acceptance of the Church dogma;

* ..Orient all of your thoughts about certain subjects toward
bolstering basic tenets. You seem to believe that you've come upon this
"truth" collectively, when the fact of the matter is that the basic
opinions are handed down a pyramid by people who claim to know what "We"
all think. You might consider reexamining the word "They."

* ..Mock others' lack of objectivity, but assume that you've hit upon
a multitude of Ultimate Truths about everything from society and
political ideals to the nature of reality. Your culture's emphasis on not
questioning these meta-narratives is largely justified by the belief that
you "don't follow any religion." Oh no, you just agree on certain non-
Truths that would be obvious to anyone with a normally functioning brain.
It probably wouldn't do any good for me to point out that enough non-
truths about religious subjects form a solid, almost fundamentalist
foundation for how you view human existence.

You consider yourselves so "real.." yet, despite pretensions of
confidence that you're strong and reasonable, you have to continually
affirm the idea of your worth and righteousness. You do this with an
endless stream of spiteful talk about people who you regard as inferior
to yourselves at an almost inherent level. (sound familiar?) In other
words: if you're so sure of yourselves, why can't you seem to shut up
about it for a day or two? "Bob" forbid you should stray from your
internal censors without the affirmation of your peers...

You have certain implicit beliefs which you think represent some kind of
innate human wisdom; for example, "if it we feel good enough about it,
there must be something real going on," or "if enough of us all agree on
something at the same time, the truth of that idea is confirmed." My own
take on this is that you're pursuing an almost religious mission of
perpetuating attitudes which have historically subverted objective
thinking in society.

Among other people, you mock those who are openly passionate about their
ideas (as opposed to your own tendency to conceal opinions in convoluted
masses of self-affirming, propagandistic dialogue). You seem especially
bent on making parodies of those who oppose the suppression of social
knowledge--by institution , or simply by convention. Maybe you do this
because your own culture emulates many of the patterns through which
institutions, or society, can work to subvert objective thinking. The
Church teaches people that it's OK to bask in the feel of a "power in
numbers" bully complex--that Unity excuses subordination. I tell ya, you
people have really got the human spirit all figured out.

You frown upon taking an individualistic sense of passion and inspiration
about developing one's understanding. Instead, you emphasize an almost
fascist mind-set toward forming one's beliefs and attitudes. You attach
mottos such as "No Doubt" or "Question Questioning" to what's basically
in-group conformity. Dogma by any other name...

Your culture's unity relies heavily on antagonism toward a host of
designated "enemies." The only real difference from other warmongering is
that everything is worded as an endless joke. Malicious, sardonic wit
always helps out when you feel a bout of doubt. Still, you do have an
underlying sense of seriousness, and a clarity of purpose, which I sort
of respect... despite the slight odor of zombie-like zealousness.
Contrary to popular belief, the best kind of Zombie is the kind that
really knows how to laugh--especially when they find themselves taking an
"incorrect" thought too seriously.

You set up your dialogue--internal as well as external--such that ideals
of true objective thought are always cast in opposition to your lauded
"real" values. Objectivity about your own dogma is depicted as the enemy
of every vague but stirring ideal from "knowing what's really what" to
"being there for each other." For some reason, I don't always see the
connection; it must be because I lack the intelligence to realize how
utopia can only be realized through homogenous viewpoints and immutable
explanations.

You claim that "scientific logic" forms the basis for every unequivocal
statement you adhere to; you don't seem to notice that also thrown in the
pot is a medley of presumptuous inferences, sweeping generalizations, and
many dubiously unsupported assertions. Your faith in the righteousness of
this "logic" is closer to that of a religious zealot, who eats up any
"facts" that his supposedly omniscient god throws out, than that of a
true scientist.

...Of course, that's not to say that you're wrong about everything. To
assume that you're "not wrong" about everything, however, doesn't quite
seem to capture the essence of scientific thinking.

You work to continually downplay the impact of the beliefs which really
make up your cultural paradigm. The constant barrage of attacks on
"subgenii" obscures the ways that your leading figures have laid out a
whole world view. The technique is simple: tell people you're not asking
them to believe anything, but give them so many things not to believe
that you establish a whole paradigm without ever saying any of it
directly. The "subgenius foundation" has created a veritable religion, by
leading people to put their faith in "non-beliefs" about politics,
biology, the human spirit, trans-material realities, and "non-ideals" for
social interaction, personal ethics, and so on.

(Along the same lines..) You use the most extreme examples of non-
materialistic philosophies, and refer to the most outrageous kinds of
people from the mystically inclined segment of society. The fallacy here
is that you connect these laughable images to everyone who falls under
the non-materialist umbrella. Considering the diversity of beliefs among
all those people, it seems that your propaganda's stereotyping is
deceptive--a Beavis and Butthead dialogue justified by your dire mission
of "spreading skepticism." It's a good thing all you brilliant skeptics
don't turn your scrutiny back on your own assumptions; you might actually
doubt something.

Granted, there are a slew of flaky New Agers and UFO cultists out there,
but a person doesn't fall into this category simply by virtue of living
in a Western country and not accepting all the Materialistic notions that
society expects people to follow. Sorry, guys; I know you have a lot
invested in this stereotype, but things just aren't that simple.

Many people under the umbrella of non-materialism have gotten where they
are largely because they are skeptical. They don't buy into all the dogma
of their self-stereotyping cohorts, but neither do they accept the most
widely upheld perspectives on trans-material: that it is either a
pathetic fantasy, or a mysterious reality that we have to die to
understand. They aren't trying to be an alienated minority, unlike those
who take pride in an elitist or martyred separation from most of society.

Thanks to the diligent efforts of people like yourselves, however, it is
becoming impossible to be a non-materialist and have most other people
respect this. A large part of your mission, as I'm sure you know, is not
only to point out the alienation of certain groups, but to actually
engineer it. You might tell yourselves that you're just helping along a
natural process of "natural selection" in our society, but it's more like
Manifest Destiny.

Rampant stereotyping of non-materialists ensures that an increasing
number of people are so biased to begin with that any sign that a person
has non-materialistic beliefs will set off a buzzer in people's heads;
some stereotype activates itself, and the person knows they're dealing
with another "flower child" or "dangerous crackpot." Through such
machinations, groups like the Church protect the integrity of "Normalcy"
in our society, while working to suppress any social openness to
alternatives. And all in the name of getting people to see things
clearly...

You define your social attitudes as the antithesis of the "hive
consciousness" which you attribute to "subgenii," as if all it takes is
caring about your friends, having a sense of humor, and having lots of
fun. All these things are great (hey, I actually like 'em too), but there
is a little more to it than that. Dogmatism takes root in associations
that we form in the background, while we're doing other things. You can
be a drone in a group mind at some level, while also being a happy,
creative individual; it's a little trick called compartmentalizing.

It seems that a lot of people in the Church believe that they can't take
the best aspects of their culture--the part that encourages imagination,
caring, and having fun--without also accepting a slew of other beliefs
and values. The truth is that most of the time the other stuff is only
related to those core values by association; you don't need one to have
the other. To throw the Church's proclamation back in its own members'
faces: "Wake up; you could find joy and fulfillment without your
religion."

My biggest problem with the Church of the SubGenius is probably the way
it does things that have historically worked against a society achieving
freedom, awareness, and genuine peace, while convincing people that it's
the ultimate champion of those qualities.

Basically, you're incredible hypocrites, and most of you never stop
condemning others' hypocrisy long enough to catch the irony. The Church
of the SubGenius may be the pinnacle, to date, of a social mentality
which directly subverts the ideals which humanity's wisest thinkers and
mystics have explained.

As to why I even insist on making these observations... I guess I just
figure that someone has to. A total lack of critical discourse can be a
dangerous thing. (if you disagree, I could mention all the historical
examples that illustrate this point.) I'd rather that a lot of people
were doing this with me--discourse was meant to be social--but that
doesn't seem to be the way the deck's stacked, so here I am...

It gets back to a certain basic division: I believe that people should be
able to form their beliefs themselves, and the Church believes that
people can be happy and creative and open-minded, but should also conform
to a basic foundation that it determines. Think about all the times in
human history when similar war-lines were drawn; which side do you root
for?



On Fri, 22 May 2009 15:03:30 -0400, "S.O.D.D.I." <...@jumbo.com

That's because The Church of the SubGenius is such serious stuff.

Pink boy.


On Fri, 22 May 2009 12:09:17 -0700 (PDT), CHUCKkey <...@hotmail.com

On May 22, 2:36 pm, pm <...@pm.pm

I agree with this first sentence of your post.

On Fri, 22 May 2009 12:33:37 -0700 (PDT), "The Right Rev. El Bonobo Bandito" <...@hotmail.com

On May 22, 11:36 am, pm <...@pm.pm
You know, it's not a SIN to masturbate once in a while. Instead of
getting all backed up like this.

Anonymous Wrote:

On May 22, 2:36 pm, pm <...@pm.pm
This is where I stopped reading, because I was laughing too hard.

Did you remember to call us judgmental somewhere in that long essay
about our terrible faults?


On Fri, 22 May 2009 12:34:53 -0700 (PDT), "The Right Rev. El Bonobo Bandito" <...@hotmail.com

Hey....I think this one qualifies as "SubGenius Kook" not just
alt.slack kook.

I now raise my bet to 666 Quatloos on the new comer.

See...all I had to put out there was a DESIRE FOR NEW KOOKERAGE and
they FUCKING DELIVER.

Anonymous Wrote:

On May 22, 2:36 pm, pm <...@pm.pm

Wow! It sounds like your synapses are finally firing with some truly
debate-worthy fodder, right when Rev Dr Ed LoBotomy is back! I believe
there are some lucid points for discussion placed before us here. I
applaud your 180-spin from one-line playground retorts to well-thought-
out particulars. This is something to work with. Now I can sit back
and enjoy the intellectual discourse and stop raving about sex just to
fill the space.

Good, I was getting sore.

Before I nestle in to Bag Balm my coochie and lurk, I must say that I
myself like to stay within a grey area, occupying the same function as
Switzerland or the Red Cross. I prefer to embrace all SubGenii because
we are brothers united in our discontent with the Con and its works,
but mainly because I cannot differentiate between people on an
individual level. In the midst of battle, I triage according to the
depth of the wounding--although in some cases, you'll find me passing
the ammo to the front lines because a balance apparently needs to be
righted.

But perhaps my misty-eyed "SubGenius is one big happy world of Slack-
loving mutants" mindset is a result of my head being squished right up
my happy-happy ass. Maybe I'll just muddy these waters further with my
naive feel-good shit.

But as a sidenote, I must ask, Mike---why this sad antipathy which
must be acted out in driveby postings and belligerent posturings? Our
underlying emotional needs push us to do things before we know what's
going on--and your return suggests a lingering umbilical attachment
that's difficult to deny, like driving past an ex-girlfriend's house
at all hours after the split. (This is not to suggest you should go--
you spice things up.) But a philosophical point to mull: Can one not
schism off as "Bob" intends, to transcend the things we dislike about
the world--even, verily, unto this Church itself? And why, in the
schisming, can you yet not find happiness? Is there a feeling that
something is missing from the version of the SubGenius home game which
you have made for yourself, something that just isn't clicking and is
drawing you back to bosom of the Mother Church for some sort of
validation?

So let's all palaver. Knock yerselves out. I'll be standing by the
sidelines here with bandaids, cast plaster, and a 55-gallon drum of
Bag Balm.

Let the GAMES BEGIN!

Anonymous Wrote:

No... he cut and pasted it from an ancient article on SubSITE by
somebody else.

Not SOMEONE else. SomeBODY else. Aherrrm.

http://www.subgenius.com/bigfist/answers/ARTICLES3/X0016_My_Problems_with_The.h tml

If that link is broken, try this:
http://tinyurl.com/ze5l6o

Here is yet another version:

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/7082/subgenius.html


On Fri, 22 May 2009 12:53:29 -0700 (PDT), "The Right Rev. El Bonobo Bandito" <...@hotmail.com

No wonder I just "skimmed" it.

Now he's a Lazy Plagariz'n SubGenius Kook.

My Wager on the new comer is now 999 Quatloos.

Anonymous Wrote:

Oh, dang it...! You mean I was hoodwinked?

(And hoodwinking isn't as sexy as it sounds.)

Well, never mind.

On Fri, 22 May 2009 13:31:26 -0700 (PDT), Qmech <...@gmail.com

Aw, Suzie! I bet you could make hoodwinking pretty damn sexy!

On Fri, 22 May 2009 12:17:57 -0700 (PDT), Hairy Toilet Pepper <...@yahoo.com

I really need to ask you something...

On Fri, 22 May 2009 12:29:42 -0700 (PDT), TeelaUbiquitous <...@gmail.com

On May 22, 3:17 pm, Hairy Toilet Pepper <...@yahoo.com
Boy there sure are a lot of words.

Anonymous Wrote:

On May 22, 3:29 pm, TeelaUbiquitous <...@gmail.com
I would certainly call it tl;dr.

-RevNickie

On Fri, 22 May 2009 23:21:54 GMT, "Chain Smerker the Liberated" <...@subgenious.com

"pm" <...@pm.pm
HE was just posting something he found, saying it was bullshit then pasted
what he found. No need to jump down the poor mans throat you cruel,
insensitive elitists.


On Fri, 22 May 2009 23:26:03 GMT, "Chain Smerker the Liberated" <...@subgenious.com

"Chain Smerker the Liberated" <...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

Like observe

" This is total fucking Bullshit!:"

Notice the ":" and the statment before the ":" quote "This is total fucking
Bullshit!"

But nooooooooo. You immediatly jump down the poor mans throat when he just
wanted to share something.

Im sickened by your attack on this good man and I ask that you all apologise
to him.


On Fri, 22 May 2009 23:29:15 GMT, "Chain Smerker the Liberated" <...@subgenious.com

And where the hell did HE CLAIM THAT HE WROTE IT. He clearly used the ":"
thingy and CLEARLY LABELED HIS POST AS "THIS IS BULL SHIT"

WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU FUCKING PEOPLE!

CAN'T YOU UNDESTAND SIMPLE FUCKING PUNCTUFUCKINGATION!

MY GOD!

POOR FUCKING PM!

WHAT THE FUCK DID HE DO TO YOU!

HE NEVER CLAIMED HE WROTE THIS.

HE NEVER CLAIMS THAT HE AGREED WITH IT.

HE VERY CLEARLY POSTED SOMETHING HE FOUND FROM SOMEWHERE ELSE AND LABELED IT
AS BULLSHIT

YET YOU ALL HAVE TO SIT ON YOUR FUCKING HIGH HORSE AND ATTACK THE POOR YOUNG
MAN

BASTARDS!


Anonymous Wrote:

On May 22, 7:29 pm, "Chain Smerker the Liberated"
<...@subgenious.com
And just think how he's going to have to be checking his mail for mail
bombs for the rest of his life.

On Fri, 22 May 2009 23:41:08 GMT, pm <...@pm.pm

not if the head is cut off, tough guy. but your threat will be in my
report to the FBI.

On Fri, 22 May 2009 16:49:46 -0700, Zapanaz <http://joecosby.com/code/mail.pl

pm hunched over a computer, typing feverishly;

HE'LL SEE YOU IN COURT! YOU FUCKED WITH THE WRONG MOTHERFUCKER!

--
Zapanaz
International Satanic Conspiracy
Customer Support Specialist
http://joecosby.com/
A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything.
- Nietzsche

:: Currently listening to Love Is Only a Game, 2001, by Vanessa-Mae, from "Subject to Change"

On Sat, 23 May 2009 00:29:40 GMT, pm <...@pm.pm

a litigious jew?

Anonymous Wrote:

On May 22, 7:41 pm, pm <...@pm.pm
I'm making fun of your gullibility and mental illness, dumbass.


On Sat, 23 May 2009 00:46:17 GMT, "Chain Smerker the Liberated" <...@subgenious.com

<...@u8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...

How cruel.


Anonymous Wrote:

On May 22, 8:46 pm, "Chain Smerker the Liberated"
<...@subgenious.com
Well, yeah. Granted.

On Sat, 23 May 2009 01:08:20 -0400, "S.O.D.D.I." <...@jumbo.com

<...@subgenius.com

That constitutes a clear and present threat to most kooks.


Discussion Title: Anti Subgenius Lies - Must Delete
Title Keywords: Anti  Subgenius  Lies  Must  Delete