 |
|
 |
|
On Sun, 01 Mar 2009 21:01:23 +0000, Andrew Hill <...@example.net
I thought having some knowledge of these things I should probably post
this as it's not the first time this question has been asked, and it may
be useful for people to be aware of the proceedings in these
circumstances for their own knowledge or future reference. The below is
not intended in any way to be disrespectful.
It depends upon the local coroner and on what has happened. Where the
cause of death is clear, even if it is a 'coroner case' (ie. the
verifying medic has to inform the coroner of the death), the funeral is
delayed only for one or two days to allow the coroner to perform an
'open and close' inquest - usually an inquest done in paperwork only
performed using the certifying doctor's paperwork and statements to the
coroner's officers, plus any mitigating evidence from families,
witnesses etc. This happens for example in people who die of industrial
diseases (mesothelioma etc) or who die during an operation, for which
the need for the operation and the operative risk was evident prior to
the operation. A post-mortem may or may not be needed in these cases.
For others where the cause of death or its circumstances are not
absolutely clear beyond reasonable doubt, you must bear in mind that the
death remains a police matter, and the body is considered key evidence,
even after post-mortem examination. Therefore any funeral may be delayed
until the body is released to the family, which is usually following the
inquest - the length of time for this being heavily dependent upon the
exact circumstances and evidence that is required.
Where a significant delay can be expected, sometimes a memorial service
is held by the family in the interim, but clearly this cannot be decided
until the coroner is clear upon how long the inquest is likely to be,
which in itself may take some time.
My advice therefore would be to be patient, and to await for any
announcements that Paul's family or close friends provide, as any
service may be very soon, or conversely could be quite a while. I'm sure
that information will be provided in good time if and when they feel it
appropriate given his popularity.
Best wishes,
Drew
|
|
 |
|
 |
|
|
|
|
On Mon, 2 Mar 2009 00:17:05 +0000, Rob Kendrick <...@rjek.com
On Sun, 01 Mar 2009 21:01:23 +0000
Andrew Hill <...@example.net
Indeed; the last I heard it was still undecided if it will be a family
and close friends-only service.
B.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
On Mon, 02 Mar 2009 16:48:31 +0000 (GMT), Brian Carroll <...@argonet.co.uk
In article <...@posted.plusnet Andrew Hill <...@example.net
The Government Department responsible for Coroners' Inquests is
now the Ministry of Justice. There is very complete information
about the situation Paul's family is now in at:
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandrights/Death/WhatToDoAfterADea th/DG_066713 (all one line)
This is amplified in two well-written 8-page documents that are
linked at the foot of the page. They are worth keeping.
Responsibility for Coroners and Inquests was formerly the
responsibility of the Dept Constitutional Affairs. The Coroners
and Justice Bill, apparently much delayed by the change over to
the Ministry of Justice, is now going through Parliament and makes
some major changes to the current archaic Coroners system which
does not always appear to serve modern needs. (I had an opportunity
to suggest changes to the the draft Bill following a complaint via
my MP about bad experiences with an inquest 4 years ago.) For a
summary of the Bill see:
http://www.commonsleader.gov.uk/output/page2655.asp
Usually only the professionals like Drs Drew and Peter ever get
involved in the practicalities, so I suggest anyone who wants to
know more reads these references rather than adding to the
discussion or speculation here. I have passed these and other
references to Paul's close friends and, indirectly, his family.
Brian.
--
______________________________________________________________
Brian Carroll, Ripon, N Yorks, UK briancarroll at f2s dot com
______________________________________________________________
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
On Sun, 01 Mar 2009 21:39:39 +0000 (GMT), John <...@blueyonder.co.uk
In article <...@ukgateway.netCordova <...@ukgateway.net
At the South West Show last weekend, Paul Middleton made an
announcement about Paul's death. He said that he is in
touch with Paul's sister and that he would act as a conduit
between the family and the rest of us. At the time he spoke
he didn't know whether or not the funeral would be private
nor what arrangements there might be for donations. We
shall just have to wait until he lets us all know.
--
John
news...@blueyonder.co.uk
j dot mccartney atte blueyonder dot co dot uk
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
On Mon, 02 Mar 2009 12:37:00 +0000 (GMT), "Bill (Adopt)" <...@billsimpson.com
In article <...@blueyonder.co.uk John <...@blueyonder.co.uk
I wonder if these things are taking a lot longer,
these days than quite some years ago.
Father died suddenly on a Monday, PMs were conducted
both Tuesday and (specialist travelling down from
London) on Wednesday ..the funeral was then held on
the Friday. At the time, with a normal three day
'turnaround' as it were ..we thought the extra couple
of days to be rather excruciatingly 'long'..
When Mother, (decades later and by then a retired
Snr Nursing Officer) passed away ..her remains were
(very respectfully) shuffled off to the morgue at
St Thomas' London ..most of them apart from samples
remaining there for another four or five weeks until
the various bits of paperwork - and overview
investigations at establishments around the area - had
been completed..
As a very elderly lady well into her eighties and given
there were no dubious circumstances - we were a little
concerned by the apparent delay(s) at first - the Coroner
coordinating assured us that her remains were being well
-cared for ..and that any delays were due to the Easter
and May bank holidays leading to delays throughout the
system. Our funeral director concurred..
In the event we decided on a wholly private family
internment with a cremation, (as apparently the vast
majority of us these days), respecting the wishes of
our Mother - followed a couple of months later with a
Service of Thanksgiving held in the by then warmth and
sunlight of happier memories...
The point of my rambling is, in a way, two-fold.
One is that the whole system may be backed up - with
many investigations taking a lot longer than they may
have years ago given the much more advanced forensic
detail that is collated for even the most obvious and
innoccuous circumstance.
The other is that the remains, including now and so
sadly those of Paul, are very respectfully looked
after and always as much as possible in accordance with
the known wishes as expressed by next-of-kin/family.
We neither know the circumstance of Paul's passing nor
what admin delays there are within the system - so all
we can do is patiently wait until (even if) the detail
and wishes are released by Paul's Next of Kin/Family..
In the meantime we just need to remember the support,
the knowledge and that hand of friendship that Paul
so unstintingly offered ..and that we can now offer
each other...
I don't think I have a sad smiley ..but you'll know
what I mean...
:))
Bill ZFC
..with apologies for the ramble..
--
Adoption InterLink UK with -=- http://www.billsimpson.com/
Domain Host Orpheus Internet -=- http://www.orpheusinternet.co.uk/
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
On Mon, 02 Mar 2009 15:16:55 +0000 (GMT), Michael Harding <...@ormail.co.uk
In article <...@billsimpson.com Bill (Adopt) <...@billsimpson.com
[ . . . ]
[ . . . ]
Delays vary enormously depending on the coroner - who is a law unto
himself and no authority can budge him from his decisions as the
representative of the crown in ensuring that no foul play was
involved. The criteria for a coroner are to see that truth and justice
are upheld, and although probably most of them are sensitive to the
needs of family and friends, their needs take no priority in reaching
a verdict.
I recall even in the 1960s a local coroner holding up the burial of a
body for 6 weeks. Procedures have been tightened up recently in the
light of the Shipman murders. The process can be prolonged further if
cremation is chosen (because then you lose the safeguard of later
being able to exhume the body).
It could be a protracted wait as the Coroner examines all the varied
aspects of Paul's life leading up to his death.
Michael Harding
--
Rev. Preb. M. D. Harding mdha...@ormail.co.uk
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
On Mon, 02 Mar 2009 15:39:01 GMT, Dr Peter Young <...@ormail.co.uk
On 2 Mar 2009 Michael Harding <...@ormail.co.uk
I was going to make just that point, but Michael got there first. I
would put it rather more strongly, though. There are coroners who go
out of their way to make everything as smooth and humane as possible
for the family, and those who only seem to be aware of their own
importance, disguised as the majesty of the law. Believe me, I've met
both sorts, and I'm sure that Dr Drew will confirm this. I just hope
that the Portsmouth coroner is one of the former sort.
[snip]
With best wishes,
Peter.
--
Peter Young, Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004.
Cheltenham and Gloucester.
Now happily retired.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
On Mon, 02 Mar 2009 17:27:20 +0000 (GMT), "Bill (Adopt)" <...@billsimpson.com
In article <...@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk Dr Peter Young <...@ormail.co.uk
Oh dear.., :((
Peter, Michael ..I seem to have unintentionally stirred
up some rather difficult rememberances of unwarranted
and unconscionable delays in the many unreal aspects of
'officialdom' that you have encountered in decades of
your working lives.
I empathise with experiences and feelings and the feelings
of others in the frustration and exasperation with some
'clever dicks' over the years.
As you, I hope that Louie, Paul's Mum and Dad and his
sister - among others - don't end up with that worry..
I must admit ..as a possible future 'customer' - we can
all end up this way - that my family might just be a
little happier with a coronor and pms that take the time
to consider all circumstances ..and investigate fully
both on my family's behalf and on behalf of the many others
who may gain from beneficial insight.
I think Shipman has kind of informed me that things done
rapidly and 'on the nod', with everything shuffled out
of the way as fast or faster than decently possible, is
nothing less than the ideal recipe for subterfuge and
extraordinary disaster for others..
I know we all want to know what happened to and all the
circumstance surrounding Paul's last hours ..it's Human
Nature to be so concerned. On the other hand it doesn't
really change anything. What has happened has happened
and I guess - don't know for certain but purely feel -
that as well patience the greatest memory that we can take
from this sad circumstance is that of Paul the Gentleman;
one who freely assisted all with a smile and (so far as
I've ever known from the days of early 1980's MicroNet)
with an unstintingly helpful hand even ..as Louie did
comment not long ago ..in the very early hours of a
Christmas Morning...
Would that everyone was like Paul in this respect...
..and for that ..and for Paul, I do smile.. :))
Bill ZFC
..and sorry if I stirred up some understandably and
very unhappy memories at the hand of 'Officious Officialdom'...
--
Adoption InterLink UK with -=- http://www.billsimpson.com/
Domain Host Orpheus Internet -=- http://www.orpheusinternet.co.uk/
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
On Mon, 02 Mar 2009 07:52:56 GMT, Dr Peter Young <...@ormail.co.uk
On 1 Mar 2009 John <...@blueyonder.co.uk
[snip]
Quoting from the Book of Condolence page at http://www.paulvigay.org/
"Paul's family have requested that anyone wishing to make a donation
in memory of Paul should send it to The Hillside Animal Sanctuary:
http://www.hillside.org.uk/acatalog/donations.html "
With best wishes,
Peter.
--
Peter, \ / zfc Tm \ Prestbury, Cheltenham, Glos. GL52
Anne \/ __ __ \ England.
and / / \ | | |\ | / _ \ http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
family / \__/ \_/ | \| \__/ \______________ pnyo...@ormail.co.uk
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
On Mon, 02 Mar 2009 09:07:41 +0000 (GMT), John <...@blueyonder.co.uk
In article <...@pnyoung.ormail.co.ukPeter Young <...@ormail.co.uk
Strangely, although I've been to the book of condolence
several times, I've never noticed that.
--
John
news...@blueyonder.co.uk
j dot mccartney atte blueyonder dot co dot uk
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
On Mon, 2 Mar 2009 10:26:47 +0000, Rob Kendrick <...@rjek.com
On Mon, 02 Mar 2009 10:17:12 +0000 (GMT)
Stuart <...@argonet.co.uk
It's been there since the 26th of February. Hopefully, I may get some
time to tart up that page a bit this week.
B.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
On Mon, 02 Mar 2009 18:34:52 +0000 (GMT), John <...@blueyonder.co.uk
In article <...@argonet.co.uk
This was a comment on my lack of observation, not a denial
of its existence.
--
John
news...@blueyonder.co.uk
j dot mccartney atte blueyonder dot co dot uk
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
On Wed, 04 Mar 2009 10:27:45 +0000 (GMT), Andrew Conroy <...@owlart.co.uk
The following has now been posted to Paul's Book of Condolence:
Paul Vigay Funeral Arrangements
Paul's mother Mavis, father John and sister Frances wanted to express the
comfort they have gained from this Book of Condolence.
They, and Paul's girlfriend Louie Smith, are still coming to terms with
the loss of Paul and are grateful for all the messages of support they
have received.
The arrangements for Paul's funeral service have now been finalised, with
the burial due to take place on Monday 16th March 2009 starting at 2.00
p.m at the South Downs Natural Burial Site at the Sustainability Centre,
Droxford Road, East Meon, Petersfield, Hants, GU32 1HR.
http://www.sustainability-centre.org/html/find_us.html
The family have been overwhelmed by the kind and insightful comments
received from all over the world, and would like to invite all his
friends and colleagues to celebrate his life in a memorial gathering in
the conference centre at the Sustainability Centre after the burial
service.
The burial will be at 2.00 p.m in the Natural Burial Site to be followed
by the memorial gathering.
Anyone who knew Paul personally is welcome to attend the memorial
gathering, and the family are keen to meet the people to whom Paul
clearly meant a lot, to gain strength from each other, and help them come
to terms with their loss.
The memorial gathering is expected to last for about an hour, and will be
non-denominational.
To help with the arrangements for the funeral, the family have asked that
anyone outside the family who would like to attend the memorial gathering
would signal their intention to attend by adding their name to the list
of attendees on the Book of Condolence website
(http://www.paulvigay.org/) as soon as possible. (This feature will be
added to the site tomorrow morning; please be patient!) This is to allow
for suitable seating and refreshments after the burial.
After the memorial there will be light refreshments to which everyone is
invited. The afternoon will come to a close between 4-5 p.m.
Anyone attending the burial should be at the centre by 2.00 p.m. Please
be aware that there will be limited space at the burial and to prioritise
family and close friends. There is parking on site.
Anyone with any queries should contact Paul Middleton on 0772 044 6921.
--
+----------------------------------------+---------------------------------+
| Andrew Conroy, Owl-Art Un-Ltd. | email: a.m....@argonet.co.uk |
| Coming to you on an Acorn RiscPC SA110 | |
+----------------------------------------+---------------------------------+
The impossible I can do at once, miracles take a little longer!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
On Wed, 4 Mar 2009 13:11:38 +0000, Rob Kendrick <...@rjek.com
On Wed, 04 Mar 2009 10:27:45 +0000 (GMT)
Andrew Conroy <...@owlart.co.uk
This functionality is now working. If anybody is intending to attend
the memorial, please make it known using the form on that site, or
emailing me the requested information directly (the former is
preferred.)
I will then pass this on to the organisers.
B.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|