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PAGE ONE Wall Street Journal

Anonymous Wrote:

----------------------------------------------------------------------
PAGE ONE Wall Street Journal
APRIL 17, 2009, 11:19 P.M. ET

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123998633934729551.html

Justice Stevens Renders an Opinion on Who Wrote Shakespeare's Plays
It Wasn't the Bard of Avon, He Says; 'Evidence Is Beyond a Reasonable
Doubt'
By JESS BRAVIN

<<In his 34 years on the Supreme Court, Justice John Paul Stevens has
evolved from idiosyncratic dissenter to influential elder, able to
assemble majorities on issues such as war powers and property rights.
Now, the court's senior justice could be gaining ground on a case that
dates back 400 years: the authorship of Shakespeare's plays.

Justice Stevens, who dropped out of graduate study in English to join
the Navy in 1941, is an Oxfordian -- that is, he believes the works
ascribed to William Shakespeare actually were written by the 17th earl
of Oxford, Edward de Vere. Several justices across the court's
ideological spectrum say he may be right.

This puts much of the court squarely outside mainstream academic
opinion, which equates denial of Shakespeare's authorship with the
Flat Earth Society.

"Oh my," said Coppelia Kahn, president of the Shakespeare Association
of America and professor of English at Brown University, when informed
of Justice Stevens's cause. "Nobody gives any credence to these
arguments," she says.

Nonetheless, since the 19th century, some have argued that only a
nobleman could have produced writings so replete with intimate
depictions of courtly life and exotic settings far beyond England.
Dabbling in entertainments was considered undignified, the theory
goes, so the author laundered his works through Shakespeare, a member
of the Globe Theater's acting troupe.

Over the years, various candidates have attracted prominent
supporters. Mark Twain is said to have favored Sir Francis Bacon.
Malcolm X preferred King James I. De Vere first was advanced in 1918
by an English schoolmaster named J. Thomas Looney. More recently,
thanks in part to aggressive lobbying by a contemporary descendant,
Charles Vere, Oxford has emerged as a leading alternate author.
[John Paul Stevens]

John Paul Stevens

The bow-tied, 88-year-old Justice Stevens, who often leads the court's
liberal wing, says he became especially interested in Shakespeare when
he attended the Chicago World's Fair in 1933, where a replica Globe
Theater presented many of the plays. Justice Stevens's father ran the
restaurant concession nearby.

Justice Stevens didn't start thinking about the authorship question,
though, until 1987, when he joined Justices William Brennan and Harry
Blackmun in a mock trial on authorship.

The panel found insufficient evidence to prove de Vere's claim.
Justice Brennan vigorously rejected many Oxfordian premises, finding
that "the historical William Shakespeare was not such an ignorant
butcher's boy as he has been made out." It was a closer call for the
other two justices.

"Right after the argument, both Harry and I got more interested in
it," Justice Stevens says. In a visit to Shakespeare's birthplace in
Stratford-upon-Avon, Justice Stevens observed that the purported
playwright left no books, nor letters or other records of a literary
presence.

"Where are the books? You can't be a scholar of that depth and not
have any books in your home," Justice Stevens says. "He never had any
correspondence with his contemporaries, he never was shown to be
present at any major event -- the coronation of James or any of that
stuff. I think the evidence that he was not the author is beyond a
reasonable doubt."

All signs pointed to de Vere. Justice Stevens mentions that Lord
Burghley, guardian of the young de Vere, is generally accepted as the
model for the courtier Polonius in "Hamlet." "Burghley was the No. 1
adviser to the queen," says the justice. "De Vere married [Burghley's]
daughter, which fits in with Hamlet marrying Polonius's daughter,
Ophelia."

Shakespeare dedicated two narrative poems to the earl of Southampton,
Henry Wriothesley, "who also was a ward of Lord Burghley and grew up
in the same household," Justice Stevens says. "The coincidence...is
really quite remarkable." He asks, "Why in the world would William
Shakespeare, the guy from Stratford, be dedicating these works to this
nobleman?"

The Supreme Court on the likely author of Shakespeare's plays:

Active Justices
Roberts, Chief Justice No comment.
Stevens Oxford
Scalia Oxford
Kennedy Stratford
Souter "No idea."
Thomas No comment.
Ginsburg "No informed views."*
Breyer Stratford
Alito No comment.
Retired Justices
O'Connor Not Stratford
Blackmun* Oxford
Brennan* Stratford

*Deceased

Not all members of the court are persuaded. "To the extent I've dipped
in, I'm not impressed with the Oxfordian theory," says Justice Anthony
Kennedy. The spread of Oxfordianism on the court "shows Justice
Stevens's power and influence," Justice Kennedy says. Of the nine
active justices, only Stephen Breyer joins Justice Kennedy in sticking
up for Will. Chief Justice John Roberts and Justices Clarence Thomas
and Samuel Alito declined to comment.

Justice Sandra Day O'Connor, who retired in 2006, cast the court's
deciding vote many times. On Shakespeare, she says, "I'm not going to
jump into this and be decisive."

According to Justice Stevens, "Sandra is persuaded that it definitely
was not Shakespeare" and "it's more likely de Vere than any other
candidate." Pressed, Justice O'Connor says, "It might well have been
someone other than our Stratford man."

Justice Stevens admits there's a "fringe" element of anti-
Shakespearians who spin elaborate but unlikely theories. "I think
that's one of the things that hurts the cause -- and the fact that the
guy who first came up with de Vere was named Looney," he says.

On the other hand, "a lot of people like to think its Shakespeare
because...they like to think that a commoner can be such a brilliant
writer," he says. "Even though there is no Santa Claus, it's still a
wonderful myth."

On this issue, Justice Stevens sees eye to eye with his frequent
conservative antagonist, Antonin Scalia, who says that as a child he
received a monograph propounding de Vere's cause from a family friend.

"My wife, who is a much better expert in literature than I am, has
berated me," says Justice Scalia. "She thinks we Oxfordians are
motivated by the fact that we can't believe that a commoner could have
done something like this, you know, it's an aristocratic tendency."
Stevens on Shakespeare

In a law review article in 1992, Justice Stevens mused on the
"Shakespeare canon of statutory construction." (Reproduced with
permission.)

In 2002, he addressed "section 43(A)" of the Shakespeare canon.
Where It Began

Watch Justices Stevens, Brennan and Blackmun's 1987 Shakespeare trial,
as recorded by C-SPAN.

Justice Scalia prefers to turn the tables.

"It is probably more likely that the pro-Shakespearean people are
affected by a democratic bias than the Oxfordians are affected by an
aristocratic bias," he says.

Justices David Souter and Ruth Bader Ginsburg say they're not sure who
wrote the plays. Justice Ginsburg, however, provided a March email
from her daughter Jane, a law professor currently in Rome. Jane
Ginsburg wrote she recently saw an Italian television program
postulating that "Shakespeare was Sicilian and Jewish, sort of."

Justice Stevens can indulge his love of the Bard at the Folger
Shakespeare Library, a block from the Supreme Court. He says he had a
particular brainstorm after learning the library held a Bible that
once belonged to de Vere.

"In two of the plays Shakespeare has an incident using the bed trick,
in which the man is not aware of the identity of the woman he's
sleeping with," Justice Stevens says, referring to "All's Well That
Ends Well" and "Measure for Measure." "And there's an incident in the
Old Testament where the same event allegedly occurred."

Justice Stevens says he reasoned that if de Vere had borrowed the
escapade from his Bible, "he would have underlined those portions of
it. So I went over once to ask them to dig out the Bible."

Unfortunately, the passage involving the substitution of Leah for
Rachel in Jacob's bed, Genesis 29:23, was not marked. "I really
thought I might have stumbled onto something that would be a very
strong coincidence," Justice Stevens says. "But it did not develop at
all."

Stevens's clerks sometimes find themselves drawn into the debate.
Deborah Pearlstein, now a human-rights scholar at Princeton, says the
justice was intrigued by her undergraduate study of French-language
Shakespeare productions, and asked her to help edit an essay on the
authorship dispute.

"It was just great fun," says Ms. Pearlstein. To her, however, the
authorship evidence is inconclusive. Besides, "coming off a college
education in postmodern literary theory, I was mildly troubled by the
'who-shot-John?' interest in who the real Shakespeare was," she says.
"My view is that the work stands on own."

Justice Stevens doesn't disagree. Even if he were proved wrong, he
says, "I've had much more serious disappointments in this job than
that one."-----------------------------------
Art Neuendorffer



On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 15:10:57 +1000, Ignoto <...@tarpit.org

Perhaps someone can next empanel a group of English/History professors
to tell the judges where their legal scholarship has gone awry.

Ign.

[ramblings snipped]

On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 23:40:22 -0700, Gary <...@nomorespam.com

<G
- Gary

On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 03:28:19 -0700 (PDT), "bob...@nut-n-but.net" <...@nut-n-but.net


On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 03:29:01 -0700 (PDT), "bob...@nut-n-but.net" <...@nut-n-but.net

I'm surprised that any of the morons on the supreme court is not an
Oxfordian.

--Bob G.

On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 05:07:23 -0700 (PDT), Willedever <...@gmail.com

On Apr 18, 3:29 am, "bob...@nut-n-but.net" <bobgrum...@nut-n-
but.net
Either talk Shakespeare or shut up and get lost, you brain-damaged
shit head.

On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 23:28:16 -0700 (PDT), elizabeth <...@yahoo.com

Art,

In order to have been Shake-speare, Oxford
would have had to write the Sonnets. Oxford
did not write the Sonnets because nothing
he or rather his paid poets wrote that approaches
the Sonnets. The Sonnets are merely the
greatest poetry ever written.

When the Sonnets were written, the Sidney-
Herberts were still unhappy with Oxford for
plotting to kill Philip Sidney and for Oxford's
earlier plot to kill Mary's uncle the Earl of
Leicester. In that plot Oxford and his Catholic
cousins may have succeeded in try #2.

Notice that Mary stalled the Herbert-Vere
wedding until after Oxford was dead.

There's no way that Mary would let the
dissolute little earl hang about her darling
William. And he was handsome. Had Bacon's
genetic checklist.

On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 02:48:10 -0700 (PDT), Willedever <...@gmail.com

On Apr 17, 11:28 pm, elizabeth <...@yahoo.com

Vere did write /some/ of the Shakespeare Sonnets. William Shakespeare
wrote most of them.

The ones by William Shakespeare:

1-21, 23, 24, 26-28, 33-35, 38-41 . . .

The ones by Vere:

22, 25, 29-32, 36, 37 . . .

None of them is by Bacon.

On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 03:32:31 -0700 (PDT), "bob...@nut-n-but.net" <...@nut-n-but.net

On Apr 18, 1:28 am, elizabeth <...@yahoo.com
Baloney. Unless you can tell me just why they were "the greatest
poetry ever written." They weren't even the great poetry written when
Shakespeare was living.

--Bob

Anonymous Wrote:

elizabeth <...@yahoo.com
They don't do much for me but certainly
Oxford wrote the Sonnets if he wrote anything:
-----------------------------------------------
. "UNO VERE-VIRGIL" POET
. "NIL VERO-VERIU(S)" POET
. "OUR EVER-LIVING" POET
---------------------------------------------

The Sidney-Oxford feud is a charade that you fell for.

NOT!

Dream on, Elizabeth.

Art Neuendorffer

On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 15:15:13 -0700 (PDT), Greg Reynolds <...@core.com

Are you gonna open with that?

Anonymous Wrote:

Greg Reynolds <...@core.com
My favorite part was:

<<Justice Stevens admits there's a "fringe" element of anti-
Shakespearians who spin elaborate but unlikely theories. "I think
that's one of the things that hurts the cause -- and the fact that the
guy who first came up with de Vere was named Looney," he says.
Art Neuendorffer

On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 15:54:37 -0700 (PDT), Greg Reynolds <...@core.com

My favorite part is that Scalia has no legal mind and no evidence for
Oxford!

Anonymous Wrote:

Greg Reynolds <...@core.com-------------------------------------------------
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonin_Scalia

<<Antonin Scalia attended Xavier High School, a Jesuit school in
Manhattan. He graduated first in his class and summa cum laude with an
A.B. in History from Georgetown College in 1957. While at Georgetown,
he also studied at the University of Fribourg, Switzerland and went on
to study law at Harvard Law School, where he was a Notes Editor for
the Harvard Law Review. He graduated magna cum laude from Harvard Law
in 1960, becoming a Sheldon Fellow of Harvard University the following
year.-------------------------------------------------
Art Neuendorffer

On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 05:13:35 -0700 (PDT), Greg Reynolds <...@core.com

Bill Clinton, who was President of the United States when the
decision [Bush vs. Gore] was made, wrote in his autobiography, My
Life:
"Bush v. Gore will go down in history as one of the
worst decisions the Supreme Court ever made,
along with the Dred Scott case."

Anonymous Wrote:

Greg Reynolds <...@core.com
How did Oxfordian Justice John Paul Stevens vote on that one again?

Art Neuendorffer

On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 06:59:10 -0700 (PDT), "bob...@nut-n-but.net" <...@nut-n-but.net

Ah, you mean Scalie may once have had a functioning mind?

--Bob

On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 05:03:59 -0700 (PDT), Willedever <...@gmail.com

He's half right. Some of the Shakespeare plays are founded on older
court comedy material by de Vere.

That is the part Vere provided: some courtly characters, and exotic
settings, particularly Italy. Those came from Vere's court comedy
material. Such things are not, however, the entire content of the
common stage plays as we now have them. Not even close to the entire
content.

Hardly that. Shakespeare was granted the material by Vere, to use in
developing plays for the common stage, because Shakespeare had once
been a member of Oxford's Men. From that, Vere and Shakespeare became
friends. They were both extremely bright, and unusually literate, and
they had similar tastes in poetry and theater.

People have habitually, stupidly supposed the question must be either/
or, but in fact it is not.

When have you encountered any real issue that was exactly either/or?
Occasionally, perhaps, but not often.

Some of the Shakespeare plays - Love's Labours Lost, Romeo and Juliet,
Hamlet, et al - are founded on old Vere court comedy plays.
Shakespeare gained the right, from Vere, to make use of his original
material, to create plays for the common stage. (In the case of
'Hamlet', an intermediate adaptation by Kyd also existed, between
Vere's court comedy and Shakespeare's common stage 'Hamlet' as we now
have it.)

Since William Shakespeare did the work of making the plays suitable
for public performance, he gets the credit, of course. There was
undoubtedly a great deal of work required. And certainly not all of
the Shakespeare plays sprang from Vere court plays, only some of them.

Vere's court plays would not have been stage worthy at the Globe, any
more than, say, the original Ralph Roister Doister would be considered
stage worthy for Broadway, now.

That is right. William Shakespeare was a brilliant writer, who was
equally good at stage craft. He was a man who could make a play
really work, on stage, to entertain an audience, by doing exactly what
he has Hamlet say: "suit the action to the word." In addition to his
superb writing, Shakespeare was the best at coordinating action with
dialogue.

Shakespeare did not, however, originate all the material he used for
his plays (a fact universally acknowledged.) He got a large amount of
material from Vere, much of it already quite well written. It made
Shakespeare's job much easier.

That's right, his will mentions no books, and he retired from writing
at an unusually early age. There must be a reason for that, of
course. A real reason, a practical reason. An understandable reason.

Sonnet 149

Canst thou, O cruel! say I love thee not,
When I against myself with thee partake?
...
But, love, hate on, for now I know thy mind;
Those that can see, thou lovest, and I am blind.
---

Observe the conclusion.

Words from Shakespeare: "I am blind."

One more time. Pause, take a deep breath, shut your mouth, and look
at that.

"I am blind."

Why was that on his mind, so that he made use of the phrase?

Shakespeare didn't go completely blind, apparently. But he began to
lose vision about the time he turned 40 - and it is entirely typical
for farsightedness to develop around that age. In Shakespeare's day,
there were some lenses available, for what they were worth, but one
did not simply go to the corner store and buy reading glasses. His
vision became bad enough that as an author, he was "blind." He could
no longer see to read, or write. He first partnered with Fletcher, as
a visual necessity, but soon he retired completely.

It may not have been only an unusually severe case of age-related
hyperopia. Shakespeare was too young for senile cataracts, but there
are other things than age that can lead to cataracts. Diseases of the
eye, that interfere with vision, are numerous, and hardly any of them
would have been susceptible of effective treatment in those days.

Yes, you can -- if you can no longer read books, why have them?

He sold his books in London when he retired.

That is correct. It goes back to Vere's court comedy material which
Shakespeare used. Shakespeare didn't bother to try to change that
part, at least not very much, since Burghley was dead at the time
Shakespeare staged his 'Hamlet.' Shakespeare tuned the part some,
from the way Vere originated it, but essentially left it.

Well, Hamlet doesn't marry Ophelia. But the idea is raised in the
play, of course. In Vere's old court comedy, the hero probably did
marry his maiden in the end, after Claudius (Leicester) and Polonius
(Burghley) got their deserts. But first Kyd changed that, when he
adapted Vere's comedy into a tragedy, and then Shakespeare went with
Kyd's version, to keep it a tragedy.

Shakespeare had made the acquaintance of Vere. Vere, who was
Shakespeare's friend by that time, pointed him to Southampton as a
prospective patron.

He ought to be impressed, to some extent. There is /some/ truth in
Oxfordian ideas, but they're hardly the whole story. Vere is not the
"omega" for the Shakespeare plays, but he is the "alpha" for some of
them, so to speak.

Go around saying that and you'll get no Christmas presents, you stupid
fool.

Bullshit.

He won't be proved completely wrong, but he'll be proved half-wrong.

-----------

http://www.hamletregained.com

On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 12:29:45 GMT, "Peter Groves" <...@whatever.org

This loon makes Crowley look like a man with a firm grasp on reality.

--
Peter G.

"Willedever" <...@x29g2000prf.googlegroups.com...


On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 13:58:43 -0700 (PDT), "bob...@nut-n-but.net" <...@nut-n-but.net

On Apr 18, 7:29 am, "Peter Groves" <...@whatever.orgI dunno, Peter. I have to admit that his diagnosis of me was
startlingly accurate.

--Bob

On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 15:04:18 -0700 (PDT), Willedever <...@gmail.com

On Apr 18, 1:58 pm, "bob...@nut-n-but.net" <bobgrum...@nut-n-
but.net
Nothing.

Either talk Shakespeare, or shut up and get lost, you stupid brain-
damaged shit head.

On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 15:02:48 -0700 (PDT), Willedever <...@gmail.com

On Apr 18, 5:29 am, "Peter Groves" <...@whatever.org
Garbage.

Little Petey boy, either talk Shakespeare, or shut up and get lost,
you stupid brain-damaged shit head.

On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 22:36:48 GMT, "Peter Groves" <...@whatever.org

Correction: this boorish infantile loon (with his hallucinated "insights"
into literary history) makes Crowley look like a civilised adult with a firm
grasp on reality.

--
Peter G.

"Willedever" <...@d7g2000prl.googlegroups.com...


On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 14:30:54 -0700, Gary <...@nomorespam.com

Odd. I was thinking that of the various alternate
authorship theories I've read in this newsgroup over the
years, Willedever's was the most plausible.

Mind you, I haven't seen any real evidence to suggest that
it's actually true. Only that it's the most plausible
alternate authorship theory I've read. At the very least,
it makes more sense to me than to suggest that the
organizers of an authorship conspiracy chose an illiterate
bumpkin to pose as the author, for instance.

- Gary

On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 15:05:35 -0700 (PDT), Willedever <...@gmail.com

On Apr 18, 2:30 pm, Gary <...@nomorespam.com
It's not only plausible, Gary, it's true.

http://www.hamletregained.com

On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 00:10:49 +0100, Paul Crowley <...@sdfsfsfs.com

The illiterate bumpkin was a perfect choice.
No one sensible was expected to take it
seriously -- it was meant only to take
in fools.

Hasn't it worked well?

Paul.

On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 18:14:16 -0700 (PDT), "bob...@nut-n-but.net" <...@nut-n-but.net

On Apr 18, 4:30 pm, Gary <...@nomorespam.com
Well, except that if Shakespeare was a brilliant literate, there's no
reason whatever to hallucinate some noble's helping him, nor--if one
does so--to suppose it must have been Oxford. Why not some other
noble--or Elizabeth? Elizabeth makes more sense because how else
could Shakespeare have plumbed the depths of the female mind as no
other male mortal has (same as he plumbed the depths of Everything as
no other male mortal has)?

--Bob

On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 06:50:05 -0700 (PDT), "bob...@nut-n-but.net" <...@nut-n-but.net

On Apr 18, 4:30 pm, Gary <...@nomorespam.com
Well, except that if Shakespeare was a brilliant literate, there's no
reason whatever to
hallucinate some noble's helping him, nor--if one does so--to suppose
it must have been
Oxford. Why not some other noble--or Elizabeth? Elizabeth makes more
sense because
how else could Shakespeare have plumbed the depths of the female mind
as no other male
mortal has (same as he plumbed the depths of Everything as no other
male mortal has)?

Brain-Damaged Bob

On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 15:26:16 +0100, Paul Crowley <...@sdfsfsfs.com

And if pigs had wings there's no reason
to think that they could not fly.

Everything makes so much sense in Stratfordia.

Paul.

On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 07:03:52 -0700 (PDT), "bob...@nut-n-but.net" <...@nut-n-but.net

Art, since you enjoy re-cycling Internet crap, how about posting the
comments the Wall Street Journal has gotten for its expose of
Stevens's senility?

Also, could you, or anyone, please send an e.mail to the Journal
telling them that bobg...@nut-n-but.net has tried seven or eight
times to register in order to make comments and been told that he'd
receive an e.mail to use to complete his registration that he never
got, and that he is now not allowed either to e.mail the Journal or
visit its site.

--Bob

Anonymous Wrote:

"bob...@nut-n-but.net" <...@nut-n-but.net
How old are you again, Bob?
.
"bob...@nut-n-but.net" <...@nut-n-but.net
The Journal has chosen wisely.

Art Neuendorffer

Discussion Title: PAGE ONE Wall Street Journal
Title Keywords: PAGE  Wall  Street  Journal