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On Tue, 2 Jun 2009 07:48:56 +1000, "SuperGumby [SBS MVP]" <...@your.nellie
pretty darn sure the PERC in the 2900 will allow you to resize the array if
you add those 2HDD to the 4. This increases the size of the HDD apparent to
Windows but keeps your existing partitions intact, the additional space will
be available to use as a new partition or you could adjust partition sizes
(adjusting existing partitions by methods other than backup/restore puts the
system into an unsupported state, you wouldn't be the 1st to do so though).
RAID5 performance will improve _quite dramatically_ with the addition of the
drives (reads/writes across 6 vs 4).
I would consider the backup time a major problem. My only suggestion is a
tape drive.
A 'proper' NAS would have a tape drive included in the NAS. Pulling data
across the network and writing it to USB is only going to (probably
dramatically) increase that backup time.
--
SBS remote support services. (Fees apply)
mickm at mickmalloy dot dyndns dot org
"Jack" <...@z5g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
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On Mon, 1 Jun 2009 16:49:01 -0500, "Cris Hanna [SBS - MVP]" <...@cpunospamservices.net
I would most likely go with the NAS.
Adding more drives to that RAID could actually adversely affect performance.
--
Cris Hanna [SBS - MVP]
Co-Contributor, Windows Small Business Server 2008 Unleashed
http://www.amazon.com/Windows-Small-Business-Server-Unleashed/dp/0672329573/ref =pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1217269967&sr=8-1
Owner, CPU Services, Belleville, IL
A Microsoft Registered Partner
------------------------------------
MVPs do not work for Microsoft
Please do not submit questions directly to me.
"Jack" <...@techexpress.ca One client's Dell PE 2900 server is full, the data partition (4x146GB,
RAID5) is almost 0MB available.
Here is 2 solutions I can think of
- There are 2 more hot-swappable hdd slots available. So i can throw
in 2x146GB to expand RAID5
- Install a 1TB NAS (Network Attached Storage) box
Which way is better?
Do you backup the data stored on NAS?
Regardless which way I go, I have to think about how to back up such
big amount of data. Currently external. USB2.0 hdd is being used,
which takes 22hrs to finish a full backup, this is too long. What's a
better way to handle the backup?
Thanks for your input!
Jack
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"<HTML<META content=text/html;charset=iso-8859-1 http-equiv=Content-Type<META name=GENERATOR content="MSHTML 8.00.7100.0"<BODY style="PADDING-LEFT: 10px; PADDING-RIGHT: 10px; PADDING-TOP: 15px"
id=MailContainerBody leftMargin=0 topMargin=0 CanvasTabStop="true"
name="Compose message area"<DIV<DIVaffect performance.</FONT<DIVServer 2008 Unleashed<BRhref="http://www.amazon.com/Windows-Small-Business-Server-Unleashed/dp/0672329573/ref =pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1217269967&sr=8-1"CPU Services, Belleville, IL<BRPartner<BRMicrosoft<BR<DIV<DIV<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px" <DIV href...@techexpress.ca" <A
href...@z5g2000vba.googlegroups.com" client's Dell PE 2900 server is full, the data partition (4x146GB,<BR is almost 0MB available.<BR 2 more hot-swappable hdd slots available. So i can throw<BR expand RAID5<BR box<BR NAS?<BR such<BR used,<BR a<BR input!<BR
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On Tue, 2 Jun 2009 07:54:56 +1000, "SuperGumby [SBS MVP]" <...@your.nellie
????? (performance)
--
SBS remote support services. (Fees apply)
mickm at mickmalloy dot dyndns dot org
"Cris Hanna [SBS - MVP]" <...@cpunospamservices.netmessage news...@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
I would most likely go with the NAS.
Adding more drives to that RAID could actually adversely affect performance.
--
Cris Hanna [SBS - MVP]
Co-Contributor, Windows Small Business Server 2008 Unleashed
http://www.amazon.com/Windows-Small-Business-Server-Unleashed/dp/0672329573/ref =pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1217269967&sr=8-1
Owner, CPU Services, Belleville, IL
A Microsoft Registered Partner
------------------------------------
MVPs do not work for Microsoft
Please do not submit questions directly to me.
"Jack" <...@z5g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
One client's Dell PE 2900 server is full, the data partition (4x146GB,
RAID5) is almost 0MB available.
Here is 2 solutions I can think of
- There are 2 more hot-swappable hdd slots available. So i can throw
in 2x146GB to expand RAID5
- Install a 1TB NAS (Network Attached Storage) box
Which way is better?
Do you backup the data stored on NAS?
Regardless which way I go, I have to think about how to back up such
big amount of data. Currently external. USB2.0 hdd is being used,
which takes 22hrs to finish a full backup, this is too long. What's a
better way to handle the backup?
Thanks for your input!
Jack
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On Mon, 1 Jun 2009 17:01:07 -0500, "Cris Hanna [SBS - MVP]" <...@cpunospamservices.net
Depends on the controller, and as you mentioned, backup times could be an issue...
There was a discussion on another list recently about performance with very very large raid volumes
--
Cris Hanna [SBS - MVP]
Co-Contributor, Windows Small Business Server 2008 Unleashed
http://www.amazon.com/Windows-Small-Business-Server-Unleashed/dp/0672329573/ref =pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1217269967&sr=8-1
Owner, CPU Services, Belleville, IL
A Microsoft Registered Partner
------------------------------------
MVPs do not work for Microsoft
Please do not submit questions directly to me.
"SuperGumby [SBS MVP]" <...@your.nellie ????? (performance)
--
SBS remote support services. (Fees apply)
mickm at mickmalloy dot dyndns dot org
"Cris Hanna [SBS - MVP]" <...@cpunospamservices.net message news...@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
I would most likely go with the NAS.
Adding more drives to that RAID could actually adversely affect performance.
--
Cris Hanna [SBS - MVP]
Co-Contributor, Windows Small Business Server 2008 Unleashed
http://www.amazon.com/Windows-Small-Business-Server-Unleashed/dp/0672329573/ref =pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1217269967&sr=8-1
Owner, CPU Services, Belleville, IL
A Microsoft Registered Partner
------------------------------------
MVPs do not work for Microsoft
Please do not submit questions directly to me.
"Jack" <...@techexpress.ca news...@z5g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
One client's Dell PE 2900 server is full, the data partition (4x146GB,
RAID5) is almost 0MB available.
Here is 2 solutions I can think of
- There are 2 more hot-swappable hdd slots available. So i can throw
in 2x146GB to expand RAID5
- Install a 1TB NAS (Network Attached Storage) box
Which way is better?
Do you backup the data stored on NAS?
Regardless which way I go, I have to think about how to back up such
big amount of data. Currently external. USB2.0 hdd is being used,
which takes 22hrs to finish a full backup, this is too long. What's a
better way to handle the backup?
Thanks for your input!
Jack
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"<HTML<META content=text/html;charset=iso-8859-1 http-equiv=Content-Type<META name=GENERATOR content="MSHTML 8.00.7100.0"<BODY style="PADDING-LEFT: 10px; PADDING-RIGHT: 10px; PADDING-TOP: 15px"
id=MailContainerBody leftMargin=0 topMargin=0 CanvasTabStop="true"
name="Compose message area"<DIVtimes could be an issue...</FONT<DIVperformance with very very large raid volumes</FONT<DIV<DIVServer 2008 Unleashed<BRtitle="http://www.amazon.com/Windows-Small-Business-Server-Unleashed/dp/0672329573/ref =pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1217269967&sr=8-1
CTRL + Click to follow link"
href="http://www.amazon.com/Windows-Small-Business-Server-Unleashed/dp/0672329573/ref =pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1217269967&sr=8-1"CPU Services, Belleville, IL<BRPartner<BRMicrosoft<BR<DIV<DIV<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px" <DIV href...@your.nellie" href...@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl" (performance)<BR at mickmalloy dot dyndns dot org<BR href...@cpunospamservices.net" wrote in <BR href...@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl" would most likely go with the NAS.<BR could actually adversely affect performance.<BR MVP]<BR href="http://www.amazon.com/Windows-Small-Business-Server-Unleashed/dp/0672329573/ref =pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1217269967&sr=8-1" CPU Services, Belleville, IL<BR Partner<BR Microsoft<BR "Jack" <<A href...@techexpress.ca" wrote in message <BR href...@z5g2000vba.googlegroups.com" One client's Dell PE 2900 server is full, the data partition
(4x146GB,<BR solutions I can think of<BR available. So i can throw<BR Install a 1TB NAS (Network Attached Storage) box<BR better?<BR Regardless which way I go, I have to think about how to back up such<BR big amount of data. Currently external. USB2.0 hdd is being used,<BR which takes 22hrs to finish a full backup, this is too long. What's
a<BR input!<BR
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On Mon, 1 Jun 2009 18:29:27 -0400, Leythos <...@rrohio.com
In article <...@cpunospamservices.net says...
Care to explain that?
The more drives added to a RAID-5 the faster the read performance an all
cases - and since most SBS servers are about 70% read, 30% write, it can
only improve performance on ever SBS server I've seen.
Backup time is significantly WORSE when a NAS is involved, a network
connection is significantly slower than a SCSI/SAS/SATA channel.
--
You can't trust your best friends, your five senses, only the little
voice inside you that most civilians don't even hear -- Listen to that.
Trust yourself.
spam...@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)
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On Tue, 2 Jun 2009 12:10:05 +0100, "Brian Cryer" <not.here@localhost
"Jack" <...@z5g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
I don't have anything to add to what others have said on ways to extend your
storage.
I currently backup about 1TB to external USB HDD and it completes each night
without running into the day.
I suggest you look into how you are doing your backup. If you do an
"ntbackup" of everything then it probably will take that long. I do a system
backup (using nt backup) of the C drive and for exchange, but all my data
files (different logical drives) are simply copied - but only copying new or
changed files and deleting ones from the backup which no longer exist. For
various reasons I use an internal appliction, but I think robocopy would do
this for you just as well. What it means is that for all your files once you
have a complete backup then each time you cycle the backup disk it only
needs to copy what has changed rather than everything. The time saving can
be quite significant.
http://everything.explained.at/Robocopy/
HTH.
--
Brian Cryer
http://www.cryer.co.uk/brian
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On Mon, 1 Jun 2009 18:05:17 -0400, "Dave Nickason [SBS MVP]" <...@NOSPAM.frontiernet.net
I just added a pair of drives to the last 2 slots in a 2900. In my case, I
did them as a mirror and moved over the Exchange databases. Dell now makes
kits that include the drive, carrier, and screws, so it was a breeze to do
this. It might be a little more effort (configuration wise) to expand the
existing array, but even still it should be pretty easy.
You could also consider a Windows Storage Server as a NAS. I just priced a
Dell PowerVault NV100 with a TB of storage. I've already got something
similar to this and it's great as well. IMO the operating system is a big
plus to this compared to a more basic device - I run backup software on my
Storage Server box so it handles its own backup separately from the SBS.
The negative to the one I looked at today is that it's still running Storage
Server 2003 R2. The 08 version was just recently released, and it's
apparently not available from Dell quite yet.
The rest of my $.02 is that cost and performance are factors. Depending on
how many users/how much data, you might just be prolonging the agony on the
2900 (if you're going to burn through the extra storage before you want to
replace the box). But a Storage Server is going to be expensive if you put
SAS drives in it (but not unreasonable if you use SATA). You might get a
benefit from having a second box in that you're not trying to back up all
that storage capacity into a single backup that's already giving you issues
on the SBS.
Off the topic a little, I'd look at the ShadowProtect SBS version for backup
rather than deal with 22 hours for SBS Backup. I've got a server with a
little over 120 GB of data that ShadowProtect backs up in under 3 hours
(full backup once a week). Incrementals every three hours on weekdays take
less than 5 minutes and don't noticeably effect performance.
"Jack" <...@z5g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
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On Tue, 2 Jun 2009 11:47:50 -0700 (PDT), Jack <...@gmail.com
On Jun 1, 4:13 pm, "SuperGumby [SBS MVP]" <...@your.nellie
WHS may be a solution, but it can be burnt or stolen, so how do you
transfer the backup data on WHS to off site?
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On Tue, 2 Jun 2009 16:57:53 -0400, "Larry Struckmeyer [SBS MVP]" <...@mis-wizards.com
WHS does a neat trick. It makes only one copy of the file, even if there
are 10 pc's being backed up. So, you cut your disk usage down by a factor
of X.
Once the X is known, you can size an external drive to the WHS and backup
the backups to the external drive and take that off site as often as you
wish.
--
Larry Struckmeyer
Get your SBS Health Check
at http://www.sbsbpa.com
WHS may be a solution, but it can be burnt or stolen, so how do you
transfer the backup data on WHS to off site?
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On Wed, 3 Jun 2009 00:18:16 -0700, "Russ - http://www.SBITS.Biz" <...@REMOVETHIS.sbits.biz
if only they would have put this in SBS2008 like they were supposed to :( :(
Yes I'm still crying about it LOL
Russ
--
Russell Grover - SBITS.Biz
Microsoft Gold Certified Partner
Microsoft Certified Small Business Specialist
World Wide 24hr SBS Remote Support - http://www.SBSrepair.com
Microsoft Online Services - http://www.microsoft-online-services.com/
"Larry Struckmeyer [SBS MVP]" <...@mis-wizards.commessage news...@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>
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On Mon, 1 Jun 2009 18:27:16 -0400, Leythos <...@rrohio.com
In article <248a6a37-ac57-4209-9edf-fe086c2a4681
@z5g2000vba.googlegroups.com
Why not install 2 x 1GB drives in a RAID-1 in the server and move data
to that location, the users would never know and you would have more
space for them to work with.
NAS means backup across the network, NAS, while many have redundant
drives, redundant drives does not make a backup, so you still need to
make a backup.
--
You can't trust your best friends, your five senses, only the little
voice inside you that most civilians don't even hear -- Listen to that.
Trust yourself.
spam...@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)
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On Mon, 1 Jun 2009 18:38:02 -0700, "Russ - http://www.SBITS.Biz" <...@REMOVETHIS.sbits.biz
Maybe he means sticking USB Sticks in Software RAID1?
Oh I do the same thing
I was actually thinking the same thing as Leythos
Put in two 1TB drives or even 1.5TB Drives in RAID1
Move folders you want over there. Plenty of space
users will not have to be retrained where data is at all :)
Get some 1.5TB USB Drives for backup and ShadowProtect if you are running
out of time overnight on backups.
(I personally don't like NAS for a primary backup,)
RAID1 External USB's but not NAS.. Dealing with 1 extra layer of software.
--
Russell Grover - SBITS.Biz
Microsoft Gold Certified Partner
Microsoft Certified Small Business Specialist
World Wide 24hr SBS Remote Support - http://www.SBSrepair.com
Microsoft Online Services - http://www.microsoft-online-services.com/
"kj [SBS MVP]" <...@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>
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On Mon, 1 Jun 2009 20:25:46 -0700, "kj [SBS MVP]" <...@SPAMFREE.gmail.com
I yield to ya Dave. You're a greater pack-rat than I if you have 1GBs laying
around that still spin.
--
/kj
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On Tue, 2 Jun 2009 10:06:44 +1000, "SuperGumby [SBS MVP]" <...@your.nellie
I'm pretty sure most knew what you meant and Dave was just being picky (and
in a [very low] way humorous).
I do however remember putting together a RAID array to get a MASSIVE 1GB
storage.
--
SBS remote support services. (Fees apply)
mickm at mickmalloy dot dyndns dot org
"Leythos" <...@us.news.astraweb.com...
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On Mon, 1 Jun 2009 20:26:14 -0400, Leythos <...@rrohio.com
In article <...@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gblsays...
Yep, I did that 6 years ago with a Promise SX6000 IDE RAID card, was
fast as heck and you could hot swap standard IDE drives. Installed
6x250GB units for a large backup storage server.
--
You can't trust your best friends, your five senses, only the little
voice inside you that most civilians don't even hear -- Listen to that.
Trust yourself.
spam...@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)
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On Tue, 2 Jun 2009 10:42:12 +1000, "SuperGumby [SBS MVP]" <...@your.nellie
now you're the one getting confused about abbreviations.
I mean ~1GB. 7*~200MB drives.
--
SBS remote support services. (Fees apply)
mickm at mickmalloy dot dyndns dot org
"Leythos" <...@us.news.astraweb.com...
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On Mon, 1 Jun 2009 20:55:44 -0400, Leythos <...@rrohio.com
In article <...@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gblsays...
6 x 250GB, if they actually gave you 1024, would be 1.5TB, but when you
RAID-5 it, then format it, it's about 1 TB, so close enough to 1TB in a
6 drive x 250GB IDE system with 128MB cache RAID-5 Solution.
--
You can't trust your best friends, your five senses, only the little
voice inside you that most civilians don't even hear -- Listen to that.
Trust yourself.
spam...@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)
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On Tue, 2 Jun 2009 12:17:07 -0400, "Dave Nickason [SBS MVP]" <...@NOSPAM.frontiernet.net
That might have been low humor, but it was the best you were getting out of
me yesterday : -)
On the topic of drives, last night I discovered a failing/failed one in my
new WHS box (Dell T100). I still can't warm up to the idea of using
desktop-grade SATA drives in servers, but my PE830 storage server here at
the office has had 4 of those drives taking a pounding for the last 3 years
with no issues (three production servers do ShadowProtect backups to that
830). And I might as well mention that for the T100, Dell support had a new
drive on the way within about 10 minutes of online chat support, no
questions asked.
"SuperGumby [SBS MVP]" <...@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
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On Tue, 2 Jun 2009 10:41:50 -0700, "Russ - http://www.SBITS.Biz" <...@REMOVETHIS.sbits.biz
Here's a story for you.
I cornered a Seagate Tech Rep two years ago in a Intel Conference
and asked what the hardware difference between a SATAII 5,200RPM PC HD and a
Server HD.
He said well of course the Warranty on the Server Hardware is 5 years vs 3.
(I thought for a second it was a politician I was taking to.)
I said What about hardware.
He said, we do extensive testing on the Server hard drives.
(OK uh? please listen I said to myself.)
Since I wasn't getting any where with that answer I asked.
OK so the Server hard Drives have Better Bearings and better material for
heads and platters?
He paused for a long time said no it's just the same as a PC HD's.
So Then I asked, the real difference I suspect is the Firmware of a PC and a
Server hard drive
on that a PC will have more firmware redundancy with it's W/R
He was Very reluctant to say that, "Yes, that is correct."
And walked off quickly before I could ask him any more!
So According to the Seagate rep his means that there is no physical
difference between the PC drive and the Server
(since they all come off the production line)\
Difference is firmware!
Things that make you go hmm......
:)
Russ
--
Russell Grover - SBITS.Biz
Microsoft Gold Certified Partner
Microsoft Certified Small Business Specialist
World Wide 24hr SBS Remote Support - http://www.SBSrepair.com
Microsoft Online Services - http://www.microsoft-online-services.com/
"Dave Nickason [SBS MVP]" <...@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>
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On Tue, 2 Jun 2009 13:50:33 -0400, "Dave Nickason [SBS MVP]" <...@NOSPAM.frontiernet.net
Interesting and believable. I wonder if there's a difference with the
drives that are rated for 24x7, or if that's just a marketing/pricing thing
as well. It seems as if they were really "better" quality, Dell and other
server OEMs would use them instead of the desktop drives. I've had a fair
amount of drives fail over the years, and it seems like most of them were
higher-end drives (more SCSIs than SATA or IDE). Other than that, it's the
bell curve where they fail brand new or very old.
"Russ - http://www.SBITS.Biz" <...@microsoft.com...
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On Tue, 02 Jun 2009 20:39:28 +0100, Joe <...@jretrading.com
You might mean 'bathtub' curve. The extra inspection probably means a
longer burn-in, so an improvement at the left hand end of the curve.
The vast majority of drives will survive a system builder's warranty,
and any that don't will be replaced by the manufacturer. So the builder
has a few extra warranty failures that cost him some time. He'd rather
save a little on the cost of every single drive. Whether or not the
drive is more reliable for the user after the warranty has expired is of
no interest to him.
I'd hazard a guess that although PC and server drives might use the same
grade of hardware, they might well not have the same capacity e.g. a
500MB PC drive might become a 320GB server drive using the server
firmware. That way, more robust error-correction algorithms and more
spare blocks are available, which would allow the drive to remain
readable for longer than a PC drive after the troubles start. This gives
the admin a better chance of replacing the drive before any data is
lost, assuming of course that he pays attention to the warnings from the
SMART software. That would be more useful than simply extending the
statistical time before a sudden failure by using 'better' hardware.
--
Joe
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On Tue, 2 Jun 2009 16:07:08 -0700, "kj [SBS MVP]" <...@SPAMFREE.gmail.com
Can't say for Seagate but a former HD maker used to take the units with the
best test results and brand them with a higher class of device ratings.
Probably used a tighter firmware load for them too. But otherwise they were
the same products. For some reason, I thought a former employer of yours
Russ used to "grade" silicone based products similarly. Maybe they still do.
--
/kj
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On Mon, 1 Jun 2009 20:46:16 -0700, "kj [SBS MVP]" <...@SPAMFREE.gmail.com
Blame me for pickin the nit of the 1GB array. Dave just reminded me that if
one looks hard enough even those could be had. Of the intent of your reply I
just chimmed in agreement vs the NAS direction. I'm sure someday perhaps
even soon we'll be chuckling aboiut a misuse of TeraBytes instead of
PetaBytes.
--
/kj
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On Tue, 2 Jun 2009 08:25:27 -0400, Leythos <...@rrohio.com
In article <...@SPAMFREE.gmail.com says...
I still have an old 10MB RLL drive that worked in a IMB PC, and by IBM
PC, I mean that's the actual model/name of it. I 6Mhz computer with a
10MB RLL drive - what a beast. I can remember when Commodore came out
with the Floppy that provided more than 360k, it was far ahead of
anything on the home market at the time....
--
You can't trust your best friends, your five senses, only the little
voice inside you that most civilians don't even hear -- Listen to that.
Trust yourself.
spam...@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)
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On Tue, 2 Jun 2009 10:48:25 -0700, "Russ - http://www.SBITS.Biz" <...@REMOVETHIS.sbits.biz
Commodore 64
170kb single sided *Serial 5 1/4" drive
However you just cut a notch and you can use the other side.
Big problem with it however
the power supply died if you had the thing on 24/7 and playing like I did...
Load runner What a Addicting game!
Russ
--
Russell Grover - SBITS.Biz
Microsoft Gold Certified Partner
Microsoft Certified Small Business Specialist
World Wide 24hr SBS Remote Support - http://www.SBSrepair.com
Microsoft Online Services - http://www.microsoft-online-services.com/
"Leythos" <...@us.news.astraweb.com...
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On Tue, 2 Jun 2009 16:19:04 -0400, Leythos <...@rrohio.com
In article <...@REMOVETHIS.sbits.biz says...
The first one was the PET, it had a 8050 drive system that was a lot of
money if you could get one. The floppy could hold 1MB. The was something
that the other systems didn't offer at the time. This was before the
Commodore 64/Vic20 days.
The 8050 did Quad density for 1MB per disk, the 8250 did 2 disks with 2
heads each, and could hold 2MB per disk. The problem was the cheap IBM
disks were not reliable at the time for doing the 2MB on the Commodore.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_8250
--
You can't trust your best friends, your five senses, only the little
voice inside you that most civilians don't even hear -- Listen to that.
Trust yourself.
spam...@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)
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On Wed, 3 Jun 2009 00:29:19 -0700, "Russ - http://www.SBITS.Biz" <...@REMOVETHIS.sbits.biz
I wouldn't consider the PET as a home computer
because I think it was too expensive!
If memory serves me.
and the mass marketing was for the 64/VIC20
I did have a Timex/Sinclair also Chicklet keyboard
1K of memory with 16 K plug-in module Extra cost of course)
In college I was tempted to buy a Osborne Portable computer
5" BW CRT and the size of a small cooler for 2k
WOW I found a page on it
http://oldcomputers.net/osborne.html
Very Cool IMO
You want see the old ones this website is awesome
http://oldcomputers.net/
Russ
RUss
"Leythos" <...@us.news.astraweb.com...
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On Wed, 3 Jun 2009 07:51:31 -0400, Leythos <...@rrohio.com
In article <...@REMOVETHIS.sbits.biz says...
Pet 2001, was $800 with a advanced basic, monitor and tape drive and 4K
of memory, nothing came close at that time for the price - 1978/79 if
memory serves me correctly.
That was YEARS later and there were many personal computers on the
market. I had the portable 64, a real beast of a macine. Also had the
daisywheel printer too and the 1541 disk drives.
I had a Osborne, 3B1, Pet, Heathkit Z89, Commodore 64/Vic, Father had
the Commodore B128.
I still remember the LARGE floppies we used in the CPM machines :)
--
You can't trust your best friends, your five senses, only the little
voice inside you that most civilians don't even hear -- Listen to that.
Trust yourself.
spam...@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)
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On Wed, 3 Jun 2009 15:29:29 -0700, "Russ - http://www.SBITS.Biz" <...@REMOVETHIS.sbits.biz
I couldn't afford a $800 Computer back then..
I was just out of High school :)
And saving money for college :)
Russ
--
Russell Grover - SBITS.Biz
Microsoft Gold Certified Partner
Microsoft Certified Small Business Specialist
World Wide 24hr SBS Remote Support - http://www.SBSrepair.com
Microsoft Online Services - http://www.microsoft-online-services.com/
"Leythos" <...@us.news.astraweb.com...
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