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On Sun, 28 Jun 2009 14:33:48 -0700, "Ken Blake, MVP" <...@this.is.an.invalid.domain
On Sun, 28 Jun 2009 14:11:01 -0700, riogrande
<...@discussions.microsoft.com
Defrag rearranges what's on the drive. It wouldn't save any space
there.
If you "blow away" an update or patch, you would no longer have the
update or patch.
14GB is very much on the small side.
Yes, you can use Partition Magic, or some similar program. Partition
Magic is the best-known such program, but there are shareware/freeware
alternatives. One such program is BootIt Next Generation. It's
shareware, but comes with a free 30-day trial, so you should be able
to do what you want within that 30 days. I haven't used it myself
(because I've never needed to use *any* such program), but it comes
highly recommended by several other MVPs here.
But if it were me, instead of buying Partition Magic ($63 at
Amazon.com), I would buy and install a second drive; since you say
"things keep 'growing.' " you'll undoubtedly need it soon anyway. You
can get a 250GB drive for around the same price. It would come with
cloning software, and you could clone your C: drive to it, then make
it C:
That would give you
C: - 250GB
D: - 14GB
E: - the rest of your original drive.
--
Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP - Windows Desktop Experience
Please Reply to the Newsgroup
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On Sun, 28 Jun 2009 23:55:45 +0200, "Pegasus [MVP]" <...@microsoft.com
"riogrande" <...@microsoft.com...
If this is a desktop PC then installing a second disk would be the simplest
solution.
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On Sun, 28 Jun 2009 20:03:36 -0700, Doum <...@domain.net
=?Utf-8?B?cmlvZ3JhbmRl?= <...@microsoft.com:
Do you have a backup procedure?
If it was me, I would get an external USB hard drive (500 GB~1 TB) and a
program like Acronis True Image or Norton Ghost (I use both on different
computers and they both work OK). I would make an image of C and another
of D on the external hard drive.
Then I would boot with my Windows CD and repartition the internal hard
drive with the Windows installation program. I would make C 40 GB and the
rest of the drive would be D. I would abort the installation of Windows
after C and D are formatted.
I would then reboot with the Acronis True Image or Ghost CD and restore
the images made previously from the external HD.
Everything should be done in a couple of hours, creating the backup
images being the longest.
Once everything is back and running, you can backup everything may be
once a week on the external HD, the procedure can be automated.
HTH
Doum
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On Sun, 28 Jun 2009 20:19:49 -0500, "Shenan Stanley" <...@gmail.com
A new drive - cloning to it and increasing the size of the C partition is
likely your best bet. Followed by the third-party partition editing
applications (like Partition Magic.)
You can try to free up space...
If you are comfortable with the stability of your system, you can delete the
uninstall files for the patches that Windows XP has installed...
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/spack.htm
( Particularly of interest here - #4 )
( Alternative: http://www.dougknox.com/xp/utils/xp_hotfix_backup.htm )
You can run Disk Cleanup - built into Windows XP - to erase all but your
latest restore point and cleanup even more "loose files"..
How to use Disk Cleanup
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/310312
You can turn off hibernation if it is on and you don't use it..
When you hibernate your computer, Windows saves the contents of the system's
memory to the hiberfil.sys file. As a result, the size of the hiberfil.sys
file will always equal the amount of physical memory in your system. If you
don't use the hibernate feature and want to recapture the space that Windows
uses for the hiberfil.sys file, perform the following steps:
- Start the Control Panel Power Options applet (go to Start, Settings,
Control Panel, and click Power Options).
- Select the Hibernate tab, clear the "Enable hibernation" check box, then
click OK; although you might think otherwise, selecting Never under the
"System hibernates" option on the Power Schemes tab doesn't delete the
hiberfil.sys file.
- Windows will remove the "System hibernates" option from the Power Schemes
tab and delete the hiberfil.sys file.
You can control how much space your System Restore can use...
1. Click Start, right-click My Computer, and then click Properties.
2. Click the System Restore tab.
3. Highlight one of your drives (or C: if you only have one) and click on
the "Settings" button.
4. Change the percentage of disk space you wish to allow.. I suggest moving
the slider until you have just about 1GB (1024MB or close to that...)
5. Click OK.. Then Click OK again.
You can control how much space your Temporary Internet Files can utilize...
Empty your Temporary Internet Files and shrink the size it stores to a
size between 64MB and 128MB..
- Open ONE copy of Internet Explorer.
- Select TOOLS -- Under the General tab in the "Temporary Internet Files" section, do the
following:
- Click on "Delete Cookies" (click OK)
- Click on "Settings" and change the "Amount of disk space to use:" to
something between 64MB and 128MB. (It may be MUCH larger right
now.)
- Click OK.
- Click on "Delete Files" and select to "Delete all offline contents"
(the checkbox) and click OK. (If you had a LOT, this could take 2-10
minutes or more.)
- Once it is done, click OK, close Internet Explorer, re-open Internet
Explorer.
You can use an application that scans your system for log files and
temporary files and use that to get rid of those:
Ccleaner (Free!)
http://www.ccleaner.com/
Other ways to free up space..
SequoiaView
http://www.win.tue.nl/sequoiaview/
JDiskReport
http://www.jgoodies.com/freeware/jdiskreport/index.html
Those can help you visually discover where all the space is being used.
In the end - a standard Windows XP installation with all sorts of extras
will not likely be above about 4.5GB to 9GB in size. If you have more space
than that (likely do on a modern machine) and most of it seems to be used -
likely you need to move *your stuff* off and/or find a better way to manage
it.
--
Shenan Stanley
MS-MVP
--
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
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On Mon, 29 Jun 2009 09:11:11 +0100, "Gerry" <...@nospam.com
Shenan
80 gb free disk space is some way from being short of disk space!
--
Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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On Sun, 28 Jun 2009 23:53:21 +0100, "Gerry" <...@nospam.com
You can create more free space in C by
carrying any of the measures suggested below.
The default allocation to System Restore is 12% on your C partition
which is over generous. I would reduce it to 700 mb. Right click your My
Computer icon on the Desktop and select System Restore. Place the cursor
on your C drive select Settings but this time find the slider and drag
it to the left until it reads 700 mb and exit. When you get to the
Settings screen click on Apply and OK and exit.
A default setting which could be wasteful is that for temporary internet
files, especially if you do not store offline copies on disk. The
default allocation is 3% of drive. Depending on your attitude to offline
copies you could reduce this to 1% or 2%. In Internet Explorer select
Tools, Internet Options, General, Temporary Internet Files, Settings to
make the change. At the same time look at the number of days history is
held.
The default allocation for the Recycle Bin is 10 % of drive. Change to
5%, which should be sufficient. In Windows Explorer place the cursor
on your Recycle Bin, right click and select Properties, Global and
move the slider from 10% to 5%. However, try to avoid letting it get
too full as if it is full and you delete a file by mistake it will
bypass the Recycle Bin and be gone for ever.
If your drive is formatted as NTFS another potential gain arises with
your operating system on your C drive. In the Windows Directory of
your C partition you will have some Uninstall folders in your Windows
folder typically: $NtServicePackUninstall$ and $NtUninstallKB282010$
etc. These files may be compressed or not compressed. If compressed
the text of the folder name appears in blue characters. If not
compressed you can compress them. Right click on each folder and
select Properties, General, Advanced and check the box before Compress
contents to save Disk Space. On the General Tab you can see the amount
gained by deducting the size on disk from the size. Folder
compression is only an option on a NTFS formatted drive / partition.
Select Start, All Programs, Accessories, System Tools, System
Information, Tools, Dr Watson and verify that the box before "Append to
existing log" is NOT checked. This means the next time the log is
written it will overwrite rather than add to the existing file.
You can generate more space in the system partition by relocation of
folders.
For Temporary Internet Files select Start, Control Panel, Internet
Options, Temporary Internet Files. Settings, Move Folder.
To move the Outlook Express Store Folder select in Outlook Express
Tools, Options, Maintenance, Store Folder, Change.
http://www.tomsterdam.com/insideoe/files/store.htm
How to Change the Default Location of the My Documents Folder:
http://support.microsoft.com/?id=310147
You may also need to change Default File locations in the Microsoft
Office programmes you choose to move the My Documents folder. For Word
go to Tools, Options, File Locations, highlight Documents, click on
Modify and change file path. For Excel go to Tools, Options, General
and change default file path.
My Documents is one of a number of system created Special Folders
including My Pictures and My Music. These can more easily be relocated
using TweakUi. Download TweakUI, one of the MS powertoys, from here:
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/pro/downloads/powertoys.asp
In TweakUi select My Computer, Special Folders. You can scroll down to
see the full list of Special Folders to the left of the Change
Location button.
You can move programmes but to do this you have to uninstall and
reinstall.
Select Start, All Programs, accessories, System Tools, Disk CleanUp,
More Options, System Restore and remove all but the latest System
Restore point. Run Disk Defragmenter
--
Hope this helps.
Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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On Sun, 28 Jun 2009 20:17:16 -0400, "Mike Hall - MVP" <...@mvps.org
"Gerry" <...@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
Gerry
XP needs 20-25gb.. crippling the ability to store restore points is not a
particularly good idea..
--
Mike Hall - MVP Windows Experience
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/
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On Mon, 29 Jun 2009 18:32:49 +0200, Alias <...@OUTgmail.com
LOL! And this joker calls himself an MVP. Too funny! I've been running
an XP machine with 16 GB for C and 144 for D with no problems for over
six years now. My system restore has been reduced to 1GB and works
perfectly.
Alias
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On Mon, 29 Jun 2009 09:08:43 +0100, "Gerry" <...@nospam.com
Mike
You're mistaken on several counts.
XP does not need 20-25gb. You are confusing the requirements of XP plus
pagefile plus programmes plus default folders like My Documents etc with
the requirements of the operating system. As long as there is free disk
space elsewhere you can run a problem free computer with much less than
20 gb. All that is needed is organisation. On this computer the used
space on C, including the pagefile, is 8.3 gb. It could be a lot less.
Using a computer on a daily basis makes it pointless retaining restore
points for more than 14 days. I regularly use Disk Cleanup to remove all
but the latest restore point. Restore points are most useful undoing a
change that has gone wrong. You do that within a day or two.
How does limiting space allocated to storing unnecessary historic
restore points amount to crippling System Restore? Your statement is
simply untrue! I was going to say gross exaggeration but that
understates your position.
Disk space utilisation and system restore are topics I have studied in
some depth over 10 years.
--
Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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On Mon, 29 Jun 2009 10:25:20 +0200, "Pegasus [MVP]" <...@microsoft.com
"Gerry" <...@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
A "vanilla" installation of Windows XP requires about 6 GBytes. This does
not allow for various applications, service packs, Windows updates and the
many Windows Uninstall folders. To accommodate them the OP needs 15 GBytes
for the system partition. 20 GBytes would be a more comfortable value so
that he has room to accommodate his various programs and updates - assuming
all the time that he keeps all user files on a different partition.
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On Mon, 29 Jun 2009 10:28:00 +0100, "Gerry" <...@nospam.com
Pegasus
The proof of the pudding is in the eating. 8.3 gb = 10 gb! It could be a
lot less. It depends on whether or not you accept that certain system
defaults are over generous and where the pagefile is located. Programmes
and the pagefile can be accommodated elsewhere but mine aren't!
--
Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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On Mon, 29 Jun 2009 12:34:05 +0100, "Jon" <-
I've found that a vanilla installation, with SP3 and updates is much lower than that - more like
3GBytes. If you have lots of RAM it climbs due to the pagefile and (if enabled) the hibernation
file. I know people who've had XP for years, and still use less than 8GBytes on their hard drive.
"Pegasus [MVP]" <...@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
"Gerry" <...@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
A "vanilla" installation of Windows XP requires about 6 GBytes. This does
not allow for various applications, service packs, Windows updates and the
many Windows Uninstall folders. To accommodate them the OP needs 15 GBytes
for the system partition. 20 GBytes would be a more comfortable value so
that he has room to accommodate his various programs and updates - assuming
all the time that he keeps all user files on a different partition.
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On Mon, 29 Jun 2009 13:55:11 +0200, "Pegasus [MVP]" <...@microsoft.com
"Jon" <-
I know the same people too. They keep complaining about the lack of space on
their system drive and ask in this newsgroup what files they could delete to
create some elbowroom. Administrators with lots of time at their hands love
them because they absorb a lot of support time, thus creating the impression
that the admin is very, very busy. As a rough indication, my Windows folder
consumes 4.9 GBytes, which includes all automatic updates and uninstall
files. This leaves 3.1 GBytes for the Program Files folder, which is fine if
you restrict yourself to using notepad.exe as a word processor and calc.exe
as a spreadsheet.
Seeing that the cost of 1 GByte of disk space is less than $1.00, I wonder
why anyone would want to run his system with an 8 GByte system partition.
Just $10.00 would bump it up to 18 GBytes, which is not generous but at
least reasonable.
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On Mon, 29 Jun 2009 14:39:07 +0100, "Gerry" <...@nospam.com
Pegasus
Trying to escape by going off topic <Gfree disk space in a second partition on the drive! You have shares in
one or more companies manufacturing hard drives and or third party
partition managers <G
--
Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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On Mon, 29 Jun 2009 12:16:47 -0600, "Bill in Co." <...@earthlink.net
But NOT if you want to have the Program Files, My Documents, pagefile, etc,
all together on the C: partition, which is the most sensible approach
(including for backups, etc). It makes little sense to store those
fundamental directories on another partition. (But video files?? Sure.
But not this stuff). This way when you image and/or restore your drive,
you have it ALL backed up together, just as it should be.
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On Mon, 29 Jun 2009 11:31:26 -0700, "Ken Blake, MVP" <...@this.is.an.invalid.domain
On Mon, 29 Jun 2009 12:16:47 -0600, "Bill in Co."
<...@earthlink.net
Essentially there are two approaches to backup:
1. Cloning or imaging the entire drive.
2. Backing up only the data files you have created.
In my view, for those people who are not dual-booting, how you
partition should depend on which backup scheme you use. If you clone
or image the entire drive, it's usually best to have a single
partition. If you just backup data, *not* having My Documents on C:
usually makes the backup simpler and easier, so you can simply backup
all of D:.
--
Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP - Windows Desktop Experience
Please Reply to the Newsgroup
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On Mon, 29 Jun 2009 12:59:41 -0600, "Bill in Co." <...@earthlink.net
For me, I see little practical use and safety in *just* backing up the data,
and just the data alone. That's just too much of a long shot in case
something - anything - goes wrong with the system. (It's better than NO
backup, but not by much :-).
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On Mon, 29 Jun 2009 14:33:48 -0700, "Ken Blake, MVP" <...@this.is.an.invalid.domain
On Mon, 29 Jun 2009 12:59:41 -0600, "Bill in Co."
<...@earthlink.net
It's not my choice either, but it is the choice of *many* people. They
reason that they can easily and quickly reinstall the operating system
and their programs. If they don't have a lot of programs installed and
not a lot of operating system customization, they could be right about
its being quick and easy.
--
Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP - Windows Desktop Experience
Please Reply to the Newsgroup
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On Mon, 29 Jun 2009 21:00:45 +0100, "Gerry" <...@nospam.com
Bill
Separation of the operating system and program files is a perfectly
reasonable arrangement. It just does not suit everybody. Moving program
files was not something I was advocating in this instance as I doubt it
is necessary.
--
Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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On Mon, 29 Jun 2009 19:37:46 -0400, "Mike Hall - MVP" <...@mvps.org
"Gerry" <...@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
Gerry
Many applications place files into the Windows folder and user account
folders. The practice of separating programs and the operating system is for
the most part a useless exercise, as all applications will have to be
re-installed again in the event of a major OS crash..
--
Mike Hall - MVP Windows Experience
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/
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On Mon, 29 Jun 2009 20:58:15 -0600, "Bill in Co." <...@earthlink.net
Exactly. That's why it makes no sense to me to even try to separate them
out to another partition, because in reality, they are inextricably linked
to the windows partition.
The only exception perhaps being for those who just want to back up their
data. But that's an incomplete "backup" methodology. But as Ken pointed
out, if they have no problem with the idea of reinstalling windows and their
programs all over again, should the need arise, so be it. (I think I would
rather cross the Sahara desert, than go through ALL that again - the time
invested would be inordinate).
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On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 07:37:16 -0700, "Ken Blake, MVP" <...@this.is.an.invalid.domain
On Mon, 29 Jun 2009 20:58:15 -0600, "Bill in Co."
<...@earthlink.net
I'm with you entirely on that point.
Just to clarify my position a little further: I wouldn't want to go
through all that again either, for the same reason. My only point is
that although you and I appear to in much the same situation with
regard to this, not everyone is.
--
Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP - Windows Desktop Experience
Please Reply to the Newsgroup
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On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 07:30:22 +0100, "Gerry" <...@nospam.com
Mike
I agree with what you say except that I recently encountered a situation
with one programme where reinstallation was not necessary. This runs
contrary to the normal rule but what happened with this programme is not
unique as I subsequently found it when it was discussed in these
newsgroups.
--
Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 09:13:32 -0400, "Mike Hall - MVP" <...@mvps.org
"Gerry" <...@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
I have a program which can be moved. It is called 'Wintach' and was produced
way back in the days of Win 95. Other than one or two other utilities,
everything else I have needs to be re-installed in the event of a total OS
crash.
--
Mike Hall - MVP Windows Experience
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/
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On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 07:41:48 -0700, "Ken Blake, MVP" <...@this.is.an.invalid.domain
On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 07:30:22 +0100, "Gerry" <...@nospam.com
Gerry, let me make one small point here. Yes, what you describe is not
unique, but it's fairly rare. It mostly happens only with programs
that are simple and small.
As I've said here numbers of times, "if you reinstall Windows, you
will have to reinstall all your programs. Except for an occasional
very small simple program, all programs have entries referring to them
in the registry (as well as elsewhere). If you reinstall Windows, all
those entries are lost, and the program won't work."
--
Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP - Windows Desktop Experience
Please Reply to the Newsgroup
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On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 16:36:12 +0100, "Gerry" <...@nospam.com
Ken
They are uncommon but the example I encountered was extremely helpful.
The point being they go against generally accepted rules so, whenever
stating a rule, never say it always applies. The exception can make you
look a fool.
--
Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 13:09:32 -0300, John John - MVP <...@nbnet.nb.ca
Of course there has to exceptions or else there would be no rules...
John
>
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On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 10:34:30 -0700, "Ken Blake, MVP" <...@this.is.an.invalid.domain
On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 16:36:12 +0100, "Gerry" <...@nospam.com
Yes, I always say there are exceptions (see my quote below).
But my point is that the exceptions are so rare that they can
essentially be ignored. If you reinstall Windows, you have to
reinstall almost all your programs. Although if you reinstall all of
them, you might install one or two you didn't have to, it hardly pays
to worry about it. So I recommend just installing them all.
--
Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP - Windows Desktop Experience
Please Reply to the Newsgroup
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On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 11:03:40 -0700, "Terry R." <...@NOSPAMpobox.com
The date and time was Tuesday, June 30, 2009 10:34:30 AM, and on a whim,
Ken Blake, MVP pounded out on the keyboard:
They are not that rare. I have a folder with 24 programs (quite a few
utilities) that don't need reinstalling.
When I set up my partition of Win7, I created a shortcut to Firefox and
Thunderbird from the shared E: partition where all this workstations
programs are installed. Both launched without installing. I had to
point the TB profiles.ini file to the profile located on D:, and point
FF to the profile on D: also, but that's it. My CD/DVD labeling
software doesn't require reinstalling. My calendar program doesn't
require reinstalling. My note keeping program doesn't require reinstalling.
Only the largest of programs, WordPerfect, Lotus 123, and Studio
Ultimate required it so far. I'm sure Acronis will also, but I use
batch scripts for daily backup, so no reinstalling there either.
So a user needs to actually test a program to know for sure. No one can
just state, "you have to reinstall almost all your programs...". And
for those who never do it and just think that's the way it is, you need
to do testing yourself.
Terry R.
--
Anti-spam measures are included in my email address.
Delete NOSPAM from the email address after clicking Reply.
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On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:03:48 -0700, "Ken Blake, MVP" <...@this.is.an.invalid.domain
On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 11:03:40 -0700, "Terry R." <...@NOSPAMpobox.comwrote:
In my experience they are very rare. As a result, doing any kind of
backup of your programs so you will still have them if you reinstall
Windows is foolhardy. You will have to reinstall most of your
programs, so restoring backups is of next to no use.
--
Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP - Windows Desktop Experience
Please Reply to the Newsgroup
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On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:31:53 -0700, "Terry R." <...@NOSPAMpobox.com
The date and time was Tuesday, June 30, 2009 12:03:48 PM, and on a whim,
Ken Blake, MVP pounded out on the keyboard:
Since I have 6 OS's on this workstation, I test this and do it quite
frequently. As I also stated, in the newly installed Win7 partition, I
am using a browser, email client, calendaring software, and note taking
software and didn't have to install ONE of them. Just created shortcuts
from the app program folder on my Programs drive.
I do backup my Programs partition, every time I backup my OS partitions,
and it is far from "foolhardy".
Like I said, it is up to a user to determine whether or not their
programs will run without reinstallation. It is poor advice IMO for
anyone to make blanket statements like that without knowing what
software that person is using.
I was sharing my experience with you so you now know they are not that
rare. And you cannot state "most" to me. ;-)
Of course if someone uses all MS software, ALL bets are off!
Terry R.
--
Anti-spam measures are included in my email address.
Delete NOSPAM from the email address after clicking Reply.
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On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 13:10:38 -0700, "Ken Blake, MVP" <...@this.is.an.invalid.domain
On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:31:53 -0700, "Terry R." <...@NOSPAMpobox.comwrote:
I completely disagree with you on this, but this is the end of the
thread as far as I'm concerned. Our experience is completely
different, but I don't want to keep repeating myself.
--
Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP - Windows Desktop Experience
Please Reply to the Newsgroup
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On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 16:19:59 -0500, "Shenan Stanley" <...@gmail.com
*You/your situation* is rare. ;-)
While you may have a half-dozen or a dozen or so friends that do something
like you have there (6 OSes on a workstation, multiboot, re-installing on a
whim, etc) - you'll pass more people in a crowded restaurant that would have
no idea what it is you are talking about and their installed programs (if
they have any) are likely of the type that would need to be reinstalled if
they formatted and re-installed the OS.
In other words - your case may not be rare in a certain circle - but in an
overall population - it would be rare. ;-) So yes - in the larger picture -
*most* is more accurate, along with the rarity of the situation you have (24
applications that do not require re-installation if you format the hard disk
drive and install the OS (Windows XP) fresh.)
--
Shenan Stanley
MS-MVP
--
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
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On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 15:13:05 -0700, "Terry R." <...@NOSPAMpobox.com
The date and time was Tuesday, June 30, 2009 2:19:59 PM, and on a whim,
Shenan Stanley pounded out on the keyboard:
Hi Shenan,
I wasn't talking about my "case", because I know my workstation is far
from the norm.
Ken said programs that didn't need reinstalling were rare. I pointed
out that wasn't the case at all. While there is a lot of software that
requires it, there appears to be a lot that doesn't, as I mentioned with
Firefox and Thunderbird just being a couple I recently discovered, as
registry values are written on first launch. Did you know that? I
didn't either until I tried it a couple weeks ago.
Sure, it generally is recommended to have your program discs available
when installing clean. The point is not to say a program requires
reinstalling until you've tested it yourself or know what software the
user owns. I've been very successful with some clients who moved to a
new computer and didn't have installation discs for their programs.
Some required a lot of registry searches and exports, but it still can
be done. And if the software company is no longer around, replacement
discs may not even be available.
Terry R.
--
Anti-spam measures are included in my email address.
Delete NOSPAM from the email address after clicking Reply.
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On Mon, 29 Jun 2009 08:58:37 -0400, "Mike Hall - MVP" <...@mvps.org
"Gerry" <...@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
Gerry
The OP has ONE drive so the pagefile stays where it is..
There is little point in installing programs on a second drive because they
will need to be reinstalled in the event of a major crash anyway..
Reducing the capacity of XP to create minidumps or be able to defrag is
ridiculous when there is 80gb free on the second partition.
With that amount of space doing nothing, why make it difficult for XP or the
user?
Keep it simple is the best way for the majority of users..
--
Mike Hall - MVP Windows Experience
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/
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On Mon, 29 Jun 2009 15:30:44 +0100, "Gerry" <...@nospam.com
Mike
Relies inline.
Snipped
I have not suggested moving the pagefile!
I have not suggested installing programmes on a second drive. At a pinch
this user could move a program to the second partition but I doubt that
is necessary.
I have not suggested moving the pagefile!
How am I making it difficult for XP or the user? The suggestions I made
are simple to implement and overcome the problem without the need to
learn how to use third party tools or reinstall Windows XP.
We agree on that.
--
Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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On Mon, 29 Jun 2009 12:23:51 -0400, "Mike Hall - MVP" <...@mvps.org
"Gerry" <...@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
I am surprised that you didn't suggest manually resizing the pagefile,
especially as it would have more effect than what you suggested. At some
point, and it may as well be now, the OP is going to have to increase the
size of the primary partition or face the same problems a little further
down the road..
--
Mike Hall - MVP Windows Experience
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/
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On Mon, 29 Jun 2009 17:43:54 +0100, "Gerry" <...@nospam.com
Why Mike? How would resizing the pagefile help this user?
Are you expecting Microsoft to issue a Windows XP SP4 to dramatically
increase the disk space required? I can not see how you reach your
pessimistic conclusions.
--
Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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On Mon, 29 Jun 2009 19:23:51 -0400, "Mike Hall - MVP" <...@mvps.org
"Gerry" <...@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
Resizing the page file would be the best way to get enough free space such
that utilities would work, that and what I have suggested directly to the
OP.
Reducing the system restore space could take out valuable restore points
which the OP may well need in the very near future..
I will ignore the other statement that you made. It deserves no response.
--
Mike Hall - MVP Windows Experience
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/
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On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 07:23:05 +0100, "Gerry" <...@nospam.com
Mike
Replies inline
That is your opinion. From my point of view it is unneccesary.
You only need a single restore point before the problem arose not every
Tom , Dick or Harry back to time immemorial! In reality many users have
great difficulties using System Restore. Many users have abandoned
System Restore for other backup software.
--
Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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On Wed, 01 Jul 2009 09:27:51 -0700, Bill Sharpe <...@adelphia.net
System restore is NOT backup software. Users who think this way are in
for a rude awakening.
Bill
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On Wed, 1 Jul 2009 17:52:29 +0100, "Gerry" <...@nospam.com
Bill
That's yesterday's news if they have moved on.
--
Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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On Wed, 1 Jul 2009 12:06:30 -0500, "Unknown" <...@unknown.kom
Of course you only need one restore point------but which one?
"Gerry" <...@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
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On Sun, 28 Jun 2009 22:32:23 +0100, "Tim Meddick" <...@gawab.com
Have you tried running the automatic 'disk cleanup wizard'?
Type :
cleanmgr.exe
...in to the "Run" box on your 'Start Menu' to start it.
Also, you could download and run the utility 'WinDirStat' that displays
all your files on the drive as couloured boxes sized according to how
much space they use up on the drive.
So you can tell-at-a-glance how and where all the space has gone on a
drive or partition.
You can download 'WinDirStat' from :
http://kent.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/windirstat/windirstat1_1_2_setup.exe
Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London. :-)
"riogrande" <...@microsoft.com...
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On Sun, 28 Jun 2009 17:50:01 -0700, riogrande <...@discussions.microsoft.com
Thanks Tim,
disk cleanup not yielding anything of value....xp automatically asking me if
I wanted to run it many times in the last weeks as space got low.
downloaded the WinDirStat and will see if that produces any idea of what I
could "blow away"......yet tbd.
Thanks...
>
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On Mon, 29 Jun 2009 12:47:48 -0400, "Mike Hall - MVP" <...@mvps.org
"riogrande" <...@microsoft.com...
You may be able to run Easeus without having to uninstall any programs, but
do the Quicken backup anyway.
When you first run Easeus:
Resize the second partition such that you create 10gb or thereabouts of free
space. Apply the change.
The free space will end up on the wrong side of the newly size second
partition.
So, highlight the second partition and click on 'resize/move'. This will
allow you to slide the second partition graphic to the far right. Apply the
change.
The unallocated space will now be at the end of the primary partition.
Now highlight the primary partition and click on resize/move. Use the
controls to take up all of the unallocated space.
Job done..
--
Mike Hall - MVP Windows Experience
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/
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On Mon, 29 Jun 2009 12:20:43 -0400, "Mike Hall - MVP" <...@mvps.org
"riogrande" <...@microsoft.com...
Backup your Quicken files to an external location, maybe a CD. Do the same
with any other application for which you have installation media.
Now uninstall the applications..
Download and run Easeus free version. Use it to extend your primary boot
partition to 25gb..
When done, re-install Quicken and anything else you uninstalled earlier, and
then restore your Quicken account from the backup you made..
--
Mike Hall - MVP Windows Experience
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/
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On Mon, 29 Jun 2009 17:59:07 +0100, "Gerry" <...@nospam.com
Mike
Please explain why? You engage in a long debate. You fail to make your
case and then out of frustration make a recommendation without
explaining the risks of what you propose!
--
Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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On Mon, 29 Jun 2009 19:34:08 -0400, "Mike Hall - MVP" <...@mvps.org
"Gerry" <...@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
The risks of leaving the computer the way that it is outweigh the risks of
using Easeus. I have already suggested to the OP that some applications are
removed and any pertinent data to them is backed up prior to using Easeus.
I did NOT make a suggestion out of frustration, but I may get a little
frustrated if every time that I write anything, you follow up with arguing
the points.
--
Mike Hall - MVP Windows Experience
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/
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On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 08:05:13 +0100, "Gerry" <...@nospam.com
Mike
Replies inline
My proposals contained a number of changes so no one was suggesting
"leaving the computer the way that it is"! The risks to be compared are
those arising from my proposals and your solution. Changing a partition
size is far riskier than anything I have suggested, especially given
that you are suggesting software the OP has most likely no previous
experience of using.
You only mentioned Quicken. How do you know what other data is on the
computer to be lost?
You started this debate by your ill considered remarks regarding my
original advice to the OP seeking help. Did you seriously expect your
intervention to go unchallenged? There are occasions when resizing the
partition would be appropriate but based on the information we have this
is not one. It is a choice the OP has. You could have avoided this
confrontation had you chosen to let the OP make their choice based on
the responses received.
--
Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 09:10:08 -0400, "Mike Hall - MVP" <...@mvps.org
"Gerry" <...@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
Gerry
They were not ill considered at all. The OP has just 155mb free space on a
14gb partition. It is obviously not large enough and needs to be extended.
There is 80gb free elsewhere on the drive
Your suggestions would only free up a small amount of space which would soon
be lost again if anything else was installed. It is best to keep 30% of a
drive free if best performance is to be had. The ONLY way to do this is to
extend the partition.
The OP has already moved 'photos etc' to the D drive and still there is not
enough free space. There is a very good chance that important data other
than Quicken has already been moved.
This is one of the most appropriate 'repartition' cases I have seen in a
while. I have no idea why you think the opposite.
--
Mike Hall - MVP Windows Experience
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/
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On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 16:11:45 +0100, "Gerry" <...@nospam.com
Mike
Every time you reply you dig yourself in deeper.
"Your suggestions would only free up a small amount of space which would
soon be lost again if anything else was installed. " How can you
possibly know that?
It is quite possible that my suggestions can achieve an increase in free
disk space of 4.2 gb or 30% of the partition. If they only achieve 25%,
the problem will be resolved because the growth in used space will occur
in future mainly on D and not C. You proposal just wastes space in an
enlarged C partition.
Your comments were ill considered because you do not understand how to
get the most of limited space on C . They were uninvited, misguided and
unhelpful.
--
Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 19:20:20 -0400, "Mike Hall - MVP" <...@mvps.org
"Gerry" <...@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
Gerry
Recycle Bin allocates 10% of partition space by default. On a 14gb
partition, that is not exactly a huge amount of space. Reducing it by half
will free up approximately 625mb..
Restore points have a 12% allocation, so the free space gained will not be
much more than was gained by reducing Recycle Bin..
Add the newly freed up space to what is already free and there still isn't
enough free space to defrag on a 14gb partition..
Removing the update uninstall files releases a small amount of space and is
a desperate measure in real terms..
The consequences of what you suggested:
If the OP does decide to delete a bunch of stuff and it exceeds what is now
a very small recycle bin, the overflow will be lost forever..
If the OP cuts down System Restore space, it will not take much to displace
existing restore points which may or may not be useful in the event of a
problem. In your estimation, only one is required, but not everybody thinks
that way.
So the ability to recover files from Recycle bin has been compromised, as
has the ability to have a choice of restore points, and for what? There
still will not be enough free space to even defrag with any certainty.
The OP has already moved photos etc out of MY DOCUMENTS, so there may not be
too much of a saving to be made by moving what is left.
Temporary Internet file space is also a percentage of the partition size, so
the saving will again most likely be small as the partition size is only
14gb.
I have no idea why you think that a possible 4.2gb can be saved on the OP's
computer
In the meantime, there is 80gb free space on the second partition of which,
by use of a FREE and very stable partition manager, part could be allocated
to the Boot partition and solve the OPs problem for a considerable while.
I see that you gave another person exactly the same advice and in a scenario
where no partition or drive size info was made public. I stick to the view
that your suggestions are only temporary until such time as more space can
be allocated from a second partition, or a larger hard drive purchased in
the event that the entire drive is full, especially where some remedial work
has been done and there still is nothing like enough free space available.
During the course of this discussion, I have been chopping up and rejoining
partitions using Easeus on a seven year old XP machine without incident. I
would be interested to know what you have against partition managers,
especially modern ones.
--
Mike Hall - MVP Windows Experience
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/
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On Wed, 1 Jul 2009 08:03:40 +0100, "Gerry" <...@nospam.com
Mike
Reduce Recycle Bin 5%
Reduce System Restore 7%
Relocate Temporary Internet Files 3%
NTFS compression uninstall folders 3% plus
Sub total
18% plus
The remainder are difficult to estimate not knowing enough about how the
computer is used
Relocate Outlook Express Store 0% to 7%
Relocate My Documents Cannot be calculated
Relocate My Music Cannot be calculated
The last three headings can contribute a little or a lot. Without
knowing more about the programmes being used it is difficult to quantify
the precise areas and potential for savings. The user could be using
backup software and leaving the backup on C.
To be using 14 gb means either a lot of programmes or some are taking up
a lot of space. This suggests a review of programmes to see whether any
are likely to be required in the future might be productive. A review
might also reveal a few resource hungry programmes where there are
better substitutes. An example, which readily comes to mind, is Foxit
for Adobe Acrobat Reader -better PDF reader performance with significant
disk space savings.
If you are sitting at the target computer it does not take long to
assess the potential for savings. The OP can readily do that by looking
at each of my suggestions in turn and it does not take a lot of time.
"Add the newly freed up space to what is already free and there still
isn't enough free space to defrag on a 14gb partition."
This statement is disproved above. You are also basing your argument on
the 15% "rule" and it is not rocket science to defragment where there is
less. You should also note that relocating reduces fragmentation in the
C partition so it needs to be done less often.
"If the OP does decide to delete a bunch of stuff and it exceeds what
is now a very small recycle bin, the overflow will be lost forever."
The "stuff" likely to be deleted has been relocated elsewhere. How long
do you need to keep your trash?
Continuing inline.
This was not suggested. Read the suggestion again. It saves 420 mb here.
Not my idea of a small amount of space!
My suggestion does not limit retention of restore points to one. Do you
ever throw away your junk?
Disproved above!
Speculation on your part!
Is 400 mb a small saving?
The maximum possible.
Not a market leader!
Without knowing the context how do you expect me to respond?
All things in life are temporary. That is life. Why will it be necessary
to allocate more space from the second partition? If the entire drive is
full the sizing of partitions ceases to have any relevance so your point
is irrelevant.
Are you comparing your computer skills to those typically seeking help
here? I would not expect a typical user to achieve the standard I would
expect you to achieve. Just because you have made changes without
incident does not mean others will have the same outcome.
I am not against Partition Managers. On the contrary I prefer
partitioned to non-partitioned disks. I see the advantages, whereas
others prefer not to partition.
--
Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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On Wed, 1 Jul 2009 10:28:22 -0400, "Mike Hall - MVP" <...@mvps.org
Gerry
Fit a second drive in your computer, install Easeus, and try it out for
yourself. The free version does 32bit.
--
Mike Hall - MVP Windows Experience
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/
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On Wed, 1 Jul 2009 15:47:16 +0100, "Gerry" <...@nospam.com
Mike
I already have two internal drives.
--
Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> for yourself. The free version does 32bit.
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On Wed, 1 Jul 2009 15:05:11 -0400, "Mike Hall - MVP" <...@mvps.org
"Gerry" <...@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
So try Easeus out for yourself then..
--
Mike Hall - MVP Windows Experience
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/
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On Fri, 3 Jul 2009 11:07:50 +0100, "Gerry" <...@nospam.com
Mike
And your earlier message was?
http://snurl.com/lozuc [groups_google_co_uk]
--
Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> So try Easeus out for yourself then..
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On Fri, 3 Jul 2009 10:23:46 -0400, "Mike Hall - MVP" <...@mvps.org
"Gerry" <...@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
Gerry
There is a risk of partial or total failure every time that a computer (or
anything for that matter) is powered up.
There was no mention of what partition manager was used, no version,
nothing, and from what I can see, there was no connection to the fault which
could be attributed to use of a partition manager.
I take it from this reply that you have no intention of trying out Easeus..
Oh well..
--
Mike Hall - MVP Windows Experience
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/
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