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On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 00:37:45 GMT, jt august <...@net.att
In article <op.umyvu3d2h8mbpp@lancerwrote:
Today at work, one of my coworkers came up to me and offered to set me up to set me up with info on how to modify my Nintendo DS to download games and save money on games. Now I see this post, and it gets me thinking,
how many of you guys and gals here are like me, not interested in these
things, just wanting to collect the real games and play them as they
were intended?
I know this subject has been brought up before, but its been a couple of
years, and there has been somewhat of a turnover in the crowd here, so
I curious the current mindset.
jt
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On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 19:48:04 -0600, Dan Lingman <...@rogers.com.nospamplease
jt august <...@inetnews.worldnet.att.net:
Given the many hundreds of real games I own, I'm firmly in the "buy the
real thing" camp. I've got well over 400 PC games, maybe 20 for the PS3,
20-30 for the 360, and a whole room (10x12) devoted to the rest of the
series, all the way back to an original Atari Pong, hand helds, table
tops etc.... I've lost count of the systems I've got.
It might also be due to me working in the software industry. Pretty
hypocritical to expect people to pay for software I write, then go steal
from others. (and yes, I know that none of the original
developers/companies are profiting from me buying 2600 carts at the
Salvation Army, but it's till the principle of hte thing that counts to
me.)
On my recent trip to Baltimore, I took my PSP with me - with Gradius
Collection, the original (JP) Namco Museum, and the port of Final
Fantasy.
Do I have things like Mame and assorted emulators? Yes. Do they see much
use? No. I'd rather use a real controller, on a real console. (mind you,
that will change a bit, once I've got my Pandora). However, even then,
I'll probably stick to games that I actually own, under the premise that
I'm just format shifting for convinience.
Cheers, and happy collecting.
Dan Lingman
Ottawa, Ontario
Canada
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On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 06:11:51 GMT, jt august <...@net.att
In article <...@216.196.97.131 Dan Lingman <...@rogers.com.nospamplease
Now MAME is one emulator I have and do use, simply because I cannot
handle all the games I would like to have. I already have 4, and if I
ever get a pin (Centaur and Fire Poewr being my main wants), that will
be it for space.
Of course, if I ever win Powerball, things would change. Then I could
afford the space to house my real want list (www.klov.com).
I've dabbled in some console emulators, mainly to try games I have yet
to get. Oh, and I have Inty Lives, Acti-V Classics and Atari Redux,
along with several other commercially released emu's for the psx family
and similar.
But also, Dan, I am curious yoru current thought on cheat codes?
jt
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On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 13:04:39 -0600, Dan Lingman <...@rogers.com.nospamplease
jt august <...@inetnews.worldnet.att.net:
Well, I've also got a bunch of re-done games - like the intv handheld tv
game (and a bunch more).
wrt cheat codes, I look at it like this:
If I suck so badly at the game that I need to use cheat codes, I might as
well just photoshop the high score screen. What's the point? I don't
tend to read walkthroughs or buy game guides for much the same reason.
The one exception that I have to that is to bypass known bugs in the
game.
Cheers,
Dan.
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On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 15:27:15 -0600, Frank Traut <...@charter.net
JT, this co-worker of yours... do they happen to be a teenager
or a 20 something year old? It's pretty well documented that
kids today respect and value very little, if anything. Especially
physical media. Laws. Parenting. Authority. Boundries in general.
A fellow I know that ran an antique store recently closed his
business after decades of continual declination. And he wasn't ready
for "retirement". His exact words were: "kids don't collect anything
these days". Been a while since I've heard truer words. Disposable
society run by... <insert colourful metaphor here
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On Thu, 01 Jan 2009 18:01:59 GMT, jt august <...@net.att
In article <...@newsfe06.iad Frank Traut <...@charter.net
Actually, he is the 37 year old Tool Room Supervisor.
jt
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On Thu, 01 Jan 2009 13:26:34 -0600, Frank Traut <...@charter.net
Okay - so what's his problem then?! lol Work with me here...
does he have any teenagers? OR does *he* just think it's cool
that he knows how to do this sort of thing?
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On Fri, 02 Jan 2009 04:07:26 GMT, jt august <...@net.att
In article <...@newsfe13.iad Frank Traut <...@charter.net
I have to work with him, that that's difficult enough. Besides, I think
to commute to where you are would to too long.
The latter. Lance thinks he's all that. A few years back, when the
company owner, Troy, got an H2 Hummer, Lance got one, too. There is
also ongoing rumour/jokes about lance and his knee pads (nudge, nudge,
say no more).
jt
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On Thu, 1 Jan 2009 14:59:11 -0600, "Turbo Torch" <...@hotmail.com
"Frank Traut" <...@newsfe06.iad...
What's the difference between all the pirating that went on in the 80s for
every home computer made vs. today's kids modding consoles to run pirated
games? Back then games were downloaded off BBSs, today off the internet.
Back then software and hardware devices were used to defeat floppy disk copy
protection, today mod chips and hacks are used in about the same way.
Kids from the 80s weren't exactly angels. I bet if you polled 1000 kids
from 1985 and 1000 kids from 2008, the amount of pirating would be about the
same.
Personally I modded one of my PSPs with custom firmware to run all the great
emulators and applications available. My other PSP is stock so that if I
want to buy a new game that comes out next week I won't have to worry about
compatibility issues with it running on the hacked firmware.
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On Thu, 01 Jan 2009 15:51:48 -0600, Frank Traut <...@charter.net
Good points here, but still disagree. Especially when taking into
consideration quantities and the easy access kids have today to do
illegal, unethical things. You can thank the internet. You can also
thank liberal parenting. Kids have more disposable income and time to do
a whole lot of nothing or harm to our society in so many ways, most
people don't even bother to think about. It's depressing yes, but it's
also reality.
For example, in the 80's we did not sit in church and tell
Lifetouch/Olin Mills employees we were going to scan our free 8x10
portrait and distribute copies to our families. We also did not share
our entire music libraries between each other. We cared about quality.
We wanted the actual album cover and liner notes. In fact, I never leant
my LP's out for fear of them being returned scratched. Kids today could
care less about CD's. They'll rip them to an even lesser quality format
and then throw the damn thing away. Liner notes and all. If we made a
recording from lp onto tape, that truly was for backup purposes only.
I do not remember ANY of my friends every saying: "why buy the record
when I'll give you a copy on tape for free". lol
Pirating obviously has always existed, but this kind of behaviour is off
the charts today. It's A LOT more acceptable for kids to be douches w/
little to no consequence and anyone over the age of 30 knows it. Stealing
has become so common with so many of our youth that they no longer even
have a bad conscience about it. Of course kids from any decade were not
"angels", but there has been a serious compromise in ethics that is
measurable in just about every aspect of our society. One would have to
live under a rock not to take notice.
And this is not an old man saying that the younger generation sucks kind
of thing. Just saying that there are many, many standards going down the
drain and the proof is all around us. I used to sell Satellite dishes
from the 'C' band to the tiny digital ones. And that's another great
example... MORE families today than ever stealing services by illegal
access cards and the like.
No sense in arguing with the numbers of potential theft that are out
there. Not even close to 80's.
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On Thu, 01 Jan 2009 16:16:53 -0600, Frank Traut <...@charter.net
Oh and coincidentally, just read an article where teens/
tweens were poled and questioned about cheating. Literal
cheating... on each other! lol All time highest percentage
of that going on and they found that these kids rationalise
their cheating by citing these top examples:
1) Whether or not it's true, I feel like my mate is cheating
on me - so therefore, I am or will be cheating on them.
2) I'm screwed by X aspect of life, so I will in turn,
cheat or steal from this other avenue because I think it
will help balance things out.
3) I've been cheated on in the past, doesn't matter if was
during my current relationship or not, so I will cheat now.
...so there you have it. The greatest form of cheating
often overlooked. With mindsets like this, makes perfect
sense much of society is where its at today. And we won't
even touch the subject of todays teen/tween drug usage
compares to the 80's. LOL!!!!!
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On Thu, 1 Jan 2009 18:10:24 -0600, "Turbo Torch" <...@hotmail.com
"Frank Traut" <...@newsfe01.iad...
Agreed on many points, but as far as pirating goes, what would happen if we
dumped today's technology on any past generation? Technology that was SciFi
25 years ago is dirt cheap and widely available today. I recall copying LPs
to cassette being very common back in the 80s even though it was long a
tedious process with poor sound quality compared to the LP. MP3s are
lightyears ahead of cassette quality and it takes seconds to get any song
you want. Remember all the controversy over copying VHS tapes?
I believe more people are doing these things because the information is a
google search away and you can buy what you need at your local Walmart for
next to nothing. Send that technology back to the 60s and most of the world
would be copying Beatles music.
I think society also looks worse than it is because technology allows us
instant access to everything going on in the world. We hear about news
stories that would have never made the local papers or 10:00 o'clock news
back in the 70s.
At least I hope that's the case. A few clicks to youtube and we get to see
an endless amount of idiots in action. Then there are the youtube
comments...many times when I read one in broken jibberish I click on the
profile hoping to see a foreign country, but more often than not, it's a
late teen or 20 something adult from the USA. I'd like to think they were
always there, but are now just out in the open. :)
That's not to say there aren't other problems. You mentioned drugs and I
think the biggest one is Ritalin abuse that hippie parents and hippie
teachers started shoving down kid's throats starting back in the early 90s.
Now we have so many brainwashed politically correct sheeples that can't take
responsiblity for anything. Buy a $300K house when they can only afford
$100K and it's "not their fault" when it gets foreclosed on. They are
however great at throwing out common buzzwords such as.....green, racist,
green, global warming, going green, pwned, think green, discrimination,
chipotle and green.
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On Thu, 01 Jan 2009 19:36:45 -0600, Frank Traut <...@charter.net
Amen brother Torch.
I'd still argue that, if given today's technology, older
generations would be a tad bit wiser than to use all of
it as we do today. What's been allowed to transpire socially
is a lesson of the de-evolutionary process. Fitting and
natural given the course, that today's society would become
so dependent, greedy, careless and thoughtless.
The things that are allowed to go on today would have
had no place in a society of 30-50 years ago. The shows,
the music, the way people dress, the way they speak, the
way they do not acknowledge each other as they pass by,
the idiots they choose to emulate and look up to, the
instant gratification, the dullards use of the cell phone,
the going out to eat all the time, the lack of quality time
with your parents, the ease in which you can now divorce,
the mind altering behavioural drugs, the "style" in which
people drive, materialism, lack of integrity, bad financial
decisions, yada, yada, yada. These are all modern "things"
that the corporate machine and politicians alike have spent
years perfecting. Forcing this concept of a "global economy"
down all our throats. No more loyalty. No more chivalry. It
took decades for the worthlessness to come about and now we
witness how quickly it is destroying anything and everything
that ever stood for decency. Greed is the new standard and
practice.
So long common sense. It was nice knowing you for the short
stint you were here!
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On Fri, 02 Jan 2009 04:33:26 GMT, jt august <...@net.att
In article <...@netnitco.net "Turbo Torch" <...@hotmail.com
Now that is something I fully agree with. To quote Meatloaf from the
song "Everything Louder Than Everything Else,"
"I know that I will never be politically correct."
It started in the 80's, when self-esteem took precedence of self-respect.
jt
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On Fri, 02 Jan 2009 04:28:38 GMT, jt august <...@net.att
In article <...@newsfe01.iad Frank Traut <...@charter.net
Back then, it was WWIV and other BBS networks, and the pirate networks
were the best connected.
More liberal than the hippies that were parents of 80's teenagers?
Kids had too much time back then, and while disposable income was less,
so was prices.
OK, confession time. In my church, my teenage friends sat in the
balcony and told dirty jokes.
What, you didn't have cassette tapes? We did.
That's why we used high bias, dolby 2 tapes, not 8-tracks.
No, it was so we didn't have to buy everything. We also recorded songs
off the radio. No liner notes there, either. And if we were lucky, no
DJ yammering, either. And here in STL, we had the luxury of KSHE and
their Sunday night "7th Day," where they played whole albums without
talk over, so other radio stations did similar to compete, which was
great for radio recording.
Laugh as loud as you want, but my friends recorded tapes for each other
all the time. I still have my dual cassette player recorder for dubbing
takes.
But to say it was very little back then is just as far under the same
rock. That was when the home video industry tried to get a tax put on
every VCR and video tape sold, with said tax going not to the government
but a fund to be divvied up between the movie and TV studios to
compensate them for lost revenues, and that was back in 1982. Game
piracy issues in computer games goes back to the late 70's and the rise
of the Apple ][ and its competing platforms, and all their many efforts
at copy protection.
BUT, back in the early 80's, those who could afford and whose
towns/property associations allow the big satellite dishes, did so
because they could get all the channels that cable charged for until
scrambling technologies came into play, then almost all of them got
descramblers to thwart the technologies. It became a game of chess so
quickly.
I so fully disagree with you, Frank. The only real difference is that
the trackability of the numbers is easier. Of course, the statistics
are so easily manipulated, especially by groups like the RIAA, that none
can be truly believed.
jt
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On Thu, 01 Jan 2009 23:45:23 -0600, Frank Traut <...@charter.net
Oh yeah. Way more so. Difference now is that today's hippies (you
may not recognise them so easily since their hair is much shorter)
are of the same politically "correct" Torch is talking about. Afraid
to discipline their children because of the way they were raised.
Where I'm from, most kids had jobs. Much more so than the kids of
today. We weren't afraid of work. Some of us had 2 or more jobs. I
do not remember seeing kids with sooo much downtime as I do today.
We also had hobbies & sports that kept us out of trouble (for the most
part) and between jobs and hobbies - yes, very little unstructured
time to be getting high, getting girls pregnant, etc.
Of course. And metal and Dolby C and Dolby S, or Reel to Reel,
blah, blah. Again, I did not witness this culture of copying
music to tape and passing them around like CD's and mp3's
are today. Your mileage obviously varied.
So you're saying you were happy with the sound quality of an
FM broadcast and by recording radio, would prevent you from
purchasing albums?
You standards and experiences are obviously different.
Naturally. Never said piracy did not happen back then. Just trying to
show that it has gotten worse and worse by each passing decade. Still
stand by the ratio of kids stealing today than yesteryear. Vastly more
different platforms TO steal from today that compound this. And many
more social variables that lead to said behaviour.
So you're saying that there are zero cultural & social differences
between the decades that would not enable a higher percentage of kids
today to steal? I think you're smarter than that. Experiences or
awareness obviously differ here. I know you have kids, so maybe that's
partly it. So do I. Doesn't make me want to defend them any more though.
Especially when they are the product of a broken home - which is yet
another statistic easily proven today<contributing factor to the escalated theft and general disrespect.
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On Fri, 02 Jan 2009 15:24:31 GMT, jt august <...@net.att
In article <...@newsfe19.iad Frank Traut <...@charter.net
Me, personally, less so. But a clean FM transmission by the specs has
better sound quality than cassette, and then you just have to concern
yourself with the station's EQ and compression. If a station back in
the 80's played off cart, a broadcast quality variant of 8-track, then
the sound quality was tangibly impacted. Excessive compression clips
fidelity, and some stations set the EQ based on their "target demo,"
which can over bass or mute certain frequencies, and flatten the
waveform. But some stations back then played off CD and LP routinely in
this market (STL), and their sound quality pushed the limits of FM
broadcast technology, and really sounded great.
The Top 40 stations used carts routinely, and you could tell the
difference. But they played complete albums on Sundays directly from CD
(to compete with KSHE's 7th Day) and thus a prime listening/recording
opportunity.
I hope the previous paragraph explains the STL situation, which I don't
think was typical back then.
I never trusted statistics, so I shan't debate such numbers. Having
been in enough situations where numbers have been manipulated, I don't
put any value in such numbers.
But I will state this about quality of product. The RIAA cries and
whines about decreasing sales, and blames file sharing. But I look at
the music I have added to my iTunes library in the last two years, and
the OVERWHELMING majority of it is used CDs from garage sales and
thrifts OR music from local bands around the country put out for free to
help them build followings via their own web sites and myspace pages.
Witches in Bikinis, a group out of Manhatton that only recorded one
album, and their official web site has all their songs for free. MGMT
(originally called Management) did a great song called Time to Pretend.
Didn't get to Top 40, but the song has picked up nationally rated
airplay, and I got that song 6-8 months before they were on Letterman
from their website. The songs Great DJ by the Ting-Tings, Mercy by
Duffy and Pictures of You by the Last Goodnight were all free songs from
iTunes before those acts got "discovered" by the general population. Of
these songs, I enjoy repeated listening. A lot of songs I hear as new
releases on the major radio stations aren't even worth one listening.
There have been some this year, more than the last few, but I get those
songs through iTunes because the rest of said albums are horrible. The
biggest reason music sales are down is because there isn't enough good
music to buy. Single song download work because you don't get stuck
with a CD full of trash. But of course, total dollars on single song
sales is far lower than full CD sales.
On the subject of video games, there are a lot of games that lack replay
value. Many players rent games from BBuster or similar, and play them
through in three days, and have no interest in playing them again. Many
of these types have taken to copying games because they play them once
and delete them. True, the internet has made this easier, but if games
were designed to be worth playing oer and over the way we still do with
our classics (the better ones, of course), sales would reflect that.
Also, used game sales don't reflect in statistics, and a lot of games
get their single play and are sold to EB and GS, and someone else buys
them used, plays them once and trades back in.
Quality encourages sales, drek does not.
First, my kids are 10 (son) and 13 (daughter), and they don't yet know
how to fileshare and hack consoles. And I am still married to the
Wifebeast, 17 years and counting, so I fall outside those statistics at
present. As to divorces, that is a subject I don't even want to start
on. That's a diatribe that could haunt excessive bandwidth that could
even overwhelm Google (OK, wishful thinking, but I have a disdain for
Google Groups, AOL and Hotmail).
I have two more shifts and then I am done with my seasonal job at
Macy's, but from my encounters with youth this season, I have been
pleasantly surprised at the level of respect I have received from said.
And I can recall incidents among my generation that could be perceived
as disrespectful by my then elders when we were teens, but it was just a
bunch of us hanging together, and finding things to laugh about. One
particular incident was at a Pizza Parlour I worked at. Four of us were
working on one guy's car at the back of the parking lot, and I had my
car open and the stereo jamming when the song Big Balls by A/C D/C came
on the tape I was playing (cassette, never had an 8-track). An older
lady - perhaps in her 50's or 60's - was walking in. The song was at
the chorus, "But we got the biggest, balls of them all!" The lady
stopped, glared at us, then went in the side door of the restaurant. As
soon as she was gone, we turned to each other and laughed. We didn't do
a thing intentionally, it was all in the timing of when the song played
and she got out of her car. But I am certain we were being a bunch of
hooligans. Sandy, the manager, came out a little later after she left,
and asked us what song was playing. We told her and she laughed,
telling us the lady was grumbling that "a bunch of thugs were taunting
her on the parking lot."
Me thinks, Frank, that you are turning into an old Fart, just like your
old man, and his old man before him. But then, that's all part of human
nature, and I don't begrudge you that.
And if you're not happy with things here, you should see what it is like
on my home planet. <g
jt
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On Fri, 02 Jan 2009 10:52:13 -0600, Frank Traut <...@charter.net
Howdy JT - in old fart fashion, I've got to point out that the specs
of FM are not superior to that of cassette. The best FM receivers
have a much more shunted frequency response. Best I'm aware of might
be a Magnum Dynalab that allows 10hz-17khz (and that is QUITE good
by modern FM receiver standards, no way is that even remotely close
to being the norm). No way FM even broadcasts that much of a spectrum,
especially with all the compression going on (even though they are
capable of it). And besides, having the potential to broadcast *any*
said frequencies are always going to default to the source. An FM
receivers s/n ratio is at least 20+ db's or worse compared to the
various Dolby NR's as well. Separation is similar though. And then
there's the ever constant carrier wave. Some really good tape decks and
receivers even attempt to filter or "notch" that frequency out. Another
compromise in sound to be sure.
FM may be "good enough", but it's not to the specs of the modern
cassette. Especially when you compare recording a CD or LP to tape.
All things are not equal here though as I primarily use Kyocera and
Nakamichi decks (20hz-20khz on any formulation tape, 70+db s/n ratios,
etc.). But have used Revox, Tandberg, Sony, Pioneer, etc. in the past.
You're saying in your area, you witnessed a large amount of people
recording FM to tape and being happy enough with the quality that
they did NOT purchase music. I just do not see that as being the
norm nationally. IF you're going to refuse to look at stats, then
just try to think of all the kids, tweens, adults burning, ripping,
tearing, shredding movies to the various mpeg standards today.
Again - it's so common, many people no longer think of it as
something that is fundamentally "wrong".
Computer BBS people knew full well what they were doing and kept it
an underground phenomenon. Another difference today is that the
theft is so visible. That's the defiance and the largest difference
I am talking about.
Staying true to your post though on 'Cheating'... would you be surprised
at all to hear that more high school and college kids cheat on tests
than ever before? Heck, even South Park recently had an episode that
reflects this.
Please try to forgive the ramblings of a bleak and frail old man.
After all, you were interested in hearing from those of us that
still haunt the old haunts :-)
<feeling around> Now where did I set those rose coloured glasses again?
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On Fri, 02 Jan 2009 23:30:23 GMT, jt august <...@net.att
In article <...@newsfe03.iad Frank Traut <...@charter.net
Rose colored glasses are so last millennium. Today, it's Real-D glasses.
jt
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Anonymous Wrote:
Without going back through this entire (excellent) thread, I want to
make the following points:
* Yes, piracy was widespread long before the internet. People copied
LPs onto tapes, and floppies to floppies. I have an older friend who
says that in his college days, the campus radio station would play an
entire album, start to finish, and actually count down to make it easy
for dubbing onto R2R. True, the real enthusiasts would always use
copying as a backup method, but a lot of people still fell into the
"Give me as much as I can get for free" crowd.
* That said, I think that something HAS changed in our mentality
toward this. In the above examples, the people doing the copying were
generally students. Students would copy because their financial
realities prevented them from getting what they wanted legit. That
didn't make it right, but you at least understood that you were
playing the system. Most often, once you got your own job, you took
pride in being able to buy the real deal instead of pirating. Now,
however, it seems like we no longer give any thought to paying for
stuff, EVER. You want old games? Get an emulator! You want music?
Get Kazaa! Bada-bing, problem solved. It's no longer just students,
I've seen elderly people being told to get their music that way-- and
since they're from a generation that paid for everything, they never
even realize what they're doing isn't honest. They figure since the
cops aren't banging on their door, it must be ok.
* For the record, I'm also getting annoyed at the hyping of "green"
stuff. I am in favor of being responsible in our use of the planet,
but if you're going to call yourself "green", you damn well better be
able to back it up. I want to see that you make a real effort to be
less wasteful in every step of your operation, not "Ummm.... well, we
try to buy recycled paper when it's on sale." Truth be told, I think
the "green" label is a way of getting people to support businesses
that otherwise have poor business models.
* Bringing it back to topic: I believe in having the real deal, buying
the actual carts and CDs. There are times when this is impractical,
but the use of emulators in times of necessity only makes me want the
real thing that much more.
--
Aaron J. Bossig
htttp://www.GodsLabRat.com
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On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 01:17:34 -0800 (PST), MegaBob <...@yahoo.com
> htttp://www.GodsLabRat.com
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On Sat, 03 Jan 2009 13:42:11 -0600, Frank Traut <...@charter.net
The super fast LCD flashy kind? Just sold my last pair of X-Specs for
the Amiga. I knew I shouldn't have done that!
Also had 'em for the Sega Master System. Great stuff, if only for the
headaches and epileptic fits!! lol
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On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 14:32:32 GMT, jt august <...@net.att
In article <...@newsfe09.iad Frank Traut <...@charter.net
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. At the movie theaters, the new
technology 3D glasses, Real-D. Uses an advanced variant technology of
polarized optics. See here for more info:
http://reald-corporate.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_D
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disney_Digital_3-D
I've seen Meet the Robinsons, U2 3D - the Concert Experience, Hanna
Montanna Live: The Best of Both Worlds* and Bolt in this 3D format, and
the effects are incredible. More 3D than the real world.
jt
* My kids HAD to see HM:BoBW, and I will admit I wanted to see it since
almost all of it** was shot here in St. Louis, and it was fun seeing
recognizable aspects of St. Louis in various sequences in the
documentary portions of the movie, as well as being able to recognize
St. Louis Blues specific features of the arena area itself. And
besides, some (not all) of her songs I kind of enjoy. But boy, I'm glad
I was unsuccessful in getting tickets to the show itself at the Kiel
Center. Too much tweenie screaming.
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