Bob Dylan interview Part 4

On Mon, 13 Apr 2009 06:56:14 -0700 (PDT), Rachel <...@aol.com

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/bob-dylan/5148025/Bob-Dylan-interview- with-Bill-Flanagan.html

Bob Dylan, interview with Bill Flanagan
In a Telegraph online exclusive, Bob Dylan reveals what he thinks
about The Rolling Stones, Nazis and the difference between actors and
singers.

Interview by Bill Flanagan
Last Updated: 11:12AM BST 13 Apr 2009

Dylan: 'Those fifties and sixties records were definitely important.
That might have been the last great age of real music'
Bob Dylan rarely gives interviews and when he does they are rarely
revealing. But in the run up to the release of his 33rd album,
Together Through Life, he has been engaged in a long and fascinating
conversation with leading US rock critic and MTV producer, Bill
Flanagan. In three previously released extracts (available to read on
http://www.bobdylan.com) Dylan spoke about his love for the accordion,
distrust of politicians, his concerns about the fate of Barack Obama,
his experiences with the ghosts of the American civil war and his own
role as an itinerant truth seeker.

Here, on playful, teasing form, a simple question about former
wrestler turned Governor of Minnesota leads to some tongue-in-cheek
criticism of The Rolling Stones, a discussion of the difference
between actors and singers and Dylan's bafflement at the appeal of
Adolf Hitler. With his weary acknowledgement that Hitler "knew
something, he knew that people didn't think" and distrust of charisma
and "the torch of the spoken word" that filled the graves of Europe in
the Second World War, it adds up to a revealing insight into the
greatest singer-songwriter of our times.

Bill Flanagan: Getting back to politics, what did you think of Jesse
Ventura, being a Minnesotan and all?

Bob Dylan: He did some good things or tried to. I never met him. All I
know about the governor is that he’s a Rolling Stones fan.

BF: Your old cohorts?

BD: I hear from Keith once in a while but that’s about it.

BF: What do you think of the Stones?

BD: What do I think of them? They’re pretty much finished, aren’t
they?

BF: They had a gigantic tour last year. You call that finished?

BD: Oh yeah, you mean Steel Wheels. I’m not saying they don’t keep
going, but they need Bill. Without him they’re a funk band. They’ll be
the real Rolling Stones when they get Bill back.

BF: Bob, you’re stuck in the 80’s.

BD: I know. I’m trying to break free.

BF: Do you really think the Stones are finished?

BD: Of course not, They’re far from finished. The Rolling Stones are
truly the greatest rock and roll band in the world and always will be.
The last too. Everything that came after them, metal, rap, punk, new
wave, pop-rock, you name it …. you can trace it all back to the
Rolling Stones. They were the first and the last and no one’s ever
done it better.

BF: This Dream of You has this wonderful South of the Border feel, but
at the same time, I detect echoes of Sam Cooke, the Coasters, the
Brill Building, and Phil Spector. Were those records from the 50's and
60's important to you? Did you try to capture some of that flavor in
This Dream of You?

BD: Those fifties and sixties records were definitely important. That
might have been the last great age of real music. Since then or maybe
the seventies it's all been people playing computers. Sam Cooke, the
Coasters, Phil Spector, all that music was great but it didn’t exactly
break into my consciousness.

Back then I was listening to Son House, Leadbelly, the Carter family,
Memphis Minnie and death romance ballads. As far as songwriting, I
wanted to write songs like Woody Guthrie and Robert Johnson. Timeless
and eternal. Only a few of those radio ballads still hold up and most
of them have Doc Pomus’ hand in them. Spanish Harlem, Save the Last
Dance for Me, Little Sister … a few others. Those were fantastic
songs. Doc was a soulful cat. If you said there was a little bit of
him in This Dream of You I would take it as a compliment.

BF: Even though many of the tracks on the album are about love, the
album is full of pain – sometimes in the same song. In Beyond Here
Lies Nothing, the song is underscored by a feeling of foreboding.
You’re moving down "boulevards of broken cars.” You’re going to love
"as long as love will last.” Is pain a necessary part of loving?

BD: Oh yeah, in my songs it is. Pain, sex, murder, family - it goes
way back. Kindness. Honour. Charity. You have to tie all that in.
You’re supposed to know that stuff.

BF: Getting back to This Dream of You , the character sings, “How long
can I stay in this nowhere café?” Where is that café?

BD: It sounds like it’s south of the border or close to the border.

BF: You’re not saying?

BD: Well, no, it’s not like I’m not saying. But if you have those kind
of thoughts and feelings you know where the guy is. He’s right where
you are. If you don’t have those thoughts and feelings then he doesn’t
exist.

BF: The character in the song reminds me a lot of the guy who is in
the song Across The Borderline.

BD: I know what you’re saying, but it’s not a character like in a book
or a movie. He’s not a bus driver. He doesn’t drive a forklift. He’s
not a serial killer. It’s me who’s singing that, plain and simple. We
shouldn’t confuse singers and performers with actors. Actors will say,
“My character this, and my character that.” Like beating a dead horse.
Who cares about the character? Just get up and act. You don’t have to
explain it to me.

BF: Well can’t a singer act out a song?

BD: Yeah sure, a lot of them do. But the more you act the further you
get away from the truth. And a lot of those singers lose who they are
after a while. You sing, “I’m a lineman for the county,” enough times
and you start to scamper up poles.

BF: What actor could you hear singing This Dream of You?

BD: Gosh I don’t know, James Cagney, Mickey Rooney

BF: How about Humphrey Bogart?

BD: Yeah, sure, him too. Funny thing about actors and that identity
thing. Every time I run into Val Kilmer, I can’t help myself. I say,
“Why, Johnny Ringo - you look like somebody just walked on your
grave.” Val always says, “Bob, I’m not Johnny Ringo. That’s just a
role I played in a movie." He could be right, he could be wrong. I
think he’s wrong but he says it in such a sincere way. You have to
think he thinks he’s right.

BF: Do you think actors have to be sincere?

BD: Not at all. Mae West wasn’t. She was just who she was on the
screen. Just like Jimmy Stewart and Burt Lancaster.

BF: And Johnny Weissmuller.

BD: Yeah, Lon Chaney, too.

BF: Could that mean that Alec Guinness is Hitler?

BD: Well sure, a part of him is. But of course he’s not Hitler. And
neither is anybody else. Hitler was Hitler.

BF: Do you remember images of Hitler from growing up?

BD: No, not growing up. He was dead by the time I was four or five. I
never had a real understanding of that.

BF: Never had an understanding of what?

BD: How you take a failed landscape painter and turn him into a
fanatical mad man who controls millions. That’s some trick. I mean the
powers that created him must have been awesome.

BF: Well, the social and economic conditions of the Weimar Republic
were so different than now.

BD: Yeah sure, looking back in hindsight, you can see that someone
would have to take control. But still, it’s so perplexing. Like why
him? You could see that the man’s a total mutt. No Aryan
characteristics whatsoever. You couldn’t guess his ancestry. Brown
hair, brown eyes, pasty complexion, no particular type of stature,
Hitler mustache, raincoat, riding whip, the whole works. He knew
something. He knew that people didn’t think. Look at the faces of the
millions who worshipped him and you see that he inspired love. It’s
scary and sad. The torch of the spoken word. They were glad to follow
him anywhere, loyal to the bone. Then of course, he filled up the
cemeteries with them.

BF: It brings to mind Hitler talking to the crowd in Triumph of the
Will by Leni Riefenstahl.

BD: Yeah, it’s clear as day.

Together Through Life is released on April 27 on Columbia Records. To
order the CD visit amazon.co.uk.

Bob Dylan tours the UK in April/May 2009. For more information, and to
read the rest of Bob Dylan's conversation with Bill Flanagan, visit
http://www.bobdylan.com.