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On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 17:27:03 +1200, "mungbean" <...@hotmail.co.nz
"Dave (SA)" <...@r7g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...
lets not forget the Coconuts are pretty good on brawn but a tad limited on
the grey matter. Hence Auckland's current demise in the Air NZ cup. 1
dimensional capibility.
Get them riled and they stop thinking period.
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On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 14:01:58 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <...@gmail.com
On Aug 16, 8:48 pm, "Dave (SA)" <...@gmail.com
Yep.
Really? Even back in my day they had 99 calls. IMHO the game was
dirtier in the old days and there's far less tolerance of rough stuff
nowdays.
Agreed.
I didn't go to the game but I have spoken to some who did. It was a
nasty thing to happen but has been *hugely* blown out of proportion by
the media. The reasons for that are no doubt being the schools
involved and the fact Henry and Whineray were attending.
A few punches thrown, but then the Kelston subs ran into it which
triggered spectators to run on - many of who were trying to break it
up but it triggered a few idiots into action as well.
One kid got king hit but that was before all and sundry joined in.
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On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 07:37:51 +1000, "dechucka" <...@hotmail.com
"JohnO" <...@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 16, 8:48 pm, "Dave (SA)" <...@gmail.com
Yep.
Really? Even back in my day they had 99 calls. IMHO the game was
dirtier in the old days and there's far less tolerance of rough stuff
nowdays.
Agreed.
I didn't go to the game but I have spoken to some who did. It was a
nasty thing to happen but has been *hugely* blown out of proportion by
the media. The reasons for that are no doubt being the schools
involved and the fact Henry and Whineray were attending.
A few punches thrown, but then the Kelston subs ran into it which
triggered spectators to run on - many of who were trying to break it
up but it triggered a few idiots into action as well.
=================================================
May have been overblown but reserves and spectators getting involved in a
brawl is a disgrace in any sport in any age group
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On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 16:53:05 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <...@gmail.com
On Aug 17, 9:37 am, "dechucka" <...@hotmail.com
I agree. The most disturbing part of all is the two headmasters
blaming each other's schools.
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On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 10:30:04 +1000, "dechucka" <...@hotmail.com
"JohnO" <...@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 17, 9:37 am, "dechucka" <...@hotmail.com
I agree. The most disturbing part of all is the two headmasters
blaming each other's schools.
======================================================
Oh, our little dears couldn't have possibly started it they were just
defending themselves against the big bullies from ( insert name of school,
club etc here ).
I'd love to say it is a big bad NZ thing but it isn't. In Aus we've had
parents end up in hospital at games and now some sports hand out spectator
code of conduct pamphlets at the start of the season. Even at my daughters
Under 11 netball game there was agro towards her coach, not exactly to do
with the game but it is sad when a bloke start pushing around a moderately
slight young/middle age lady.
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On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 02:43:41 -0700 (PDT), "Mark (newsgroups)" <...@yahoo.com
On Aug 16, 10:37 pm, "dechucka" <...@hotmail.com
[...]
It is, but it's been happening for many years. Unless you change human
nature, you can expect that it will happen again.
My only experience with this sort of thing was at a club I played for
back in South Africa. I'd broken my collarbone a few weeks previously
so was watching from the sidelines. A small fight started, but
stupidly an uninvolved player kicked someone from behind and that set
off some of the supporters. A mass brawl followed with spectators
climbing in too.
Unfortunately (depending on your view), the Natal Rugby Union had come
down to film the game and donated the use of one of their analysts to
our club for the week to go over the footage and try to offer advice.
So instead of that happening we got to watch the whole event unfold
again when we received the tapes.
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On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 23:28:59 -0700 (PDT), "Dave (SA)" <...@gmail.com
On Aug 16, 11:01 pm, JohnO <...@gmail.com
Still was surprised because it was two of the top rugby schools.
Such schools usually have (or is it had) extremely tough rules.
I may sound like an old fart (seeing I am now over 40).
In my 5 years of high school I never even heard about a mass brawl.
Sure there were cases when 4 or so boys got into a fight.
After one bad tempered afternoon the headmaster got the 1st & 2nd side
to stay behind after assembly (after berating the whole school about
good behaviour, gentlemanly conduct etc.)
Anyway 30 boys (about 25 were innocent) received a mass-jacking
(caning, flogging, beating etc.)
It was all quite funny - the headmaster beating boys many of which
were bigger than him.
Ziggy also went to a good school (I hate to admit that it was good) in
Durban. I am interested to hear how his school tolerated bad tempered
behaviour
>
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On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 00:09:08 +1200, Greig Blanchett <...@nNzOrSfPu.AcMom
On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 23:28:59 -0700 (PDT), "Dave (SA)"
<...@gmail.com
Down here in Christchurch, the annual grudge match between
Christchurch Boys High and Christ's College has ended in brawls for at
least the last few years. CBH alumni include Dan Carter, Richard Loe,
Aaron Mauger, Andrew Mehrtens, Scott Hamilton etc. etc.
Christ's include Robbie Deans, Jock Hobbs, James Ryan etc.
Schoolboys fighting. Hold the front page.
--
greig
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On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 18:48:11 +1200, Bobs <...@thebeach.com
Dave, Kelston is not a good school. It's a poor school in a poor area,
not sure where you get the idea it's a "good" school from. It's a strong
rugby school, that's it. It's shit everywhere else, including other sports.
>>> orange boy).
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On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 00:47:18 -0700 (PDT), "Dave (SA)" <...@gmail.com
On Aug 17, 8:48 am, Bobs <...@thebeach.com
Thanks Bobs for the NZ context.
I asked the question about "Good rugby school" but I must admit it was
in the context of my SA understanding of what depicts a good rugby
school.
In SA's cities =In the rural towns this is mostly true as well.
In SA its often a socio economic thing. The schools that are better
off play rugby. The poorer ones have limited access to any sport and
if they do its soccer.
I am speaking generally of course.
And it is a socio economic matter here because the parents of boys at
better off state schools "top up" the states contribution
substantially. This hires better teachers, provides better facilities
etc. etc.
In SA 10 schools have provided something like 20% of the historical
Boks. 30 schools cover 50% of the histoircal Boks. The rest of the
Boks are often the sole representative of their school and even those
schools are decent rugby schools.
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On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 01:37:41 -0700 (PDT), ruggeryoda <...@gmail.com
On Aug 17, 9:47 am, "Dave (SA)" <...@gmail.com
Is this a guestimate Dave? Where do you get this from.
Grey College Bloem must be the runaway leader in producing Bok
players. Affies Pretoria second? It is quite interesting though - a
high school near where I grew up (Ermelo High School) that always
dominated local leagues and regularly beated top schools Waterkloof
and Affies only ever produced two capped Springboks - Ernst Dinkelmann
and Henno Mentz. Why is that. I've always maintained that the surest
chance to getting into pro rugby is through getting some uni bursary,
or getting signed into a u/19 squad from Craven Week. (When was the
last time a player from club level gets directly into a provincial
team). Shooting from the hip I might guess - top schools near big
universities usually get their kids a better look into from uni
coaches. Think Paul Roos/Maties, Grey/Kovsies, Affies/Tukkies. I've
seen this first hand coaching res age group sides at varsity. The
Tukkie age group coaches (many of them Affies old boys) would almost
guarantee an ex-Affies player entry into their teams, and from there
on it's Tuks 1st XV, Blue Bulls u/21 - the rest is history.
-R
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On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 02:00:31 -0700 (PDT), "Dave (SA)" <...@gmail.com
On Aug 17, 10:37 am, ruggeryoda <...@gmail.com
I worked it out exactly sometime ago
Bishops is Number 1 followed by Grey Bloem
Will give u the exact figures that I dug out
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On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 02:31:55 -0700 (PDT), "Dave (SA)" <...@gmail.com
On Aug 17, 11:00 am, "Dave (SA)" <...@gmail.com
Bishops 1
Paul Roos 2
Grey Bloem 3 but will overtake both soon
Affies is Number 12
The top 5 schools yield over 20% of all Boks
The top 10 yield 30%
The top 20 yield 39%
The top 30 yield 45.8%
The 39th school takes it past 50%
Position, School Name, No of Boks, Cumm %
1 Diocesan College, Cape Town (Bishops) 34 5.1%
2 Paul Roos Gymnasium, Stellenbosch 33 10.0%
3 Grey College, Bloemfontein 32 14.8%
4 South African College School (SACS) 20 17.7%
5 Paarl Gimnasium 18 20.4%
6 Kimberley Boys' High 16 22.8%
7 Paarl Boys High 16 25.2%
8 Rondebosch Boys High 14 27.3%
9 Maritzburg College 10 28.8%
10 Grey High School, Port Elizabeth 8 30.0%
11 St Andrews, Grahamstown 8 31.1%
12 Afrikaans Hoër Seunskool, Pretoria 7 32.2%
13 Hilton College 7 33.2%
14 Selborne College, East London 7 34.3%
15 Glenwood, Durban 6 35.2%
16 Wynberg Boys High, Cape Town 6 36.1%
17 Cradock 5 36.8%
18 Hendrik Verwoerd, Pretoria 5 37.6%
19 Hottentots-Holland, Somerset West 5 38.3%
20 Jan van Riebeeck, Cape Town 5 39.0%
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On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 02:47:58 -0700 (PDT), ruggeryoda <...@gmail.com
On Aug 17, 11:31 am, "Dave (SA)" <...@gmail.com
Insightful. Thanks. Hard to believe Affies only contributed 7.
-R
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On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 21:26:40 +0100, DC <...@yahoo.com
Many of those for Bishops, SACS and Paul Roos are Pre-WWII. SACS only
have 2 since WWII.
http://www.genslin.us/bokke/SARugby.html
"Since WWII:
Schools with the most Springboks since World War 2
School Players
Grey College, Bloemfontein 26
Paarl Gimnasium 14
Diocesan College, Cape Town (Bishops) 9
Paarl Boys High 8
Paul Roos Gymnasium, Stellenbosch 8
Rondebosch Boys High 8
Afrikaans Hoër Seunskool, Pretoria 7
Hilton College 6
Maritzburg College 6
Selborne College, East London 6
Hendrik Verwoerd, Pretoria 5
Monument, Krugersdorp 5
Sentraal, Bloemfontein 5
Wynberg Boys High, Cape Town 5
Boland Landbou, Paarl 4
Grey High School, Port Elizabeth 4
Harrismith 4
Jan van Riebeeck, Cape Town 4
Kroonstad (Blouskool) 4
Wonderboom, Pretoria 4
...
Schools with the most Springboks since 1992
School Players
Grey College, Bloemfontein 16
Paarl Gimnasium 9
Diocesan College, Cape Town (Bishops) 5
Afrikaans Hoër Seunskool, Pretoria 4
Monument, Krugersdorp 4
Paul Roos Gymnasium, Stellenbosch 4
Selborne College, East London 4
Adelaide 3
Boland Landbou, Paarl 3
Hilton College 3
Kroonstad (Blouskool) 3
Maritzburg College 3
Northwood (Northlands) 3
Oakdale, Riversdal 3
Pretoria Boys High 3
Queens College, Queenstown 3
Sand du Plessis, Bloemfontein 3
Waterkloof, Pretoria 3
..."
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On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 17:31:54 -0700 (PDT), Leonard <...@canada.com
Dave this is Provincial too.
Natal, Eastern Province and Western Province followed/s your described
trait quite accurately whereas the Highveld Schools to a large extent
especially Gauteng and Vrystaat outside of Grey College does not
necessarily produce the best players from Schools with "Rich kids".
Witbank, Ermelo, Waterkloof, Welkom and other great schools from these
areas are very working class and then you have others that have crept
up over the years like Boland Landbou that are not elite at all.
The "elite school" scenario also worked against us over the years too
where guys from Paarl Gym, Grey College and Paul Roos would often get
selected Provincially or Nationally based on the reputation of their
school as opposed to their skills vs a peer from another school. That
peer would then give up the game after school and disappear into the
woodwork.
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On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 14:54:08 +1000, "Ziggy" <...@swiftdsl.com.au
"Leonard" <...@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
Excellent point. I know of at least 10 schoolboys who gave up and were far
better than their peers who became Provincial or Internationals. Money and
position do count. That is why I am a frim beliver in the club system wher
everyone stands an equal chance.The army was a great leveller though - I
recall the tough survival courses where more often than not, the existing
officers would fail and the true leaders would emerge. And when it got real
i.e. in action where you might get a bullet up the arse - most of the
officers and NCOs fell by the wayside and were replaced by those who could
really do the job.
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On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 23:18:28 -0700 (PDT), "Dave (SA)" <...@gmail.com
On Aug 18, 2:31 am, Leonard <...@canada.com
Thanks Leonard, good point.
Being from the Eastern Cape during my primary school and Natal during
my High School days my experience was that it was the better off state
schools that played the best rugby.
I suppose this may have changed to a certain extent in the Eastern
Cape with schools like Queens College being populated by less well off
kids.
You and Ziggy both make some excellent points.
* Yes going to the "right" school means the selectors play particular
attention to you
* the club system was great but Ziggy you are an old fart like me. In
our day you played club rugby after school because it was fun, was a
good place to drink beer and meet girls (oh and some guys were good)
Now if kids don't get a small club "contract" after school they give
up the game. So many years ago a club would have 7 or 8 sides. Now
they have half that and the thirsty thirds struggle to field a side.
The provincial players don't play club rugby at all.
I remember Hugh Reece Edwards - He used to lay provincial rugby on a
Friday night (in places like Welkom and Witbank) and club rugby the
next day having driven straight from the airport to his club ground.
One question at to the point of the original post - How tough were
your schools on being caught for foul play. As I mentioned mine was
intolerant but that because Adolf Hitler was our headmaster
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On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 00:02:00 +1200, Greig Blanchett <...@nNzOrSfPu.AcMom
On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 14:01:58 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <...@gmail.comwrote:
Much ado about nothing. My North Shore club side (5th grade I think it
was) playing against a Te Atatu team back in the 70s - about half way
through the second half our partly blind first five late tackled one
of theirs, then picked him up by the shirt and king hit him. Cue all
in brawl and riot. The ref blew long and loud to no avail and
eventually called the game off.
We got a rep from the Union down that week to give us a team warning,
we were reprimanded by the club and put on duty roster for about a
month, and although it was looked on as bloody stupid and all-round
embarrassing to the club, it never made the papers and didn't seem to
faze Te Atatu - they were quite happy to keep playing us.
The cause of the brawl - a certain Andy Turner - later put the record
straight. Being short sighted he didn't realise the guy he tackled
didn't have the ball until after he'd bowled him. When he got up,
according to his Mr Magoo vision, the guy looked pretty pissed off, as
if he was about to take a swing. So Andy got in the retaliation first.
Of course the Te Atatu guy probably had no such thoughts - Andy was a
pretty big boy for a first five. It's just that with his sight
problem, we couldn't afford to play him any further out - he'd never
see the ball coming.
--
greig
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On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 00:06:55 +1200, Bobs <...@thebeach.com
Showing your age.
> greig
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On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 07:35:29 +1200, Greig Blanchett <...@nNzOrSfPu.AcMom
On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 00:06:55 +1200, Bobs <...@thebeach.comwrote:
Schoolboy back then. We played for the school in the morning and the
club in the afternoon. The rules then were that if you played rugby,
you played for your school first, then you could play for a club. You
couldn't just play club. Those were Union rules - don't know if they
still apply.
--
greig
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On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 03:38:05 -0700 (PDT), JD <...@bigpond.com
On Aug 17, 10:02 pm, Greig Blanchett <...@nNzOrSfPu.AcMom
I know Te Atatu, well, and Andy Turner did the smart thing...
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On Wed, 19 Aug 2009 07:58:55 +1200, Greig Blanchett <...@nNzOrSfPu.AcMom
On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 03:38:05 -0700 (PDT), JD
<...@bigpond.com
The funny thing is, after that Te Atatu became our biggest supporters.
They'd turn up at our games when they had a bye and monster the other
team. You could hear them coming from about a mile away - the roar of
the Mk I and Mk II Zephyrs, they'd all bowl up wearing overalls with
the pockets loaded with spanners, tyre irons etc. - "I was jsut
working on the car, honest" - and put the evil eye on the other guys.
And we're not talking teams of honkeys here - we're talking the cream
of Tamaki, Mangere, Otahuhu, Otara, and not to mention the rednecks of
Helensville, Warkworth and points north.
--
greig
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On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 11:29:45 +0100, Charles <...@msn.com
On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 01:39:53 -0700 (PDT), Luluwazazulu
<...@yahoo.co.nz
That's because you have been indoctrinated from and early age by the
feminist education system propaganda in a PC dominated culture.
Sadly, the UK has drifted the same way during the incumbency of the
present liberal left-wing toe rags that have been running (that should
be 'ruining') the country.
Ugh! It's Monday! ;o(
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On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 07:48:50 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Dave <...@t-online.de
On Aug 17, 11:29 am, Charles <...@msn.com
<snip
Don't you ever get fed up with pissing in the wind, or do you simply
wear yellow clothes all the time?
UD
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On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 16:47:01 +0100, Charles <...@msn.com
On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 07:48:50 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Dave
<...@t-online.de
QED
The vaguest criticism of the left-wing liberal pukes is sufficient to
produce a venomous stream of their sour bile and hostility.
Doesn't appear much like democracy to me!!
GFY!
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On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 17:59:22 +0100, Charles <...@msn.com
On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 09:33:55 -0700 (PDT), didgerman
<...@gmail.com
It's not me that's "losing" - it's the British electorate!
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On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 18:56:01 +0100, Charles <...@msn.com
On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 10:40:57 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Dave
<...@t-online.de
Well at least you present a reasoned argument, even if your input is
motivated by jealousy and resentment, linked to a weary resignation.
Much of what you say has a basis in reality, but that doesn't mean we
just accept it and sit back and do nothing.
Join UKIP and run for Parliament; it could be just what you need to
shake you out of your lethargic doom and gloom!
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On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 10:06:53 +0200, BrritSki <...@iname.com
Funnily enough I was at a party in a friend's multi-million euro villa
above Vence on Saturday and met several people who I hadn't seen for
many years who were all seriously well off. Without exception they were
intelligent and very hard-working (to the detriment of their health in a
couple of cases) and came from very ordinary backgrounds.
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On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 09:19:15 +0100, "Simon S-B" <...@gmail.com
"BrritSki" <...@mid.individual.net...
Of course there are people who succeed on merit, but the City of London is
still an old boys club where your school or regiment will get you a top job
far more often than your ability.
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On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 11:40:54 +0200, BrritSki <...@iname.com
Accepted. The key thing about these guys on Saturday is that we all
worked for American multi-nationals where you can progress very quickly
if you're good (and have a bit of luck).
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On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 10:48:25 +0100, "Simon S-B" <...@gmail.com
"BrritSki" <...@mid.individual.net...
Far more chance in an American multi-national. I used to work for one myself
and progressed nicely.
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On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:02:52 +0200, Klitty <...@gmail.com
BrritSki <...@iname.com
Most companies in the City Of London are American MNs.
--
Pamcakes : "Can't you sleep?"
Gaylord Focker: "Err no, I was running over the answers I gave to your father when he put me through a polygraph test".
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On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 23:32:06 +1200, Bobs <...@thebeach.com
LOL - there's a difference between the UK and NZ, Charlie. The UK is
your native island.
White people in NZ can't say the same thing. How can we mutter about
"fucking immigrants stuffing the country" when our fathers and
grandfathers were immigrants. Shit my mum is a pom.
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On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 13:55:50 +0100, Charles <...@msn.com
On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 23:32:06 +1200, Bobs <...@thebeach.comwrote:
Regardless of the finding of the country and settlement by Polynesians
700 years ago, the early settlers that founded the modern New Zealand
nation, were white Europeans. They based the country's culture and
laws on the British model, as have many other countries around the
world.
Those 'New Zealanders' formed their own class system based on the date
that their families arrived in the country. Due to its prosperity and
stability it became a magnet for other cultures, outside the British
way of life which had become established.
So it is as much in order to "mutter" about the established culture
and ethnic origin being overwhelmed by more recent 'arrivals' in NZ,
as it is in the UK.
However, since the feminist movement introduced PC and social
engineering in the 80s, it has become increasingly difficult for the
citizenry to exercise their right to free speech.
Thus any attempted debate on population imbalances is immediately
stifled by being dubbed racist, while the population are encouraged to
"mutter" quite un-necessary patronising clichés, like the one you
posted above ("I am very proud to call them my fellow New
Zealanders")!!
You have to be very aware of the differences to find it necessary to
make such statements.
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On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 08:38:27 -0700 (PDT), didgerman <...@gmail.com
On 17 Aug, 13:55, Charles <...@msn.com
Don't know if you've checked recently Charles but this is an island.
Furthermore, people didn't spring out of holes in the ground,
brandishing St George's cross and demonstrating a dislike of
foreigners. Your ancestors, not so very long ago, moved here, from
somewhere else. Do you understand this is how the world works, or
would you like to freeze everything so the world stays the same for
ever?
You really are a mindless right wing moron at times.
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On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 16:55:34 +0100, Charles <...@msn.com
On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 08:38:27 -0700 (PDT), didgerman
<...@gmail.com
I am deeply indebted to you for these valuable words of ...
... er ... wisdom?
All of us that don't toe the liberal left-wing line are branded "right
wing [sic] morons". That is the nature of the beast, and until the
national socialist Marxist scourge of political correctness is
defeated, there can never be democracy again.
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On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 08:46:20 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Dave <...@t-online.de
On Aug 17, 4:38 pm, didgerman <...@gmail.com
<snip
Oi! Credit where it's due - Charles is consistent in his bluff-old-
cove-huffing-and-puffing so I demand you retract that "at times".
UD
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On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 16:56:59 +0100, Charles <...@msn.com
On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 08:46:20 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Dave
<...@t-online.de
Quite so Covey, quite so; well said that man; right is right - at all
times!! ;o)
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On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 17:15:01 +0100, Charles <...@msn.com
On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 17:53:46 +0200, Klitty <...@gmail.com
Since when didn't Didge waffle happily out of his voluble rectum?
There is no sensible discourse to be had with the messianic moral
rectitude of dedicated liberal left-wingers, who have been
systematically fed, and swallowed, a diet of PC propaganda.
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On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 10:02:32 +0200, BrritSki <...@iname.com
I thought I was voting for a party who wanted to end an institution
peacefully before it was blown apart by its own internal contradictions,
just as every enforced union has like the USSR, Yugoslavia and I'm sure
many others.
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On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 04:31:20 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Dave <...@t-online.de
On Aug 18, 9:02 am, BrritSki <...@iname.com
Without the EU the UK would be the very VERY poor man of Europe as we
have sod all that anyone else wants except money laundering services.
Fed up with living and working wherever you want in Europe then? Go
back thirty years and see how easy it was to live and work in another
country. It wasn't. Would you really like to have to change money
every time you crossed a border? To have to stop every time you
crossed a border?
Is that what you want? 'Cos that's what'll 'appen...
UD
P.S. Anyway, UKIP are a bunch of crooks - I'm surprised you'd want to
be associated with them.
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On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:24:59 +0100, Charles <...@msn.com
On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 04:31:20 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Dave
<...@t-online.de
That's something of a sweeping statement, but given the rest of the
"crooks" that 'inhabit' the Palace of Westminster purporting to run
our great once country, why would you expect UKIP to be any different?
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On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 17:32:57 +0200, BrritSki <...@iname.com
Complete bollocks. The balance of trade between UK & EU was in our
favour last time I looked. And there's no reason to think that trade
would end if we were outside the EU like Norway or Sweden.
Funnily enough I lived and worked in Italy in the late 70s for 2 years
and met my English wife there who'd been there for 8 years by then. Yes
there was a bit of hassle with residency etc., but no more than there
was 4 years ago when we moved to Italy again.
Then we lived in France for 5 years in the early 80s. Again no problems.
Why would that happen now ? It was Wislon and his band of fuckwits who
imposed the currency controls iirc. I spent several weeks in the Far
East earlier this year and didn't have any currency problems or get
stopped at any borders any more than I do flying round Europe.
Nonsense, it's all scare-mongering. Far more likely that the EU will
disintegrate in a bloody mess just like Yugoslavia. I'm not saying it
will happen soon, maybe not even in my lifetime, but it will happen one
day mark my words.
Yes I know they are, but it was a protest vote.
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On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 17:39:42 +0200, Klitty <...@gmail.com
BrritSki <...@iname.com
Who on earth told you that? The UK has about a 3 Bn deficit with EU and
about 7 Bn deficit worldwide. I can't be arsed to check, But deficit it
is. Its most certainly NOT in the UKs favour.
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On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 18:37:40 +0200, BrritSki <...@iname.com
Ooops, yes you're quite right.
Which is why that trade would not end if we left the EU.
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On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 18:52:55 +0200, Klitty <...@gmail.com
BrritSki <...@iname.com
I'm intrigued though as to why you thought, quite vehemently, that it
was the other way around when its so exactly the opposite?
The "British Empire" is quite a study in how to go from top of the table
to bottom feeder through a mixture of liberal views and bowing to
others who would as soon cut your throat.
I consider myself left wing and tolerant. In my business one has to
be. However every day I read another father's quotes about his Son
"doing his duty for country" the day after he was blown into mince meat
or possible slower and more agonisingly dismembered by shrapnel, and
wonder WTF we are doing in Afghanistan. The same country that this very
day is fixing its polls and passing laws to allow men to starve their
wives if they dont get 'em off when they want it.
The Afghans hate the British and dont let them tell you any
different. No amount dying while "fetching dead comrades" (how
ridiculous if you want to be cold hearted about it) will change
that. Since they humiliated the Empire at the Kabul retreat they have
always felt they are boss and we the lapdogs. And they don't forget.
Every time I talk to a soldier heading out there I always wish they
weren't going. Job or not.
The world's gone mad I tells ya.
--
Pamcakes : "Can't you sleep?"
Gaylord Focker: "Err no, I was running over the answers I gave to your father when he put me through a polygraph test".
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On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 18:56:47 +0200, BrritSki <...@iname.com
Because I knew it "favoured" my argument, but didn't think what that
actually meant in terms of actual BoP numbers.
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On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 11:11:11 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Dave <...@t-online.de
On Aug 18, 5:56 pm, BrritSki <...@iname.com
You definitely chose the right party - you'll fit in well. I'd start
bribing, sorry... *lobbying* for my nomination for the next elections
now if I were you ;-)
UD
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On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 22:17:59 +0200, BrritSki <...@iname.com
I voted for them at the last Euro Elections, didn't join them as such.
Who would you have suggested as more deserving of the vote ?
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On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:39:42 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Dave <...@t-online.de
On Aug 18, 9:17 pm, BrritSki <...@iname.com
The European elections are the only ones I get excited about because
it's the only time my vote counts as I don't live in a marginal
consituency. About the only thing I remember from history at school
was the teacher telling us that when somebody asked us how we voted to
quote the 1832 Reform Act.
UD
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On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 17:15:12 +0100, "Simon S-B" <...@gmail.com
"Dave (SA)" <...@r7g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...
Didn't realize these school sides were so dominated by players of pacific
island extraction.
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On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 14:04:14 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <...@gmail.com
On Aug 17, 4:15 am, "Simon S-B" <...@gmail.com
They're bound to have a lot of PI players because they are so big at
that age. I'm sure you already know that Auckland has a larger PI
population than any city in the Pacific Islands.
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On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 01:07:53 -0700 (PDT), grant <...@scu.edu.au
On Aug 17, 7:04 am, JohnO <...@gmail.com
Don't bet on the fact Simon knows that John. And if he does it is a
pretty lame troll.
grant.
---
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On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 06:46:41 +1000, "dechucka" <...@hotmail.com
"Simon S-B" <...@news.eternal-september.org...
I would of thought that a NZ school rugby team would be full of New
Zealanders
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On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 22:51:29 +0100, "Simon S-B" <...@gmail.com
"dechucka" <...@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
Why? At my school I played with a Nigerian, a Peruvian, someone from China,
a Frenchman, an Italian and that's before we get into the Welsh and
Scottish.
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On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 08:36:01 +1000, "dechucka" <...@hotmail.com
"Simon S-B" <...@news.eternal-september.org...
and none of them were New Zealanders interesting.
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On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 14:02:52 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <...@gmail.com
On Aug 17, 8:46 am, "dechucka" <...@hotmail.com
Clap... clap... clap....
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On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 22:53:02 +0100, "Simon S-B" <...@gmail.com
"JohnO" <...@32g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...
As i've asked elsewhere, why?
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On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 16:58:25 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <...@gmail.com
On Aug 17, 9:53 am, "Simon S-B" <...@gmail.com
Because in the vast majority of cases, these players of PI extraction
are New Zealanders. I am talking nationality, not race.
I think as a country only a few hundred years old and populated by
immigrants (mostly poms) we see these issues a bit differently.
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On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 01:40:43 -0700 (PDT), Luluwazazulu <...@yahoo.co.nz
On Aug 17, 8:46 am, "dechucka" <...@hotmail.com
They are!
Lew
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On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 23:43:36 +1200, Greig Blanchett <...@nNzOrSfPu.AcMom
On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 06:46:41 +1000, "dechucka" <...@hotmail.comwrote:
They are. Why would you think they weren't?
--
greig
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On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 17:07:33 -0700 (PDT), Bobs <...@gmail.com
On Aug 17, 4:15 am, "Simon S-B" <...@gmail.com
Kelston is my old school, even back then (mid 90's) it was half
pacific islander. I suspect 75% of the school is pacific lslander
these days. They mature faster than white and maori kids so no suprise
to see thme dominate the team. This is part of the problem we have in
Auckland rugby. All the white kids get bullied out in their early
teens.
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On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 10:34:04 +1000, "dechucka" <...@hotmail.com
"Bobs" <...@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 17, 4:15 am, "Simon S-B" <...@gmail.com
Kelston is my old school, even back then (mid 90's) it was half
pacific islander. I suspect 75% of the school is pacific lslander
these days. They mature faster than white and maori kids so no suprise
to see thme dominate the team. This is part of the problem we have in
Auckland rugby. All the white kids get bullied out in their early
teens.
===========================================
Back in the good old days when I was a kid ( swings on rocking chair ) we
used to play in weight divisions not age divisions for our primary schools.
Obviously doesn't solve the problem in the more senior years but even in
those days there were concerns in great disparity in weights/size in the
teams
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On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 07:34:10 -0700 (PDT), Ben L <...@hotmail.com
On 17 Aug, 01:34, "dechucka" <...@hotmail.com<snip
Scebes had that too. He played with a bunch of 45 year old beer
monsters at the tender age of 12.
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On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 03:40:05 -0700 (PDT), JD <...@bigpond.com
On Aug 17, 2:15 am, "Simon S-B" <...@gmail.com
Well, it's a numbers game. The NZRU sends scouts to all the Pacific
Islands and brings back every kid who can run, puts them in schools to
see how they develop with a 5-10 year plan of having a few turn out
for the All Blacks rather than wasting their time playing in France.
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On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 01:39:53 -0700 (PDT), Luluwazazulu <...@yahoo.co.nz
On Aug 17, 4:15 am, "Simon S-B" <...@gmail.com
How did you determine that they were of "pacific island extraction"?
All of us who live in NZ are Pacific Islanders, so I am guessing that
you made the observation that the players looked like they were
"genetically" Pacific Islanders.
Auckland has the largest population of "genetically Pacific Islanders"
in the world. I am very proud to call them my fellow New Zealanders.
Lew
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On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 10:02:42 +0100, "Simon S-B" <...@gmail.com
"Luluwazazulu" <...@32g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...
I never suggested you weren't, and I'm sure they are proud of their heritage
as well.
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On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 01:48:14 -0700 (PDT), didgerman <...@gmail.com
On 17 Aug, 09:39, Luluwazazulu <...@yahoo.co.nz
This has been a message from the
rainbowandearthmother.org.............
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On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 00:26:33 -0700 (PDT), Luluwazazulu <...@yahoo.co.nz
On Aug 17, 8:48 pm, didgerman <...@gmail.com
Hahahahahaa!! Nice one!
Memo to self: do not post after more than one bottle of Cabernet
Sauvignon
Lew
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On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 02:42:04 -0700 (PDT), didgerman <...@gmail.com
On 18 Aug, 08:26, Luluwazazulu <...@yahoo.co.nz
Well you were probably right. It's just difficult to put that kind of
sentence into text without sounding like one of Charles' imaginary
tree hugging left wing PC feminist lesbians.
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On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 11:24:20 +0100, Charles <...@msn.com
On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 02:42:04 -0700 (PDT), didgerman
<...@gmail.com
Well that's what you profess to be dearie, and there is nothing
"imaginary" about it!
In fact we never hear why you support liberal left-wing policies and
political correctness; all you ever do is attack with great relish
anyone who dares to criticise them.
What the fuck do you believe in Didge?
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On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 06:46:19 -0700 (PDT), didgerman <...@gmail.com
On 18 Aug, 11:24, Charles <...@msn.com
Charles, what I believe, as always, is that you're wrong.
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On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 16:12:55 +0100, Charles <...@msn.com
On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 06:46:19 -0700 (PDT), didgerman
<...@gmail.com
That is so trite and immature; you clearly don't like the cut of my
jib so you gibber mindlessly, apparently in some feeble effort to
redress some perceived inequity.
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On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 21:37:42 +1200, "Andrew Dunford" <...@artifax.net
"Luluwazazulu" <...@32g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...
That's the second response to Simon's question which has used largest
Polynesian city as some sort of justification/explanation for the high
proportion of Polynesian players in school rugby teams. It doesn't really
work because it's not as though the majority of kids at most schools are
Polynesian - some schools yes, but not most. Wellington doesn't have an
especially large Polynesian population but you should see the Wellington
College first XV. Polynesians are hugely over-represented compared with the
ethnic mix of the population and it is a reasonable question to ask why that
should be.
Andrew
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On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 02:48:04 -0700 (PDT), "Dave (SA)" <...@gmail.com
On Aug 17, 11:37 am, "Andrew Dunford" <...@artifax.net
I assume genetics and physical development play their role
In SA the Afrikaans boys are usually bigger than the English boys.
The reason for this can be found by walking around London and then
walking around Amsterdam.
However since the languages differ they often (not always) end up at
different schools.
Which at least leaves some spots in the 1st team for we 'souties"
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On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 23:28:19 +1200, Bobs <...@thebeach.com
In South Auckland there are entire high schools of 90% PI's, 5%
Africans, and 5% "other".
THey're big boys. At 14 most of them are nearly adult size, compared to
white kids who are still kids
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On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 13:45:11 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <...@gmail.com
On Aug 17, 11:28 pm, Bobs <...@thebeach.com
Gee, who would have thought there was so much money floating around
impoverished South Auckland to import all these PI kids on
scholarships as Mr SSB tells us. He'd know, what with his intimate
insider knowledge of Auckland rugby.
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On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 22:06:49 +0100, "Simon S-B" <...@gmail.com
"JohnO" <...@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
I'm happy to be put right JohnO. It was a reasonable question and I don't
seem to be the only one who needs it clarifying.
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On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 01:01:16 +0100, "Simon S-B" <...@gmail.com
"JohnO" <...@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
Where's that humble pie JohnO?
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On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 03:01:14 -0700 (PDT), ruggeryoda <...@gmail.com
On Aug 17, 11:37 am, "Andrew Dunford" <...@artifax.net
...and the answer was given here as well. Polynesian boys develop
faster than the rest.
-R
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On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 20:15:47 +1200, "Andrew Dunford" <...@artifax.net
"ruggeryoda" <...@k30g2000yqf.googlegroups.com...
Whilst true, it is an oversimplification. The other factor I expect is
fewer white kids playing the game.
Andrew
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On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 02:55:10 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <...@gmail.com
On Aug 17, 9:37 pm, "Andrew Dunford" <...@artifax.net
If you are counting my post you missed the bit where I pointed out
that the PI kids are bigger.
Because they are big fast motherfuckers at a young age.
Got it?
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On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 07:18:22 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Dave <...@t-online.de
On Aug 17, 10:55 am, JohnO <...@gmail.com
<snip
Are you implying that incestuous relationships are endemic Pacific
Islanders? Or are you saying that having such a relationship with
your mother makes you better at rugby? Which is it?
UD
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On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 11:05:21 +0100, "Simon S-B" <...@gmail.com
"JohnO" <...@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
So it's got nothing to do with rugby scholarships handed out by these
schools then?
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On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 03:17:37 -0700 (PDT), "Dave (SA)" <...@gmail.com
On Aug 17, 12:05 pm, "Simon S-B" <...@gmail.com
Of course scholarships will influence one school.
But w/o that scholarship they will end up at another school and be in
the 1st team.
Don't know hopw big scholarships are in NZ
In SA - in my day they were virtually non existent
Now they are commonplace in the top schools
However merely being a top school draws the boys anyway - w/o
scholarships
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On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 05:15:35 -0700 (PDT), higgs <...@hotmail.com
On Aug 17, 8:05 pm, "Simon S-B" <...@gmail.com
It's the same here in Australia (both Union & League).
And, yes, several of the top rugby schools are well known for handing
out scholarships to large Polynesian boys who have little else going
for them except an ability to run with a ball and bowl over smaller
kids.
Not that that is such a bad thing in the greater scheme of things, but
let's not kid ourselves that it doesn't happen
Higgs
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On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 03:19:45 -0700 (PDT), Brent <...@hotmail.com
On Aug 17, 11:05 am, "Simon S-B" <...@gmail.com
It's important not to overstate the scholarship point - it is not as
if whole teams are populated with ringers. Auckland schools rugby is
dominated by Polynesian players, as is Auckland club rugby, as is
Auckland provincial rugby. This would be the case with or without
scholarship kids. But yes, there's undoubtedly some sort of further
shift in the demographics of players that is driven by scholarship
kids from Samoa/Tonga/Fiji.
Cheers
Brent
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On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 01:21:26 -0700 (PDT), Ben L <...@hotmail.com
On 17 Aug, 11:19, Brent <...@hotmail.com
How long has that been the case? I went on a school rugby tour to NZ
in 1991 and played in Auckland and don't recall many Polynesians -
although we didn't play one of the very top tier teams, either.
I do recall a lot of Polynesians when we played a game in either Upper
or Lower Hutt, though. I also remember them as having a centre of
gravity only marginally above their shins.
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On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 03:51:27 -0700 (PDT), Brent <...@hotmail.com
On Aug 18, 9:21 am, Ben L <...@hotmail.com
When I started playing under 19s in 1994, the only majority pakeha
teams that I played against were University and Pakuranga (and
Pakuranga sucked). Marist, my club, had a 50/50 mix I'd say, and
Ponsonby had a few white guys as did Teachers Eastern. Pretty much
every other club was overwhelmingly/universally Polynesian.
As the years have gone by, well, that's not a demographic trend that's
reversing in Auckland.
In general I'd say Wellington's probably pretty similar to Auckland in
terms of the mix of players you come up against in club rugby.
Cheers
Brent
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On Wed, 19 Aug 2009 01:06:15 +1200, "Andrew Dunford" <...@artifax.net
"Brent" <...@r18g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
Can't comment on the comparison but white players are an endangered species
in Wellington, despite the non-white population being relatively small here.
Old Boys University is just about the only club in the top grade that fields
a predominantly white team.
Plus the balance of power has shifted to Porirua: Northern United reached
the Jubilee Cup final this year despite having something like eleven players
unavailable owing to representative commitments.
Andrew
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On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 11:29:03 +0100, "Simon S-B" <...@gmail.com
"Brent" <...@r18g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
Well bugger me an honest response. Thanks.
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On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 20:38:51 +1200, "Andrew Dunford" <...@artifax.net
"JohnO" <...@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.com...
Indeed not - they usually wait until the kids are 17 or even 18.
Andrew
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On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 01:17:08 -0700 (PDT), Brent <...@hotmail.com
On Aug 17, 9:42 pm, JohnO <...@gmail.com
Actually, yes it does. Not as often as they seem to think, but yes,
it does.
"Sivivatu moved to New Zealand when he was 15. He attended Wesley
College, the school that produced All Blacks great Jonah Lomu."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sitiveni_Sivivatu
He sure as shit wasn't the last.
Cheers
Brent
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On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 01:53:04 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <...@gmail.com
On Aug 18, 8:17 pm, Brent <...@hotmail.com
Doesn't say he was brought over to play though does he? If Wesley was
doing that they'd be a bit more successful wouldn't they?
How do you know his whole family didn't move over for the same reason
most PIs move to NZ?
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On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 02:13:12 -0700 (PDT), Brent <...@hotmail.com
On Aug 18, 9:53 am, JohnO <...@gmail.com
Uhh....
Wesley also has a proud rugby tradition having been the most
successful 1st XV in NZ with 5 national titles (1991, 1993, 1997,
2001, 2004)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wesley_College,_Auckland
Because I know for a fact that he came on a rugby scholarship.
Search for Sivivatu scholarship. And seriously, stop posting. You're
really really wrong.
Cheers
Brent
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On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 04:26:13 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <...@gmail.com
On Aug 18, 9:13 pm, Brent <...@hotmail.com
Yeah ok - there are scholarships. However they add up to a handful per
year against the several hundred thousand PIs that are already born
and bred in NZ. So they are not statistically significant.
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On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 04:35:29 -0700 (PDT), Brent <...@hotmail.com
On Aug 18, 12:26 pm, JohnO <...@gmail.com
Are they statistically significant in terms of total playing numbers?
No, categorically not, I agree entirely.
Are they statistically significant in terms of quality rugby players
coming up through the grades? Not sure. Where does a first XV game
between AGS and Kelston fit into that equation? Again, not sure.
Been too long since I was around the Auckland scene, I don't have a
good feel for it any more.
Cheers
Brent
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On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 14:37:19 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <...@gmail.com
On Aug 18, 11:35 pm, Brent <...@hotmail.com
Well, if you are looking for players in the islands you might find a
few, but there is a a significantly larger pool in Auckland so the
mein bebefit in looking in the islands would be that you might see a
good prospect before anyone else does. It's a smaller pool there, and
a lack of a broad rugby competition would make it hard to spot good
players anyway.
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On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 11:13:48 +0100, "Simon S-B" <...@gmail.com
"Andrew Dunford" <...@mid.individual.net...
Exactly, but it's not one that will get a straight answer because it
involves scholarships and scouting. Far easier just to bring out the race
card and jump on the high horse of political correctness.
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On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 01:56:14 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <...@gmail.com
On Aug 18, 9:22 am, "Simon S-B" <...@gmail.com
I'm eating it in spades!
I went to AGS and indeed they always had a boarder's house. That does
count as living in zone I suppose.
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On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 09:59:27 +0100, "Simon S-B" <...@gmail.com
"JohnO" <...@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
Good on ya. I'll shut the fuck up now then.
>
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On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 23:14:03 +0100, DC <...@yahoo.com
Interesting.
"... I am 19 years old, and I came from the beautiful islands of Fiji.
... I am here on a scholarship given by Kelston Boys High School"
"... I was born in the Fiji Islands in the year 1991. ... This is my
first year at Kelston and it is one of the best years of my schooling
career. ... My goals in coming to New Zealand are, if possible, for an
opportunity to play for a club, NPC Club, Super 14 team or any rugby
players dream, to play for the *All Blacks*."
"... I come from the Islands of Fiji. ... I have been given the
opportunity to study at Kelston Boys High School as an International and
Scholarship student. ... My goal is to get a rugby contract and make a
life in New Zealand."
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On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 23:35:53 +0100, "Simon S-B" <...@gmail.com
"DC" <...@newsfe01.ams2...
I believe that's game, set and match.
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On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 23:23:59 -0700 (PDT), ruggeryoda <...@gmail.com
On Aug 18, 12:14 am, DC <...@yahoo.com
Holy shit. Thats all I can say...
-R
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On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 07:58:12 +0100, "Simon S-B" <...@gmail.com
"ruggeryoda" <...@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
Apparently, that's more than the Kiwis can manage.
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On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 00:20:58 -0700 (PDT), ruggeryoda <...@gmail.com
On Aug 18, 8:58 am, "Simon S-B" <...@gmail.com
Yeah yeah, we can live with the fact that you're about as good as mg
on the googling front but lets keep the pants on now shall we?
-R
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On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 08:50:12 +0100, "Simon S-B" <...@gmail.com
"ruggeryoda" <...@g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
After years of basically abusing anyone who suggests that this is going on,
why should I be giving them a break? Even in this thread they've lined up to
declare these pupils New Zealanders and patted each other on the back for
doing so, they've banged on about it being the demographic of the catchment
area, they've denied there are scholarships and they've played the race card
which really, really pisses me off. I tell you what, I'll shut up when I see
some humble pie being eaten.
Apologies to Brent and Andrew D who as usual shot straight.
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On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 01:01:11 -0700 (PDT), ruggeryoda <...@gmail.com
On Aug 18, 9:50 am, "Simon S-B" <...@gmail.com
Sorry to say but this opens up a plethora of other questions. Maybe
time for a new thread?
-R
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On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 09:02:52 +0100, "Simon S-B" <...@gmail.com
"ruggeryoda" <...@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
There is one, and the silence is deafening hence my remark.
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On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 20:37:57 +1200, "Andrew Dunford" <...@artifax.net
"Simon S-B" <...@news.eternal-september.org...
Although it has been shown that JohnO doesn't know what he's talking about,
I'm not convinced that you've proved your original point - that the reason
for the large number of Polynesians in the team is rugby scholarships. It
may well be the case that without scholarships there would simply be a
local, less good Polynesian playing in that position instead.
Andrew
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On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 09:55:44 +0100, "Simon S-B" <...@gmail.com
"Andrew Dunford" <...@mid.individual.net...
Well, one article found 3 Fijians in the Kelston 1st XV on scholarships,
which would suggest it is likely there are more.
It
A good point, but one we'll never know the answer to because the scholarship
kids are there. I'm sure a number of the players in the side are what you
refer to as local Polynesians, born and bred New Zealanders, and I accept
that a large part of the reason for this is that they mature quicker than
the white kids.
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On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 01:59:52 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <...@gmail.com
On Aug 18, 7:50 pm, "Simon S-B" <...@gmail.com
Simon,. don't lose perspective. A school like AGS has a roll of over
2000 kids and has hundreds of PI kids. One or two PIs who came on on
scholarships are hardly changing the demographic are they?
Note the scholarship application form for AGS requires academic info
but not sporting.
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On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 10:01:52 +0100, "Simon S-B" <...@gmail.com
"JohnO" <...@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
So did the Millfield one, and trust me it was irrelevant.
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On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 04:18:39 -0700 (PDT), Brent <...@hotmail.com
On Aug 18, 8:50 am, "Simon S-B" <...@gmail.com
But hang on a sec though. You're using this as post facto
justification for the fucking garbage about raping the pacific islands
that the NH press has perpetrated for years? Because that is really
not in any way accurate. There's a real issue going forward, and a
legit criticism to be levelled to the extent these guys make it
through to the All Blacks. But Sivivatu aside, I'm not aware that
anyone else currently playing for NZ has a sketchy background.
Read this article:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/rugby_union/article538345.ece
Cheers
Brent
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On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:18:30 +0100, "Simon S-B" <...@gmail.com
"Brent" <...@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com...
No. I'm simply saying that all those who deny that Kiwi scouts go to the
Islands and offer the best players scholarships, then use the "they received
their rugby education here" line are full of shit. Call it what it is -
everyone is at it.
Mate, have a look at the side you've named for the weekend. You'll find less
grey area players there than in the England lineup. It would be a naive man
that didn't think the academies will find a way of getting some 16 year old
Polynesian boys over soon as well, then use the residency ruling to get them
in white.
Good article.
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On Wed, 19 Aug 2009 01:20:57 +1200, "Andrew Dunford" <...@artifax.net
"Simon S-B" <...@news.eternal-september.org...
Considering how many scholarship players there have been in the past five or
ten years as mentioned in that article, it's worth asking why so few of them
have as yet graduated to the All Blacks. Or indeed why the current
Auckland team is so rubbish. Interestingly Porirua, a town of 50,000 people
which is part of the Wellington region is arguably producing more rugby
talent than the whole of Auckland at the moment, most of it Pacific
Islanders who have lived in New Zealand since childhood or were born here.
Andrew
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On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 06:27:38 -0700 (PDT), Brent <...@hotmail.com
On Aug 18, 2:20 pm, "Andrew Dunford" <...@artifax.net
I wonder how many of them find their way quite quickly to the NH or
Japan.
Cheers
Brent
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On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 06:31:00 -0700 (PDT), JD <...@bigpond.com
On Aug 18, 11:27 pm, Brent <...@hotmail.com
I wonder how many of them wouldn't have had the opportunity if they
didn't go to school in New Zealand and get coached...
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On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 03:08:35 -0700 (PDT), Luluwazazulu <...@yahoo.co.nz
On Aug 18, 7:50 pm, "Simon S-B" <...@gmail.com
I for one do not deny that there are scholarships! Its a fact and
cannot be denied!
I am not aware of the number of scholarships,It would not be huge
given the parlous state of education funding in this Country.
More to the point,the "poaching" of players from one school to another
has been a widespread problem in many NZ cities.
However I do take exception to the observation that players "are of
pacific island extraction" as if that means by implication that they
are somehow or other automatically under suspicion of being " not real
new zealanders" or on some sort of Rugby Scholarship
I may be a little sensitive about this matter because of my polynesian
ancestry i.e. at least some of my ancestors came to NZ by canoe some
700 years ago!
I get the impression that among certain types of rugby follower in the
UK a person who is not "white" cannot ever really be considered
"British" and they also seem to have the view that only Maoris or
descendants of "British" settlers can ever be considered NZers!
Cheers
Lew
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On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 11:47:57 +0100, "Simon S-B" <...@gmail.com
"Luluwazazulu" <...@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...
If the scholarships are handed out by the state, you can't blame us for
thinking this is a state policy. In some ways, this is worse than when it
happens at privately funded schools.
No. It just means that their ancestors are PI and not UK. It's very
difficult in these PC bezerk times to know what to call people and I
apologize if that offends. I am not suggesting this makes them any less New
Zealanders.
I think you may be, and you're not alone.
It's certainly not an impression I meant to give nor a view I hold. I
appreciate a huge proportion of New Zealanders are of Polynesian ancestry.
I've not got a problem with migration, hell I've worked abroad half of my
life. I consider anyone who learns the language and pays their taxes as a
welcome addition to the UK. It helps to balance out all the benefit grabbing
work-shy scum of UK origin. I consider Monye, the Armitages et al as
British. I draw the line at Flutey though!
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On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 11:47:57 +0100, "Simon S-B" <...@gmail.com
"Luluwazazulu" <...@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...
If the scholarships are handed out by the state, you can't blame us for
thinking this is a state policy. In some ways, this is worse than when it
happens at privately funded schools.
No. It just means that their ancestors are PI and not UK. It's very
difficult in these PC bezerk times to know what to call people and I
apologize if that offends. I am not suggesting this makes them any less New
Zealanders.
I think you may be, and you're not alone.
It's certainly not an impression I meant to give nor a view I hold. I
appreciate a huge proportion of New Zealanders are of Polynesian ancestry.
I've not got a problem with migration, hell I've worked abroad half of my
life. I consider anyone who learns the language and pays their taxes as a
welcome addition to the UK. It helps to balance out all the benefit grabbing
work-shy scum of UK origin. I consider Monye, the Armitages et al as
British. I draw the line at Flutey though!
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On Wed, 19 Aug 2009 12:19:38 +1200, Lodi <...@ccr.com
Sorry to say but that's the impression you're giving.
As far as I'm concerned anyone who aligns themselves with the "raping the
islands" faction is ignorant when it comes to NZ.
We don't have much going for us so when you criticize two areas in which we
do reasonably well (rugby and race relations) I get really annoyed.
Especially when you're judging our society on the results of a couple of
google searches.
Your attitude of "I'm right, I've always been right and you're all wrong"
from 12,000 miles away is arrogance.
Congratulations for proving what we already knew, that some NZ schools offer
sports scholarships. To then extrapolate that, as the "raping the islands"
faction does, to the belief that any brown skin kiwi isn't a "real" kiwi
is......words fail me.
Feel free to hurl abuse/platitudes/justifications. It'll be pretty much
ignored until you get back to talking rugby.
Lodi
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On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 23:10:48 -0700 (PDT), "Dave (SA)" <...@gmail.com
On Aug 19, 2:19 am, Lodi <...@ccr.com
Gee Lodi you can be as sensitive as a South African when they touch
the race nerve ;-)
I don't believe that NZ is raping the islands (except if I feel like
winding someone up the I will deny I was serious here)
However I do think that you are being oversensitive about the guys
saying that 'brown skins' are not true NZers (yes there may be 1 or 2
crackpots but I don't think hats what they are saying).
My view is simple. If someone is born or spends their formative years
in the respective country then they are true NZers etc. So if at the
age of 5 a boy and his Samoan family moves to NZ then I will class
that boy as a 'true' NZer and his parents as a 'true' Samoan.
I honestly don't think that race has much to do with it. Certainly not
in my formula
My own country has recently lost a few sportsman to immigration.
Whilst I hold nothing against them I won't consider Brad Barritt a
true Englishman. (Nor KP, nor Vickerman nor Rawlinson)
They may well be eligible to play for England, Aus and NZ respectively
but they don't pass my 'true' countryman test.
I don't think one can use eligibility as any measure. I am eligible to
play for England. The fact that I was crap, and I am now over 40 aside
- Even if I move to England, I would not be an Englishman. South
African till I die wherever I live (according to my test.
As to the scholarships - Well if scholarships set out to get young
players from other countries (regardless of country or colour) with
the intention of turning them into NZers then I could agree that the
action is of dubious ethics and people are entitled to criticize.
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