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Re: Verhaegen - where it all began...

On Mon, 02 Mar 2009 21:22:26 +0100, Marc Verhaegen <...@skynet.be

11.4.98:

thanks a lot - interesting - some comments between brackets

Hi all. I'm only a few days on the internet. For about 20 years - a few
years after I read Elaine Morgan's The Descent of Woman - I'm trying to get
AAT papers published in scientific/anthropological journals, but many
editors are rather conservative and refuse such papers.
(Many scientists appear to be extremely good in reproducing the ideas of
their professors and are remarkably resistant to new ideas. How many years
were needed before now obvious theories were accepted: Alfred Wegener's
continental drift theory, or the theory that the earth was round, or that
the sun circled around the earth?)
I just read Jim Moore's website Who thought up the aquatic ape theory? (a
lot of work, but unfortunately superficial, outdated and biased), as well as
some AAT discussions on the internet, and I felt rather disappointed that
many people who think they have to discuss the AAT (pro as well as con) seem
to have read only part of the relevant literature (eg, one or two books of
Elaine Morgan), and what they have read, they have sometimes not read well.
As for the more scientific works, I never found any reference to Erika
Schagatay's book on the so-called diving reflex: The Human Diving Response -
Effects of Temperature and Training, Univ.Lund Sweden 1996.
An other recent publication is CL Broadhurst et al.1998 Rift Valley lake
fish and shellfish provided brain-specific nutrition for early Homo,
Brit.J.Nutr.79, 3-21. An anti-AAT paper (merely a repetition of Moore's
website) is JH Langdon 1997 Umbrella hypootheses and parsimony in human
evolution: a critique of the AAT, J.hum.Evol.33, 479-494. I then sent a
pro-AAT paper to J.hum.Evol., but it was refused, so-called because it
contained no new information and scient.journals only publish original
contributions. (Perhaps I had forgotten to mention the editor's recent
book?)
For those interested I give here a list of most of my work on human
evolution ...

It's often thought (even by AATers) that the semi-aquatic phase happened
more than 5 Ma or so, but there is firm evidence (paleo-milieu etc. ) that
semi-aquatic adaptations lasted until, and perhaps even got intensified
since, the Pleistocene about 2 Ma. I have a long list of citations from
anthropol.papers that proves that all Australopithecus and Homo species
dwelt in wet or humid environments (the list will be provided on demand).
Here follows an abstract of what I intend to send for the anthropological
Dual Congress in South Africa this summer:
Wetland apes: hominid palaeo-environment and diet - The combination of data
from different anthropological researches makes it clear that hominid
evolution did not begin in warm and dry but in warm and wet conditions.
a. Not one single feature typical of savannah mammals is found in humans:
low or absent need of drinking-water or succulent food; concentrated urine
(high diurnal body temperatures ((up tot 10°C); high running velocities (50-100km/h); hoof- or toe-running;
lean body built; poorly developed vocalisations; low handiness, etc.
b. Comparative studies of cheekteeth microwear suggest that the
australopithecine diet included marshland plants (P.F. Puech 1992
Scann.Microsc.6:1083). In A.afarensis, the enamel has a polished surface
(e.g. mountain beaver, capybara: sappy aquatic plants and grasses, buds and
bark of young trees). In A.boisei, it displays more pits, wide parallel
striations and deep recessed dentine (e.g. beaver: aquatic plants, bark,
more woody parts). In A. or H.habilis, the margins of the striae have been
polished and slightly etched (e.g. coypu: reed, sedges, marsh plants,
fruits, molluscs).
c. Robust australopiths (boisei & robustus) resemble the bamboo-eating
bamboo-lemurs and the giant panda in front teeth reduction and cheekteeth
broadening (E.L. DuBrul 1977 Am.J.phys.Anthrop.47:305), and estimates of the
robusts¹ bite force also suggest ³low-energy foodŠ to be processed in large
quantitiesŠ hard and round in shape² (B. Demes 1988 J.hum.Evol.17:657).

(Bamboo is less certain now: isotopic data seem to contradict this. It's
still not sure why they had superthick enamel. Alan Shabel thinks their diet
might have included hard-shelled invertebrates. Certainly a possibility IMO.
They probably ate papyrus sedges & cane etc., but I don't know whether that
can explain the superthick enamel. --MV)

d. The low strontium/calcium ratios in Swartkrans A.robustus have been
explained by partial carnivory (unlikely with their herbivorous dentition),
eating leaves and shoots of forbs and woody plants (e.g, kudu) and eating
food from wet, well-drained streamside soils (A.Sillen 1992
J.hum.Evol.23:495).
e. Palaeo-ecology indicates that early australopithecines (A.afarensis...)
lived in warm, humid and often forested landscapes. Robust australopiths
dwelt near more open environments such as grasslands, marshlands and
lagoons. Homo species (rudolfensis, erectus..) are often found near ancient
lakes, seas and rivers where molluscs were abundant. The australopithecines
were apish relatives of humans, probably not direct ancestors.

(This is now fully accepted by PAs. --MV)

We suggest that early australopiths became partial bipedalists in shallow
waters, somewhat like western lowland gorillas when wading in forest
clearings, eating sedges and aquatic plants (D.Chadwik 1995
Natl.Geogr.188:2). The robusts later dwelt in more open riverside and
marshland habitats, supplementing their diet (in the dry season?) with woody
plants, papyrus, reed etc.

(Since then (1998) the Dikika child has been found. Impressions on its
hyoid suggest it had a very large laryngeal airsac. This sac can have
different functions (eg, singing, but the child was prepuberal). One of
these was floating in the wetlands where they lived. Recent wildlife films
show lowland gorillas floating +-2 hours/day in bais with only head (IOW,
they're no wading) & hands (IOW, they're no swimming) above the surface,
eating aquatic herbaceous vegetation. As DD noticed: their airsac (up to 6
litres in adult male gorillas & orangs = c 5-10 % of body volume?), which
extend to the axillas & prethoracally, keep them floating. The Mio-Pliocene
was c 4-2°C hotter than today (& wetter), and it's exactly in the hottests &
wettest places on earth today that these floating gorillas live.
PAs now generally consider the possibility that the robust apith diet
included sedges & wetland plants, eg, papyrus, see papers, eg, by Van der
Merwe cs & Wrangham. Within a few years this will be generally accepted by
intelligent PAs. --MV)

We think that early Homo was more omnivorous and learned to use stones to
crack nuts and shellfish as mangrove capuchins (M.Fernandes 1991 Primates
32:529) or sea-otters do. This would explain the development of stone tool
use for other purposes, the rapid dispersal of H.erectus outside Africa (eg,
his early colonisation of Flores and crossing of Gibraltar, and his remains
on seacoasts from Mojokerto to Hopefield, Rabat, Boxgrove or Terra Amata),
and the dramatic increase in brain size (S.C.Cunnane 1993 Nutr.Health
9:219). All comments are very welcome.

(Not all comments were welcome: a lot were extremely biased, stupid &
aggressive, and unfortunately we still find some of these idiots here.
In any case:
- Leading PAs (Tobias, Stringer etc.) now generally consider the possibility
that Homo populations dispersed along the coasts.
- The Flores fossils confirm the early colonisation of S.Asia by Homo.
- The recent H.erectus footprints in mudflats confirm the littoral
hypothesis. Etc. --MV)



On Mon, 2 Mar 2009 12:47:57 -0800 (PST), Lee Olsen <...@hotmail.com

http://preview.tinyurl.com/cllc8o

Thanks to the heads-up research by Ross Macfarlane for finding this,
we can now see that professional anthropologists file the wetloon
theory under pseudoscience (see bottom of page) where it belongs.


On Tue, 03 Mar 2009 00:46:43 +0100, Marc Verhaegen <...@skynet.be

savanna fantast:

:-D

savanna nonsense = fairy tales

delusional fools call Stringer & Tobias & Goves etc unprofessional

why don't these loons inform a bit??


Tobias 1995 “We were all profoundly and unutterably wrong! … All the
former savannah supporters (including myself) must now swallow our earlier
words …”
Wood 1996 “the ‘savannah’ hypothesis of human origins, in which the
cooling begat the savannah and the savannah begat humanity, is now
discredited”
Stringer 1997 “One of the strong points about the aquatic theory is in
explaining the origin of bipedality. If our ancestors did go into the water,
that would forced them to walk upright …”
Tobias 1998 “Bamford identified fossil vines or lianas of Dichapetalum
in the same Member 4: such vines hang from forest trees and would not be
expected in open savannah. The team at Makapansgat found floral and faunal
evidence that the layers containing Australopithecus reflected forest or
forest margin conditions. From Hadar, in Ethiopia, where ‘Lucy’ was found,
and from Aramis in Ethiopia, where Tim White’s team found Ardipithecus
ramidus … well-wooded and even forested conditions were inferred from the
fauna accompanying the hominid fossils. All the fossil evidence adds up to
the small-brained, bipedal hominids of four to 2.5 Ma having lived in a
woodland or forest niche, not savannah.” “… if ever our earliest ancestors
were savannah dwellers, we must have been the worst, the most profligate
urinators there”
Stringer 2001 “In the past I have agreed that we lack plausible models
for the origins of bipedalism and have agreed that wading in water can
facilitate bipedal locomotion (as observed in other normally quadrupedal
primates). I have never said that this must have been the forcing mechanism
in hominids, but I do consider it plausible. As for coastal colonisation, I
argued in my Nature News & Views last year that this was an event in the
late Pleistocene that may have facilitated the spread of modern humans.”
Groves & Cameron 2004 “Nor can we exclude the Aquatic Ape Hypothesis.
Elaine Morgan has long argued that many aspects of human anatomy are best
explained as a legacy of a semiaquatic phase in the proto-human trajectory,
and this includes upright posture to cope with increased water depth as our
ancestors foraged farther and further from the lake or seashore.”
Wrangham 2005 “Here I follow the conventional assumption that hominins
began in the savanna.” “… the composition of the Okavango as a network of
islands could favor the evolution of bipedalism. For those who envisage
bipedalism as facilitated by the need to traverse or exploit aquatic
environments, an inland delta that generates low islands termitogenically or
hydrodynamically offers rich scenarios.”
Alemseged 2006 “I believe we should just put the savannah theory aside.
I think they basically became biped while they were living in a wooded,
covered environment …”
Thorpe et al. 2007 “… early hominins occupied woodland environments, not
open or even bush-savannah environments (such as sites including Allia Bay,
Aramis, Assa Issie and now Laetoli) ... they retained long grasping
forelimbs, which are more obviously relevant in an arboreal context…”



On Mon, 2 Mar 2009 16:07:38 -0800 (PST), Lee Olsen <...@hotmail.com

On Mar 2, 3:46 pm, Marc Verhaegen <...@skynet.be

Says the wetloon who thinks mountain beavers are semiaquaric.

The reason you plagiarized words from John Hawks' web page is because
you were afraid everyone would see AAT filed under pseudoscience.

Here is what a real anthropologist has to say:

Message-ID: <...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.comJason Eshleman: "You, Marc, are a low-life, a real sleazebag
sociopath.
If it makes you feel better to repeat ad nauseum that no one has an
argument
against your scenario, you really ought to get your medication
adjusted. It might
actually make you less of a dickhead.
You are asking for someone to contradict something
that you've not made a case for. You are asking someone to prove a
negative. This isn't science, though I suspect you don't know what
science is and as such will continue your mentally ill diatribes."


On Tue, 03 Mar 2009 02:09:02 +0100, Marc Verhaegen <...@skynet.be

SF:

??
:-D
you're crazy

On Tue, 3 Mar 2009 13:22:00 -0800 (PST), Lee Olsen <...@hotmail.com

On Mar 2, 5:09 pm, Marc Verhaegen <...@skynet.be
Where did you get this?

Path: g2news1.google.com!news4.google.com!goblin3!goblin2!
goblin.stu.neva.ru!feed1.news.be.easynet.net!news.skynet.be!
195.238.0.222.MISMATCH!newsspl501.isp.belgacom.be!tjb!not-for-mail
User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.3.6.070618
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 11:08:01 +0100
Subject: Homo: glacials = more marine exploitation?
From: Marc Verhaegen <...@skynet.beNewsgroups: sci.anthropology.paleo
Message-ID: <...@skynet.beThread-Topic: Homo: glacials = more marine exploitation?
Thread-Index: AcmU1XGBsE75iADIEd6SwAAX8siVHQ==
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X-Complaints-To: usen...@skynet.be

Neandertal diet was not dolphin-safe

Chris Stringer and colleagues (including Finlayson and Barton) have a
paper
in the current PNAS early bin describing Neandertal exploitation of
marine
mammals in the Gibraltar caves (Vanguard and Gorham's). The
Neandertals left
some seals and dolphin bones with cutmarks behind, along with a lot of
mollusk shells.

When I pulled up the paper, it sounded very familiar to me, like I'd
written
about it before. And indeed, I had, although I hadn't posted the
results. A
couple of years ago I was doing some research on the Gibraltar caves
and I
ran across a website from Oxford covering the Gibraltar excavations.
The
page (at the time) included this passage:...........

On Mon, 2 Mar 2009 16:03:44 -0800 (PST), mclark <...@comcast.net

On Mar 2, 5:46 pm, Marc Verhaegen <...@skynet.be
[Standard WL boilerplate]

So would modern "footprints in mudflats" confirm the littoral
hypothesis too then, Marco? Inquiring minds want to know.

Say, what did you do w/ Algis? Didn't he like his spankin'?
-----------------------------------------------
"You apparently don't know what "scientists"
are." Marco -- 02/26/2008

On Tue, 03 Mar 2009 01:39:47 +0100, Marc Verhaegen <...@skynet.be

SF thinks he's an inuiring m:ind... :-DDD

On Mon, 2 Mar 2009 17:33:21 -0800 (PST), mclark <...@comcast.net

On Mar 2, 6:39 pm, Marc Verhaegen <...@skynet.be
What the hell is an "inuiring m:ind", Marco?

----------------------------------------------------
"Are you a liar? or an imbecil?"
Marco --11/30/2002

On Mon, 2 Mar 2009 20:23:05 -0800 (PST), rmacfarl <...@alphalink.com.au

And what about the fact that, as Gerrit has helpfully pointed out in
another thread, these are *not* "erectus footprints in mudflats"? -

"
Actually, what the paper and supplementary material say is this: "The
footprints occur within a 9-m-thick sequence of fine-grained, normally
graded, silt and sand units deposited as overbank flood deposits with
evidence of paleosol development."
"At FwJj14E the sedimentary succession consists of a series of
fine-grained silt and medium to coarsegrained sand with a variety of
cross-beds consistent with over-bank deposits from a near by stream or
river. There are a variety of fining-upwards sequences at a range of
scales, but several large-cycles can be identified (Fig. 1). Each
cycle represents a flood event culminating in a finer-grained silt
layer. Animal and hominin prints occur on the bedding plane surfaces
of these silt-clay layers and were probably imprinted around
contracting water pools following a flood event."

So, this does not suggest a lakeside mudflat, it suggests a seasonal
floodplain along a stream or river. Given the Okote Member faunal list
this would be readily recognized as a savanna environment, probably
somewhat at the wetter end of the spectrum.

Gerrit
"

Does Marc agree that this does not "confirm the littoral hypothesis"?

Ross Macfarlane

"If I wrote that at the time, I meant that. Whether it was correct is
something else."
- Marc Verhaegen, 11 Jan. 2005.

On Tue, 03 Mar 2009 12:23:53 +0100, Marc Verhaegen <...@skynet.be

SFs think they're inquiring minds?? :-DDD
pathetic loons


SFs think biases are helpful...
who's interested in what savanna believers believe??

SFs omit: "These prints (GaJi10) occur in a succession of fine-grained silts
interpreted at the time to be a lake margin environment, a conclusion
supported by the presence of wading birds and hippopotamus prints."

or beach : "Sefton Coast where Neolithic to Bronze Age (BP)(S16) footprints are periodically exposed in coastal sediments of North
West England. This population is well constrained geochronologically,
deposited in a similar soft, wet, silt to fine sand as are the prints from
FwJj14E"

On Tue, 3 Mar 2009 06:18:37 -0800 (PST), mclark <...@comcast.net

On Mar 3, 5:23 am, Marc Verhaegen <...@skynet.be
So are you going to answer the question or not?

[blah, blah]
-------------------------------------------------------------
"[B]elieving something without the slightest
proof = ridiculous" Marco --02/27/2009

On Tue, 03 Mar 2009 19:56:09 +0100, Marc Verhaegen <...@skynet.be

Op 03-03-2009 15:18, in artikel
8ae3...@w24g2000prd.googlegroups.com, mclark
<...@comcast.net

what question my boy??

if you want to know something you have to ask it politely & precisely

On Tue, 3 Mar 2009 11:55:00 -0800 (PST), mclark <...@comcast.net

On Mar 3, 12:56 pm, Marc Verhaegen <...@skynet.be
So would modern "footprints in mudflats" confirm the littoral
hypothesis too, then, Marco?

On Tue, 03 Mar 2009 17:52:40 +0100, Gerrit Hanenburg <...@inter.nl.nomail.net

Marc Verhaegen <...@skynet.be

Note, that FwJj14E and GaJi10 are two entirely diffferent sites,
representing different sets of prints. The latter is in area 103, just
south of Koobi Fora, and was first excavated in 1978/79. The former is
in area 1A 5 km east of Ileret and was excavated between 2005 and
2008. The two sites are some 50 km apart.

The authors are quite clear with regard to the depositional
environment of FwJj14E: "At FwJj14E the sedimentary succession
consists of a series of fine-grained silt and medium to coarsegrained
sand with a variety of cross-beds consistent with over-bank deposits
from a near by stream or river". It does not say beach or coastal
sediments. The phrase "similar, soft, wet, silt to fine sand" is only
a reference to texture not to environment.

Gerrit

On Tue, 03 Mar 2009 19:55:12 +0100, Marc Verhaegen <...@skynet.be

Different sets, yes, but both probably Homo & presumably ergaster.
These people were people of the lake (term of R.Leakey?), not of the
savanna.

Similar textures may be expected in similar milieus. There's nothing (except
the well-known savanna biases) that excludes a beach. I'm not saying it is,
but it's short-minded not to consider the possibility. Besides, the
presence of stingrays in Turkana c 1.8 Ma suggests a marine connection.

On Tue, 3 Mar 2009 13:30:16 -0800 (PST), Lee Olsen <...@hotmail.com

On Mar 3, 10:55 am, Marc Verhaegen <...@skynet.be

'People of the Lake' by R. Leakey (1978, with Roger Lewin) is a pop
book from ancient history.
It is not a site report. Out-of-date pop books are your level of
expertise.


On Tue, 03 Mar 2009 23:17:11 +0100, Marc Verhaegen <...@skynet.be



SF too stupid to answer:

On Tue, 3 Mar 2009 15:05:10 -0800 (PST), Lee Olsen <...@hotmail.com

On Mar 3, 2:17 pm, Marc Verhaegen <...@skynet.be
WL too stupid to read up-to-date material.


On Sun, 08 Mar 2009 22:46:14 -0600, RichTravsky <...@hotmMOVEail.com

AFs omit

A full ichnotaxonomy of the animal prints present on this surface is the subject
of ongoing research, but so far includes the following (Fig. S13C-F): (1) bovids,
(2) carnivores including potential felid prints, (3) equids, and (4) a.


AF confuses Bronze Age with 1.5 mya

> FwJj14E"

On Mon, 09 Mar 2009 23:53:34 +0100, Marc Verhaegen <...@skynet.be

Op 09-03-2009 05:46, in artikel 49B4...@hotmMOVEail.com,
RichTravsky <...@hotmMOVEail.com

liar or just stupid
both of course


On Tue, 10 Mar 2009 09:56:13 -0700 (PDT), mclark <...@comcast.net

On Mar 9, 5:53 pm, Marc Verhaegen <...@skynet.be[blah, blah]

[the rest of it]

Nice argument you've got there, Marco.
------------------------------------------------------
"SF doesn't know what polite & concise is."
Marco --03/06/2009

Discussion Title: Re: Verhaegen - where it all began...
Title Keywords: Verhaegen  where  began...