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Re: What is the IPCC ?

On Mon, 27 Apr 2009 09:55:10 -0700 (PDT), "leo...@gmail.com" <...@gmail.com

On Apr 26, 9:25 pm, z <...@snail-mail.net

•• That is nothing more than enviro-fascist propaganda
Nothing factual there.

•• SSSsssuuuuurrree! The iceman cometh. 12,000
years since the end of the last age ~~ that makes
itn due.

•• First of all, not one of those explanations has stood
up in real time. Computer modeling gives one
BSI = BSO

•• Arrogant nonsense!!! The Earth and the rest of
the Solar system is controlled by the sun. To even
imagine one can control the sun in any way is stupid

•• More stupid nonsense!!

IT'S GLOBAL COOLING... AND IT'S DEADLY
By: Phil Brennan

Unless you've been living in an igloo in some desolate
arctic region bereft of any form of communication with the
outside world it should become obvious that the world has
been undergoing some pretty violent episodes of extreme
weather, destruction by fire of vast forest areas, and
incredible amounts of rainfall resulting in floods of an
unprecedented magnitude from Texas to England and just
about everyplace else.

If you've been following my series on global cooling
starting in 1997, none of this will come as a surprise.
These are all symptoms of an approaching ice age -
symptoms, the record shows, present prior to the
onset of all previous ice ages.

Before I get further into this, let me make it clear that I am
not predicting the sudden appearance of great sheets of
ice descending on the northern U.S. And Europe and
burying New York under a few miles of ice in the near
future - that's 30,000 years away and doesn't concern us
- at least those of us who don't plan to be around then.

What concerns me, and should concern you, is the period
that precedes the onset of glaciation. As I wrote back in
1997* and have harped on ever since, is the fact that the
historical records show that the period between the switch
from interglacial interludes and the return of glaciation is
about 20 short years.

Moreover, as the earth proceeds through that 20 year
period, all hell breaks loose, with each year getting worse
and more violent than the previous one. Mother Nature
appears to go more and more berserk each year and by
the time that glaciation begins to set in Mother earth and
its inhabitants- us - are devastated - if still alive - to say
the least.

Do I have your attention now?

Before you accuse me of being a demented alarmist take
a look at some facts. In my 1997 series, The IceMan
Cometh, I wrote of studies by Dr. George Kukla a member
of the Czechoslovakian Academy of Sciences and a
pioneer in the field of astronomical forcing.

I explained that in the early 1960s, Dr.Kukla and Julius
Fink examined glacial loess deposits and found evidence
of ten ice ages in the samples. Later, in 1977, the journal
Quaternary Research published their findings in an article
"Pleistocene Climates in Central Europe: At least 17
Interglacials after the Olduvai Event."

Now comes the Financial Post's Lawrence Solomon with
a piece "Forget Warming - beware the next new ice age,"
in which he discusses Dr. Kukla's warnings harking back
to the 1970s and his present contentions.Solomon himself
is executive director of Urban Renaissance Institute and
Consumer Policy Institute, divisions of Energy Probe
Research Foundation. He has recently written about and
identified many scientists who deny the claims of Al Gore
and his chums who claim fasely that all reputable
scientists say the science is settled and that's it!

Before I cite Solomon's article I want to dispel any
questions skeptics might have about Dr. Kukla and
his solid credentials. According Solomon Dr. Kukla
is a micropalentologist and Special Research
Scientist at the Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory
of Columbia University, and is a pioneer in the study
of solar forcing of climate changes. He was the lead
author of the scientific paper that first supported
Milutin Milankovic's theory of glacial cycles by
investigating the stratigraphy in deep-sea sediment
cores from the southern Indian Ocean. In the cores
were clear imprints of Milankovic's proposed cycles.
In his paper he wrote, "We are certain now that
changes in the Earth's orbital geometry caused the
ice ages. The evidence is so strong that other
explanations must now be discarded or modified." Prior
to joining Columbia in 1971, he had published landmark
studies in Czechoslovakia, where he was a member of
the Czechoslovakian Academy of Sciences.

O.K. Here's what Dr. Kukla says now. He maintains that
the record clearly shows that global warming always
precedes an ice age. That makes the current period of
global warming a mere blip that constitutes additional
indication of the ice age to come.

He insists that the fundamental issue here could not be
more clear: For millions of years, the geologic record
shows, Earth has experienced an ongoing cycle of ice
ages, each typically lasting about 100,000 years, and
each punctuated by briefer, warmer periods called
interglacials, such as the one we are now in. This
ongoing cycle closely matches cyclic variations in
Earth's orbit around the sun.

"I feel we're on pretty solid ground in interpreting orbit
around the sun as the primary driving force behind
ice-age glaciation. The relationship is just too clear and
consistent to allow reasonable doubt," Dr. Kukla said.
"It's either that, or climate drives orbit, and that just
doesn't make sense."

In 1997 I wrote about the 20 year period between
interglacial periods and glaciation. I quoted paleologist-
pollen specialist Genevieve Woillard as writing in a 1979
Nature article about that period. She wrote that the only
real question remaining is how long it will take for the
glaciation process to set in.

Woillard reported on her studies of pollen samples in a
lake bottom in South Vosges, France. She wrote that at
the start of a number of past glacial periods, the
vegetation changed from temperate zone trees to
subarctic needle-bearing trees in a period of 150 years
plus or minus 75 years. The change was one of gradual
deterioration until the last 20 years. During that final
score of years, the type of vegetation completely changed.

What her studies, and those of other paleoclimatologists
who have examined past ice ages show, is that the
transition between interglacial and glacial periods is one
of increasing violence -- more volcanic eruptions, storms,
earthquakes and other natural disasters.

To sum up, here are a few facts - that's facts, not the
computer models (guesses) that pass for evidence in the
global warming community:

For at least the past five million years, the earth has
experienced ice ages lasting 90,000 years or so, followed
by interglacial periods like the present one that last about
12,000 years.

The last ice age ended 12,000 years ago.

Every time the atmospheric levels of CO2 have exceeded
300 ppms an ice age has occurred. Those levels now
exceed 400 ppms.

The transition period between ice ages and temperate
climates is about 20 years and that period is one of
increasing violence.

Galciation is an acceleration of the normal process of
using evaporated water to carry heat energy from the
warm zones to cold zones. The effect of an increase in
atmospheric greenhouse gases such as water vapor - the
real grenhouse gas - is to increase cloud cover over polar
latitudes. The clouds have a cooling effect as well as
providing the snow for glaciation. The energy is dissipated
in arctic space. Spring and Fall seasons get shorter and
shorter until all that's left is winter.

To get to the point of all of this, let me quote what I write
back in 1997 about the opinions of former government
scientist Dr. George Kaplan, the real historian of the
global warming/global cooling dispute.

"Has the warming theory 'campaign' been the last stand
of an arrant scientific ideology?" he asked "Such a
hypothesis can be acceptable to some, but the obvious
failing of the theory in the face of global catastrophe
argues for a more substantial motivation.

"It would pay to investigate this motivation further to
consider whether politics has been responsive to poor
science or whether economics and politics have made
false tools out of science for narrow interest.

"If the latter is true the manipulation and subversion of
the truth seeking apparatus by political and private
interests is, in the present situation, of such extreme
malevolence that it ranks as the greatest malfeasance
in history."

Exactly.

In short, what Al Gore and his supporters are doing is
nothing short of criminal . At a time in the world's history
when mankind faces a catastrophe unlike anything in the
entire history of humanity (all human history from Adam
and Eve to the present has taken place in the last 12,000
years) the Goreites lull us into a false belief that global
warming is not only happening, but can be prevented. This
at a time when what we should be doing is getting
spiritually prepared for what may well be the end of an age,
if not of the world. If the past is really prologue, the next
five years is going to be something close to a gradually
occurring Armageddon.

- -
The evidence from Mars destroys the notion that
humans are responsible for warming Earth. Mars
has global warming, but without a greenhouse
and without the participation of Martians.

Dr Habibullo Abdussamatov

marsprogram.jpl.nasa.gov/odyssey/newsroom/pressreleases/20031208a.html



On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 19:03:19 -0700 (PDT), z <...@snail-mail.net

On Apr 27, 12:55 pm, "leo...@gmail.com" <...@gmail.comwrote:

good to see you didn't read down far enough to realize that this is
the report commissioned by the "Global Climate Coalition" in **1995**.
You remember them; American Petroleum Institute, Exxon Mobil,
Association of International Automobile Manufacturers, National
Association of Manufacturers, etc. etc. etc. Surprisingly, their PR
releases didn't reflect those conclusions of that report they
commissioned. Guess you can't even trust the scientists you
specifically look up and hire to not tell you your denialism is a
crock. Even 14 years ago. And guess you can't trust you to actually
read something before deciding on it based on whether you approve of
the conclusion.


On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 16:06:39 -0700 (PDT), Last Post <...@primus.ca

Volcanic activity cools the earth and is the
prime source of atmospheric CO2, ash, and H2O

The fool who posted that atmospheric CO2 and H2O
are not connected, should go back to junior high.

New Activity/Unrest:
| Bagana, Bougainville
| Ebeko, Paramushir Island
| Galeras, Colombia
| Pagan, Mariana Islands (Central Pacific)
| Reventador, Ecuador
| Shiveluch, Central Kamchatka (Russia)
| Slamet, Central Java (Indonesia)

Ongoing Activity:
| Barren Island, Andaman Is
| Batu Tara, Komba Island (Indonesia)
| Chaitén, Southern Chile
| Dukono, Halmahera
| Fuego, Guatemala
| Karymsky, Eastern Kamchatka
| Kerinci, Sumatra (Indonesia)
| Kilauea, Hawaii (USA)
| Koryaksky, Eastern Kamchatka
| Krakatau, Indonesia
| Llaima, Central Chile
| Pacaya, Guatemala
| Rabaul, New Britain
| Redoubt, Southwestern Alaska
| Sakura-jima, Kyushu
| Santa María, Guatemala
| Soufrière Hills, Montserrat
| Suwanose-jima, Ryukyu Islands (Japan)
| Tungurahua, Ecuador

On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 00:36:51 -0400, T. Keating <...@ktcnslt.com

On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 16:06:39 -0700 (PDT), Last Post
<...@primus.ca

Snip... Time for a simple Math and science exercise..

Calculate the Volume of CO2 (STP) per second needed to duplicate man
kinds fossil fuel emissions.

Use the conservative 30 Billion Tonn CO2/yr number as a baseline
number.

http://www.redorbit.com/news/science/1301514/envisat_observes_elevated_co2_from _manmade_emissions/index.html
"Envisat Observes Elevated CO2 From Manmade Emissions"

Hint... It's a very large number, over 700 million cubic feet per
second!!! A number that is so large that it would take all known
Volcano's, (active and dormant) on earth erupting simultaneously to
come even close. (P.S.. That isn't happening.)

Next gaping hole in denier claim.

Newer earth monitoring Sat's (Envisat) can detect the locations of
CO2 emission sources, which drives a second dagger into your denier
claims.

http://www.redorbit.com/modules/imglib/download.php?Url=/modules/news/upload/e8 1ed8ea6db33679d1be796a41d2ebef.jpg

On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 08:08:46 -0700 (PDT), Last Post <...@primus.ca

On Apr 30, 12:36 am, T. Keating <...@ktcnslt.com

•• ROTFLMAO
I do not for one instant believe your bullshit.
1- There is no gizmo that can calibrate
accurately emissions from around the globe.
2- It can only calibrate a brief interval and the
winds constantly move CO2 from the emitter
to the absorber constantly.
3- 100% of anthropogenic CO2 (with a little help
from the clouds) is in use every day.
6CO2 + 12H2O + Light Energy _____

•• In real science the burden of proof is always
on the proposer, never on the sceptics. When
are you going to provide real proof not BS.

•• You can take your alarmist BS and eat it.
You remind me of the
"Antarctic Lake the Size of California" that wasn't.
Hansen/NASA posted it in Nature 'after' it was
rebutted.

•• BTW
How do you explain ice cores with 6,000 ppm CO2?
They sure don't come from global warming.

- -
The evidence from Mars destroys the notion that
humans are responsible for warming Earth. Mars
has global warming, but without a greenhouse
and without the participation of Martians.

Dr Habibullo Abdussamatov

marsprogram.jpl.nasa.gov/odyssey/newsroom/pressreleases/20031208a.html

On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 11:45:01 -0400, T. Keating <...@ktcnslt.com

On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 08:08:46 -0700 (PDT), Last Post
<...@primus.ca

I see we found another poorly educated low IQ denialist.
Naturally, you snipped all the links supplied with my posting.

So I will repost those links a SECOND time.

http://www.redorbit.com/news/science/1301514/envisat_observes_elevated_co2_from _manmade_emissions/index.html
"Envisat Observes Elevated CO2 From Manmade Emissions"
http://www.redorbit.com/modules/imglib/download.php?Url=/modules/news/upload/e8 1ed8ea6db33679d1be796a41d2ebef.jpg

P.S.. Calculating CO2 Cubic ft/sec result isn't all that hard, any
10th grader who's taken chemistry could figure it out.

What's next? Are you going to declare the earth is flat again??

On Fri, 1 May 2009 16:39:49 -0700 (PDT), Last Post <...@primus.ca

On Apr 30, 11:45 am, T. Keating <...@ktcnslt.com
•• Sonny boy I had a doctorate when you were in diapers.

•• Of course they are irrelevant to this thread and
anybody interested has seen them in your original
post. You evidently do not know how usenet works.

- -
The evidence from Mars destroys the notion that
humans are responsible for warming Earth. Mars
has global warming, but without a greenhouse
and without the participation of Martians.

Dr Habibullo Abdussamatov

marsprogram.jpl.nasa.gov/odyssey/newsroom/pressreleases/20031208a.html

On Sat, 2 May 2009 00:23:10 -0700 (PDT), oriel36 <...@gmail.com

On Apr 30, 4:45 pm, T. Keating <...@ktcnslt.com
The problem is that for the last 3 centuries people have come as close
as possible to declaring that the Earth is flat ,something akin to the
Piltdown man hoax only many,many magnitudes worse and the thing about
it- it is not too difficult to spot,at least with familiarity of basic
astronomical principles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analemma

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidereal_time

Side by side are two different and hideous ways to describe the
Earth's daily rotation and orbital motion,both in conflict with each
other and both entirely fictional,a case of jumping to conclusions
while getting observations to fit pre-conceived notions.The 'analemma'
hoax has the Sun wander against the average 24 hour noon while the
'sidereal time' version has an equable 24 hour natural noon yet these
two conflicting views are cheerfully explained by daily and orbital
motions and have gone unchallenged since their emergence in the late
17th century through the efforts of Flamsteed.

The two largest planetary temperature fluctuations are a direct result
of planetary dynamics in terms of the day and night cycle and the
seasonal cycle and without a clear understanding of the motions of the
Earth,which exists at present,there is no reliable framework for
climate studies let alone jumping to reckless conclusions of carbon
dioxide levels and temperature fluctuations.

A scientific community that can accept an equable 24 hour noon cycle
(sidereal time) while simultaneously accepting a wandering Sun every
24 hours (analemma) is far more dismal situation than a community that
accepts either view independently and where there should be a detailed
understanding of the relationship between planetary dynamics and the
largest temperature variations of them all - the annual seasonal
cycle,there is a huge void .

Given the choice between a flat Earth and the sidereal time/analemma
concoction,I would say the flat Earth belief is less damaging but
unfortunately that is where the scientific community exists at
present.


On Sat, 02 May 2009 09:41:35 +0200, qqq_qqq <...@q.q

This can only be true if there is combustion. But maybe something else
is meant here, H20 is not very long lived and not very well mixed in the
atmosphere and undergoes many phase transitions, CO2 on the other hand
is long lived and well mixed.

Count your blessings,

Q

--
The only thing to fear is invisible stupidity.

Discussion Title: Re: What is the IPCC ?
Title Keywords: What  IPCC