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On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 08:19:10 +0300, "Juhana Harju" <...@mail.fi> wrote:
Don Wiss wrote:
> I was in Sweden when the press release came out on Staffan Lindeberg's
> study where a Paleolithic diet improves glucose tolerance more than a
> Mediterranean-like diet in individuals with ischemic heart disease.
> This was the first randomized study with the paleo diet.
That Mediterranean-like diet had only 25 E% of fat where as the real
traditional Cretan Mediterranean diet, which is concidered to be the
healthiest of Mediterranean diets, contains approximately 40 E% fat, mainly
from olive oil. Higher percentage of energy from fat would improve glycemic
control.
--
Juhana
Don Wiss wrote:
> I was in Sweden when the press release came out on Staffan Lindeberg's
> study where a Paleolithic diet improves glucose tolerance more than a
> Mediterranean-like diet in individuals with ischemic heart disease.
> This was the first randomized study with the paleo diet.
That Mediterranean-like diet had only 25 E% of fat where as the real
traditional Cretan Mediterranean diet, which is concidered to be the
healthiest of Mediterranean diets, contains approximately 40 E% fat, mainly
from olive oil. Higher percentage of energy from fat would improve glycemic
control.
--
Juhana
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On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 07:33:29 -0700, dorsy1943 <...@usadatanet.net> wrote:
On Jul 14, 1:19 am, "Juhana Harju" <...@mail.fi> wrote:
> Don Wiss wrote:
> > I was in Sweden when the press release came out on Staffan Lindeberg's
> > study where a Paleolithic diet improves glucose tolerance more than a
> > Mediterranean-like diet in individuals with ischemic heart disease.
> > This was the first randomized study with the paleo diet.
>
> That Mediterranean-like diet had only 25 E% of fat where as the real
> traditional Cretan Mediterranean diet, which is concidered to be the
> healthiest of Mediterranean diets, contains approximately 40 E% fat, mainly
> from olive oil. Higher percentage of energy from fat would improve glycemic
> control.
>
> --
> Juhana
Maybe you will get good results as far as blood sugar readings
temporarily, but in the long run it is fat that causes insulin
resistance. Dr. Atkins has said in one of his books that if you are
going to have a glucose tolerance test go off his diet a week before
the test. Otherwise you will test diabetic. If you test diabetic on
the atkins diet despite low daily glucose readings, I would suspect
that damage is being done of which you would only be aware somewhere
down the line.
Dolores
On Jul 14, 1:19 am, "Juhana Harju" <...@mail.fi> wrote:
> Don Wiss wrote:
> > I was in Sweden when the press release came out on Staffan Lindeberg's
> > study where a Paleolithic diet improves glucose tolerance more than a
> > Mediterranean-like diet in individuals with ischemic heart disease.
> > This was the first randomized study with the paleo diet.
>
> That Mediterranean-like diet had only 25 E% of fat where as the real
> traditional Cretan Mediterranean diet, which is concidered to be the
> healthiest of Mediterranean diets, contains approximately 40 E% fat, mainly
> from olive oil. Higher percentage of energy from fat would improve glycemic
> control.
>
> --
> Juhana
Maybe you will get good results as far as blood sugar readings
temporarily, but in the long run it is fat that causes insulin
resistance. Dr. Atkins has said in one of his books that if you are
going to have a glucose tolerance test go off his diet a week before
the test. Otherwise you will test diabetic. If you test diabetic on
the atkins diet despite low daily glucose readings, I would suspect
that damage is being done of which you would only be aware somewhere
down the line.
Dolores
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On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 10:52:27 -0400, Susan <...@nomail.com> wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
dorsy1943 wrote:
>
> Maybe you will get good results as far as blood sugar readings
> temporarily, but in the long run it is fat that causes insulin
> resistance.
That's a belief, a presumption based upon bias, not well controlled
studies.
Dr. Atkins has said in one of his books that if you are
> going to have a glucose tolerance test go off his diet a week before
> the test. Otherwise you will test diabetic. If you test diabetic on
> the atkins diet despite low daily glucose readings, I would suspect
> that damage is being done of which you would only be aware somewhere
> down the line.
In the years since, only good markers have come from Atkins dieting in
diabetics and others. Fat is hormonally neutral, as compared to carbs
and protein, which stimulate insulin and glucagon.
Fat does not promote insulin resistance. I will say that fat from
feedlot raised animals has a less than desirable profile for health, as
compared to grass fed products.
Susanx-no-archive: yes
dorsy1943 wrote:
>
> Maybe you will get good results as far as blood sugar readings
> temporarily, but in the long run it is fat that causes insulin
> resistance.
That's a belief, a presumption based upon bias, not well controlled
studies.
Dr. Atkins has said in one of his books that if you are
> going to have a glucose tolerance test go off his diet a week before
> the test. Otherwise you will test diabetic. If you test diabetic on
> the atkins diet despite low daily glucose readings, I would suspect
> that damage is being done of which you would only be aware somewhere
> down the line.
In the years since, only good markers have come from Atkins dieting in
diabetics and others. Fat is hormonally neutral, as compared to carbs
and protein, which stimulate insulin and glucagon.
Fat does not promote insulin resistance. I will say that fat from
feedlot raised animals has a less than desirable profile for health, as
compared to grass fed products.
Susan
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On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 17:50:56 GMT, Jim Chinnis <...@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
dorsy1943 <...@usadatanet.net> wrote in part:
>On Jul 14, 1:19 am, "Juhana Harju" <...@mail.fi> wrote:
>> Don Wiss wrote:
>> > I was in Sweden when the press release came out on Staffan Lindeberg's
>> > study where a Paleolithic diet improves glucose tolerance more than a
>> > Mediterranean-like diet in individuals with ischemic heart disease.
>> > This was the first randomized study with the paleo diet.
>>
>> That Mediterranean-like diet had only 25 E% of fat where as the real
>> traditional Cretan Mediterranean diet, which is concidered to be the
>> healthiest of Mediterranean diets, contains approximately 40 E% fat, mainly
>> from olive oil. Higher percentage of energy from fat would improve glycemic
>> control.
>>
>> --
>> Juhana
>
>Maybe you will get good results as far as blood sugar readings
>temporarily, but in the long run it is fat that causes insulin
>resistance.
This is a science group. I've never seen any evidence for your claim. Do you
think Crete was overrun with diabetics?
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA jchi...@alum.mit.edudorsy1943 <...@usadatanet.net> wrote in part:
>On Jul 14, 1:19 am, "Juhana Harju" <...@mail.fi> wrote:
>> Don Wiss wrote:
>> > I was in Sweden when the press release came out on Staffan Lindeberg's
>> > study where a Paleolithic diet improves glucose tolerance more than a
>> > Mediterranean-like diet in individuals with ischemic heart disease.
>> > This was the first randomized study with the paleo diet.
>>
>> That Mediterranean-like diet had only 25 E% of fat where as the real
>> traditional Cretan Mediterranean diet, which is concidered to be the
>> healthiest of Mediterranean diets, contains approximately 40 E% fat, mainly
>> from olive oil. Higher percentage of energy from fat would improve glycemic
>> control.
>>
>> --
>> Juhana
>
>Maybe you will get good results as far as blood sugar readings
>temporarily, but in the long run it is fat that causes insulin
>resistance.
This is a science group. I've never seen any evidence for your claim. Do you
think Crete was overrun with diabetics?
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA jchi...@alum.mit.edu
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On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 15:17:25 -0700, Ron Peterson <...@shell.core.com> wrote:
On Jul 14, 12:50 pm, Jim Chinnis <...@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
> dorsy1943 <...@usadatanet.net> wrote in part:
>
>
>
> >On Jul 14, 1:19 am, "Juhana Harju" <...@mail.fi> wrote:
> >> That Mediterranean-like diet had only 25 E% of fat where as the real
> >> traditional Cretan Mediterranean diet, which is concidered to be the
> >> healthiest of Mediterranean diets, contains approximately 40 E% fat, mainly
> >> from olive oil. Higher percentage of energy from fat would improve glycemic
> >> control.
> >Maybe you will get good results as far as blood sugar readings
> >temporarily, but in the long run it is fat that causes insulin
> >resistance.
> This is a science group. I've never seen any evidence for your claim. Do you
> think Crete was overrun with diabetics?
http://www.annalsnyas.org/cgi/content/abstract/967/1/329 makes the
argument that the type of fat determines insulin resistance. Since
Crete probably has high fish and olive oil consumption, they could be
spared a higher incidence of diabetes.
--
Ron
On Jul 14, 12:50 pm, Jim Chinnis <...@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
> dorsy1943 <...@usadatanet.net> wrote in part:
>
>
>
> >On Jul 14, 1:19 am, "Juhana Harju" <...@mail.fi> wrote:
> >> That Mediterranean-like diet had only 25 E% of fat where as the real
> >> traditional Cretan Mediterranean diet, which is concidered to be the
> >> healthiest of Mediterranean diets, contains approximately 40 E% fat, mainly
> >> from olive oil. Higher percentage of energy from fat would improve glycemic
> >> control.
> >Maybe you will get good results as far as blood sugar readings
> >temporarily, but in the long run it is fat that causes insulin
> >resistance.
> This is a science group. I've never seen any evidence for your claim. Do you
> think Crete was overrun with diabetics?
http://www.annalsnyas.org/cgi/content/abstract/967/1/329 makes the
argument that the type of fat determines insulin resistance. Since
Crete probably has high fish and olive oil consumption, they could be
spared a higher incidence of diabetes.
--
Ron
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On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 22:53:04 GMT, Jim Chinnis <...@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
Ron Peterson <...@shell.core.com> wrote in part:
>On Jul 14, 12:50 pm, Jim Chinnis <...@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
>> dorsy1943 <...@usadatanet.net> wrote in part:
>>
>>
>>
>> >On Jul 14, 1:19 am, "Juhana Harju" <...@mail.fi> wrote:
>
>> >> That Mediterranean-like diet had only 25 E% of fat where as the real
>> >> traditional Cretan Mediterranean diet, which is concidered to be the
>> >> healthiest of Mediterranean diets, contains approximately 40 E% fat, mainly
>> >> from olive oil. Higher percentage of energy from fat would improve glycemic
>> >> control.
>
>> >Maybe you will get good results as far as blood sugar readings
>> >temporarily, but in the long run it is fat that causes insulin
>> >resistance.
>
>> This is a science group. I've never seen any evidence for your claim. Do you
>> think Crete was overrun with diabetics?
>
>http://www.annalsnyas.org/cgi/content/abstract/967/1/329 makes the
>argument that the type of fat determines insulin resistance. Since
>Crete probably has high fish and olive oil consumption, they could be
>spared a higher incidence of diabetes.
Yes. Your cite argues against the point argued by dorsey1943. I'm wondering
if there was any evidence to the contrary, i.e, that shifting from the
tested "Mediterranean" 25 E% fat diet to the traditional 40 E% fat Cretan
diet would cause a short term improvement in serum glucose but worsen
insulin resistance in the long term. That seems to me to be both wrong and
dangerous.
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA jchi...@alum.mit.eduRon Peterson <...@shell.core.com> wrote in part:
>On Jul 14, 12:50 pm, Jim Chinnis <...@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
>> dorsy1943 <...@usadatanet.net> wrote in part:
>>
>>
>>
>> >On Jul 14, 1:19 am, "Juhana Harju" <...@mail.fi> wrote:
>
>> >> That Mediterranean-like diet had only 25 E% of fat where as the real
>> >> traditional Cretan Mediterranean diet, which is concidered to be the
>> >> healthiest of Mediterranean diets, contains approximately 40 E% fat, mainly
>> >> from olive oil. Higher percentage of energy from fat would improve glycemic
>> >> control.
>
>> >Maybe you will get good results as far as blood sugar readings
>> >temporarily, but in the long run it is fat that causes insulin
>> >resistance.
>
>> This is a science group. I've never seen any evidence for your claim. Do you
>> think Crete was overrun with diabetics?
>
>http://www.annalsnyas.org/cgi/content/abstract/967/1/329 makes the
>argument that the type of fat determines insulin resistance. Since
>Crete probably has high fish and olive oil consumption, they could be
>spared a higher incidence of diabetes.
Yes. Your cite argues against the point argued by dorsey1943. I'm wondering
if there was any evidence to the contrary, i.e, that shifting from the
tested "Mediterranean" 25 E% fat diet to the traditional 40 E% fat Cretan
diet would cause a short term improvement in serum glucose but worsen
insulin resistance in the long term. That seems to me to be both wrong and
dangerous.
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA jchi...@alum.mit.edu
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On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 18:52:08 -0400, Susan <...@nomail.com> wrote:
-no-archive: yes
Ron Peterson wrote:
> http://www.annalsnyas.org/cgi/content/abstract/967/1/329 makes the
> argument that the type of fat determines insulin resistance. Since
> Crete probably has high fish and olive oil consumption, they could be
> spared a higher incidence of diabetes.
>
> --
> Ron
>
Then explain the Swiss paradox. Loads of saturated fat from grass fed
cows. Low heart disease.
Susan
-no-archive: yes
Ron Peterson wrote:
> http://www.annalsnyas.org/cgi/content/abstract/967/1/329 makes the
> argument that the type of fat determines insulin resistance. Since
> Crete probably has high fish and olive oil consumption, they could be
> spared a higher incidence of diabetes.
>
> --
> Ron
>
Then explain the Swiss paradox. Loads of saturated fat from grass fed
cows. Low heart disease.
Susan
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On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 08:32:09 +0300, "Juhana Harju" <...@mail.fi> wrote:
Susan wrote:
> -no-archive: yes Ron Peterson wrote:
>> http://www.annalsnyas.org/cgi/content/abstract/967/1/329 makes the
>> argument that the type of fat determines insulin resistance. Since
>> Crete probably has high fish and olive oil consumption, they could be
>> spared a higher incidence of diabetes.
>>
> Then explain the Swiss paradox. Loads of saturated fat from grass fed
> cows. Low heart disease.
Switzerland is only moderately low in heart disease. They have a very high
living standard which is in itself associated with longer life expectancy.
The Swiss also consume red wine which is known to reduce heart disease
insidence. But you can do much better in terms of heart disease than the
Swiss do. Japan, lower in saturated fat and red meat consumption, has a much
lower insidence of heart disease than Switzerland. Probably due to higher
fish and tofu and lower red meat and saturated fat consumption.
--
Juhana
Susan wrote:
> -no-archive: yes Ron Peterson wrote:
>> http://www.annalsnyas.org/cgi/content/abstract/967/1/329 makes the
>> argument that the type of fat determines insulin resistance. Since
>> Crete probably has high fish and olive oil consumption, they could be
>> spared a higher incidence of diabetes.
>>
> Then explain the Swiss paradox. Loads of saturated fat from grass fed
> cows. Low heart disease.
Switzerland is only moderately low in heart disease. They have a very high
living standard which is in itself associated with longer life expectancy.
The Swiss also consume red wine which is known to reduce heart disease
insidence. But you can do much better in terms of heart disease than the
Swiss do. Japan, lower in saturated fat and red meat consumption, has a much
lower insidence of heart disease than Switzerland. Probably due to higher
fish and tofu and lower red meat and saturated fat consumption.
--
Juhana
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On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 07:32:29 -0700, TC <...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Jul 15, 12:32 am, "Juhana Harju" <...@mail.fi> wrote:
> Susan wrote:
> > -no-archive: yes Ron Peterson wrote:
> >>http://www.annalsnyas.org/cgi/content/abstract/967/1/329makes the
> >> argument that the type of fat determines insulin resistance. Since
> >> Crete probably has high fish and olive oil consumption, they could be
> >> spared a higher incidence of diabetes.
>
> > Then explain the Swiss paradox. Loads of saturated fat from grass fed
> > cows. Low heart disease.
>
> Switzerland is only moderately low in heart disease. They have a very high
> living standard which is in itself associated with longer life expectancy.
> The Swiss also consume red wine which is known to reduce heart disease
Now you are getting silly. Can you show cites for any of this
nonsense?
> insidence. But you can do much better in terms of heart disease than the
> Swiss do. Japan, lower in saturated fat and red meat consumption, has a much
> lower insidence of heart disease than Switzerland. Probably due to higher
> fish and tofu and lower red meat and saturated fat consumption.
>
> --
> Juhana
There is nothing wrong with healthy animal fats from properly raised
animals.
On Jul 15, 12:32 am, "Juhana Harju" <...@mail.fi> wrote:
> Susan wrote:
> > -no-archive: yes Ron Peterson wrote:
> >>http://www.annalsnyas.org/cgi/content/abstract/967/1/329makes the
> >> argument that the type of fat determines insulin resistance. Since
> >> Crete probably has high fish and olive oil consumption, they could be
> >> spared a higher incidence of diabetes.
>
> > Then explain the Swiss paradox. Loads of saturated fat from grass fed
> > cows. Low heart disease.
>
> Switzerland is only moderately low in heart disease. They have a very high
> living standard which is in itself associated with longer life expectancy.
> The Swiss also consume red wine which is known to reduce heart disease
Now you are getting silly. Can you show cites for any of this
nonsense?
> insidence. But you can do much better in terms of heart disease than the
> Swiss do. Japan, lower in saturated fat and red meat consumption, has a much
> lower insidence of heart disease than Switzerland. Probably due to higher
> fish and tofu and lower red meat and saturated fat consumption.
>
> --
> Juhana
There is nothing wrong with healthy animal fats from properly raised
animals.
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On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 17:45:35 -0700, dorsy1943 <...@usadatanet.net> wrote:
On Jul 14, 6:52 pm, Susan <...@nomail.com> wrote:
> -no-archive: yes
>
> Ron Peterson wrote:
> >http://www.annalsnyas.org/cgi/content/abstract/967/1/329makes the
> > argument that the type of fat determines insulin resistance. Since
> > Crete probably has high fish and olive oil consumption, they could be
> > spared a higher incidence of diabetes.
>
> > --
> > Ron
>
> Then explain the Swiss paradox. Loads of saturated fat from grass fed
> cows. Low heart disease.
>
> Susan
I think the paradox might result from cattle being grass fed. This
would make them more like game animals which have a different
composition of fat (more omega threes) than industrial meat. How much
fat do grazing animals have? Most game is about 4 per cent fat.
On Jul 14, 6:52 pm, Susan <...@nomail.com> wrote:
> -no-archive: yes
>
> Ron Peterson wrote:
> >http://www.annalsnyas.org/cgi/content/abstract/967/1/329makes the
> > argument that the type of fat determines insulin resistance. Since
> > Crete probably has high fish and olive oil consumption, they could be
> > spared a higher incidence of diabetes.
>
> > --
> > Ron
>
> Then explain the Swiss paradox. Loads of saturated fat from grass fed
> cows. Low heart disease.
>
> Susan
I think the paradox might result from cattle being grass fed. This
would make them more like game animals which have a different
composition of fat (more omega threes) than industrial meat. How much
fat do grazing animals have? Most game is about 4 per cent fat.
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On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 20:48:35 -0400, Susan <...@nomail.com> wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
dorsy1943 wrote:
> I think the paradox might result from cattle being grass fed. This
> would make them more like game animals which have a different
> composition of fat (more omega threes) than industrial meat. How much
> fat do grazing animals have? Most game is about 4 per cent fat.
>
I've addressed this earlier in the thread.
Grass fed beef is much less lean than any game I've eaten.
Susanx-no-archive: yes
dorsy1943 wrote:
> I think the paradox might result from cattle being grass fed. This
> would make them more like game animals which have a different
> composition of fat (more omega threes) than industrial meat. How much
> fat do grazing animals have? Most game is about 4 per cent fat.
>
I've addressed this earlier in the thread.
Grass fed beef is much less lean than any game I've eaten.
Susan
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On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 22:34:48 -0700, Ron Peterson <...@shell.core.com> wrote:
On Jul 14, 5:52 pm, Susan <...@nomail.com> wrote:
> -no-archive: yes
>
> Ron Peterson wrote:
> >http://www.annalsnyas.org/cgi/content/abstract/967/1/329makes the
> > argument that the type of fat determines insulin resistance. Since
> > Crete probably has high fish and olive oil consumption, they could be
> > spared a higher incidence of diabetes.
> Then explain the Swiss paradox. Loads of saturated fat from grass fed
> cows. Low heart disease.
I discussing diabetes. The 1999 per capita consumption of beef and
veal in the US was 45.3 Kg compared with 21.3 Kg for Switzerland.
Also, obesity is three times higher in the US than in Switzerland.
--
Ron
On Jul 14, 5:52 pm, Susan <...@nomail.com> wrote:
> -no-archive: yes
>
> Ron Peterson wrote:
> >http://www.annalsnyas.org/cgi/content/abstract/967/1/329makes the
> > argument that the type of fat determines insulin resistance. Since
> > Crete probably has high fish and olive oil consumption, they could be
> > spared a higher incidence of diabetes.
> Then explain the Swiss paradox. Loads of saturated fat from grass fed
> cows. Low heart disease.
I discussing diabetes. The 1999 per capita consumption of beef and
veal in the US was 45.3 Kg compared with 21.3 Kg for Switzerland.
Also, obesity is three times higher in the US than in Switzerland.
--
Ron
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On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 09:00:11 +0300, "Juhana Harju" <...@mail.fi> wrote:
Ron Peterson wrote:
> On Jul 14, 5:52 pm, Susan <...@nomail.com> wrote:
>> -no-archive: yes
>>
>> Ron Peterson wrote:
>>> http://www.annalsnyas.org/cgi/content/abstract/967/1/329makes the
>>> argument that the type of fat determines insulin resistance. Since
>>> Crete probably has high fish and olive oil consumption, they could
>>> be spared a higher incidence of diabetes.
>
>> Then explain the Swiss paradox. Loads of saturated fat from grass
>> fed cows. Low heart disease.
>
> I discussing diabetes. The 1999 per capita consumption of beef and
> veal in the US was 45.3 Kg compared with 21.3 Kg for Switzerland.
> Also, obesity is three times higher in the US than in Switzerland.
Correct. And probably no other country has such a poor quality of
carbohydrates as the US does.
--
Juhana
Ron Peterson wrote:
> On Jul 14, 5:52 pm, Susan <...@nomail.com> wrote:
>> -no-archive: yes
>>
>> Ron Peterson wrote:
>>> http://www.annalsnyas.org/cgi/content/abstract/967/1/329makes the
>>> argument that the type of fat determines insulin resistance. Since
>>> Crete probably has high fish and olive oil consumption, they could
>>> be spared a higher incidence of diabetes.
>
>> Then explain the Swiss paradox. Loads of saturated fat from grass
>> fed cows. Low heart disease.
>
> I discussing diabetes. The 1999 per capita consumption of beef and
> veal in the US was 45.3 Kg compared with 21.3 Kg for Switzerland.
> Also, obesity is three times higher in the US than in Switzerland.
Correct. And probably no other country has such a poor quality of
carbohydrates as the US does.
--
Juhana
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On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 12:06:31 -0400, Susan <...@nomail.com> wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
Ron Peterson wrote:
> On Jul 14, 5:52 pm, Susan <...@nomail.com> wrote:
>
>>-no-archive: yes
>>
>>Ron Peterson wrote:
>>
>>>http://www.annalsnyas.org/cgi/content/abstract/967/1/329makes the
>>>argument that the type of fat determines insulin resistance. Since
>>>Crete probably has high fish and olive oil consumption, they could be
>>>spared a higher incidence of diabetes.
>
>
>>Then explain the Swiss paradox. Loads of saturated fat from grass fed
>>cows. Low heart disease.
>
>
> I discussing diabetes. The 1999 per capita consumption of beef and
> veal in the US was 45.3 Kg compared with 21.3 Kg for Switzerland.
> Also, obesity is three times higher in the US than in Switzerland.
>
> --
> Ron
>
>
The Swiss eat tons of sat fat from dairy, which is higher in sat fat
than meat is.
Susanx-no-archive: yes
Ron Peterson wrote:
> On Jul 14, 5:52 pm, Susan <...@nomail.com> wrote:
>
>>-no-archive: yes
>>
>>Ron Peterson wrote:
>>
>>>http://www.annalsnyas.org/cgi/content/abstract/967/1/329makes the
>>>argument that the type of fat determines insulin resistance. Since
>>>Crete probably has high fish and olive oil consumption, they could be
>>>spared a higher incidence of diabetes.
>
>
>>Then explain the Swiss paradox. Loads of saturated fat from grass fed
>>cows. Low heart disease.
>
>
> I discussing diabetes. The 1999 per capita consumption of beef and
> veal in the US was 45.3 Kg compared with 21.3 Kg for Switzerland.
> Also, obesity is three times higher in the US than in Switzerland.
>
> --
> Ron
>
>
The Swiss eat tons of sat fat from dairy, which is higher in sat fat
than meat is.
Susan
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On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 17:48:33 -0700, dorsy1943 <...@usadatanet.net> wrote:
On Jul 15, 12:06 pm, Susan <...@nomail.com> wrote:
> x-no-archive: yes
>
>
>
>
>
> Ron Peterson wrote:
> > On Jul 14, 5:52 pm, Susan <...@nomail.com> wrote:
>
> >>-no-archive: yes
>
> >>Ron Peterson wrote:
>
> >>>http://www.annalsnyas.org/cgi/content/abstract/967/1/329makesthe
> >>>argument that the type of fat determines insulin resistance. Since
> >>>Crete probably has high fish and olive oil consumption, they could be
> >>>spared a higher incidence of diabetes.
>
> >>Then explain the Swiss paradox. Loads of saturated fat from grass fed
> >>cows. Low heart disease.
>
> > I discussing diabetes. The 1999 per capita consumption of beef and
> > veal in the US was 45.3 Kg compared with 21.3 Kg for Switzerland.
> > Also, obesity is three times higher in the US than in Switzerland.
>
> > --
> > Ron
>
> The Swiss eat tons of sat fat from dairy, which is higher in sat fat
> than meat is.
>
> Susan- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Is the fat composition of milk from grazing animals the same as the
fat composition of milk from industrial cows?
Dolores
On Jul 15, 12:06 pm, Susan <...@nomail.com> wrote:
> x-no-archive: yes
>
>
>
>
>
> Ron Peterson wrote:
> > On Jul 14, 5:52 pm, Susan <...@nomail.com> wrote:
>
> >>-no-archive: yes
>
> >>Ron Peterson wrote:
>
> >>>http://www.annalsnyas.org/cgi/content/abstract/967/1/329makesthe
> >>>argument that the type of fat determines insulin resistance. Since
> >>>Crete probably has high fish and olive oil consumption, they could be
> >>>spared a higher incidence of diabetes.
>
> >>Then explain the Swiss paradox. Loads of saturated fat from grass fed
> >>cows. Low heart disease.
>
> > I discussing diabetes. The 1999 per capita consumption of beef and
> > veal in the US was 45.3 Kg compared with 21.3 Kg for Switzerland.
> > Also, obesity is three times higher in the US than in Switzerland.
>
> > --
> > Ron
>
> The Swiss eat tons of sat fat from dairy, which is higher in sat fat
> than meat is.
>
> Susan- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Is the fat composition of milk from grazing animals the same as the
fat composition of milk from industrial cows?
Dolores
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On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 20:51:24 -0400, Susan <...@nomail.com> wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
dorsy1943 wrote:
> Is the fat composition of milk from grazing animals the same as the
> fat composition of milk from industrial cows?
> Dolores
>
No.x-no-archive: yes
dorsy1943 wrote:
> Is the fat composition of milk from grazing animals the same as the
> fat composition of milk from industrial cows?
> Dolores
>
No.
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On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 13:41:36 -0700, Ron Peterson <...@shell.core.com> wrote:
On Jul 15, 11:06 am, Susan <...@nomail.com> wrote:
> x-no-archive: yes
>
>
>
> Ron Peterson wrote:
> > On Jul 14, 5:52 pm, Susan <...@nomail.com> wrote:
>
> >>-no-archive: yes
>
> >>Ron Peterson wrote:
>
> >>>http://www.annalsnyas.org/cgi/content/abstract/967/1/329makesthe
> >>>argument that the type of fat determines insulin resistance. Since
> >>>Crete probably has high fish and olive oil consumption, they could be
> >>>spared a higher incidence of diabetes.
> >>Then explain the Swiss paradox. Loads of saturated fat from grass fed
> >>cows. Low heart disease.
> > I discussing diabetes. The 1999 per capita consumption of beef and
> > veal in the US was 45.3 Kg compared with 21.3 Kg for Switzerland.
> > Also, obesity is three times higher in the US than in Switzerland.
> The Swiss eat tons of sat fat from dairy, which is higher in sat fat
> than meat is.
The dairy fat consumption for the various countries based on 2005 data
is:
Finland 7.445
Norway 7.933
New Zealand 7.5755
Sweden 7.5595
Spain 4.7945
Australia 4.928
United Kingdom 5.762
United States 4.068
Netherlands 5.4405
Italy 6.058
European Union (25 countries) 4.012
Germany 6.5925
Austria 5.739
Switzerland 6.1555
Canada 4.0875
France 6.809
Argentina 2.9325
Greece 4.5155
Ireland 3.3235
Milk fat is 70% saturated and 27% monounsaturated.
Beef fat is 55% saturated and 40% monounsaturated.
16% of milk fat is short chain saturated fatty acids which isn't as
harmful as the long chain fatty acids.
--
Ron
On Jul 15, 11:06 am, Susan <...@nomail.com> wrote:
> x-no-archive: yes
>
>
>
> Ron Peterson wrote:
> > On Jul 14, 5:52 pm, Susan <...@nomail.com> wrote:
>
> >>-no-archive: yes
>
> >>Ron Peterson wrote:
>
> >>>http://www.annalsnyas.org/cgi/content/abstract/967/1/329makesthe
> >>>argument that the type of fat determines insulin resistance. Since
> >>>Crete probably has high fish and olive oil consumption, they could be
> >>>spared a higher incidence of diabetes.
> >>Then explain the Swiss paradox. Loads of saturated fat from grass fed
> >>cows. Low heart disease.
> > I discussing diabetes. The 1999 per capita consumption of beef and
> > veal in the US was 45.3 Kg compared with 21.3 Kg for Switzerland.
> > Also, obesity is three times higher in the US than in Switzerland.
> The Swiss eat tons of sat fat from dairy, which is higher in sat fat
> than meat is.
The dairy fat consumption for the various countries based on 2005 data
is:
Finland 7.445
Norway 7.933
New Zealand 7.5755
Sweden 7.5595
Spain 4.7945
Australia 4.928
United Kingdom 5.762
United States 4.068
Netherlands 5.4405
Italy 6.058
European Union (25 countries) 4.012
Germany 6.5925
Austria 5.739
Switzerland 6.1555
Canada 4.0875
France 6.809
Argentina 2.9325
Greece 4.5155
Ireland 3.3235
Milk fat is 70% saturated and 27% monounsaturated.
Beef fat is 55% saturated and 40% monounsaturated.
16% of milk fat is short chain saturated fatty acids which isn't as
harmful as the long chain fatty acids.
--
Ron
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On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 18:12:18 -0400, Susan <...@nomail.com> wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
Ron Peterson wrote:
> Milk fat is 70% saturated and 27% monounsaturated.
> Beef fat is 55% saturated and 40% monounsaturated.
>
> 16% of milk fat is short chain saturated fatty acids which isn't as
> harmful as the long chain fatty acids.
>
>
The fat profile of grass fed meat and dairy is different. It's higher
omega 3, lower 6, higher in CLA and lower (meat) in arachidonic acid.
Susanx-no-archive: yes
Ron Peterson wrote:
> Milk fat is 70% saturated and 27% monounsaturated.
> Beef fat is 55% saturated and 40% monounsaturated.
>
> 16% of milk fat is short chain saturated fatty acids which isn't as
> harmful as the long chain fatty acids.
>
>
The fat profile of grass fed meat and dairy is different. It's higher
omega 3, lower 6, higher in CLA and lower (meat) in arachidonic acid.
Susan
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On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 18:01:09 -0700, Ron Peterson <...@shell.core.com> wrote:
On Jul 15, 5:12 pm, Susan <...@nomail.com> wrote:
> x-no-archive: yes
> Ron Peterson wrote:
> > Milk fat is 70% saturated and 27% monounsaturated.
> > Beef fat is 55% saturated and 40% monounsaturated.
> > 16% of milk fat is short chain saturated fatty acids which isn't as
> > harmful as the long chain fatty acids.
> The fat profile of grass fed meat and dairy is different. It's higher
> omega 3, lower 6, higher in CLA and lower (meat) in arachidonic acid.
It's only slightly higher in omega 3, IIRC. As far as I know most of
the diet in cattle and dairy cows is based on grass and hay in the US.
Most of the saturated fatty acids in beef comes from the fermentation
in the cows stomachs.
--
Ron
On Jul 15, 5:12 pm, Susan <...@nomail.com> wrote:
> x-no-archive: yes
> Ron Peterson wrote:
> > Milk fat is 70% saturated and 27% monounsaturated.
> > Beef fat is 55% saturated and 40% monounsaturated.
> > 16% of milk fat is short chain saturated fatty acids which isn't as
> > harmful as the long chain fatty acids.
> The fat profile of grass fed meat and dairy is different. It's higher
> omega 3, lower 6, higher in CLA and lower (meat) in arachidonic acid.
It's only slightly higher in omega 3, IIRC. As far as I know most of
the diet in cattle and dairy cows is based on grass and hay in the US.
Most of the saturated fatty acids in beef comes from the fermentation
in the cows stomachs.
--
Ron
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On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 10:18:18 -0400, Susan <...@nomail.com> wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
Ron Peterson wrote:
> It's only slightly higher in omega 3, IIRC.
The ratios are vastly improved, and the CLA and AA matter a very great deal.
As far as I know most of
> the diet in cattle and dairy cows is based on grass and hay in the US.
> Most of the saturated fatty acids in beef comes from the fermentation
> in the cows stomachs.
You don't know anything about feedlot practices, then.
Susanx-no-archive: yes
Ron Peterson wrote:
> It's only slightly higher in omega 3, IIRC.
The ratios are vastly improved, and the CLA and AA matter a very great deal.
As far as I know most of
> the diet in cattle and dairy cows is based on grass and hay in the US.
> Most of the saturated fatty acids in beef comes from the fermentation
> in the cows stomachs.
You don't know anything about feedlot practices, then.
Susan
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On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 13:57:43 GMT, Jim Chinnis <...@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
Ron Peterson <...@shell.core.com> wrote in part:
>As far as I know most of
>the diet in cattle and dairy cows is based on grass and hay in the US.
Most of the cattle feed in the US is a concoction based on corn, something
the animals do not naturally eat.
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA jchi...@alum.mit.eduRon Peterson <...@shell.core.com> wrote in part:
>As far as I know most of
>the diet in cattle and dairy cows is based on grass and hay in the US.
Most of the cattle feed in the US is a concoction based on corn, something
the animals do not naturally eat.
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA jchi...@alum.mit.edu
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On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 07:30:56 -0700, TC <...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Jul 16, 8:57 am, Jim Chinnis <...@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
> Ron Peterson <...@shell.core.com> wrote in part:
>
> >As far as I know most of
> >the diet in cattle and dairy cows is based on grass and hay in the US.
>
> Most of the cattle feed in the US is a concoction based on corn, something
> the animals do not naturally eat.
> --
> Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA jchi...@alum.mit.edu
That is why I buy Canadian beef. Good stuff.
On Jul 16, 8:57 am, Jim Chinnis <...@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
> Ron Peterson <...@shell.core.com> wrote in part:
>
> >As far as I know most of
> >the diet in cattle and dairy cows is based on grass and hay in the US.
>
> Most of the cattle feed in the US is a concoction based on corn, something
> the animals do not naturally eat.
> --
> Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA jchi...@alum.mit.edu
That is why I buy Canadian beef. Good stuff.
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On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 13:30:16 -0700, Ron Peterson <...@shell.core.com> wrote:
On Jul 15, 3:41 pm, Ron Peterson <...@shell.core.com> wrote:
> The dairy fat consumption for the various countries based on 2005 data
> is:
>
> Finland 7.445
> Norway 7.933
> New Zealand 7.5755
> Sweden 7.5595
> Spain 4.7945
> Australia 4.928
> United Kingdom 5.762
> United States 4.068
> Netherlands 5.4405
> Italy 6.058
> European Union (25 countries) 4.012
> Germany 6.5925
> Austria 5.739
> Switzerland 6.1555
> Canada 4.0875
> France 6.809
> Argentina 2.9325
> Greece 4.5155
> Ireland 3.3235
Those represent Kg/person/year. Sorry, for the ommission.
--
Ron
On Jul 15, 3:41 pm, Ron Peterson <...@shell.core.com> wrote:
> The dairy fat consumption for the various countries based on 2005 data
> is:
>
> Finland 7.445
> Norway 7.933
> New Zealand 7.5755
> Sweden 7.5595
> Spain 4.7945
> Australia 4.928
> United Kingdom 5.762
> United States 4.068
> Netherlands 5.4405
> Italy 6.058
> European Union (25 countries) 4.012
> Germany 6.5925
> Austria 5.739
> Switzerland 6.1555
> Canada 4.0875
> France 6.809
> Argentina 2.9325
> Greece 4.5155
> Ireland 3.3235
Those represent Kg/person/year. Sorry, for the ommission.
--
Ron
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On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 09:51:21 +0300, "Juhana Harju" <...@mail.fi> wrote:
Ron Peterson wrote:
> On Jul 15, 3:41 pm, Ron Peterson <...@shell.core.com> wrote:
>
>> The dairy fat consumption for the various countries based on 2005
>> data is:
>>
>> Finland 7.445
>> Norway 7.933
>> New Zealand 7.5755
>> Sweden 7.5595
>> Spain 4.7945
>> Australia 4.928
>> United Kingdom 5.762
>> United States 4.068
>> Netherlands 5.4405
>> Italy 6.058
>> European Union (25 countries) 4.012
>> Germany 6.5925
>> Austria 5.739
>> Switzerland 6.1555
>> Canada 4.0875
>> France 6.809
>> Argentina 2.9325
>> Greece 4.5155
>> Ireland 3.3235
>
> Those represent Kg/person/year. Sorry, for the ommission.
The ratio of vegetable fats to animal fats might be even more important.
Here is one chart about that:
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d49/pappakarppi/FAOSTAT2002_Fats.jpg
--
Juhana
Ron Peterson wrote:
> On Jul 15, 3:41 pm, Ron Peterson <...@shell.core.com> wrote:
>
>> The dairy fat consumption for the various countries based on 2005
>> data is:
>>
>> Finland 7.445
>> Norway 7.933
>> New Zealand 7.5755
>> Sweden 7.5595
>> Spain 4.7945
>> Australia 4.928
>> United Kingdom 5.762
>> United States 4.068
>> Netherlands 5.4405
>> Italy 6.058
>> European Union (25 countries) 4.012
>> Germany 6.5925
>> Austria 5.739
>> Switzerland 6.1555
>> Canada 4.0875
>> France 6.809
>> Argentina 2.9325
>> Greece 4.5155
>> Ireland 3.3235
>
> Those represent Kg/person/year. Sorry, for the ommission.
The ratio of vegetable fats to animal fats might be even more important.
Here is one chart about that:
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d49/pappakarppi/FAOSTAT2002_Fats.jpg
--
Juhana
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On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 21:21:13 +0200, "Szczepan Bialek" <...@wp.pl> wrote:
Uzytkownik "Juhana Harju" <...@mail.fi> napisal w wiadomosci
news...@mid.individual.net...
> Ron Peterson wrote:
>> On Jul 15, 3:41 pm, Ron Peterson <...@shell.core.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The dairy fat consumption for the various countries based on 2005
>>> data is:
>>>
>>> Finland 7.445
>>> Norway 7.933
>>> New Zealand 7.5755
>>> Sweden 7.5595
>>> Spain 4.7945
>>> Australia 4.928
>>> United Kingdom 5.762
>>> United States 4.068
>>> Netherlands 5.4405
>>> Italy 6.058
>>> European Union (25 countries) 4.012
>>> Germany 6.5925
>>> Austria 5.739
>>> Switzerland 6.1555
>>> Canada 4.0875
>>> France 6.809
>>> Argentina 2.9325
>>> Greece 4.5155
>>> Ireland 3.3235
>>
>> Those represent Kg/person/year. Sorry, for the ommission.
Simple calculation for Italy: 6.058/365 = 0.017 Kg/year
In grams: 17 grams per day. There must be an error.
>
> The ratio of vegetable fats to animal fats might be even more important.
> Here is one chart about that:
>
> http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d49/pappakarppi/FAOSTAT2002_Fats.jpg
Here we have about 150 g/day.
For me this 150 is especially important. It is a maximum amount of fat which
can be digest during the day. Some people do it.
So normal diet for lazy clark should be 100g proteins, 100g carbs and 150g
fat. Together about 2500 kcal. (350 from dry red vine). It meens 54% kcal
from fat.
Sportsmen and active people should use additional sugar and/or alcohol. Am I
right?
S*
Uzytkownik "Juhana Harju" <...@mail.fi> napisal w wiadomosci
news...@mid.individual.net...
> Ron Peterson wrote:
>> On Jul 15, 3:41 pm, Ron Peterson <...@shell.core.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The dairy fat consumption for the various countries based on 2005
>>> data is:
>>>
>>> Finland 7.445
>>> Norway 7.933
>>> New Zealand 7.5755
>>> Sweden 7.5595
>>> Spain 4.7945
>>> Australia 4.928
>>> United Kingdom 5.762
>>> United States 4.068
>>> Netherlands 5.4405
>>> Italy 6.058
>>> European Union (25 countries) 4.012
>>> Germany 6.5925
>>> Austria 5.739
>>> Switzerland 6.1555
>>> Canada 4.0875
>>> France 6.809
>>> Argentina 2.9325
>>> Greece 4.5155
>>> Ireland 3.3235
>>
>> Those represent Kg/person/year. Sorry, for the ommission.
Simple calculation for Italy: 6.058/365 = 0.017 Kg/year
In grams: 17 grams per day. There must be an error.
>
> The ratio of vegetable fats to animal fats might be even more important.
> Here is one chart about that:
>
> http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d49/pappakarppi/FAOSTAT2002_Fats.jpg
Here we have about 150 g/day.
For me this 150 is especially important. It is a maximum amount of fat which
can be digest during the day. Some people do it.
So normal diet for lazy clark should be 100g proteins, 100g carbs and 150g
fat. Together about 2500 kcal. (350 from dry red vine). It meens 54% kcal
from fat.
Sportsmen and active people should use additional sugar and/or alcohol. Am I
right?
S*
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On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 16:34:26 -0400, Susan <...@nomail.com> wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
Szczepan Bialek wrote:
> Here we have about 150 g/day.
> For me this 150 is especially important. It is a maximum amount of fat which
> can be digest during the day. Some people do it.
> So normal diet for lazy clark should be 100g proteins, 100g carbs and 150g
> fat. Together about 2500 kcal. (350 from dry red vine). It meens 54% kcal
> from fat.
> Sportsmen and active people should use additional sugar and/or alcohol. Am I
> right?
> S*
>
>
No.
There is no single eating plan that's right for all people with the
enormous variety in metabolic hormonal status, etc.
Susanx-no-archive: yes
Szczepan Bialek wrote:
> Here we have about 150 g/day.
> For me this 150 is especially important. It is a maximum amount of fat which
> can be digest during the day. Some people do it.
> So normal diet for lazy clark should be 100g proteins, 100g carbs and 150g
> fat. Together about 2500 kcal. (350 from dry red vine). It meens 54% kcal
> from fat.
> Sportsmen and active people should use additional sugar and/or alcohol. Am I
> right?
> S*
>
>
No.
There is no single eating plan that's right for all people with the
enormous variety in metabolic hormonal status, etc.
Susan
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On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 09:52:07 -0400, allr...@webtv.net wrote:
neve...@nomail.com (Susan) wrote:
" There is no single eating plan that's right for all people, with the
enormous variety in their metabolic, hormonal status, etc. "
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
That's why people should follow an instinctual
diet.
There's also genetic testing that can help you eat right for your
particular DNA. (assuming
that it has any merit)
neve...@nomail.com (Susan) wrote:
" There is no single eating plan that's right for all people, with the
enormous variety in their metabolic, hormonal status, etc. "
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
That's why people should follow an instinctual
diet.
There's also genetic testing that can help you eat right for your
particular DNA. (assuming
that it has any merit)
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On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 18:43:40 +0200, "Szczepan Bialek" <...@wp.pl> wrote:
"Ron Peterson" <
>
> The dairy fat consumption for the various countries based on 2005 data
> is:
>
> Finland 7.445
> Norway 7.933
> New Zealand 7.5755
> Sweden 7.5595
> Spain 4.7945
> Australia 4.928
> United Kingdom 5.762
> United States 4.068
> Netherlands 5.4405
> Italy 6.058
> European Union (25 countries) 4.012
> Germany 6.5925
> Austria 5.739
> Switzerland 6.1555
> Canada 4.0875
> France 6.809
> Argentina 2.9325
> Greece 4.5155
> Ireland 3.3235
" Italy 6.058" - It seems that they do not know that olive oil is the best.
Jim Chinnis should tell them.
S*
"Ron Peterson" <
>
> The dairy fat consumption for the various countries based on 2005 data
> is:
>
> Finland 7.445
> Norway 7.933
> New Zealand 7.5755
> Sweden 7.5595
> Spain 4.7945
> Australia 4.928
> United Kingdom 5.762
> United States 4.068
> Netherlands 5.4405
> Italy 6.058
> European Union (25 countries) 4.012
> Germany 6.5925
> Austria 5.739
> Switzerland 6.1555
> Canada 4.0875
> France 6.809
> Argentina 2.9325
> Greece 4.5155
> Ireland 3.3235
" Italy 6.058" - It seems that they do not know that olive oil is the best.
Jim Chinnis should tell them.
S*
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On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 17:51:13 GMT, Jim Chinnis <...@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
"Szczepan Bialek" <...@wp.pl> wrote in part:
>
> "Ron Peterson" <
>>
>> The dairy fat consumption for the various countries based on 2005 data
>> is:
>>
>> Finland 7.445
>> Norway 7.933
>> New Zealand 7.5755
>> Sweden 7.5595
>> Spain 4.7945
>> Australia 4.928
>> United Kingdom 5.762
>> United States 4.068
>> Netherlands 5.4405
>> Italy 6.058
>> European Union (25 countries) 4.012
>> Germany 6.5925
>> Austria 5.739
>> Switzerland 6.1555
>> Canada 4.0875
>> France 6.809
>> Argentina 2.9325
>> Greece 4.5155
>> Ireland 3.3235
>
>" Italy 6.058" - It seems that they do not know that olive oil is the best.
>Jim Chinnis should tell them.
>S*
>
Ummm. The Italians eat a lot of dairy products as well as olive oil.
As far as I can tell, both are healthy. But I'm referring only to extra
virgin olive oil and only to dairy products from animals raised on their
natural diets.
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA jchi...@alum.mit.edu"Szczepan Bialek" <...@wp.pl> wrote in part:
>
> "Ron Peterson" <
>>
>> The dairy fat consumption for the various countries based on 2005 data
>> is:
>>
>> Finland 7.445
>> Norway 7.933
>> New Zealand 7.5755
>> Sweden 7.5595
>> Spain 4.7945
>> Australia 4.928
>> United Kingdom 5.762
>> United States 4.068
>> Netherlands 5.4405
>> Italy 6.058
>> European Union (25 countries) 4.012
>> Germany 6.5925
>> Austria 5.739
>> Switzerland 6.1555
>> Canada 4.0875
>> France 6.809
>> Argentina 2.9325
>> Greece 4.5155
>> Ireland 3.3235
>
>" Italy 6.058" - It seems that they do not know that olive oil is the best.
>Jim Chinnis should tell them.
>S*
>
Ummm. The Italians eat a lot of dairy products as well as olive oil.
As far as I can tell, both are healthy. But I'm referring only to extra
virgin olive oil and only to dairy products from animals raised on their
natural diets.
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA jchi...@alum.mit.edu
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On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 18:19:18 -0700, dorsy1943 <...@usadatanet.net> wrote:
On Jul 16, 1:51 pm, Jim Chinnis <...@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
> "Szczepan Bialek" <...@wp.pl> wrote in part:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Ron Peterson" <
>
> >> The dairy fat consumption for the various countries based on 2005 data
> >> is:
>
> >> Finland 7.445
> >> Norway 7.933
> >> New Zealand 7.5755
> >> Sweden 7.5595
> >> Spain 4.7945
> >> Australia 4.928
> >> United Kingdom 5.762
> >> United States 4.068
> >> Netherlands 5.4405
> >> Italy 6.058
> >> European Union (25 countries) 4.012
> >> Germany 6.5925
> >> Austria 5.739
> >> Switzerland 6.1555
> >> Canada 4.0875
> >> France 6.809
> >> Argentina 2.9325
> >> Greece 4.5155
> >> Ireland 3.3235
>
> >" Italy 6.058" - It seems that they do not know that olive oil is the best.
> >Jim Chinnis should tell them.
> >S*
>
> Ummm. The Italians eat a lot of dairy products as well as olive oil.
>
> As far as I can tell, both are healthy. But I'm referring only to extra
> virgin olive oil and only to dairy products from animals raised on their
> natural diets.
> --
> Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA jchi...@alum.mit.edu- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
What Italians are you talking about. Italian Americans certainly eat
a lot of cheese, and dairy, but my grandfather who came here in 1903,
only ate a tiny bit of hard goat cheese occasionally. He didn't drink
milk, nor eat a lot of meat. The meat he ate was (yuk) chicken feet
and necks, and any meat off small bones. He lived to be 91 and
probably would have lived to 120 but I think my mom killed him. She
was totally devoted to him and found ways to sneak dairy, eggs and
fatty meats into his diet so he would be "healthy". He was in his
eighties and walked several miles each day (he liked to pick wild
greens and would walk to cemetaries and parks to get the wild
greens.) When he came to live with her he slowed down and eventually
died of a stroke and heart attack. Anyone for chicken feet?
On Jul 16, 1:51 pm, Jim Chinnis <...@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
> "Szczepan Bialek" <...@wp.pl> wrote in part:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Ron Peterson" <
>
> >> The dairy fat consumption for the various countries based on 2005 data
> >> is:
>
> >> Finland 7.445
> >> Norway 7.933
> >> New Zealand 7.5755
> >> Sweden 7.5595
> >> Spain 4.7945
> >> Australia 4.928
> >> United Kingdom 5.762
> >> United States 4.068
> >> Netherlands 5.4405
> >> Italy 6.058
> >> European Union (25 countries) 4.012
> >> Germany 6.5925
> >> Austria 5.739
> >> Switzerland 6.1555
> >> Canada 4.0875
> >> France 6.809
> >> Argentina 2.9325
> >> Greece 4.5155
> >> Ireland 3.3235
>
> >" Italy 6.058" - It seems that they do not know that olive oil is the best.
> >Jim Chinnis should tell them.
> >S*
>
> Ummm. The Italians eat a lot of dairy products as well as olive oil.
>
> As far as I can tell, both are healthy. But I'm referring only to extra
> virgin olive oil and only to dairy products from animals raised on their
> natural diets.
> --
> Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA jchi...@alum.mit.edu- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
What Italians are you talking about. Italian Americans certainly eat
a lot of cheese, and dairy, but my grandfather who came here in 1903,
only ate a tiny bit of hard goat cheese occasionally. He didn't drink
milk, nor eat a lot of meat. The meat he ate was (yuk) chicken feet
and necks, and any meat off small bones. He lived to be 91 and
probably would have lived to 120 but I think my mom killed him. She
was totally devoted to him and found ways to sneak dairy, eggs and
fatty meats into his diet so he would be "healthy". He was in his
eighties and walked several miles each day (he liked to pick wild
greens and would walk to cemetaries and parks to get the wild
greens.) When he came to live with her he slowed down and eventually
died of a stroke and heart attack. Anyone for chicken feet?
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On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 21:50:19 -0400, Susan <...@nomail.com> wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
dorsy1943 wrote:
> What Italians are you talking about.
Do you ever read the thread before responding???
He's talking about Meditteranean Italians; read the subject header.
Susanx-no-archive: yes
dorsy1943 wrote:
> What Italians are you talking about.
Do you ever read the thread before responding???
He's talking about Meditteranean Italians; read the subject header.
Susan
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On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 11:46:24 +0300, "Juhana Harju" <...@mail.fi> wrote:
Jim Chinnis wrote:
> "Szczepan Bialek" <...@wp.pl> wrote in part:
>> "Ron Peterson" <
>>>
>>> The dairy fat consumption for the various countries based on 2005
>>> data is:
>>>
>>> Finland 7.445
>>> Norway 7.933
>>> New Zealand 7.5755
>>> Sweden 7.5595
>>> Spain 4.7945
>>> Australia 4.928
>>> United Kingdom 5.762
>>> United States 4.068
>>> Netherlands 5.4405
>>> Italy 6.058
>>> European Union (25 countries) 4.012
>>> Germany 6.5925
>>> Austria 5.739
>>> Switzerland 6.1555
>>> Canada 4.0875
>>> France 6.809
>>> Argentina 2.9325
>>> Greece 4.5155
>>> Ireland 3.3235
>>
>> " Italy 6.058" - It seems that they do not know that olive oil is
>> the best. Jim Chinnis should tell them.
>
> Ummm. The Italians eat a lot of dairy products as well as olive oil.
There is a difference between dairy and dairy. It is probably wrong to
equate cheese with nonfermented dairy as cheese has a noticeable amount of
vitamin K2 which is associated with a reduced cardiovascular risk. That
might be the reason for the fact that cheese has not been associated with
increased cardiovascular risk, as Professor Serge Renaud has noticed.
--
Juhana
Jim Chinnis wrote:
> "Szczepan Bialek" <...@wp.pl> wrote in part:
>> "Ron Peterson" <
>>>
>>> The dairy fat consumption for the various countries based on 2005
>>> data is:
>>>
>>> Finland 7.445
>>> Norway 7.933
>>> New Zealand 7.5755
>>> Sweden 7.5595
>>> Spain 4.7945
>>> Australia 4.928
>>> United Kingdom 5.762
>>> United States 4.068
>>> Netherlands 5.4405
>>> Italy 6.058
>>> European Union (25 countries) 4.012
>>> Germany 6.5925
>>> Austria 5.739
>>> Switzerland 6.1555
>>> Canada 4.0875
>>> France 6.809
>>> Argentina 2.9325
>>> Greece 4.5155
>>> Ireland 3.3235
>>
>> " Italy 6.058" - It seems that they do not know that olive oil is
>> the best. Jim Chinnis should tell them.
>
> Ummm. The Italians eat a lot of dairy products as well as olive oil.
There is a difference between dairy and dairy. It is probably wrong to
equate cheese with nonfermented dairy as cheese has a noticeable amount of
vitamin K2 which is associated with a reduced cardiovascular risk. That
might be the reason for the fact that cheese has not been associated with
increased cardiovascular risk, as Professor Serge Renaud has noticed.
--
Juhana
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On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 07:41:45 -0700, dorsy1943 <...@usadatanet.net> wrote:
On Jul 13, 10:05 pm, Don Wiss <...@no_spam.com> wrote:
> I was in Sweden when the press release came out on Staffan Lindeberg's
> study where a Paleolithic diet improves glucose tolerance more than a
> Mediterranean-like diet in individuals with ischemic heart disease. This
> was the first randomized study with the paleo diet.
>
> Now back home, I looked for the press mention of the news. I only found
> Bloomberg (no longer listed at Google) and this recent Science Magazine's
> piece:http://www.sciencemag.org/content/vol317/issue5835/r-samples.dtl
>
> Much more press elsewhere! See all the still up English press mentions:http://news.google.com/news?ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGIH_enUS227US227&q=Staff...
>
> At the publisher's site the abstract is free, and the full text is $32:http://www.springerlink.com/content/h7628r66r0552222
>
> Don <www.donwiss.com> (e-mail link at home page bottom).
I assume that by paleo diet you mean eating a lot of meat. The true
paleo diet probably involved gathering lots of plant foods and hunting
game which is only about 4 per cent fat. The same percentage of fat
is in insects except for termites which are about 23 per cent fat.
Also, the fat would contain lots of omega threes and would be quite
different from industrial meat. I eat a few ounces of canned, wild
caught alaska sockeye salmon each weak and the rest a whole food plant
based diet. (I was horrified to find out that the wild salmon in
alaska is raised from farmed salmon eggs that are subject to disease
and viruses and on which are used antibiotics and who knows what
else,)
Dolores
On Jul 13, 10:05 pm, Don Wiss <...@no_spam.com> wrote:
> I was in Sweden when the press release came out on Staffan Lindeberg's
> study where a Paleolithic diet improves glucose tolerance more than a
> Mediterranean-like diet in individuals with ischemic heart disease. This
> was the first randomized study with the paleo diet.
>
> Now back home, I looked for the press mention of the news. I only found
> Bloomberg (no longer listed at Google) and this recent Science Magazine's
> piece:http://www.sciencemag.org/content/vol317/issue5835/r-samples.dtl
>
> Much more press elsewhere! See all the still up English press mentions:http://news.google.com/news?ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGIH_enUS227US227&q=Staff...
>
> At the publisher's site the abstract is free, and the full text is $32:http://www.springerlink.com/content/h7628r66r0552222
>
> Don <www.donwiss.com> (e-mail link at home page bottom).
I assume that by paleo diet you mean eating a lot of meat. The true
paleo diet probably involved gathering lots of plant foods and hunting
game which is only about 4 per cent fat. The same percentage of fat
is in insects except for termites which are about 23 per cent fat.
Also, the fat would contain lots of omega threes and would be quite
different from industrial meat. I eat a few ounces of canned, wild
caught alaska sockeye salmon each weak and the rest a whole food plant
based diet. (I was horrified to find out that the wild salmon in
alaska is raised from farmed salmon eggs that are subject to disease
and viruses and on which are used antibiotics and who knows what
else,)
Dolores
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On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 01:39:14 -0800, floy...@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson) wrote:
dorsy1943 <...@usadatanet.net> wrote:
>different from industrial meat. I eat a few ounces of canned, wild
>caught alaska sockeye salmon each weak and the rest a whole food plant
>based diet. (I was horrified to find out that the wild salmon in
>alaska is raised from farmed salmon eggs that are subject to disease
>and viruses and on which are used antibiotics and who knows what
>else,)
I also eat a can of sockeye once a week. (I don't eat a
lot of red meat, but otherwise make no attempt to avoid
meat.)
However, I question your statement about "farmed salmon
eggs"! There are several hatcheries, but that is vastly
different than "farmed salmon". Also, off hand I don't
know that any of the hatcheries produce sockeye that we
are likely to buy in a can...
The Alaska Department of Fish and Game report for 2006
on the salmon "enhancement program" says that statewide
6% of the sockeye catch was of hatchery spawned fish.
However, there are no hatcheries operating in Bristol
Bay, and while I could not find any exact figures it is
almost certain that the vast majority of canned sockeye
salmon on store shelves comes from Bristol Bay.
You can be almost (but not quite 100%) sure that your
canned sockeye salmon is a totally wild fish.
--
Floyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson>
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floy...@apaflo.comdorsy1943 <...@usadatanet.net> wrote:
>different from industrial meat. I eat a few ounces of canned, wild
>caught alaska sockeye salmon each weak and the rest a whole food plant
>based diet. (I was horrified to find out that the wild salmon in
>alaska is raised from farmed salmon eggs that are subject to disease
>and viruses and on which are used antibiotics and who knows what
>else,)
I also eat a can of sockeye once a week. (I don't eat a
lot of red meat, but otherwise make no attempt to avoid
meat.)
However, I question your statement about "farmed salmon
eggs"! There are several hatcheries, but that is vastly
different than "farmed salmon". Also, off hand I don't
know that any of the hatcheries produce sockeye that we
are likely to buy in a can...
The Alaska Department of Fish and Game report for 2006
on the salmon "enhancement program" says that statewide
6% of the sockeye catch was of hatchery spawned fish.
However, there are no hatcheries operating in Bristol
Bay, and while I could not find any exact figures it is
almost certain that the vast majority of canned sockeye
salmon on store shelves comes from Bristol Bay.
You can be almost (but not quite 100%) sure that your
canned sockeye salmon is a totally wild fish.
--
Floyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson>
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floy...@apaflo.com
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On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 07:35:55 -0700, TC <...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Jul 14, 9:41 am, dorsy1943 <...@usadatanet.net> wrote:
> On Jul 13, 10:05 pm, Don Wiss <...@no_spam.com> wrote:
>
> > I was in Sweden when the press release came out on Staffan Lindeberg's
> > study where a Paleolithic diet improves glucose tolerance more than a
> > Mediterranean-like diet in individuals with ischemic heart disease. This
> > was the first randomized study with the paleo diet.
>
> > Now back home, I looked for the press mention of the news. I only found
> > Bloomberg (no longer listed at Google) and this recent Science Magazine's
> > piece:http://www.sciencemag.org/content/vol317/issue5835/r-samples.dtl
>
> > Much more press elsewhere! See all the still up English press mentions:http://news.google.com/news?ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGIH_enUS227US227&q=Staff...
>
> > At the publisher's site the abstract is free, and the full text is $32:http://www.springerlink.com/content/h7628r66r0552222
>
> > Don <www.donwiss.com> (e-mail link at home page bottom).
>
> I assume that by paleo diet you mean eating a lot of meat. The true
> paleo diet probably involved gathering lots of plant foods and hunting
> game which is only about 4 per cent fat. The same percentage of fat
> is in insects except for termites which are about 23 per cent fat.
> Also, the fat would contain lots of omega threes and would be quite
> different from industrial meat. I eat a few ounces of canned, wild
> caught alaska sockeye salmon each weak and the rest a whole food plant
> based diet. (I was horrified to find out that the wild salmon in
> alaska is raised from farmed salmon eggs that are subject to disease
> and viruses and on which are used antibiotics and who knows what
> else,)
>
> Dolores
A lot of silly assumptions. Hunter gatherers thrived on a relatively
high fat diet. Deer hunters tend to look for the deer with the biggest
set of antlers because they tend to have the biggest slab of back fat
which is used inmaking deer sausage. The fatter fish are the most
desireable, in terms if flavour and healthiness. Eggs are great food,
fat and all. People love fatty bacon because it tastes good and is
healthy. We thrive on animal fats.
On Jul 14, 9:41 am, dorsy1943 <...@usadatanet.net> wrote:
> On Jul 13, 10:05 pm, Don Wiss <...@no_spam.com> wrote:
>
> > I was in Sweden when the press release came out on Staffan Lindeberg's
> > study where a Paleolithic diet improves glucose tolerance more than a
> > Mediterranean-like diet in individuals with ischemic heart disease. This
> > was the first randomized study with the paleo diet.
>
> > Now back home, I looked for the press mention of the news. I only found
> > Bloomberg (no longer listed at Google) and this recent Science Magazine's
> > piece:http://www.sciencemag.org/content/vol317/issue5835/r-samples.dtl
>
> > Much more press elsewhere! See all the still up English press mentions:http://news.google.com/news?ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGIH_enUS227US227&q=Staff...
>
> > At the publisher's site the abstract is free, and the full text is $32:http://www.springerlink.com/content/h7628r66r0552222
>
> > Don <www.donwiss.com> (e-mail link at home page bottom).
>
> I assume that by paleo diet you mean eating a lot of meat. The true
> paleo diet probably involved gathering lots of plant foods and hunting
> game which is only about 4 per cent fat. The same percentage of fat
> is in insects except for termites which are about 23 per cent fat.
> Also, the fat would contain lots of omega threes and would be quite
> different from industrial meat. I eat a few ounces of canned, wild
> caught alaska sockeye salmon each weak and the rest a whole food plant
> based diet. (I was horrified to find out that the wild salmon in
> alaska is raised from farmed salmon eggs that are subject to disease
> and viruses and on which are used antibiotics and who knows what
> else,)
>
> Dolores
A lot of silly assumptions. Hunter gatherers thrived on a relatively
high fat diet. Deer hunters tend to look for the deer with the biggest
set of antlers because they tend to have the biggest slab of back fat
which is used inmaking deer sausage. The fatter fish are the most
desireable, in terms if flavour and healthiness. Eggs are great food,
fat and all. People love fatty bacon because it tastes good and is
healthy. We thrive on animal fats.
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On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 18:07:02 -0700, dorsy1943 <...@usadatanet.net> wrote:
On Jul 16, 10:35 am, TC <...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Jul 14, 9:41 am, dorsy1943 <...@usadatanet.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jul 13, 10:05 pm, Don Wiss <...@no_spam.com> wrote:
>
> > > I was in Sweden when the press release came out on Staffan Lindeberg's
> > > study where a Paleolithic diet improves glucose tolerance more than a
> > > Mediterranean-like diet in individuals with ischemic heart disease. This
> > > was the first randomized study with the paleo diet.
>
> > > Now back home, I looked for the press mention of the news. I only found
> > > Bloomberg (no longer listed at Google) and this recent Science Magazine's
> > > piece:http://www.sciencemag.org/content/vol317/issue5835/r-samples.dtl
>
> > > Much more press elsewhere! See all the still up English press mentions:http://news.google.com/news?ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGIH_enUS227US227&q=Staff...
>
> > > At the publisher's site the abstract is free, and the full text is $32:http://www.springerlink.com/content/h7628r66r0552222
>
> > > Don <www.donwiss.com> (e-mail link at home page bottom).
>
> > I assume that by paleo diet you mean eating a lot of meat. The true
> > paleo diet probably involved gathering lots of plant foods and hunting
> > game which is only about 4 per cent fat. The same percentage of fat
> > is in insects except for termites which are about 23 per cent fat.
> > Also, the fat would contain lots of omega threes and would be quite
> > different from industrial meat. I eat a few ounces of canned, wild
> > caught alaska sockeye salmon each weak and the rest a whole food plant
> > based diet. (I was horrified to find out that the wild salmon in
> > alaska is raised from farmed salmon eggs that are subject to disease
> > and viruses and on which are used antibiotics and who knows what
> > else,)
>
> > Dolores
>
> A lot of silly assumptions. Hunter gatherers thrived on a relatively
> high fat diet. Deer hunters tend to look for the deer with the biggest
> set of antlers because they tend to have the biggest slab of back fat
> which is used inmaking deer sausage. The fatter fish are the most
> desireable, in terms if flavour and healthiness. Eggs are great food,
> fat and all. People love fatty bacon because it tastes good and is
> healthy. We thrive on animal fats.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Colin Campbell's "The China Study" has lots and lots of well
referenced studies about high fat and protein diets. They don't
compare favorably to a plant based low fat and low protein diet. I
would be interested if anyone could point me to criticisms of his
methodology and conclusions in peer reviewed literature.
Ornish and Esselstyn have pictures of the change in arteries when
someone with blockages switches from a high meat and fat diet to a
plant based diet. I am not aware of any such pictures of improvements
on the Atkins, Zone, South Beach or any other low carb, high protein
and fat diet. I often read about reductions in risk factors in some
of these diets, but this isn't the same as an angiogram showing
improvement in arteries over many months.
I personally eat a diet very high in grains, beans, vegetables and
fruit and a little olive oil. However, despite what colin campbell,
ornish and others say about eliminating meat entirely, I am not
willing to get my B12 from pills and so I do eat a couple of ounces of
salmon or turkey a few times a week. I am t2 diabetic and control my
diabetes with diet and exercise--no meds yet after 16 years but I
assume that meds or insulin are in my future.
Dolores
On Jul 16, 10:35 am, TC <...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Jul 14, 9:41 am, dorsy1943 <...@usadatanet.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jul 13, 10:05 pm, Don Wiss <...@no_spam.com> wrote:
>
> > > I was in Sweden when the press release came out on Staffan Lindeberg's
> > > study where a Paleolithic diet improves glucose tolerance more than a
> > > Mediterranean-like diet in individuals with ischemic heart disease. This
> > > was the first randomized study with the paleo diet.
>
> > > Now back home, I looked for the press mention of the news. I only found
> > > Bloomberg (no longer listed at Google) and this recent Science Magazine's
> > > piece:http://www.sciencemag.org/content/vol317/issue5835/r-samples.dtl
>
> > > Much more press elsewhere! See all the still up English press mentions:http://news.google.com/news?ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGIH_enUS227US227&q=Staff...
>
> > > At the publisher's site the abstract is free, and the full text is $32:http://www.springerlink.com/content/h7628r66r0552222
>
> > > Don <www.donwiss.com> (e-mail link at home page bottom).
>
> > I assume that by paleo diet you mean eating a lot of meat. The true
> > paleo diet probably involved gathering lots of plant foods and hunting
> > game which is only about 4 per cent fat. The same percentage of fat
> > is in insects except for termites which are about 23 per cent fat.
> > Also, the fat would contain lots of omega threes and would be quite
> > different from industrial meat. I eat a few ounces of canned, wild
> > caught alaska sockeye salmon each weak and the rest a whole food plant
> > based diet. (I was horrified to find out that the wild salmon in
> > alaska is raised from farmed salmon eggs that are subject to disease
> > and viruses and on which are used antibiotics and who knows what
> > else,)
>
> > Dolores
>
> A lot of silly assumptions. Hunter gatherers thrived on a relatively
> high fat diet. Deer hunters tend to look for the deer with the biggest
> set of antlers because they tend to have the biggest slab of back fat
> which is used inmaking deer sausage. The fatter fish are the most
> desireable, in terms if flavour and healthiness. Eggs are great food,
> fat and all. People love fatty bacon because it tastes good and is
> healthy. We thrive on animal fats.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Colin Campbell's "The China Study" has lots and lots of well
referenced studies about high fat and protein diets. They don't
compare favorably to a plant based low fat and low protein diet. I
would be interested if anyone could point me to criticisms of his
methodology and conclusions in peer reviewed literature.
Ornish and Esselstyn have pictures of the change in arteries when
someone with blockages switches from a high meat and fat diet to a
plant based diet. I am not aware of any such pictures of improvements
on the Atkins, Zone, South Beach or any other low carb, high protein
and fat diet. I often read about reductions in risk factors in some
of these diets, but this isn't the same as an angiogram showing
improvement in arteries over many months.
I personally eat a diet very high in grains, beans, vegetables and
fruit and a little olive oil. However, despite what colin campbell,
ornish and others say about eliminating meat entirely, I am not
willing to get my B12 from pills and so I do eat a couple of ounces of
salmon or turkey a few times a week. I am t2 diabetic and control my
diabetes with diet and exercise--no meds yet after 16 years but I
assume that meds or insulin are in my future.
Dolores
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On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 09:58:45 -0700, Ron Peterson <...@shell.core.com> wrote:
On Jul 16, 9:35 am, TC <...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hunter gatherers thrived on a relatively
> high fat diet.
Wild game is low in fat.
> Deer hunters tend to look for the deer with the biggest
> set of antlers because they tend to have the biggest slab of back fat
> which is used inmaking deer sausage.
You apparently have never eaten deer sausage. The butchers in my area
trim the fat from the venison and add pork fat. The small amount of
fat in deer and elk is highly saturated, making it almost unpalatable.
> The fatter fish are the most
> desireable, in terms if flavour and healthiness.
Fatter fish are desirable from a health standpoint, but people pay a
premium for the less fatty fish.
> Eggs are great food, fat and all.
The fat from eggs comes from vegetarian sources making it relatively
harmless.
--
Ron
On Jul 16, 9:35 am, TC <...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hunter gatherers thrived on a relatively
> high fat diet.
Wild game is low in fat.
> Deer hunters tend to look for the deer with the biggest
> set of antlers because they tend to have the biggest slab of back fat
> which is used inmaking deer sausage.
You apparently have never eaten deer sausage. The butchers in my area
trim the fat from the venison and add pork fat. The small amount of
fat in deer and elk is highly saturated, making it almost unpalatable.
> The fatter fish are the most
> desireable, in terms if flavour and healthiness.
Fatter fish are desirable from a health standpoint, but people pay a
premium for the less fatty fish.
> Eggs are great food, fat and all.
The fat from eggs comes from vegetarian sources making it relatively
harmless.
--
Ron
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On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 11:11:42 -0700, TC <...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Jul 16, 11:58 am, Ron Peterson <...@shell.core.com> wrote:
> On Jul 16, 9:35 am, TC <...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hunter gatherers thrived on a relatively
> > high fat diet.
>
> Wild game is low in fat.
>
> > Deer hunters tend to look for the deer with the biggest
> > set of antlers because they tend to have the biggest slab of back fat
> > which is used inmaking deer sausage.
>
> You apparently have never eaten deer sausage. The butchers in my area
> trim the fat from the venison and add pork fat. The small amount of
> fat in deer and elk is highly saturated, making it almost unpalatable.
>
> > The fatter fish are the most
> > desireable, in terms if flavour and healthiness.
>
> Fatter fish are desirable from a health standpoint, but people pay a
> premium for the less fatty fish.
>
> > Eggs are great food, fat and all.
>
> The fat from eggs comes from vegetarian sources making it relatively
> harmless.
>
> --
> Ron
"The fat from eggs comes from vegetarian sources making it relatively
harmless."
That is, by far, the stupidest thing I have ever heard.
On Jul 16, 11:58 am, Ron Peterson <...@shell.core.com> wrote:
> On Jul 16, 9:35 am, TC <...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hunter gatherers thrived on a relatively
> > high fat diet.
>
> Wild game is low in fat.
>
> > Deer hunters tend to look for the deer with the biggest
> > set of antlers because they tend to have the biggest slab of back fat
> > which is used inmaking deer sausage.
>
> You apparently have never eaten deer sausage. The butchers in my area
> trim the fat from the venison and add pork fat. The small amount of
> fat in deer and elk is highly saturated, making it almost unpalatable.
>
> > The fatter fish are the most
> > desireable, in terms if flavour and healthiness.
>
> Fatter fish are desirable from a health standpoint, but people pay a
> premium for the less fatty fish.
>
> > Eggs are great food, fat and all.
>
> The fat from eggs comes from vegetarian sources making it relatively
> harmless.
>
> --
> Ron
"The fat from eggs comes from vegetarian sources making it relatively
harmless."
That is, by far, the stupidest thing I have ever heard.
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On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 18:10:49 -0700, dorsy1943 <...@usadatanet.net> wrote:
On Jul 16, 12:58 pm, Ron Peterson <...@shell.core.com> wrote:
> On Jul 16, 9:35 am, TC <...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hunter gatherers thrived on a relatively
> > high fat diet.
>
> Wild game is low in fat.
>
> > Deer hunters tend to look for the deer with the biggest
> > set of antlers because they tend to have the biggest slab of back fat
> > which is used inmaking deer sausage.
>
> You apparently have never eaten deer sausage. The butchers in my area
> trim the fat from the venison and add pork fat. The small amount of
> fat in deer and elk is highly saturated, making it almost unpalatable.
>
> > The fatter fish are the most
> > desireable, in terms if flavour and healthiness.
>
> Fatter fish are desirable from a health standpoint, but people pay a
> premium for the less fatty fish.
>
> > Eggs are great food, fat and all.
>
> The fat from eggs comes from vegetarian sources making it relatively
> harmless.
>
> --
> Ron
I don't think nature intended chickens to eat a vegetarian diet, at
least not the corn and other stuff fed to factory chickens. They are
supposed to range freely and eat lots of bugs and other stuff on the
ground.
Dolores
On Jul 16, 12:58 pm, Ron Peterson <...@shell.core.com> wrote:
> On Jul 16, 9:35 am, TC <...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hunter gatherers thrived on a relatively
> > high fat diet.
>
> Wild game is low in fat.
>
> > Deer hunters tend to look for the deer with the biggest
> > set of antlers because they tend to have the biggest slab of back fat
> > which is used inmaking deer sausage.
>
> You apparently have never eaten deer sausage. The butchers in my area
> trim the fat from the venison and add pork fat. The small amount of
> fat in deer and elk is highly saturated, making it almost unpalatable.
>
> > The fatter fish are the most
> > desireable, in terms if flavour and healthiness.
>
> Fatter fish are desirable from a health standpoint, but people pay a
> premium for the less fatty fish.
>
> > Eggs are great food, fat and all.
>
> The fat from eggs comes from vegetarian sources making it relatively
> harmless.
>
> --
> Ron
I don't think nature intended chickens to eat a vegetarian diet, at
least not the corn and other stuff fed to factory chickens. They are
supposed to range freely and eat lots of bugs and other stuff on the
ground.
Dolores
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On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 15:32:54 -0800, floy...@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson) wrote:
Ron Peterson <...@shell.core.com> wrote:
>On Jul 16, 9:35 am, TC <...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Hunter gatherers thrived on a relatively
>> high fat diet.
>
>Wild game is low in fat.
Some is, most isn't. For example, there are two main
sources of meat for people where I live, both of which
are wild. Bowhead whales and caribou. Bowhead whales
of course are extremely high fat, while caribou are low
fat. Either one is better than anything bought in a
store... :-)
And wild meat does not have marbled fat from being
loaded up on corn and hormones the way beef is.
>> Deer hunters tend to look for the deer with the biggest
>> set of antlers because they tend to have the biggest slab of back fat
>> which is used inmaking deer sausage.
>
>You apparently have never eaten deer sausage. The butchers in my area
>trim the fat from the venison and add pork fat. The small amount of
>fat in deer and elk is highly saturated, making it almost unpalatable.
That doesn't contradict what he said though.
>> The fatter fish are the most
>> desireable, in terms if flavour and healthiness.
>
>Fatter fish are desirable from a health standpoint, but people pay a
>premium for the less fatty fish.
They do? The best salmon are those with a higher fat
content...
>> Eggs are great food, fat and all.
>
>The fat from eggs comes from vegetarian sources making it relatively
>harmless.
Interesting concept. Doen't the fat on a cow come from
vegetarian sources?
--
Floyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson>
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floy...@apaflo.comRon Peterson <...@shell.core.com> wrote:
>On Jul 16, 9:35 am, TC <...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Hunter gatherers thrived on a relatively
>> high fat diet.
>
>Wild game is low in fat.
Some is, most isn't. For example, there are two main
sources of meat for people where I live, both of which
are wild. Bowhead whales and caribou. Bowhead whales
of course are extremely high fat, while caribou are low
fat. Either one is better than anything bought in a
store... :-)
And wild meat does not have marbled fat from being
loaded up on corn and hormones the way beef is.
>> Deer hunters tend to look for the deer with the biggest
>> set of antlers because they tend to have the biggest slab of back fat
>> which is used inmaking deer sausage.
>
>You apparently have never eaten deer sausage. The butchers in my area
>trim the fat from the venison and add pork fat. The small amount of
>fat in deer and elk is highly saturated, making it almost unpalatable.
That doesn't contradict what he said though.
>> The fatter fish are the most
>> desireable, in terms if flavour and healthiness.
>
>Fatter fish are desirable from a health standpoint, but people pay a
>premium for the less fatty fish.
They do? The best salmon are those with a higher fat
content...
>> Eggs are great food, fat and all.
>
>The fat from eggs comes from vegetarian sources making it relatively
>harmless.
Interesting concept. Doen't the fat on a cow come from
vegetarian sources?
--
Floyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson>
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floy...@apaflo.com
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On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 21:48:25 -0700, Ron Peterson <...@shell.core.com> wrote:
On Jul 16, 6:32 pm, fl.....@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson) wrote:
> Ron Peterson <...@shell.core.com> wrote:
> >The fat from eggs comes from vegetarian sources making it relatively
> >harmless.
> Interesting concept. Doen't the fat on a cow come from
> vegetarian sources?
Some does, but the saturated fat is produced by bacteria in the cow's
stomach.
--
Ron
On Jul 16, 6:32 pm, fl.....@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson) wrote:
> Ron Peterson <...@shell.core.com> wrote:
> >The fat from eggs comes from vegetarian sources making it relatively
> >harmless.
> Interesting concept. Doen't the fat on a cow come from
> vegetarian sources?
Some does, but the saturated fat is produced by bacteria in the cow's
stomach.
--
Ron
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On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 22:19:13 -0800, floy...@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson) wrote:
Ron Peterson <...@shell.core.com> wrote:
>On Jul 16, 6:32 pm, fl.....@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson) wrote:
>> Ron Peterson <...@shell.core.com> wrote:
>
>> >The fat from eggs comes from vegetarian sources making it relatively
>> >harmless.
>
>> Interesting concept. Doen't the fat on a cow come from
>> vegetarian sources?
>
>Some does, but the saturated fat is produced by bacteria in the cow's
>stomach.
From vegetarian sources...
--
Floyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson>
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floy...@apaflo.comRon Peterson <...@shell.core.com> wrote:
>On Jul 16, 6:32 pm, fl.....@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson) wrote:
>> Ron Peterson <...@shell.core.com> wrote:
>
>> >The fat from eggs comes from vegetarian sources making it relatively
>> >harmless.
>
>> Interesting concept. Doen't the fat on a cow come from
>> vegetarian sources?
>
>Some does, but the saturated fat is produced by bacteria in the cow's
>stomach.
From vegetarian sources...
--
Floyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson>
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floy...@apaflo.com
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On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 07:16:34 -0700, TC <...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Jul 18, 1:19 am, fl.....@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson) wrote:
> Ron Peterson <...@shell.core.com> wrote:
> >On Jul 16, 6:32 pm, fl.....@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson) wrote:
> >> Ron Peterson <...@shell.core.com> wrote:
>
> >> >The fat from eggs comes from vegetarian sources making it relatively
> >> >harmless.
>
> >> Interesting concept. Doen't the fat on a cow come from
> >> vegetarian sources?
>
> >Some does, but the saturated fat is produced by bacteria in the cow's
> >stomach.
>
> From vegetarian sources...
>
> --
> Floyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson>
> Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) fl.....@apaflo.com
Would be nice if I could change the entire complexion of my world by
the use of these surreal Ron Peterson logical constructs. Ron appears
to live in his own world.
On Jul 18, 1:19 am, fl.....@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson) wrote:
> Ron Peterson <...@shell.core.com> wrote:
> >On Jul 16, 6:32 pm, fl.....@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson) wrote:
> >> Ron Peterson <...@shell.core.com> wrote:
>
> >> >The fat from eggs comes from vegetarian sources making it relatively
> >> >harmless.
>
> >> Interesting concept. Doen't the fat on a cow come from
> >> vegetarian sources?
>
> >Some does, but the saturated fat is produced by bacteria in the cow's
> >stomach.
>
> From vegetarian sources...
>
> --
> Floyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson>
> Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) fl.....@apaflo.com
Would be nice if I could change the entire complexion of my world by
the use of these surreal Ron Peterson logical constructs. Ron appears
to live in his own world.
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