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On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 01:19:08 -0700 (PDT), ironjustice <...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Mar 15, 7:10 am, "Alan" <...@pacific.net> wrote:
Hi,
There are plenty articles on the benefit of taking omega-3 fatty acid (fis=h
oil).
Is there any report that long term consumption of omega-3 fatty acid (2 fi=sh
oil capsules per day) resulted to Fatty Liver or other adversed effect?
Alan
There are articles which show the use of fish oil leads to an increase
of oxidation in the body and this leads to a decrease of vitamin E in
the body and it is recommended one take vitamin E if one is using a
fish oil supplement.
One might look into the short-chain fatty acids found only in
plants .. like the one below.
"Even after 16-hr exposure to induced oxidation or 24-hr incubation
with cultured endothelial cells, macrophage uptake of the LDL was only
marginally enhanced.
The results suggest that diets sufficiently enriched in oleic acid, in
addition to their LDL-lowering effect, may slow the progression of
atherosclerosis by generating LDL that is highly resistant to
oxidative modification."
Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, Vol 87, 3894-3898,
Copyright © 1990 by National Academy of Sciences
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ARTICLE
Low Density Lipoprotein Rich in Oleic Acid is Protected Against
Oxidative Modification: Implications for Dietary Prevention of
Atherosclerosis
S Parthasarathy, JC Khoo, E Miller, J Barnett, JL Witztum and D
Steinberg
Oxidative modification of low density lipoprotein (LDL) enhances its
potential atherogenicity in several ways, notably by enhancing its
uptake into macrophages. In vivo studies in the rabbit show that
inhibition of LDL oxidation slows the progression of atherosclerotic
lesions. In the present studies, rabbits were fed either a newly
developed variant sunflower oil (Trisun 80), containing more than 80%
oleic acid and only 8% linoleic acid, or conventional sunflower oil,
containing only 20% oleic acid and 67% linoleic acid. LDL isolated
from the plasma of animals fed the variant sunflower oil was highly
enriched in oleic acid and very low in linoleic acid. These oleate-
rich LDL particles were remarkably resistant to oxidative
modification. Even after 16-hr exposure to copper-induced oxidation or
24-hr incubation with cultured endothelial cells, macrophage uptake of
the LDL was only marginally enhanced. The results suggest that diets
sufficiently enriched in oleic acid, in addition to their LDL-lowering
effect, may slow the progression of atherosclerosis by generating LDL
that is highly resistant to oxidative modification.
Who loves ya.
Tom
Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com
Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3
DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk
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On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 11:03:49 -0700 (PDT), Ron Peterson <...@shell.core.com> wrote:
On Mar 15, 9:10 am, "Alan" <...@pacific.net> wrote:
Hi,
There are plenty articles on the benefit of taking omega-3 fatty acid (fis=h
oil).
Is there any report that long term consumption of omega-3 fatty acid (2 fi=sh
oil capsules per day) resulted to Fatty Liver or other adversed effect?
http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/omega-3-000971.htm says:
"Possible Interactions with: Omega-3 Fatty Acids
Also listed as: Omega-3 Fatty Acids
Interactions
If you are currently being treated with any of the following
medications, you should not use omega-3 fatty acid supplements without
first talking to your healthcare provider.
Blood-thinning Medications - Omega-3 fatty acids may increase the
blood-thinning effects of aspirin or warfarin. While the combination
of aspirin and omega-3 fatty acids may actually be helpful under
certain circumstances (such as heart disease), they should only be
taken together under the guidance and supervision of your healthcare
provider.
Cyclosporine
Taking omega-3 fatty acids during cyclosporine therapy may reduce
toxic side effects (such as high blood pressure and kidney damage)
associated with this medication in transplant patients.
Etretinate and Topical Steroids - The addition of omega-3 fatty acids
(specifically EPA) to a drug regimen of etretinate and topical
corticosteroids may improve symptoms of psoriasis.
Cholesterol-lowering Medications - Following certain nutritional
guidelines, including increasing the amount of omega-3 fatty acids in
your diet and reducing the omega-6 to omega-3 ratio, may allow a group
of cholesterol lowering medications known as "statins" (such as
atorvastatin, lovastatin, and simvastatin) to work more effectively.
Nonsteroidal Anti-inflammatory Drugs (NSAIDs) - In an animal study,
treatment with omega-3 fatty acids reduced the risk of ulcers from
nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs). More research is needed
to evaluate whether omega-3 fatty acids would have the same effects in
people."
--
Ron
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On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 13:14:34 -0600, Pramesh Rutaji <...@newsguy.com> wrote:
Ron Peterson wrote:
On Mar 15, 9:10 am, "Alan" <...@pacific.net> wrote:
Hi,
There are plenty articles on the benefit of taking omega-3 fatty acid (fish
oil).
Is there any report that long term consumption of omega-3 fatty acid (2 fish
oil capsules per day) resulted to Fatty Liver or other adversed effect?
http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/omega-3-000971.htm says:
"Possible Interactions with: Omega-3 Fatty Acids
Also listed as: Omega-3 Fatty Acids
Interactions
If you are currently being treated with any of the following
medications, you should not use omega-3 fatty acid supplements without
first talking to your healthcare provider.
Blood-thinning Medications - Omega-3 fatty acids may increase the
blood-thinning effects of aspirin or warfarin. While the combination
of aspirin and omega-3 fatty acids may actually be helpful under
certain circumstances (such as heart disease), they should only be
taken together under the guidance and supervision of your healthcare
provider.
Does that mean that one should avoid eating fish, especially salmon?
This seems rather kooky considering how much fish oil needs to be taken
to create any detectable change in blood work.
Personally, I take fish oil that contains 2.5 grams of EPA+DHA, a full
strength aspirin, about 800 mg of all 8 isomers of vitamin E, ginkgo,
krill oil, and a couple of other things that are reported to thin the
blood. My bleeding times and coagulation times are perfectly normal as
reported by pt/ptt testing with an IIR of exactly 1.0 or normal.
--
Pramesh Rutaji
p297...@newsguy.com - remove tongue to reply
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On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 22:03:17 GMT, RF <...@Den.com> wrote:
Pramesh Rutaji wrote:
Ron Peterson wrote:
On Mar 15, 9:10 am, "Alan" <...@pacific.net> wrote:
Hi,
There are plenty articles on the benefit of taking omega-3 fatty acid
(fish
oil).
Is there any report that long term consumption of omega-3 fatty acid
(2 fish
oil capsules per day) resulted to Fatty Liver or other adversed effect?
http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/omega-3-000971.htm says:
"Possible Interactions with: Omega-3 Fatty Acids
Also listed as: Omega-3 Fatty Acids
Interactions
If you are currently being treated with any of the following
medications, you should not use omega-3 fatty acid supplements without
first talking to your healthcare provider.
Blood-thinning Medications - Omega-3 fatty acids may increase the
blood-thinning effects of aspirin or warfarin. While the combination
of aspirin and omega-3 fatty acids may actually be helpful under
certain circumstances (such as heart disease), they should only be
taken together under the guidance and supervision of your healthcare
provider.
Does that mean that one should avoid eating fish, especially salmon?
This seems rather kooky considering how much fish oil needs to be taken
to create any detectable change in blood work.
Personally, I take fish oil that contains 2.5 grams of EPA+DHA, a full
strength aspirin, about 800 mg of all 8 isomers of vitamin E, ginkgo,
krill oil, and a couple of other things that are reported to thin the
blood. My bleeding times and coagulation times are perfectly normal as
reported by pt/ptt testing with an IIR of exactly 1.0 or normal.
Thanks guys for the interesting comments.
I am a vegetarian and do not eat fish. I also have a problem
with eating
flax and chia seeds.
I know that the omega-3s can be extracted from both seeds
but according
to DrWeil the flax seed oil can injure the prostate gland.
He suggested that
adding lignans might help that problem but there isn't much
evidence.
Does anyone know if chia seed oil has a similar problem?
TIA
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On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 11:47:13 -0700 (PDT), Ron Peterson <...@shell.core.com> wrote:
On Mar 15, 5:03 pm, RF <...@Den.com> wrote:
Thanks guys for the interesting comments.
I am a vegetarian and do not eat fish. I also have a problem
with eating flax and chia seeds.
Whole flax seeds aren't very digestible, try ground flax seeds or
ground sprouted flax seeds instead.
I don't have any problems with chia seeds, but prepare them in drinks
or baked goods. An inexpensive coffee mill will help integrate chia
seeds with other foods.
Walnuts are more palatable than flax or chia, but are lower in omega 3
fatty acids, so you would probably need an ounce of walnuts to get a
reasonable amount of omega 3 fatty acids. You can also get omega 3
fatty acids from canola oil.
Those vegetarian sources only have the ALA version of omega 3 which
the body converts slowly to the more biologically active forms of EPA
and DHA. There is a vegetarian form of DHA that is available, but it's
more expensive than fish oil based omega 3 fatty acids.
Many green leafy vegetables are also high in omega 3 fatty acids.
I know that the omega-3s can be extracted from both seeds
but according to DrWeil the flax seed oil can injure the prostate gland.
He suggested that adding lignans might help that problem but there isn't much
evidence.
Dr Weil sells supplements and is just repeating speculations that he
has heard. There isn't any evidence that any of the usual fatty acids
are carcinogenic.
--
Ron
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On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 23:12:28 -0800, RF <...@Den.com> wrote:
Ron Peterson wrote:
On Mar 15, 5:03 pm, RF <...@Den.com> wrote:
Thanks guys for the interesting comments.
I am a vegetarian and do not eat fish. I also have a problem
with eating flax and chia seeds.
Whole flax seeds aren't very digestible, try ground flax seeds or
ground sprouted flax seeds instead.
I would never eat flax seeds directly and I believe they
would pass
through the body taking most of the nutrients with them They
would
form a transparent muous and I guess that is all that would
be absorbed.
I can't even find an analysis of that mucus.
I have used often a coffee grinder with a little added oats
or similar to
absorb the oil and stop the mix from being a paste. However
the ground
seeds are what sends me to the bathroom.
I don't have any problems with chia seeds, but prepare them in drinks
or baked goods. An inexpensive coffee mill will help integrate chia
seeds with other foods.
The seeds soften after about an hour in hot water and can be
taken directly
then but they sent me more often than the flax seeds.
Doesn't anyone do
studies of food intolerances?
Walnuts are more palatable than flax or chia, but are lower in omega 3
fatty acids, so you would probably need an ounce of walnuts to get a
reasonable amount of omega 3 fatty acids. You can also get omega 3
fatty acids from canola oil.
Canola oil is my only good fairly good source at present. My
system does
not tolerate walnuts either.
Those vegetarian sources only have the ALA version of omega 3 which
the body converts slowly to the more biologically active forms of EPA
and DHA. There is a vegetarian form of DHA that is available, but it's
more expensive than fish oil based omega 3 fatty acids.
Many green leafy vegetables are also high in omega 3 fatty acids.
Yes, but with the tiny amounts, how many pounds would it
take to give
a day's supply?
I know that the omega-3s can be extracted from both seeds
but according to DrWeil the flax seed oil can injure the prostate gland.
He suggested that adding lignans might help that problem but there
isn't much evidence.
Dr Weil sells supplements and is just repeating speculations that he
has heard. There isn't any evidence that any of the usual fatty acids
are carcinogenic.
It's true that he does a lot of advertizing and selling
these days but, in this case,
if he wanted to make money on it, why would he not sell the
flax oil and keep
shut up about the research that has been done? See below for
his comment in
Oct 2006.
Thanks Ron for your input.
RF
--
Ron
Although flaxseed oil seems to be safe for women, I still
haven't seen any
data showing that it is safe for men. In October 2004,
Nutrition Journal
published an analysis of nutrition and cancer. One
meta-analysis included
in that publication reviewed nine studies that revealed an
association between
flaxseed oil intake or high blood levels of alpha-linolenic
acid and increased
risk of prostate cancer. The author speculated that the
lignans in flaxseed are
a major component of its anti-cancer effects and that the
lack of lignans in
most brands of flaxseed oil may explain why flaxseed oil is
not beneficial.
Until we know more about the risk flaxseed oil appears to
present, I
recommend that men avoid it, or at least stick to brands
that put the lignans
back in. Flaxseeds, however, present no danger to men.
RF Note: Another danger lies in my toilet getting blown up ;-)
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On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 11:58:21 -0700 (PDT), Ron Peterson <...@shell.core.com> wrote:
On Mar 15, 2:14 pm, Pramesh Rutaji <...@newsguy.com> wrote:
Does that mean that one should avoid eating fish, especially salmon?
No. There isn't any evidence for excessive bleeding for a healthy
person consuming a diet high in omega 3.
This seems rather kooky considering how much fish oil needs to be taken
to create any detectable change in blood work.
If a person is on a blood thinning drug, there may be an added risk.
Many people take aspirin for its anti platelet activity, so those
people might have a problem with very large doses.
Personally, I take fish oil that contains 2.5 grams of EPA+DHA, a full
strength aspirin, about 800 mg of all 8 isomers of vitamin E, ginkgo,
krill oil, and a couple of other things that are reported to thin the
blood. My bleeding times and coagulation times are perfectly normal as
reported by pt/ptt testing with an IIR of exactly 1.0 or normal.
Your omega 3 intake seems fine, and you might have some ALA intake
through your diet.
A full strength aspirin seems like its too much since 40 mg is all
that is needed for anti-platelet activity. I think research has shown
that the 81mg capsule doesn't cause excessive bleeding in a
significant number of cases.
--
Ron
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On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 16:01:45 -0600, Pramesh Rutaji <...@newsguy.com> wrote:
Ron Peterson wrote:
On Mar 15, 2:14 pm, Pramesh Rutaji <...@newsguy.com> wrote:
Does that mean that one should avoid eating fish, especially salmon?
No. There isn't any evidence for excessive bleeding for a healthy
person consuming a diet high in omega 3.
This seems rather kooky considering how much fish oil needs to be taken
to create any detectable change in blood work.
If a person is on a blood thinning drug, there may be an added risk.
Blood thinning drugs are a problem. Working closely with one's doctor,
one can take them with vitamin K in order to stabilize the drug thinning
effects. It requires more of the drug but day to day and week to week
diet changes don't require one to constantly modify the drug thinning
dosage. At that point, I would expect that diet would have a much
smaller effect.
Many people take aspirin for its anti platelet activity, so those
people might have a problem with very large doses.
Personally, I take fish oil that contains 2.5 grams of EPA+DHA, a full
strength aspirin, about 800 mg of all 8 isomers of vitamin E, ginkgo,
krill oil, and a couple of other things that are reported to thin the
blood. My bleeding times and coagulation times are perfectly normal as
reported by pt/ptt testing with an IIR of exactly 1.0 or normal.
Your omega 3 intake seems fine, and you might have some ALA intake
through your diet.
A full strength aspirin seems like its too much since 40 mg is all
that is needed for anti-platelet activity. I think research has shown
that the 81mg capsule doesn't cause excessive bleeding in a
significant number of cases.
Had a heart attack and titrated up from 81 mg aspirin to full strength
when I was titrating down and getting off of Plavix, a very nasty drug.
--
Pramesh Rutaji
p297...@newsguy.com - remove tongue to reply
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On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 21:24:17 -0700 (PDT), Ron Peterson <...@shell.core.com> wrote:
On Mar 16, 5:01 pm, Pramesh Rutaji <...@newsguy.com> wrote:
Blood thinning drugs are a problem. Working closely with one's doctor,
one can take them with vitamin K in order to stabilize the drug thinning
effects. It requires more of the drug but day to day and week to week
diet changes don't require one to constantly modify the drug thinning
dosage. At that point, I would expect that diet would have a much
smaller effect.
IIRC, vitamin K has a number of good effects on the vascular system
including reducing the calcification of the arteries.
Had a heart attack and titrated up from 81 mg aspirin to full strength
when I was titrating down and getting off of Plavix, a very nasty drug.
Aspirin is one of the safer drugs, so it's good that it's working for
you.
--
Ron
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On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 21:45:21 GMT, RF <...@Den.com> wrote:
RF Note: I sent this yesterday but it has not appeared on my
server.
Please excuse if you see a duplicate.
Ron Peterson wrote:
> On Mar 15, 5:03 pm, RF <...@Den.com> wrote:
>
>> Thanks guys for the interesting comments.
>
>> I am a vegetarian and do not eat fish. I also have a problem
>> with eating flax and chia seeds.
>
> Whole flax seeds aren't very digestible, try ground flax
seeds or
> ground sprouted flax seeds instead.
I would never eat flax seeds directly and I believe they
would pass
through the body taking most of the nutrients with them They
would
form a transparent muous and I guess that is all that would
be absorbed.
I can't even find an analysis of that mucus.
I have used often a coffee grinder with a little added oats
or similar to
absorb the oil and stop the mix from being a paste. However
the ground
seeds are what sends me to the bathroom.
> I don't have any problems with chia seeds, but prepare
them in drinks
> or baked goods. An inexpensive coffee mill will help
integrate chia
> seeds with other foods.
The seeds soften after about an hour in hot water and can be
taken directly
then but they sent me more often than the flax seeds.
Doesn't anyone do
studies of food intolerances?
> Walnuts are more palatable than flax or chia, but are
lower in omega 3
> fatty acids, so you would probably need an ounce of
walnuts to get a
> reasonable amount of omega 3 fatty acids. You can also
get omega 3
> fatty acids from canola oil.
Canola oil is my only good fairly good source at present. My
system does
not tolerate walnuts either.
> Those vegetarian sources only have the ALA version of
omega 3 which
> the body converts slowly to the more biologically active
forms of EPA
> and DHA. There is a vegetarian form of DHA that is
available, but it's
> more expensive than fish oil based omega 3 fatty acids.
>
> Many green leafy vegetables are also high in omega 3
fatty acids.
Yes, but with the tiny amounts, how many pounds would it
take to give
a day's supply?
>> I know that the omega-3s can be extracted from both seeds
>> but according to DrWeil the flax seed oil can injure the
prostate gland.
>> He suggested that adding lignans might help that problem
but there isn't much evidence.
>
> Dr Weil sells supplements and is just repeating
speculations that he
> has heard. There isn't any evidence that any of the usual
fatty acids
> are carcinogenic.
It's true that he does a lot of advertizing and selling
these days but, in this case,
if he wanted to make money on it, why would he not sell the
flax oil and keep
shut up about the research that has been done? See below for
his comment in
Oct 2006.
Thanks Ron for your input.
RF
> --
> Ron
Although flaxseed oil seems to be safe for women, I still
haven't seen any
data showing that it is safe for men. In October 2004,
Nutrition Journal
published an analysis of nutrition and cancer. One
meta-analysis included
in that publication reviewed nine studies that revealed an
association between
flaxseed oil intake or high blood levels of alpha-linolenic
acid and increased
risk of prostate cancer. The author speculated that the
lignans in flaxseed are
a major component of its anti-cancer effects and that the
lack of lignans in
most brands of flaxseed oil may explain why flaxseed oil is
not beneficial.
Until we know more about the risk flaxseed oil appears to
present, I
recommend that men avoid it, or at least stick to brands
that put the lignans
back in. Flaxseeds, however, present no danger to men.
RF Note: Another danger lies in my toilet getting blown up ;-)
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On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 14:59:18 -0800, Mark Thorson <...@sonic.net> wrote:
RF wrote:
I would never eat flax seeds directly and I believe they
would pass
through the body taking most of the nutrients with them They
would
form a transparent muous and I guess that is all that would
be absorbed.
I can't even find an analysis of that mucus.
It's not mucus. That stuff that comes out of the seeds
is mucilage. It's harmless.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mucilage
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On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 22:08:50 GMT, RF <...@Den.com> wrote:
Mark Thorson wrote:
RF wrote:
I would never eat flax seeds directly and I believe they
would pass
through the body taking most of the nutrients with them They
would
form a transparent muous and I guess that is all that would
be absorbed.
I can't even find an analysis of that mucus.
It's not mucus. That stuff that comes out of the seeds
is mucilage. It's harmless.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mucilage
It looked like transparent mucus to me ;-)
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On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 18:22:31 -0700 (PDT), Taka <...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mar 18, 6:45 am, RF <...@Den.com> wrote:
RF Note: I sent this yesterday but it has not appeared on my
server.
Please excuse if you see a duplicate.
Ron Peterson wrote:
> On Mar 15, 5:03 pm, RF <...@Den.com> wrote:
>
>> Thanks guys for the interesting comments.
>
>> I am a vegetarian and do not eat fish. I also have a problem
>> with eating flax and chia seeds.
>
> Whole flax seeds aren't very digestible, try ground flax
seeds or
> ground sprouted flax seeds instead.
I would never eat flax seeds directly and I believe they
would pass
through the body taking most of the nutrients with them They
would
form a transparent muous and I guess that is all that would
be absorbed.
I can't even find an analysis of that mucus.
I have used often a coffee grinder with a little added oats
or similar to
absorb the oil and stop the mix from being a paste. However
the ground
seeds are what sends me to the bathroom.
> I don't have any problems with chia seeds, but prepare
them in drinks
> or baked goods. An inexpensive coffee mill will help
integrate chia
> seeds with other foods.
The seeds soften after about an hour in hot water and can be
taken directly
then but they sent me more often than the flax seeds.
Doesn't anyone do
studies of food intolerances?
> Walnuts are more palatable than flax or chia, but are
lower in omega 3
> fatty acids, so you would probably need an ounce of
walnuts to get a
> reasonable amount of omega 3 fatty acids. You can also
get omega 3
> fatty acids from canola oil.
Canola oil is my only good fairly good source at present. My
system does
not tolerate walnuts either.
> Those vegetarian sources only have the ALA version of
omega 3 which
> the body converts slowly to the more biologically active
forms of EPA
> and DHA. There is a vegetarian form of DHA that is
available, but it's
> more expensive than fish oil based omega 3 fatty acids.
>
> Many green leafy vegetables are also high in omega 3
fatty acids.
Yes, but with the tiny amounts, how many pounds would it
take to give
a day's supply?
>> I know that the omega-3s can be extracted from both seeds
>> but according to DrWeil the flax seed oil can injure the
prostate gland.
>> He suggested that adding lignans might help that problem
but there isn't much evidence.
>
> Dr Weil sells supplements and is just repeating
speculations that he
> has heard. There isn't any evidence that any of the usual
fatty acids
> are carcinogenic.
It's true that he does a lot of advertizing and selling
these days but, in this case,
if he wanted to make money on it, why would he not sell the
flax oil and keep
shut up about the research that has been done? See below for
his comment in
Oct 2006.
Thanks Ron for your input.
RF
> --
> Ron
Although flaxseed oil seems to be safe for women, I still
haven't seen any
data showing that it is safe for men. In October 2004,
Nutrition Journal
published an analysis of nutrition and cancer. One
meta-analysis included
in that publication reviewed nine studies that revealed an
association between
flaxseed oil intake or high blood levels of alpha-linolenic
acid and increased
risk of prostate cancer. The author speculated that the
lignans in flaxseed are
a major component of its anti-cancer effects and that the
lack of lignans in
most brands of flaxseed oil may explain why flaxseed oil is
not beneficial.
Until we know more about the risk flaxseed oil appears to
present, I
recommend that men avoid it, or at least stick to brands
that put the lignans
back in. Flaxseeds, however, present no danger to men.
RF Note: Another danger lies in my toilet getting blown up ;-)
I cannot really understand why all you people are torturing yourself
with the highly unsaturated oils and seeds/nuts after all what have
been posted here by me and Monty. Just to be politically correct by
supplementing Omega-3s? There are much safer alternatives such as
magnesium if you like to be shitting in the toilet whole days ...
Even the most stupid should understand the body language and not eat
what makes them sick.
Taka
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On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 21:28:43 -0700 (PDT), Ron Peterson <...@shell.core.com> wrote:
On Mar 17, 8:22 pm, Taka <...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mar 18, 6:45 am, RF <...@Den.com> wrote:
> RF Note: I sent this yesterday but it has not appeared on my
> server.
> Please excuse if you see a duplicate.
> Ron Peterson wrote:
> > On Mar 15, 5:03 pm, RF <...@Den.com> wrote:
> >> Thanks guys for the interesting comments.
> >> I am a vegetarian and do not eat fish. I also have a problem
> >> with eating flax and chia seeds.
> > Whole flax seeds aren't very digestible, try ground flax
> seeds or
> > ground sprouted flax seeds instead.
> I would never eat flax seeds directly and I believe they
> would pass
> through the body taking most of the nutrients with them They
> would
> form a transparent muous and I guess that is all that would
> be absorbed.
> I can't even find an analysis of that mucus.
> I have used often a coffee grinder with a little added oats
> or similar to
> absorb the oil and stop the mix from being a paste. However
> the ground
> seeds are what sends me to the bathroom.
> > I don't have any problems with chia seeds, but prepare
> them in drinks
> > or baked goods. An inexpensive coffee mill will help
> integrate chia
> > seeds with other foods.
> The seeds soften after about an hour in hot water and can be
> taken directly
> then but they sent me more often than the flax seeds.
> Doesn't anyone do
> studies of food intolerances?
> > Walnuts are more palatable than flax or chia, but are
> lower in omega 3
> > fatty acids, so you would probably need an ounce of
> walnuts to get a
> > reasonable amount of omega 3 fatty acids. You can also
> get omega 3
> > fatty acids from canola oil.
> Canola oil is my only good fairly good source at present. My
> system does
> not tolerate walnuts either.
> > Those vegetarian sources only have the ALA version of
> omega 3 which
> > the body converts slowly to the more biologically active
> forms of EPA
> > and DHA. There is a vegetarian form of DHA that is
> available, but it's
> > more expensive than fish oil based omega 3 fatty acids.
> > Many green leafy vegetables are also high in omega 3
> fatty acids.
> Yes, but with the tiny amounts, how many pounds would it
> take to give
> a day's supply?
> >> I know that the omega-3s can be extracted from both seeds
> >> but according to DrWeil the flax seed oil can injure the
> prostate gland.
> >> He suggested that adding lignans might help that problem
> but there isn't much evidence.
> > Dr Weil sells supplements and is just repeating
> speculations that he
> > has heard. There isn't any evidence that any of the usual
> fatty acids
> > are carcinogenic.
> It's true that he does a lot of advertizing and selling
> these days but, in this case,
> if he wanted to make money on it, why would he not sell the
> flax oil and keep
> shut up about the research that has been done? See below for
> his comment in
> Oct 2006.
> Thanks Ron for your input.
> RF
> > --
> > Ron
> Although flaxseed oil seems to be safe for women, I still
> haven't seen any
> data showing that it is safe for men. In October 2004,
> Nutrition Journal
> published an analysis of nutrition and cancer. One
> meta-analysis included
> in that publication reviewed nine studies that revealed an
> association between
> flaxseed oil intake or high blood levels of alpha-linolenic
> acid and increased
> risk of prostate cancer. The author speculated that the
> lignans in flaxseed are
> a major component of its anti-cancer effects and that the
> lack of lignans in
> most brands of flaxseed oil may explain why flaxseed oil is
> not beneficial.
> Until we know more about the risk flaxseed oil appears to
> present, I
> recommend that men avoid it, or at least stick to brands
> that put the lignans
> back in. Flaxseeds, however, present no danger to men.
> RF Note: Another danger lies in my toilet getting blown up ;-)
I cannot really understand why all you people are torturing yourself
with the highly unsaturated oils and seeds/nuts after all what have
been posted here by me and Monty. ...
There are just too many studies that report the beneficial effects of
foods such as walnuts like http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/504600_4
which says:
"Strategies to enhance the adaptability of the Mediterranean dietary
pattern to other cultures continue to be explored. Recent
investigations have focused on various food alternatives--including a
clinical trial that found that substituting walnuts for
monounsaturated fat in a Mediterranean diet enhances vascular health.
[41] The purpose of the study was to test the hypothesis that walnut
consumption could improve endothelial function in subjects with
hypercholesterolemia. Epidemiologic studies and clinical trials have
demonstrated that high nut consumption can significantly decrease the
risk of CHD. The positive effects of nuts are attributed to their high
content of dietary fiber, folic acid, antioxidants, and L-arginine
(precursor of the vasodilator nitric oxide). Walnuts, in particular,
also have a high content of ALA. The study was significant because
unlike previous investigations, which focused on the effect of
individual factors on vascular function, it encompassed the effects of
whole foods rich in these components."
--
Ron
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On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 22:32:14 -0800, RF <...@Den.com> wrote:
Taka wrote:
On Mar 18, 6:45 am, RF <...@Den.com> wrote:
RF Note: I sent this yesterday but it has not appeared on my
server.
Please excuse if you see a duplicate.
Ron Peterson wrote:
> On Mar 15, 5:03 pm, RF <...@Den.com> wrote:
>
>> Thanks guys for the interesting comments.
>
>> I am a vegetarian and do not eat fish. I also have a problem
>> with eating flax and chia seeds.
>
> Whole flax seeds aren't very digestible, try ground flax
seeds or
> ground sprouted flax seeds instead.
I would never eat flax seeds directly and I believe they
would pass
through the body taking most of the nutrients with them They
would
form a transparent muous and I guess that is all that would
be absorbed.
I can't even find an analysis of that mucus.
I have used often a coffee grinder with a little added oats
or similar to
absorb the oil and stop the mix from being a paste. However
the ground
seeds are what sends me to the bathroom.
> I don't have any problems with chia seeds, but prepare
them in drinks
> or baked goods. An inexpensive coffee mill will help
integrate chia
> seeds with other foods.
The seeds soften after about an hour in hot water and can be
taken directly
then but they sent me more often than the flax seeds.
Doesn't anyone do
studies of food intolerances?
> Walnuts are more palatable than flax or chia, but are
lower in omega 3
> fatty acids, so you would probably need an ounce of
walnuts to get a
> reasonable amount of omega 3 fatty acids. You can also
get omega 3
> fatty acids from canola oil.
Canola oil is my only good fairly good source at present. My
system does
not tolerate walnuts either.
> Those vegetarian sources only have the ALA version of
omega 3 which
> the body converts slowly to the more biologically active
forms of EPA
> and DHA. There is a vegetarian form of DHA that is
available, but it's
> more expensive than fish oil based omega 3 fatty acids.
>
> Many green leafy vegetables are also high in omega 3
fatty acids.
Yes, but with the tiny amounts, how many pounds would it
take to give
a day's supply?
>> I know that the omega-3s can be extracted from both seeds
>> but according to DrWeil the flax seed oil can injure the
prostate gland.
>> He suggested that adding lignans might help that problem
but there isn't much evidence.
>
> Dr Weil sells supplements and is just repeating
speculations that he
> has heard. There isn't any evidence that any of the usual
fatty acids
> are carcinogenic.
It's true that he does a lot of advertizing and selling
these days but, in this case,
if he wanted to make money on it, why would he not sell the
flax oil and keep
shut up about the research that has been done? See below for
his comment in
Oct 2006.
Thanks Ron for your input.
RF
> --
> Ron
Although flaxseed oil seems to be safe for women, I still
haven't seen any
data showing that it is safe for men. In October 2004,
Nutrition Journal
published an analysis of nutrition and cancer. One
meta-analysis included
in that publication reviewed nine studies that revealed an
association between
flaxseed oil intake or high blood levels of alpha-linolenic
acid and increased
risk of prostate cancer. The author speculated that the
lignans in flaxseed are
a major component of its anti-cancer effects and that the
lack of lignans in
most brands of flaxseed oil may explain why flaxseed oil is
not beneficial.
Until we know more about the risk flaxseed oil appears to
present, I
recommend that men avoid it, or at least stick to brands
that put the lignans
back in. Flaxseeds, however, present no danger to men.
RF Note: Another danger lies in my toilet getting blown up ;-)
I cannot really understand why all you people are torturing yourself
with the highly unsaturated oils and seeds/nuts after all what have
been posted here by me and Monty. Just to be politically correct by
supplementing Omega-3s? There are much safer alternatives such as
magnesium if you like to be shitting in the toilet whole days ...
Even the most stupid should understand the body language and not eat
what makes them sick.
Taka
OK smartie. Don't you know that magnesium can cause exactly
the same toilet
problem? Make a breakfast of oats, sesame seeds and
sunflower seeds and
you can easily have a meal with over 500 gr of the Mg.
Solutions for constipation
start with pills around 250 Mg. I think you are in need of
one of those ;-)
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On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 18:47:11 -0800, Mark Thorson <...@sonic.net> wrote:
Taka wrote:
I cannot really understand why all you people are torturing
yourself with the highly unsaturated oils and seeds/nuts
after all what have been posted here by me and Monty.
It's because clinical studies demonstrate that
unsaturated oils reduce inflammation and cholesterol.
Saturated fats increase these risk factors for
cardiovascular disease.
The fringe theories unsupported by any clinical data
posted by you and monty are unconvincing to any but
the most gullible. In particular, coconut oil is
among the worst oils, with regard to health.
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On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 17:57:19 -0700 (PDT), Taka <...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mar 18, 11:47 am, Mark Thorson <...@sonic.net> wrote:
In particular, coconut oil is
among the worst oils, with regard to health.
Do you have any scientific studies to support this conclusion except
for rabbits fed oxidized cholesterol with coconut oil or the
statistical "plays" with mortalities in south Asian countries which
recently switched to the vegetable oils?
Taka
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On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 19:50:21 -0800, Mark Thorson <...@sonic.net> wrote:
Taka wrote:
On Mar 18, 11:47 am, Mark Thorson <...@sonic.net> wrote:
> In particular, coconut oil is
> among the worst oils, with regard to health.
Do you have any scientific studies to support this conclusion
except for rabbits fed oxidized cholesterol with coconut oil
or the statistical "plays" with mortalities in south Asian
countries which recently switched to the vegetable oils?
Absolutely! Here it is!
This study blames the MUCH higher rate of
cardiovascular mortality in Singapore as compared
to Hong Kong on consumption of saturated fats
including coconut oil.
Eur J Epidemiol. 2001;17(5):469-77.
Differences in all-cause, cardiovascular and
cancer mortality between Hong Kong and Singapore:
role of nutrition.
Zhang J, Kesteloot H.
Department of Epidemiology, School of Public
Health, Catholic University of Leuven, Belgium.
BACKGROUND: The majority of inhabitants in Hong Kong
and Singapore are ethnic Chinese, but all-cause and
cardiovascular mortality rates in these two regions
are markedly different. This study describes
differences in the magnitude and trends in mortality
and attempts to explain these differences.
METHODS: Data of mortality rates in 1963-1965 and
1993-1995 in the age class of 45-74 years, dietary
habits and other factors were compared between
Hong Kong and Singapore using Japan, Spain and the USA
as reference countries. Mortality and food consumption
data were obtained from WHO and FAO, respectively.
RESULTS: Large differences in all-cause and cardiovascular
mortality exist between Hong Kong and Singapore. The
difference in total cancer mortality was less consistent
and smaller. The most pronounced finding was that ischemic
heart disease mortality in 1993-1995 was 2.98 and 3.14 times
higher in Singapore than in Hong Kong in men and women,
respectively. Of the five countries considered, Singapore
has the highest all-cause mortality in both sexes in the
period of 1960-1995. The ratio of animal to vegetal fat
was higher in Singapore (2.24) than in Hong Kong (1.08).
Singapore had higher serum concentrations of total
cholesterol and low-density lipoprotein cholesterol
than Hong Kong, but the opposite result was observed
for high-density lipoprotein cholesterol.
CONCLUSIONS: There are striking differences in all-cause
and cardiovascular mortality between Hong Kong and
Singapore. These differences can be most reasonably and
plausibly explained by their differences in dietary
habits, for example, a higher consumption of coconut and
palm oil, mainly containing saturated fat, in Singapore.
Coconut oil raises bad cholesterol more than
beef fat!
Am J Clin Nutr. 1985 Aug;42(2):190-7.
Plasma lipid and lipoprotein response of humans
to beef fat, coconut oil and safflower oil.
Reiser R, Probstfield JL, Silvers A, Scott LW,
Shorney ML, Wood RD, O'Brien BC, Gotto AM Jr,
Insull W Jr.
This study's purpose was to evaluate the fasting
human plasma lipid and lipoprotein responses to
dietary beef fat (BF) by comparison with coconut
oil (CO) and safflower oil (SO), fats customarily
classified as saturated and polyunsaturated.
Nineteen free-living normolipidemic men aged
25.6 +/- 3.5 yr consumed centrally-prepared
lunches and dinners of common foods having 35%
fat calories, 60% of which was the test fat.
The test fats were isocalorically substituted,
and each fed for five weeks in random sequences
with intervening five weeks of habitual diets.
Plasma total cholesterol (TC), high-density
lipoprotein cholesterol (HDL-C), and low-density
lipoprotein cholesterol (LDL-C) concentrations
among individuals follows the same relative rank
regardless of diet. Triglycerides (TG)
concentrations among individuals also maintain
their relative rank regardless of diet but in
a different order from that of the cholesterols.
Plasma TC, HDL-C, and LDL-C responses to BF were
significantly lower and TG higher than to CO.
As compared to SO, BF produced equivalent levels
of TG, HDL-C, and LDL-C and marginally higher TC.
Thus, the customary consideration of BF as
"saturated" and grouping it with CO appears
unwarranted.
This study in a rat model for myocardial
infarction (induced with a synthetic hormone)
found omega-3 fatty acids to be protective
against lipid peroxidation and cardiovascular
death, while coconut oil raised indicators of
damage to the heart muscle.
J Nutr Biochem. 1999 Jun;10(6):338-44.
Effect of saturated, omega-3 and omega-6
polyunsaturated fatty acids on myocardial
infarction.
Nageswari K, Banerjee R, Menon VP.
School of Biomedical Engineering, Indian
Institute of Technology, Bombay, India.
Dietary fatty acids have cholesterol lowering,
antiatherogenic, and antiarrhythmic properties
that decrease the risk of myocardial infarction (MI).
This study was designed to study the effects of
various oils rich in either polyunsaturated
(omega-3 or omega-6) fatty acids (PUFA) or
saturated fatty acids (SFA) on the severity of
experimentally induced MI. Male albino Sprague-Dawley
rats (100-150 g; n = 20) were fed diets enriched with
fish oil (omega-3 PUFA), peanut oil (omega-6 PUFA),
or coconut oil (SFA) for 60 days. Experimental MI was
induced with isoproterenol. Mortality rates; serum
enzymes aspartate amino transferase; alanine amino
transferase; creatine phosphokinase (CPK); lipid
profiles in serum, myocardium, and aorta; peroxide
levels in heart and aorta; activities of catalase and
superoxide dismutase; and levels of glutathione were
measured. The results demonstrated that mortality rate,
CPK levels, myocardial lipid peroxides, and glutathione
levels were decreased in the omega-3 PUFA treated group.
Maximum increase in parameters indicative of myocardial
damage was seen in the coconut oil group. These findings
suggest that dietary omega-3 PUFA offers maximum
protection in experimentally induced MI in comparison
to omega-6 PUFA and SFA enriched diets. SFA was found
to have the least protective effect.
COCONUT OIL IS BAD STUFF !!! COCONUT OIL KILLS !!!
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On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 22:11:34 -0700 (PDT), Taka <...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mar 19, 12:50 pm, Mark Thorson <...@sonic.net> wrote:
The ratio of animal to vegetal fat
was higher in Singapore (2.24) than in Hong Kong (1.08).
more animal fat in Singapore here
a higher consumption of coconut and
palm oil, mainly containing saturated fat, in Singapore.
and now higher consumption of [vegetal] coconut oil in Singapore?
Do these authors classify coconut oil as animal fat then? I wouldn't
trust them a word ...
Coconut oil raises bad cholesterol more than
beef fat!
High cholesterol protects you from cancer and correlates with lowest
mortality in old age.
Am J Clin Nutr. 1985 Aug;42(2):190-7.
Plasma lipid and lipoprotein response of humans
to beef fat, coconut oil and safflower oil.
Reiser R, Probstfield JL, Silvers A, Scott LW,
Shorney ML, Wood RD, O'Brien BC, Gotto AM Jr,
Insull W Jr.
This study's purpose was to evaluate the fasting
human plasma lipid and lipoprotein responses to
dietary beef fat (BF) by comparison with coconut
oil (CO) and safflower oil (SO), fats customarily
classified as saturated and polyunsaturated.
Nineteen free-living normolipidemic men aged
25.6 +/- 3.5 yr consumed centrally-prepared
lunches and dinners of common foods having 35%
fat calories, 60% of which was the test fat.
The test fats were isocalorically substituted,
and each fed for five weeks in random sequences
with intervening five weeks of habitual diets.
Plasma total cholesterol (TC), high-density
lipoprotein cholesterol (HDL-C), and low-density
lipoprotein cholesterol (LDL-C) concentrations
among individuals follows the same relative rank
regardless of diet. Triglycerides (TG)
concentrations among individuals also maintain
their relative rank regardless of diet but in
a different order from that of the cholesterols.
Plasma TC, HDL-C, and LDL-C responses to BF were
significantly lower and TG higher than to CO.
As compared to SO, BF produced equivalent levels
of TG, HDL-C, and LDL-C and marginally higher TC.
Thus, the customary consideration of BF as
"saturated" and grouping it with CO appears
unwarranted.
This study in a rat model for myocardial
infarction (induced with a synthetic hormone)
found omega-3 fatty acids to be protective
against lipid peroxidation and cardiovascular
death, while coconut oil raised indicators of
damage to the heart muscle.
J Nutr Biochem. 1999 Jun;10(6):338-44.
Effect of saturated, omega-3 and omega-6
polyunsaturated fatty acids on myocardial
infarction.
Nageswari K, Banerjee R, Menon VP.
School of Biomedical Engineering, Indian
Institute of Technology, Bombay, India.
Dietary fatty acids have cholesterol lowering,
antiatherogenic, and antiarrhythmic properties
that decrease the risk of myocardial infarction (MI).
This study was designed to study the effects of
various oils rich in either polyunsaturated
(omega-3 or omega-6) fatty acids (PUFA) or
saturated fatty acids (SFA) on the severity of
experimentally induced MI. Male albino Sprague-Dawley
rats (100-150 g; n = 20) were fed diets enriched with
fish oil (omega-3 PUFA), peanut oil (omega-6 PUFA),
or coconut oil (SFA) for 60 days.
60 days is not enough to get the accumulated arachidonic acid out of
the mice cells. The coconut oil will not prevent its release and
metabolization like the Omega-3s do. They should conduct a lifetime-
long experiments with mice fed coconut oil for at least a year ...
Experimental MI was
induced with isoproterenol. Mortality rates; serum
enzymes aspartate amino transferase; alanine amino
transferase; creatine phosphokinase (CPK); lipid
profiles in serum, myocardium, and aorta; peroxide
levels in heart and aorta; activities of catalase and
superoxide dismutase; and levels of glutathione were
measured. The results demonstrated that mortality rate,
CPK levels, myocardial lipid peroxides, and glutathione
levels were decreased in the omega-3 PUFA treated group.
Maximum increase in parameters indicative of myocardial
damage was seen in the coconut oil group. These findings
suggest that dietary omega-3 PUFA offers maximum
protection in experimentally induced MI in comparison
to omega-6 PUFA and SFA enriched diets. SFA was found
to have the least protective effect.
COCONUT OIL IS BAD STUFF !!! COCONUT OIL KILLS !!!
bullshit, Kitava thrives on coconut oil and has one of the lowest CHD
and metabolic syndrome rates:
http://www.thepaleodiet.com/articles/Lindeberg%20TG%20Final.pdf (PMID:
12817903)
Taka
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On Wed, 19 Mar 2008 11:33:40 -0800, Mark Thorson <...@sonic.net> wrote:
Taka wrote:
On Mar 19, 12:50 pm, Mark Thorson <...@sonic.net> wrote:
> The ratio of animal to vegetal fat
> was higher in Singapore (2.24) than in Hong Kong (1.08).
more animal fat in Singapore here
> a higher consumption of coconut and
> palm oil, mainly containing saturated fat, in Singapore.
and now higher consumption of [vegetal] coconut oil in Singapore?
Do these authors classify coconut oil as animal fat then? I wouldn't
trust them a word ...
No, of course not. That's just your spin on a study
you can't refute.
> Coconut oil raises bad cholesterol more than
> beef fat!
High cholesterol protects you from cancer and correlates
with lowest mortality in old age.
Can you cite any data? It seems flatly absurd
to assert that high serum cholesterol is good
for you, but please feel to cite any studies
that back up your assertion.
> Am J Clin Nutr. 1985 Aug;42(2):190-7.
> Plasma lipid and lipoprotein response of humans
> to beef fat, coconut oil and safflower oil.
> Reiser R, Probstfield JL, Silvers A, Scott LW,
> Shorney ML, Wood RD, O'Brien BC, Gotto AM Jr,
> Insull W Jr.
>
> This study's purpose was to evaluate the fasting
> human plasma lipid and lipoprotein responses to
> dietary beef fat (BF) by comparison with coconut
> oil (CO) and safflower oil (SO), fats customarily
> classified as saturated and polyunsaturated.
> Nineteen free-living normolipidemic men aged
> 25.6 +/- 3.5 yr consumed centrally-prepared
> lunches and dinners of common foods having 35%
> fat calories, 60% of which was the test fat.
> The test fats were isocalorically substituted,
> and each fed for five weeks in random sequences
> with intervening five weeks of habitual diets.
> Plasma total cholesterol (TC), high-density
> lipoprotein cholesterol (HDL-C), and low-density
> lipoprotein cholesterol (LDL-C) concentrations
> among individuals follows the same relative rank
> regardless of diet. Triglycerides (TG)
> concentrations among individuals also maintain
> their relative rank regardless of diet but in
> a different order from that of the cholesterols.
> Plasma TC, HDL-C, and LDL-C responses to BF were
> significantly lower and TG higher than to CO.
> As compared to SO, BF produced equivalent levels
> of TG, HDL-C, and LDL-C and marginally higher TC.
> Thus, the customary consideration of BF as
> "saturated" and grouping it with CO appears
> unwarranted.
>
> This study in a rat model for myocardial
> infarction (induced with a synthetic hormone)
> found omega-3 fatty acids to be protective
> against lipid peroxidation and cardiovascular
> death, while coconut oil raised indicators of
> damage to the heart muscle.
>
> J Nutr Biochem. 1999 Jun;10(6):338-44.
> Effect of saturated, omega-3 and omega-6
> polyunsaturated fatty acids on myocardial
> infarction.
> Nageswari K, Banerjee R, Menon VP.
> School of Biomedical Engineering, Indian
> Institute of Technology, Bombay, India.
>
> Dietary fatty acids have cholesterol lowering,
> antiatherogenic, and antiarrhythmic properties
> that decrease the risk of myocardial infarction (MI).
> This study was designed to study the effects of
> various oils rich in either polyunsaturated
> (omega-3 or omega-6) fatty acids (PUFA) or
> saturated fatty acids (SFA) on the severity of
> experimentally induced MI. Male albino Sprague-Dawley
> rats (100-150 g; n = 20) were fed diets enriched with
> fish oil (omega-3 PUFA), peanut oil (omega-6 PUFA),
> or coconut oil (SFA) for 60 days.
60 days is not enough to get the accumulated arachidonic acid out of
the mice cells. The coconut oil will not prevent its release and
metabolization like the Omega-3s do. They should conduct a lifetime-
long experiments with mice fed coconut oil for at least a year ...
And if they had run the experiment that long, you'd
have some other lame excuse for not accepting their
results, which are:
> Experimental MI was
> induced with isoproterenol. Mortality rates; serum
> enzymes aspartate amino transferase; alanine amino
> transferase; creatine phosphokinase (CPK); lipid
> profiles in serum, myocardium, and aorta; peroxide
> levels in heart and aorta; activities of catalase and
> superoxide dismutase; and levels of glutathione were
> measured. The results demonstrated that mortality rate,
> CPK levels, myocardial lipid peroxides, and glutathione
> levels were decreased in the omega-3 PUFA treated group.
> Maximum increase in parameters indicative of myocardial
> damage was seen in the coconut oil group. These findings
> suggest that dietary omega-3 PUFA offers maximum
> protection in experimentally induced MI in comparison
> to omega-6 PUFA and SFA enriched diets. SFA was found
> to have the least protective effect.
They found omega-3 fatty acids are the most protective,
coconut oil is the least. End of story.
> COCONUT OIL IS BAD STUFF !!! COCONUT OIL KILLS !!!
bullshit, Kitava thrives on coconut oil and has one of the lowest CHD
and metabolic syndrome rates:
http://www.thepaleodiet.com/articles/Lindeberg%20TG%20Final.pdf (PMID:
12817903)
Taka
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On Wed, 19 Mar 2008 18:25:39 -0700 (PDT), Taka <...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mar 20, 4:33 am, Mark Thorson <...@sonic.net> wrote:
> High cholesterol protects you from cancer and correlates
> with lowest mortality in old age.
Can you cite any data? It seems flatly absurd
to assert that high serum cholesterol is good
for you, but please feel to cite any studies
that back up your assertion.
There are plenty of studies cited e.g. here showing that low
cholesterol correlates with increased cancer:
http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/search/label/Colorectal%20cancer%20and%2 0cholesterol
And Ray Peat has also written quite a lot about cholesterol with
references which I don't have time right now to go picking up
(www.raypeat.com). Also you can enlighten yourself at the THINCS site
- http://www.thincs.org/public.htm
Of course correlation doesn't automatically mean causation but your
cites are not any better ...
Taka
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On Wed, 19 Mar 2008 21:34:03 -0700 (PDT), Ron Peterson <...@shell.core.com> wrote:
On Mar 19, 8:25 pm, Taka <...@gmail.com> wrote:
There are plenty of studies cited e.g. here showing that low
cholesterol correlates with increased cancer:
http://circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/96/7/2128 indicates
that low cholesterol correlates with cancer only for smokers.
--
Ron
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On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 13:10:50 -0800, Mark Thorson <...@sonic.net> wrote:
Taka wrote:
On Mar 20, 4:33 am, Mark Thorson <...@sonic.net> wrote:
> > High cholesterol protects you from cancer and correlates
> > with lowest mortality in old age.
>
> Can you cite any data? It seems flatly absurd
> to assert that high serum cholesterol is good
> for you, but please feel to cite any studies
> that back up your assertion.
There are plenty of studies cited e.g. here showing that low
cholesterol correlates with increased cancer:
http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/search/label/Colorectal%20cancer%20and%2 0cholesterol
But you can't or won't cite any specific study,
because then you might be asked to defend it or
explain how it is relevant to the question at hand.
You won't cite specific studies, like I did.
And Ray Peat has also written quite a lot about cholesterol with
references which I don't have time right now to go picking up
(www.raypeat.com). Also you can enlighten yourself at the THINCS
site - http://www.thincs.org/public.htm
Again, no citation of a specific study. You don't
want to be pinned down on any of your alleged
"evidence". I understand. Data is not your
strong suit.
Of course correlation doesn't automatically mean causation
but your cites are not any better ...
Except that I actually cited studies in peer-reviewed
scientific literature. You didn't do that, and you
don't appear to understand the difference between
what I did and the sort of hand-waving and references
to dubious web sites that you do.
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