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Re: Spiegel: BICKERING IN THE BALKANS

On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 15:23:31 -0700 (PDT), ADR <...@yahoo.com

On Apr 28, 3:26 am, pavel <...@yahoo.com
Pavel,

In relation to the articles that you have posted, I have send the
following letter to "Der Spiegel"

Dear sir/madam:

I am writing in reference to the articles by Walter Mayr that appeared
in the March 19, 2009 issue of your magazine and covered the ongoing
dispute between Greece and the F.Y.R.of Macedonia (FYROM). I was
astonished that a magazine as prestigious as yours produced such a
biased report in which most of the sources quoted are based in FYROM
and no opinion by the vast majority of Greeks in support of the Greek
position was ever sought, presented or analyzed. From the article, it
appears that the Greeks are mindless nationalist morons who do not
understand the finer complexities of the situation. Mr. Mayr neither
spared the facts in support of his thesis nor did he even exercise a
modicum of logic in his analysis.

I would like to provide a full answer to the pernicious article by Mr.
Mayr. However, I would only highlight some of his main gaps in
logic. He quotes the current Greek PM, Konstantinos Karamanlis (who
is actually a Macedonian) for stating that "there never was a
Macedonian minority in Greece". For Mr. Mayr, this is a clear
indication of how unreasonable the Greek position is. He fails to
even comprehend that Greece has 2.7 million Macedonians, the
inhabitants of its largest province, the vast majority of which
identify as Greeks and oppose the claims emanating from FYROM.

Greece has never denied the existence of slavonic-speaking
Macedonians. In fact, there are many excellent works on this
population by many senior members of the Greek Academia. Thus, Mr.
Gruevski is totally disingenuous as quoted by Mr. Mayr (although,
knowning the rhetoric of Mr. Gruevski, I think that the word "slavic"
was added by Mr. Mayr). Greece and the vast majority of Greeks would
love for the politicians and the nationalist fringe in FYROM to
identify as "Slavic Macedonians". However, Mr. Mayr knows (and has
studiously concealed) that neither Mr. Gruevski nor the nationalist
fringe in FYROM would ever willingly adopt the designation of "Slavic
Macedonians". Quite the contrary, they insist of identifying
themselves purely as "Macedonians". Not only they do so, they
actually deny such designation to the 2.7 million inhabitants of the
Greek province of Macedonia, which not only I but my ancestors called
home for many centuries. I, and many of my fellow Macedonians find
this an outwardly hostile and offensive position. We do not have any
quarrels with "Slavic Macedonians" but we do indeed have a quarrel
with those who insist of depriving us of our identity.

In addition, Mr. Mayr probably knows the nationalist hysteria
unleashed by Mr. Gruevski, the rants about "Greek occupation" and
"partition", the "Macedonization" of facilities in FYROM, the erection
of statues of famous ancient Macedonians in the cities, etc, etc, but
instead he chooses to chastise the Greek government which has offered
a number of reasonable compromises, none regarded as acceptable by the
nationalist groups that Mr. Gruevski represents.

Der Spiegel has done its readers a great disservice allowing Mr.
Mayr's article to be published without any editorial controls and the
appropriate balance. I hope that in the future, Der Spiegel would
exercise better control and provide a more balanced coverage of a very
important issue.

Yours sincerely,

Anastassios D. Retzios, Ph.D.
San Ramon, California, USA



On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 03:42:47 -0700 (PDT), pavel <...@yahoo.com

On 30 Апр, 01:23, ADR <...@yahoo.com
Anastassios,

Your letter to Der Spiegel is biased and non-objective.
On the other hand Mr Mayr's article presents the name
issue correctly and in right light.

But have you mentioned how much similar articles have
appeared recently in the European and North-American press?
That is not because of some Macedonist plot against Greece.
That is because the world is tired from the Greek obstinacy
and lack of reality. Indeed Mr Gruevski declared that the
name "Republic of Macedonia (Skopje)" can be accepted
from our side. Please, explain why that name is unacceptable
from the Greek side. There is the so desired differentiation
and the name is geographically based. Also the Greeks
can continue with their practice to call their northern
neighbours "Skopians" ("Skopjans"), or as they want.

For me personally, the opinion of the former Prime Minister
Mr Ljubcho Georgievski is important. He said that some
of the Greek proposals (for example Northern Macedonia)
are good ones for discussion and can be accepted from
both sides. Also the former President Kiro Gligorov
declared something similar. He said that he would find
a compromise together with the Greek side. Unfortunately
the recent government of the Republic of Macedonia -
the Prime Minister Nikola Gruevski and the President Gjorge
Ivanov (both proteges of the former Prime Minister Ljubcho
Georgievski) are on other opinion and they are for
continuing of the confrontation. Maybe they have to hear
what are saying the more skilled politicians from
the country.


On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 11:43:56 -0700 (PDT), ADR <...@yahoo.com

On Apr 30, 3:42 am, pavel <...@yahoo.com

Pavel, I hate cheap editorializing. If you believe there is a bias
somewhere, please state so. Otherwise, refrain from comments. Point
out the specifics or, otherwise, I would assume that you have no point
whatsoever.

Actually, quite the reverse. Recent articles in the Economist are far
better in indicating what has been goint

No, I do not think that it is a "Macedonist" plot. However, in many
ways it used to reflect an US position that believed that the slavs of
FYROM are in urgent need of an identity, otherwise this country would
collapse in chaos. If this identity comes to the expense of Greece,
well, no big loss since Greece is not a great friend of the US. Or so
the thinking went. I am not sure how it would be approached today.
Mr. Mayr takes the same line. An identity is paramount, even a fake
one.

I have not seen Mr. Gruevski stating this, ever. But the reason that
this would not be acceptable, is that the parenthesis would be
abandoned soon and the term "Republic of Macedonia" would become the
defacto name. Mr. Gruevski knows this pretty well and he plays silly
games.

Absolutely, we will continue doing what is the best for us. I do not
believe that the name "Skopjians" is accurate and I do not apply it.

This is peculiar, Pavel. At one point you seem to embrace Gruevski's
position and then you seem to reject it. Where are you? You seem to
want to play both ends against the middle. Which is not peculiar.
With nationalist hysteria in FYROM, maybe you do not want to appear to
be "reasonable". Your choice, but it is a bit schizosphrenic.

On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 12:19:21 -0700 (PDT), "++" <...@gmail.com

On Apr 30, 2:43 pm, ADR <...@yahoo.com
that he is an American with a negative opinion on a German magazine
article

On Sat, 2 May 2009 00:09:17 -0700, "Spirit of Truth" <...@prodigy.net

"++" <...@y10g2000prc.googlegroups.com...wrote:

nothing.

Spirit of Truth


On Fri, 1 May 2009 00:42:44 +0300, "gogu" <...@la_Greci.com

"ADR" <...@z8g2000prd.googlegroups.com...

And because Mr. Gruevski wants this name to be used *only* in the bilateral
relations but the rest of the world to use the name "Republic of Macedonia"!

--

E' mai possibile, oh porco di un cane, che le avventure
in codesto reame debban risolversi tutte con grandi
puttane! F.d.A

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http://s208.photobucket.com/albums/bb120/golanule/
http://gogu.enosi.org/index.html


On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 21:52:50 -0700 (PDT), ADR <...@yahoo.com

On Apr 30, 2:42 pm, "gogu" <...@la_Greci.com
Correct. As long as Gruevski is in power, a compromise on this issue
is virtually impossible. It is interesting that Greece and Bulgaria
have decided to collaborate on this issue with the release of the
Bulgarian archives on the creation of the Yugoslav Republic of
Macedonia. Hopefully, the joined position would help subside the US-
initiated hysteria that unless the slavic population of FYROM attains
an identity, the Balkans would be destabilized. I do not know who
began this line of thinking, but it has caused a lot of harm already.
It is high time for this stupidity to end.

On Sat, 2 May 2009 00:11:15 -0700, "Spirit of Truth" <...@prodigy.net

"gogu" <...@mouse.otenet.gr...

Which is simply dumb stupidity. He either has low IQ or thinks
everyone else has.

Spirit of Truths


Discussion Title: Re: Spiegel: BICKERING IN THE BALKANS
Title Keywords: Spiegel:  BICKERING  BALKANS