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"This is an insanely violent society, and the worst of that violence is made insanely easy by the widespread availability of guns"

On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 05:24:08 -0700 (PDT), Phil Smythe <...@upnaway.com

A Culture Soaked in Blood

By BOB HERBERT
Published: April 24, 2009

Philip Markoff, a medical student, supposedly carried his
semiautomatic in a hollowed-out volume of “Gray’s Anatomy.” Police
believe he used it in a hotel room in Boston last week to murder
Julissa Brisman, a 26-year-old woman who had advertised her services
as a masseuse on Craigslist.

In Palm Harbor, Fla., a 12-year-old boy named Jacob Larson came across
a gun in the family home that, according to police, his parents had
forgotten they had. Jacob shot himself in the head and is in a coma,
police said. Authorities believe the shooting was accidental.

There is no way to overstate the horror of gun violence in America.
Roughly 16,000 to 17,000 Americans are murdered every year, and more
than 12,000 of them, on average, are shot to death. This is an
insanely violent society, and the worst of that violence is made
insanely easy by the widespread availability of guns.

When the music producer Phil Spector decided, for whatever reason, to
kill the actress, Lana Clarkson, all he had to do was reach for his
gun — one of the 283 million privately owned firearms that are out
there. When John Muhammad and his teenage accomplice, Lee Malvo, went
on a killing spree that took 10 lives in the Washington area, the
absolute least of their worries was how to get a semiautomatic rifle
that fit their deadly mission.

We’re confiscating shampoo from carry-on luggage at airports while at
the same time handing out high-powered weaponry to criminals and
psychotics at gun shows.

There were ceremonies marking the recent 10th anniversary of the
shootings at Columbine High School, but very few people remember a
mass murder just five months after Columbine, when a man with a
semiautomatic handgun opened fire on congregants praying in a Baptist
church in Fort Worth. Eight people died, including the gunman, who
shot himself.

A little more than a year before the Columbine killings, two boys with
high-powered rifles killed a teacher and four little girls at a school
in Jonesboro, Ark. That’s not widely remembered either. When something
is as pervasive as gun violence in the U.S., which is as common as
baseball in the summertime, it’s very hard for individual cases to
remain in the public mind.

Homicides are only a part of the story.

While more than 12,000 people are murdered with guns annually, the
Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence (using the latest available
data) tells us that more than 30,000 people are killed over the course
of one typical year by guns. That includes 17,000 who commit suicide,
nearly 800 who are killed in accidental shootings and more than 300
killed by the police. (In many of the law enforcement shootings, the
police officers are reacting to people armed with guns).

And then there are the people who are shot but don’t die. Nearly
70,000 fall into that category in a typical year, including 48,000 who
are criminally attacked, 4,200 who survive a suicide attempt, more
than 15,000 who are shot accidentally, and more than 1,000 — many with
a gun in possession — who are shot by the police.

The medical cost of treating gunshot wounds in the U.S. is estimated
to be well more than $2 billion annually. And the Violence Policy
Center, a gun control advocacy group, has noted that nonfatal gunshot
wounds are the leading cause of uninsured hospital stays.

The toll on children and teenagers is particularly heartbreaking.
According to the Brady Campaign, more than 3,000 kids are shot to
death in a typical year. More than 1,900 are murdered, more than 800
commit suicide, about 170 are killed accidentally and 20 or so are
killed by the police.

Another 17,000 are shot but survive.

I remember writing from Chicago two years ago about the nearly three
dozen public school youngsters who were shot to death in a variety of
circumstances around the city over the course of just one school year.
Arne Duncan, who was then the chief of the Chicago schools and is now
the U.S. secretary of education, said to me at the time: “That’s more
than a kid every two weeks. Think about that.”

Actually, that’s our problem. We don’t really think about it. If the
crime is horrible enough, we’ll go through the motions of public
anguish but we never really do anything about it. Americans are as
blasé as can be about this relentless slaughter that keeps the culture
soaked in blood.

This blasé attitude, this willful refusal to acknowledge the scope of
the horror, leaves the gun nuts free to press their crazy case for
more and more guns in ever more hands. They’re committed to keeping
the killing easy, and we should be committed for not stopping them.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/25/opinion/25herbert.html?ref=opinion



On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 11:30:08 -0500, Jim Alder <...@ssnet.com

Phil Smythe <...@x1g2000prh.googlegroups.com:

made insanely easy by the widespread availability of guns"

Horse. Shit.

--
Some people are more interested in
creating heat than shedding light.

On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 06:17:04 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude <...@yahoo.com

In talk.politics.guns Phil Smythe <...@upnaway.com

I think NYC should ban guns. That worked so well for Washington D.C.
Then we could have a police state like Australia, where the cops are
so fucking stupid they mistake car parts for guns and people murder
with nail guns.

On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 06:39:35 -0700 (PDT), Phil Smythe <...@upnaway.com

On Apr 26, 9:17 pm, Klaus Schadenfreude <...@yahoo.comwrote:

Australia, that place with a quarter the US murder rate? Is that what
you meant, Buck?

On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 06:50:13 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude <...@yahoo.com

In talk.politics.guns Phil Smythe <...@upnaway.com

That's the place. The tiny little country of Australia, We don't want
to be like them. Get it?

On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 10:47:23 -0400, Bama Brian <...@att.net

Australia, that place that does not publish all of its crime stats,
conveniently ignoring the Aboriginal crime rates.

--
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
George Santayana, 1863 - 1952

Cheers,
Bama Brian
Libertarian

On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 07:49:29 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude <...@yahoo.com

In talk.politics.guns Bama Brian <...@att.net

That's a good way to convince your citizens that they did the right
thing by turning in their guns.

On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 11:51:56 -0500, "SaPeIsMa" <...@HotMail.com

The usual collection of lies, misinformation, and omissions, to gull the
ignorant and those who perpetuate the lies lie smythe.

Some examples
1) "There is no way to overstate the horror of gun violence in America."
All you need to do is compare it to the horror of "car violence"
where accidental death is 53 times greater (about ~800 vs. ~43,000, and
accidental injury is 400 times greater

2) "Roughly 16,000 to 17,000 Americans are murdered every year,
and more than 12,000 of them, on average, are shot to death."
This implicits that if you remove the guns the total rate would
decrease
This is FALSE and has been SHOWN to be false

3) " and more than 12,000 of them, on average, are shot to death."
This statistic includes murder, and justified homicide such as a
lawfull homicide by police or citizens.
Ironically, gun control would prevent people from defending
themselves from criminal attacks, to the rate of over 2,500,000 Defensive
Gun Uses each year.

4) "This is an insanely violent society, and the worst of that violence
is made insanely easy by the widespread availability of guns."
At least he got the first part right
But there is ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE to support the claim that guns
facilitate the violence
As a matter of fact, both the CDC and NAS state that in their
research.

5) "..while at the same time handing out high-powered weaponry to
criminals and psychotics at gun shows."
Another OUTRIGHT LIE..
This the nonsense about "gun show loophole"
There is NO "gun show loophole".
The laws that apply away from gun shows are JUST AS APPLICABLE at
gun shows.

6) "There were ceremonies marking the recent 10th anniversary of the
shootings at Columbine High School,"
But there are NONE to commemorate the successful defenses of schools
like Pearl High School and Appalachian Law School, by an armed
Vice-Principal, and two armed students respectively.

7) "..but very few people remember a mass murder just five months after
Columbine, when a man with a semiautomatic handgun opened fire on
congregants praying in a Baptist church in Fort Worth"
And gun controllers NEVER talk about the protection of a Colorado
Church by an armed member, by stopping a killer in the parking lot.

8) While more than 12,000 people are murdered with guns annually, the
Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence (using the latest available data)
tells us that more than 30,000 people are killed over the course of one
typical year by guns. That includes 17,000 who commit suicide, nearly 800
who are killed in accidental shootings and more than 300 killed by the
police. (In many of the law enforcement shootings, the police officers are
reacting to people armed with guns)."
Here we have a WHOLE slew of lies
a) Suicides are means-independant. In effect those suicides would
use something else to kill themselves if a gun were not available. And
taking away guns, would NOT reduce those numbers
b) The 800 accidental deaths and 300 killed by police are part of
the 12,000 homicides
Separating the numbers while not indicating that they were
already counted elsewhere is a LIE
c) And in many of the police shooting of "people with guns" we
have PRIMARILY FELONS who according to the current laws, are barred being
armed and yet were able to get guns ILLEGALLY. Which means that MORE LEGAL
restrictions will continue to be IGNORED by the criminals.

9) The same nonsense holds for the so-called accidental shooting injuries
It's also interesting to compare that to car injuries which exceed
2,000,000. which is far larger than gun related injuries.

10) The same holds for medical costs due to car injuries vs. gun
injuries.
Because of the far higher and variety of injuries in car accidents
the cost is DISPROPORTIONATELY higher

11) The numbers cited for children are already INCLUDED in the total
numbers
To try to make it sound like it's a whole new set of numbers,
reduces this article to propaganda instead of honest reporting or
commentary.

12) Interestingly, in the last 20 years, while the numbers of guns have
INCREASED, the number of people killed and injured with guns has DECREASED
During the same time the carry laws in most of the states have ALSO
been loosened, and CONTRARY to the anguished claims of the gun-controllers,
the accidental and criminal injury and death rates have DECREASED..

Clearly we have here case of hand-wringing that is based of FALSE
information, whose intent is to scare instead of informing people
Time for the NYTimes to change it's name to PRAVDA.
Because the Soviet PRAVDA, has been replaced and surpassed by the NY
TIMES


On Mon, 27 Apr 2009 00:56:05 +1000, "Charles L" <...@dodo.com.au

"Phil Smythe" <...@x1g2000prh.googlegroups.com...

If guns are so bad then why hasn't the author got the balls to call
for a
blanket ban on them then?

Charles L


On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 08:06:40 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude <...@yahoo.com

In talk.politics.guns "Charles L" <...@dodo.com.au

Because even he is smart enough to know that's not the solution. Too
bad we can't say the same about Phil.

On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 11:59:06 -0500, Jim Alder <...@ssnet.com

Klaus Schadenfreude <...@4ax.com:

Okay, I'll bite. What IS the solution?

--
Some people are more interested in
creating heat than shedding light.

On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 12:54:19 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude <...@yahoo.com

In talk.politics.guns Jim Alder <...@ssnet.com

First you have to ask yourself, "the solution to WHAT?"

Murder? There is none.
Mass murder? There is none
Crime? There is none.

Because when leftist columnists speak of "solutions" then mean
"elimination of."

As long as one person remains armed, there is no "solution." Disarming
that last person is their "Final Solution."