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On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 04:13:29 -0800 (PST), MIG <...@doreenbird.co.uk
On Dec 21, 11:59 am, guy <...@googlemail.com
See changed heading above.
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On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 13:04:56 -0000, "Graculus" <...@hotmail.co.uk
"guy" <...@y1g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
Nothing new or exciting. Doesn't anyone remember the '70s and '80s when IRA
bomb (false) alarms were two a penny?
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On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 07:51:23 -0800 (PST), contrex <...@gmail.com
On 21 Dec, 13:04, "Graculus" <...@hotmail.co.ukwrote:
What exactly does it "bring home"? There wasn't any "terrorism".
Graculus, you could have edited the spelling error.
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On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 13:22:55 -0800 (PST), guy <...@googlemail.com
On 21 Dec, 13:04, "Graculus" <...@hotmail.co.ukwrote:
Yes I do, but my 8yo daughter is now terrified about getting back on
the train to come home, and also it was not a false alarm, he/they had
some sort of device - no explosives in it though
Guy
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On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 21:58:16 +0000, Charles Ellson <...@ellson.demon.co.uk
On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 13:22:55 -0800 (PST), guy
<...@googlemail.com
Some of us remember the ones which weren't false alarms such as the
one that blew a hole in the viaduct at Staples Corner (and rattled the
doors and windows at my mother's house five miles away), the one at
Euston station that I missed by ten minutes and the one that killed
another member of staff.
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On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 16:14:55 +0000, Philip Hardy <...@phardy.karoo.co.uk
Brings what home? Your paranoia?
I was on a Cross Country train between Birmingham and Sheffield
yesterday evening and the Train Manager made an announcement asking for
someone to claim a large blue holdall which has been left blocking a
door. He said that the owner should find him, and if they could describe
the contents they could have it back (but don't leave it blocking the
exits next time!). A passenger a couple of seats away from me turned to
their partner and said "Describe the contents? He must have opened it.
Why's he done that - he could have set a bomb off". It's a good thing
there were no brick walls on trains or I might have hurt my head. Why
are the Great British Public so bloody paranoid? Maybe it's just me, but
I kind of assumed that it might contain a person's possessions, probably
clothing, not explosives.
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On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 21:59:09 +0000, Peter Twydell <...@nospam.demon.co.uk
In message <...@eclipse.net.ukHardy <...@phardy.karoo.co.uk
I suppose a Train Manager is Newspeak for the person who looks after the
train with its load of (Newspeak) Customers. It used to be Guards and
Passengers. Do they have a new name for Drivers yet?
--
Peter
Ying tong iddle-i po!
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On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 06:53:22 +0000, Philip Hardy <...@phardy.karoo.co.uk
Depends on the company, but mainly, yes. National Express East Coast's
Guards can either be Customer Service Managers or Customer Operations
Leaders - this is a throwback to GNER. Some companies still use
Conductor/Senior Conductor.
No.
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On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 15:59:53 -0000, "Recliner" <...@yahoo.co.uk
"Philip Hardy" <...@eclipse.net.uk
They do on London Underground
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Anonymous Wrote:
On 21 Dec, 16:14, Philip Hardy <...@phardy.karoo.co.uk
The other passenger wasn't paranoid. Just wasn't thinking laterally.
The train manager could invite the "owner" to describe what was in the
bag... Then open the bag whilst the "owner" was present in order to
check that the description matched.
There are far more people in this country carry sharp intravenous
equipment (often for perfectly legal reasons) that could be harmful to
the unwary than anything else...
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On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 17:08:25 +0000, Guy Gorton <...@at.virgin.net
and they can be carried aboard aircraft as can the fluids used through
them - but don't take your aftershave on board!
Guy Gorton
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On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 12:00:38 -0500, "Hal Hanig" <...@charter.net.nospam
Forgive me for interfering from across the pond, but it strikes me that it's
just you. It seems only prudent, once you've had an airliner blown out of
your skies and trains on your rails shredded by explosives, that some
amongst you might exercise a bit of caution without being accused of
suffering from paranoia.
After you sent us your Richard Reid with his explosive laden shoes, we now
have to get out of our shoes and run them through an x-ray machine before
we're permitted to board an aircraft (and that even applies to the aircrew).
Whoever would have thought such a thing might be possible? Wasn't it
Shakespeare in his Henry IV who had Falstaff saying "The better part of
valour is discretion; in the which better part I have saved my life."?
Seems to me that assumptions like those you are willing to make are
precisely the kinds that will take your life prematurely one day.
Hal
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On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 10:18:10 +0000, ®i©ardo <...@nowhere.com
But don't forget that we in Britain have suffered far more terrorist
bombings than you could imagine, funded in the main by the good citizens
of the USA, than America has ever suffered at the hands of the citizens
of the UK.
*We* didn't *send* Richard Reid - he did it all on his own.
*WE* didn't have collections in pubs to fund terrorism in someone else's
country, nor did our government treat leaders of the group responsible
for the explosions in America as honoured guests, unlike the American
Government's approach.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1563119.stm
Having lived with bombs long enough, most of us just decided to get on
with our lives.
--
Moving things in still pictures!
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Anonymous Wrote:
On Dec 21, 5:00 pm, "Hal Hanig" <...@charter.net.nospam
While I can see and sympathise with your concerns, that does not make
paranoia a sensible substitute for pragmatism. The level of paranoia
displayed by our wonderful government is far, far higher than any
reaction to the various IRA attacks on this country in the 1970s and
1980s. We had to put up with much greater disruption to our daily
lives then but somehow life went on. Even in Northern Ireland, which
was much more badly affected by the IRA's antics than we were, the
authorities managed to maintain a sense of proportion.
BTW, please don't refer to "your" Richard Reid, otherwise some of us
might be tempted to remind you whose citizens were the keenest funders
of the IRA. Reid was as typical of us as Noraid was as typical of US
citizens,
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On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 07:05:13 -0500, "Hal Hanig" <...@charter.net.nospam
But then, how many of your compatriots might have still lived had they
displayed a bit of paranoia instead of resigning themselves to the
inevitability of "what will be, will be"?
Ouch....touche! In our defense, most of our nation did NOT approve of that
kind of aid once we became aware that it was going on. Although the term
had scarcely entered our lexicon in those day, the IRA was widely viewed as
a bunch of loony terrorists who gloried in violence for its own sake.
Hal
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On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 17:41:09 +0000, Philip Hardy <...@phardy.karoo.co.uk
No. Sorry.
Let's assume about 2 million people travel on the National Rail Network
each day (not sure what the exact figure is these days, but that's not
far off) and each one of them carries 1 bag with them (they're allowed
up to 3, but some will have none). That's about 7,300,000,000 bags over
10 years.
Now looking back over the last 10 years, how many of those bags
contained a bomb which blew up a train? I make it none. That doesn't
mean it can't or wont happen of course, but the odds are low.
Exceedingly low and you need to be pragmatic. Under such circumstances
if you're going to treat every single bag as if it contains a bomb,
without having any real reason to suspect that it might, then clearly
you're not taking a rational view of the situation and are just being
paranoid. And that creates fear, which is just what the people behind
11th September and The Tube bombings wanted.
Hmm. Did we? I wonder where the IRA got its money from? Thanks for your
support there.
[snip]
Philip.
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On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 14:37:24 -0800 (PST), MIG <...@doreenbird.co.uk
On Dec 21, 5:41 pm, Philip Hardy <...@phardy.karoo.co.uk
I am glad that I was not the only person to question the original
posting to be idiotic.
I am often flippant and facetious, but I try never to be abusive.
Now I am making an exception. The original posting was an idiotic
piece of meaningless gossip.
What the hell scenario are we meant to imagine? How exactly were
people moved?
"Would you mind staying where you are while we move everyone else to a
different carriage. Oh, by the way, please don't detonate your bomb
before we've driven 20 minutes to a station where you can be
arrested."
Clearly the authorities did not treat the situation as a terrorist
attack, so why is the original poster inventing one?
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On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 00:45:08 -0800 (PST), guy <...@googlemail.com
On 21 Dec, 22:37, MIG <...@doreenbird.co.uk
I will get more details for your tiny little mind later today - and
post them
What invention?
Do you deny it happend?
My daughter is now terrified of travelling by train
Oh, and thanks for reminding me why I stop using Uk.Railway last year
Guy
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On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 01:47:21 -0800 (PST), MIG <...@doreenbird.co.uk
On Dec 22, 8:45 am, guy <...@googlemail.com
An idiot caused a problem on a train. You invented the terrorism.
Because people like you hype up the threat.
I do not represent and am not representative of uk.railway.
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On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 02:28:50 -0800 (PST), guy <...@googlemail.com
On 22 Dec, 09:47, MIG <...@doreenbird.co.uk
No I did not. They had a device which appeared to be a bomb to the
guard/conductor.
I have never even mentioned it before.
Never said you did did I?
But people like you ***are*** the reason I stopped using that NG,
when, previously I had many occasions to thank others for advice and
answering my questions.
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On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 07:20:33 -0500, "Hal Hanig" <...@charter.net.nospam
Relax, my friend......'tis the season to be jolly. We'll all having a bit
of fun.....no need to introduce such provocative verbiage as "idiotic" into
the mix simply because you couldn't understand what was going on.
Hal
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On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 07:37:03 -0800 (PST), TimB <...@onetel.net
On Dec 21, 5:00 pm, "Hal Hanig" <...@charter.net.nospam
When Falstaff said that he was making excuses for running away from a
fight. ie discretion = cowardice in this case. You can't just throw
random Shakespeare quotations at us!
Tim
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On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 14:18:54 -0500, "Hal Hanig" <...@charter.net.nospam
And you can't equate running away from the possibility of being blown up by
some sort of terrorist-set explosive device with running away from a fight?
Maybe it's me, but I don't see them as being particularly different in
essence. You know how that goes.....run, run away and be sure to fight
again another day. From that POV, our mutual friend Shakespeare deserves
kudos for providing us with the most apt phrase.
That's the way I see it.
Hal
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On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 17:17:21 +0000, Roland Perry <...@perry.co.uk
In message <...@newsfe07.iadDec 2008, Hal Hanig <...@charter.net.nospam
I have often thought that if he'd really wanted to cause ongoing mayhem,
wearing explosive underwear would have been a better choice.
--
Roland Perry
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On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 19:11:40 +0000, Charles Ellson <...@ellson.demon.co.uk
On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 17:17:21 +0000, Roland Perry <...@perry.co.ukwrote:
Shush! It's awkward enough getting my boots on and off at the
airports.
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On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 20:07:49 +0000 (UTC), Nick Leverton <...@leverton.org
In article <...@perry.co.ukRoland Perry <...@perry.co.uk
One day a suicide aeroplane bomber will hide his IED where the sun don't
shine, and then let's watch these Americans do their copycat "security
theatre" routine ...
Nick
--
Serendipity: http://www.leverton.org/blosxom (last update 19th September 2008)
"The Internet, a sort of ersatz counterfeit of real life"
-- Janet Street-Porter, BBC2, 19th March 1996
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On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 07:10:53 -0500, "Hal Hanig" <...@charter.net.nospam
When the time comes that we have to bend over and spread our cheeks, you,
sir, will not be privy to the performance. Even our convicts, when required
to participate in what are termed "strip searches", normally do so in the
privacy of their cells. Can our airline travelling public be very far
behind (no pun intended)?
Hal
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On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 20:13:15 -0000, "John Sullivan" <...@ntlworld.com
"Nick Leverton" <...@leverton.org...
Please refer to them as USians. Folk from other parts of America are
infinitely more sensible and less paranoid.
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On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 20:24:08 +0000 (UTC), Nick Leverton <...@leverton.org
In article <...@newsfe10.ams2John Sullivan <...@ntlworld.com
Of course, my apologies.
Nick
--
Serendipity: http://www.leverton.org/blosxom (last update 19th September 2008)
"The Internet, a sort of ersatz counterfeit of real life"
-- Janet Street-Porter, BBC2, 19th March 1996
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On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 15:18:07 -0500, Christopher A. Lee <...@optonline.net
On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 20:13:15 -0000, "John Sullivan"
<...@ntlworld.com
Gringos? Nortemericanos? Trouble is, these probably include Canadians.
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On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 20:24:07 -0000, "John Sullivan" <...@ntlworld.com
"Christopher A. Lee" <...@4ax.com...
Inevitably, but also delightful Nicaraguans, Costa Ricans et al.
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On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 12:44:48 -0800, "Roger T." <...@highspeedplus.com
How dare you! :-)
We Canadians, like the Mexicans and other inhabitants of this continent are
"North Americans", please.
--
Merry Christmas,
Roger T.
See the GER at: -
http://www.islandnet.com/~rogertra/
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On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 12:43:05 -0800, "Roger T." <...@highspeedplus.com
That's why the correct, not just preferred name of this Continent is "North
America".
We Canadians, Mexicans, and all the other inhabitants of North America don't
like to be called "Americans" That's reserved for the USians.
--
Merry Christmas,
Roger T.
See the GER at: -
http://www.islandnet.com/~rogertra/
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On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 16:03:12 -0500, "Andrew Chaplin" <...@yourfinger.rogers.com
"Roger T." <...@grapevine.islandnet.com...
Not really. As Sir Robert Borden remarked to the Imperial War Cabinet in 1917
when another present said that the Americans would soon be in action:
"Americans have been in action for two and a half years."
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)
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On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 13:33:06 -0800, "Roger T." <...@highspeedplus.com
That was then. "North America" is currently correct. All North American
maps show our continent as North America.
Sadly, the USians have taken "America" to be their name hence we use "North
America" because we don't want to be "Americans", no matter what Americans
may think, the rest of us are quite happy we are not them. :-)
--
Merry Christmas,
Roger T.
See the GER at: -
http://www.islandnet.com/~rogertra/
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On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 07:16:25 -0500, "Hal Hanig" <...@charter.net.nospam
Just in case anyone has failed to notice, we "Americans" currently have over
12 million illegal immigrants wandering about our country that we wish were
not there. Any of you purist Americans care to take a few million of them
off our hands for the sake of intra-continental harmony?
(^v^))))))))
Hal
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On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 09:39:05 -0800, "Roger T." <...@highspeedplus.com
Sadly, that's due to two things.
One: - There's a very rich country right next to a very poor country. The
flow is south to north, you don't have the same problem from the north, do
you?
Two: - Your borders leak like a sieve.
I recall when 11/9 took place and American politicians were trying to blame
Canada for letting the bombers into the U.S.. As our politicos pointed out,
the Americans are responsible for their own border security, not Canada.
Ditto for the 12 million illegals.
--
Merry Christmas,
Roger T.
See the GER at: -
http://www.islandnet.com/~rogertra/
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On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 14:35:31 -0500, "Hal Hanig" <...@charter.net.nospam
The immigration pattern between Canada and ourselves, while it does exist,
it has largely been trouble-free. We do have Canadians, notably in the
health care professions, who prefer to work in our southern climes due more
to the more attractive offerings available south of the border than they can
find at home. It's never been a bone of contention between us AFAIK.
No one ever claimed that they weren't. Many of us are quite envious of the
way our European friends are able to keep track of their visitors, whereas
ours seem to be able to disappear from sight within 24 hours of their
arrival.
Now you're picking on the Bush administration, which many of us recognize to
be incapable of accepting responsibility for anything that happened on their
watch. We consider that to be domestic politics and would appreciate it if
you would leave the Bush-bashing to us. Nobody knows lice better than those
among us who must constantly scratch the itch.
No one ever claimed that our Canadian cousins were responsible for those
particular problems. They aren't, and we generally get along quite amicably
with them, thank you.
Hal
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On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 13:49:59 -0800, "Roger T." <...@highspeedplus.com
Statiscally speaking, very few Canadians move south. As you say, health
care is one where they do as it, believe it or not, show biz. Many famous
"American" celebrities were either born in Canada or a still Canadians but
live and work in the U.S. And hey, why not? 25,000,000 audience verse
250,000,000 audience and the paycheques are also 10 times larger. :-)
[Snip]
Yes, and I should have pointed out that my comments about leaking boarders
et al above should be directed at Dubya.
--
Merry Christmas,
Roger T.
See the GER at: -
http://www.islandnet.com/~rogertra/
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On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 22:27:56 +0000, Graeme Wall <...@greywall.demon.co.uk
In message <...@grapevine.islandnet.com "Roger T." <...@highspeedplus.com
Except that they don't necessarily have to move south, there are large studio
facilities in Vancouver and Toronto churning out material for US consumption.
If you see a modern drama set in the more obscure parts of New York or
Chicago, odds are a large chunk of it was shot in downtown Toronto. There is
a company there that maintains a fleet of New York taxis and buses for
precisely that reason. Why? Because Toronto is a ruddy sight safer, as well
as cheaper, to work in than New York.
--
Graeme Wall
This address is not read, substitute trains for rail.
Transport Miscellany at <http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail/index.html>
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On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 14:31:18 -0800, "Roger T." <...@highspeedplus.com
I know, I work in the "biz".
Same can be said for Vancouver and area. "Stargate" et al, all filmed
around Vancouver BC plus dozens and dozens of other TV show, movies,
commercials etc..
--
Merry Christmas,
Roger T.
See the GER at: -
http://www.islandnet.com/~rogertra/
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On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 14:35:16 -0800 (PST), contrex <...@gmail.com
On 21 Dec, 17:00, "Hal Hanig" <...@charter.net.nospam
Nicely put, troll boy.
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On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 07:34:34 -0500, "Hal Hanig" <...@charter.net.nospam
My comment was posted merely to provide a frame of reference for the
seemingly excessive precautions we Americans subsequently took on our side
of the pond......sorry the subtleties escaped you. I certainly didn't
realize that I was insulting all of her Majesty's subjects and would not
have done so had I thought you to be so sensitive about it. I fancied that
you could laugh at yourselves at least as much as we can laugh at
ourselves.....silly me, obviously I was mistaken.
BTW, at my age, you calling me any kind of "boy" is a compliment. Sadly,
I'm no longer eligible to be described in that fashion by any definition.
Hal
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On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 04:37:15 -0800 (PST), guy <...@googlemail.com
On 22 Dec, 12:34, "Hal Hanig" <...@charter.net.nospam
Well, at least you gave me a laugh Hal:-)
Guy
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On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 05:00:21 -0800 (PST), Rob Arndt <...@aol.com
On Dec 22, 4:37�am, guy <...@googlemail.com
Since this entire thread is OT, might I bring it back to military
aviation?
Guy, do you know if any of the rocket-firing Typhoons or Tempests ever
tried to attack any German armored trains that had flak sections?
I know these were more relevent on the eastern front, but at least
some of them operated on the western front I have been told.
Any know of any major incidents on the eastern front either- battles
between the German trains and Soviet a/c???
Rob
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On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 08:44:43 -0800 (PST), guy <...@googlemail.com
On 22 Dec, 13:00, Rob Arndt <...@aol.com
Sorry Rob, I know nothing about German armoured trains. Did they have
many in the West?
Guy
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On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 14:12:08 -0500, "Hal Hanig" <...@charter.net.nospam
Having flown troop carrier aviation during the war, I never had the
misfortune of running into them, but I have seen gun films of attacks on
such critters generally done by the P-47 Thunderbolts of the USAAC. I have
no idea how common or rare they might have been.
Hal
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On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 17:21:22 -0800 (PST), frank <...@netscape.net
On Dec 22, 7:00 am, Rob Arndt <...@aol.com
I always thought a lot of the armored trains were against partisan or
Resistance attack. not sure how well the Flak would have been on a
moving train, but beats nothing I guess.
of course a bit part of the problem is train tracks dont' move,
they're long, easy to disrupt , and you can't put a guard every
hundred feet.
Lots of guys doing modeling of Armor in US do trains, one guy did one
that was a good dozen feet long a bit more than 1/35 scale
scratchbuilt. quite a bit of coin must have gone into the real thing,
not just the 8 horse cars liberated from the French for transport.
Thinking about it, you'd think once Tac Air was let loose to take out
anything that moved before D Day, you'd think there'd be some footage
against them. I seem to find more modeling on trains than references
in the history books. Maybe Osprey will write a book on them, they
seem to have references on everything else for plastic modelers.
I smell a dissertation....
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