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Read it and weep

On Sat, 06 Jun 2009 02:27:57 +0100, Tom Crispin <...@this.bit.freeuk.com.munge

Remember this?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1088207/Health-safety-row-boy-10-barred-cycling-school.html

Here's a follow-up:

http://www.citycycling.co.uk/issue48/issue48page6.html

Ah, remember your schooldays? Summers that never ended, except for
proper winters with proper snow; music that had a tune; teacher's
strikes; and doing your cycling proficiency then struggling to find a
parking space in the bike shed. Glorious. Kids these days, you tell
them that, and they won't believe you.

Well to be honest, Sam O'Shea has got a few perfect reasons not to
believe you, having been effectively banned from riding to St Paul's
School in Portsmouth. Sound strange? It did to us here at citycycling
Towers as well when we first covered the story in our news stories in
issue 42. And when Sam's parents got in touch with us following the
latest round with his school’s governors we were even more confused
with what was going on.

The crux of the matter is this. Sam wants to cycle to school; his
parents want him to cycle to school; the governors (and in particular
Mrs Lynch, the head Governor) had stated that the road outside the
school was too dangerous (but they would reconsider this once it had
been converted to one-way), that the entrance ramp to the school yard
was too narrow, and that there was nowhere to store bikes.

Therefore bikes were not allowed onto school grounds, which operated
as an insurmountable barrier to Sam cycling.

This has snowballed from a very basic initial enquiry by Angela
O'Shea, Sam's mother, "When he was in year 5 and was completing a
school survey about travelling to school he asked his teacher if he
could cycle to school. His teacher said that he could when he had
passed his cycle proficiency test. When he said he had already he was
told that he had to do course run by the school for year 6 students.

So in September 2008 when he started year 6 I popped into the school
to get the matter straightened out, thinking it would be a formality
when they found out that he had already passed his CPT but was told
that he could cycle to school but I would have to come with him in the
car to take his bike home, then bring it back in the evening as there
was no where onsite for the storage of bikes."

Yes, you read that correctly. Sam was to be the David Cameron of the
cycling to school world, being followed everywhere by his mother in a
car. And you may have spotted another little snippet that Angela
mentioned, the school operates a cycling proficiency scheme.

We simply had to know how on earth that operated.

"For the duration of the course they [can] take their bikes to and
from school daily or leave them on-site. All of the reasons why Sam
cannot cycle to school did not matter for the children of 2 whole
classes (up to 60 children) ie they could store them on-site, they
could cycle to and from school on a very busy 2-way road, enter the
school via the very narrow gate going up and down the ramp."

So what happens when they pass the course?

"All of a sudden the road is a death trap, there is no storage, the
entrance too narrow, the ramp is dangerous".

Have we just entered some parallel universe where logic is frowned
upon? Actually, since all of this started the area has apparently got
even more perilous for cyclists, with the school now laying claim to,
"a car park down the road which is dangerous and an industrial area (2
garages) round the corner."

So what could be done about all of these dangers and barriers to
cycling? Quite a lot it would seem.

Looking at the road itself first. There had been campaigns for 7 years
to make the road outside the school one-way, but within 4 months the
O'Shea's campaign had succeeded in making this a reality.

The road is still busy, the school commenting without irony that this
is especially the case at the start and end of the school day, but for
the most part it is at a standstill. The car park and 'industrial
area' that were mentioned tie in with the road, but in the midst of
everything someone, it's not clear whether it was the governors or the
school, commissioned a risk assessment.

It concluded that there were risks, but that all were easily and
practically mitigated.

"The risk assessment recommended that the cyclists dismount and walk
their bikes along Bourne Road so I could not believe it when Mrs Lynch
said that he could not bring his bike onto the school site because of
the car park and the industrial site. The cyclists will be on the
pavement at this stage of the journey so if it is unsafe for cyclists
then surely it must be unsafe for pedestrians?"

We've seen the risk assessment, and even if the 'dangerous' road was
taken in isolation the continued 'no cycling' stance of the school in
light of its findings is frankly barmy.

But the 'dangerous' road is not the matter in isolation, so what of
the narrow entrance? Fair point, the entrance is narrow, what could
possibly be done? Well how about opening up another gate to the school
which is, at the moment, permanently locked?

Push your jaw back up, yes, there is another entrance which is
currently not used for anything. Of course once through that entrance
there still remains that problem of no bike storage. Except there is.

"When I was told there was no where to store bikes I asked what about
the cycle cover just inside the school gate, I was told that it used
to be a cycle storage but there was nothing to lock bikes to so that
could not be used. I contacted Portsmouth City Council who offered 2
bike stowages to the school, not only that they said they would supply
and fit them free of charge." The school response? They turned down
the offer.

So let's just look at that again. The school says that the road is too
dangerous despite a risk assessment that concludes that it is not with
the correct mitigation put in place; the entrance way is too narrow,
despite there being another unused entrance to the school; and that
there is nowhere to store the bikes despite there being an existing
bike shed and the offer of free fully-installed bike racks.

And this is like Christmas, there's more believe it or not.

St Paul's is a designated 'Healthy School'. It also seems it's a
caring school, "We were told by Mrs Schouller [the Head Teacher] that
'we are a Catholic School so we care how our children get to and from
school'." So other types of school don't care?

Cyclists seem to be seen as some sort of invasion force, "The minutes
of the Governors meeting back in September 2008 said they were
'worried about the numbers of children wanting to cycle increasing'."
Don't want too many cyclists meaning the road outside the school is a
bit quieter do we?

There is a school travel plan in place, and a whopping 52% of pupils
travel to school by car. That same travel plan contains the figure of
41% who actually want to cycle to school. So you would think that
somewhere the O'Shea's might find someone with the will to help?

It seems not, not even from Safer Routes to School. "I have worked
closely with the Safer Routes to School Dept of Portsmouth City
Council. When the final decision came through I spoke with Michelle
Love and sent her a copy of the letter from the Head of Governors
telling us of their decision, she said they were stunned by the
decision and needed to think about what to do next.

I was told this week by Amber Kerens-Bathmaker (the team leader) that
they can only respect the decision made by the school governors and
concentrate on Walk to School on Wednesdays and persuading children to
get the school bus! Incredibly she said she had not spoken with the
school about their decision and didn't know their reasons, she had not
seen the copy of the letter I sent to her team, did not know the
reasons behind the school's decision but said they had to respect
their decision?"

This is giving us a headache just trying to work out how on earth
anyone can justify the ongoing 'ban'.

And really this is about more than just one boy's desire to ride to
school. Angela sums it up perfectly, with words that we will leave you
with, "If we take our children to and from school in the car every day
then we are not preparing them for the rest of their lives, they have
to be able to make road safety decisions independently - we cannot
wrap them up in cotton wool for the rest of their lives."

We will be offering the school the right to reply to this piece, and
so hope to have more in next month's issue. But in the meantime, if
you're as confused and annoyed by what seems to be a total abdication
of logic, then get in touch with the local paper, Portsmouth City
Council, and the school itself, to try and get to the bottom of the
matter.

In the meantime Sam, enjoy your summer holidays where you can cycle
unfettered.



On Fri, 05 Jun 2009 22:05:14 -0500, "Mr. Benn" <...@%%.%

Tom Crispin <...@4ax.com:

It does seem pretty daft. Why does the school think it has a
responsibility for the safety of cyclists outside of the school?

On Sat, 06 Jun 2009 16:19:50 +0100, David Hansen <...@spidacom.co.uk

On Sat, 06 Jun 2009 02:27:57 +0100 someone who may be Tom Crispin
<...@this.bit.freeuk.com.munge

The lad has learnt an important lesson, one of the more important
bits of education. Some grown-ups are cretins and one should not
think that all of them are right.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On Sat, 6 Jun 2009 09:07:53 -0700 (PDT), Nuxx Bar <...@hotmail.com

On Jun 6, 10:49 am, "mileburner" <...@btinternet.com
What do you expect when you post on uk.rec.driving as a car-hater?

On Tue, 9 Jun 2009 10:59:04 +0100, "Budstaff" <...@btinternet.com

"Nuxx Bar" <...@c9g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...

Stunning lack of irony or self-awareness as usual, coming from someone whose
mission in life is to post on u.r.c as a cyclist-hater...


On Tue, 9 Jun 2009 11:57:27 +0100, "mileburner" <...@btinternet.com

"Budstaff" <...@bt.com...

...who accuses cyclists of being car-haters. There seems to be this
assumption that because somone enjoys cycling, or merely chooses cycling
above other modes of transport for some of their journeys that they must
therefore hate cars. This is a truly bizarre assumption to make. I guess it
is a form of narrow mindedness. It would be similar to saying that drivers
are cycle-haters. As a driver, I quite like cycles. So why can't I be a
cyclist who likes cars?


On 09 Jun 2009 16:28:54 +0100 (BST), David Damerell <...@chiark.greenend.org.uk

Quoting mileburner <...@btinternet.com
Cyclists _with cars_, no less. _I_ hate cars. Why doesn't Nuxxy ring me up
at 3am? (Cambridge 358966).
--
David Damerell <...@chiark.greenend.org.ukToday is First Gouday, June.

On Wed, 10 Jun 2009 10:36:12 +0100, "Dave Larrington" <...@privacy.net

In news...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk,
David Damerell <...@chiark.greenend.org.ukto tell us:

He ate the D to Z pages of his phone book once his carpet had been chewed
beyond economic repair, is my guess.

--
Dave Larrington
<http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.ukLife - loathe it or ignore it, you can't like it.


On Sat, 6 Jun 2009 04:07:43 +0100, "mileburner" <...@btinternet.com

"Tom Crispin" <...@4ax.com...

So lets get this straight. He can't ride to school because there is nowhere
to store the bike. The council have offered to provide storage free of
charge but the school have rejected the offer. He can't ride to school
because the road is too dangerous, but he cannot walk with his bike either.
He can't ride to school because the gate is too small for bikes, but there
is another gate which remains locked. But during safer cycling week 60 or so
pupils in year 6 can ride bring their bikes to school store them there all
day and once completed the training can't ride to school.

And oh the irony, how the school claim that the road is very busy with cars
at the start and end of the school day. Why would that be I wonder?


On Sat, 06 Jun 2009 09:44:30 +0100, "Just zis Guy, you know?" <...@spamcop.net

On Sat, 6 Jun 2009 04:07:43 +0100, "mileburner"
<...@btinternet.com

When I was a school governor I heard this kind of mental gymnastics
(from the former head teacher IIRC, but I could be wrong about that).
I simply told her that if the child in question was not allowed to
bring the bike on site then it would be placed in the adjacent
churchyard with the full permission of the PCC, and that the school
had no evident right to dictate what mode of transport any particular
parent or child chose to use. Collapse of stout party.

It did help that I was the governor responsible for the school travel
policy, and also that I was on the PCC of the adjacent church. And of
course it was my child.

Guy
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk/urc | http://www.nohelmetlaw.org.uk/

"To every complex problem there is a solution which is
simple, neat and wrong" - HL Mencken

Newsgroup may contain nuts.

On 06 Jun 2009 09:56:13 GMT, Ian Smith <...@astounding.org.uk

On Sat, 6 Jun 2009 04:07:43 +0100, mileburner <...@btinternet.com
Not quite. There is already a bike shed, but the school says it's not
good enough, and the council have offered to replace it free of
charge, which has been rejected.

You missed the bit about how it's a designated "healthy school".

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|

On Sat, 6 Jun 2009 03:13:46 -0700 (PDT), tim <...@sky.com

Looking at google maps

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&q=St+Paul%27s+Primary+School++Ports mouth.&fb=1&split=1&gl=uk&cid=0,0,10610132602978119042&ei=5TkqSpPyCMWgjAeniYjeCg &ll=50.849256,-1.095908&spn=0.001025,0.002822&t=h&z=19

how do they get the cars into the main playground area ?

and isn't there a decent entrance / link to the playing fields from
the path from the big carpark area next to the ?church?.


On Sat, 06 Jun 2009 14:41:27 GMT, Alex Potter <...@ap-consulting.co.uk

tim wrote on Sat, 06 Jun 2009 03:13:46 -0700:

Looks like a daft place for the planners to have put a school...

--
Alex
Death is just God's way of dropping carrier.

On Sat, 6 Jun 2009 08:02:34 -0700 (PDT), spindrift <...@hotmail.com

The solution's simple, just get the parents to driver their children
to school in Sherman tanks, thus making the roads too dangerous for
cars.


On Sat, 06 Jun 2009 06:22:30 +0100, Tom Crispin <...@this.bit.freeuk.com.munge

On Sat, 6 Jun 2009 04:07:43 +0100, "mileburner"
<...@btinternet.com

No. You have got it completely wrong.

He cannot cycle to school because the Chair of Governors is anti
cycling.

>

On Fri, 5 Jun 2009 23:16:12 -0700 (PDT), Doug <...@riseup.net

On 6 June, 06:22, Tom Crispin <...@this.bit.freeuk.com.mungewrote:
Or, the vast majority of teachers and governors are motorists who are
only too well aware of the serious dangers they pose to children when
driving.

--
World Carfree Network
http://www.worldcarfree.net/
Help for your car-addicted friends in the U.K.

On Sat, 6 Jun 2009 09:34:50 +0100, "mileburner" <...@btinternet.com

Interesting point. Also the parents pose a danger to children too. My 9yo
was talking to a friend of hers who cycles to school too. Her friend had
been forbidden to ride on the road (by her parents) and has been told to
cycle on the footpath instead. My daughter on the other hand is not allowed
to ride on the footpath (except for shared footpath/cycle farcilities).
Going by the standard of many parents driving, I am not surprised that many
parents also think the roads are not safe for cyclists (especially
children).

It says a lot about somones standard of driving when they claim that the
roads are not safe enough to cycle on.


On Sat, 06 Jun 2009 14:02:02 +0100, Gwyn <...@gwyn-oakley.org.uk

In message <...@news.eternal-september.org "mileburner" <...@btinternet.com

Looking at this tragedy all schools should be doing there utmost to stop
parents taking their children toschool in a car

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article6440764.ece

Gwyn

--
Gwyn k

On Mon, 08 Jun 2009 17:03:12 +0100, Mark <...@dontgetlotsofspamanymore.net

On Sat, 06 Jun 2009 06:22:30 +0100, Tom Crispin
<...@this.bit.freeuk.com.munge

I hope the affected parent(s) run for places on the governing body so
that their policy can be changed.

All the schools I am involved with are actively promoting better ways
of getting to school.

--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Owing to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking most articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.

On Sat, 6 Jun 2009 09:24:13 +0100, "mileburner" <...@btinternet.com

"Tom Crispin" <...@4ax.com...

Anti-cycling? How can anyone be anti-cycling? Cycling benefits everyone. It
makes the roads safer, eases congestion, reduces pollution. It is the
privately owned car which is the problem, especially outside schools at
8.45am.


On Sat, 6 Jun 2009 10:34:58 +0100, "Adam Lea" <...@yahoo.co.uk

uk.transport/uk.rec driving residents may be able to help you with that one
:-)


On Sat, 6 Jun 2009 10:49:03 +0100, "mileburner" <...@btinternet.com

"Adam Lea" <...@bt.com...

I have always found the residents of those groups particularly unhelpful :-(


On Sat, 6 Jun 2009 10:50:16 +0000 (UTC), Alistair Gunn <...@yahoo.com

Tom Crispin twisted the electrons to say:

Actually I wonder if a good protest by the parents of the 41% of pupils
that want to cycle to school would be to do what said chair wants? ie:
child cycles to school, whilst parents drive there and wait? Congestion
will, of course, be *much* worse as the parents will be waiting outside
for longer ... Make sure the local press are onboard, and report the
"Increased congestion caused by school's anti-cycling policy"!

Pity there's nowhere nearby that could offer cycle storage instead ...
--
These opinions might not even be mine ...
Let alone connected with my employer ...

On Sat, 6 Jun 2009 14:18:21 +0100, Rob Morley <...@ntlworld.com

On Sat, 6 Jun 2009 10:50:16 +0000 (UTC)
Alistair Gunn <...@yahoo.com

Like the garages just around the corner?

On Sat, 06 Jun 2009 15:06:52 +0100, Marc <...@btintenret.com

Why should they? As fas as I can see the school causes them nothing but
problems. It causes congestion , has foisted a one way system on them,
and every time they want a planning permission there will be a "please
dog think of the children" outcry

On Sat, 6 Jun 2009 15:29:09 +0100, Rob Morley <...@ntlworld.com

On Sat, 06 Jun 2009 15:06:52 +0100
Marc <...@btintenret.com

If they have space for it then why not? Not everyone feels a need to
be a curmudgeon.

On Sat, 06 Jun 2009 15:33:58 +0100, Marc <...@btintenret.com

Errr, for the possible reasons that you snipped?

Not everyone feels a need to
Not everyone thinks that their benefit should be sacrificed on the altar
of other peoples children, at their cost.

On Sat, 6 Jun 2009 10:11:22 -0700 (PDT), John Kane <...@gmail.com

On Jun 6, 6:50 am, Alistair Gunn <...@yahoo.com
How easy is it to get elected/appointed to the Board?

On Sun, 7 Jun 2009 19:22:13 +0100, chris French <...@familyfrench.co.uk

In message
<...@x6g2000vbg.googlegroups.comKane <...@gmail.com
Pretty easy I imagine - lots of schools find it hard to find and keep
enough governors
--
Chris French

On Sun, 7 Jun 2009 20:47:15 +0100, "Nigel Cliffe" <...@2mm.org.uk

Not overly surprising if you read the legal liabilities on an amateur
volunteer governer.

- Nigel

--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/


On Sun, 07 Jun 2009 21:20:45 +0100, Peter Grange <...@plgrange.demon.co.uk

On Sun, 7 Jun 2009 20:47:15 +0100, "Nigel Cliffe" <...@2mm.org.ukwrote:

There was a programme on R4 last Monday about school governors. It's
called Governors Needed, Episode 1 was about State Schools. It's on
Listen Again until tomorrow (Mon) 11:32. Interesting comments, like
how local authorities don't really spell out how difficult a job it
can be because that reduces the number of volunteers. I believe
tomorrow's episode is about Private Schools.

--

Pete

On Tue, 09 Jun 2009 00:42:38 +0100, Peter Grange <...@plgrange.demon.co.uk

On Sun, 07 Jun 2009 21:20:45 +0100, Peter Grange
<...@plgrange.demon.co.uk
Well, it _was_ posted on Sunday, looks like Demon's news server took
the weekend off, stuff I posted elsewhere on Friday just appeared too.

On Mon, 08 Jun 2009 17:05:41 +0100, Mark <...@dontgetlotsofspamanymore.net

On Sun, 7 Jun 2009 20:47:15 +0100, "Nigel Cliffe" <...@2mm.org.ukwrote:

It's not that onerous IMHO.

--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Owing to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking most articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.

On Mon, 08 Jun 2009 18:45:24 +0100, "Just zis Guy, you know?" <...@spamcop.net

On Mon, 08 Jun 2009 17:05:41 +0100, Mark
<...@dontgetlotsofspamanymore.net

Depends on whether it's a foundation school or not, I think. I was a
governor of a foundation school until about 3 years ago and the
responsibilities became pretty daunting during the time I was there.
In a good way, though. I'd certainly recommend it to anyone who has
the time and talents needed - but don't go in to soapbox a single
issue, it won't really work, you have to be completely behind the
whole programme of the governing body.

Guy
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk/urc | http://www.nohelmetlaw.org.uk/
"To every complex problem there is a solution which is
simple, neat and wrong" - HL Mencken
Newsgroup may contain nuts.

On Tue, 09 Jun 2009 09:30:40 +0100, Mark <...@dontgetlotsofspamanymore.net

On Mon, 08 Jun 2009 18:45:24 +0100, "Just zis Guy, you know?"
<...@spamcop.net

I'm currently a governor of two foundation schools. I used to be
Chair of Governors of one. It is a lot of work, but very rewarding
IMHO. I am fortunate in that both schools are very successful. I'm
sure being a governor of a failing school would be a lot more
difficult.

--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Owing to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking most articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.

On Tue, 09 Jun 2009 10:08:17 +0100, Keitht <KeithT

Sorry to be a bit late coming in on this one.
School governors are unpaid, not really trained and are (theoretically)
where the buck stops at school.
Should the school (not the borough) be sued sucessfully it's the
governors who are legally liable.
Should the staff go out on unofficial strike, it's the governors who are
threatened with prosecution by HMGov. (got the letters from when the
Tories tried it)
Should anything happen like a child dying at school, it's the governors
who are supposed to be on top of it all.
Governors are supposed to act as 'critical friends' where, in too many
schools the 'friend' bit seems to have been forgotten.
It's the governors who are often prone to adhering to the SATS results
and do the knee-jerk thing of sacking the head as a sacrificial lamb
(well, mutton more like it).

A good governing body works with the entire staff, does not get in the
way and does not try and run the day to day stuff in school.
They also go in to the school and keep quiet in class as observers, not
participants, unless asked.

They are there, hopefully, to monitor how the school is running, work
out (with the head) where larger amounts of money should be spent.
They have to ratify the budget and policies and other stuff - it's the
names of the governors on a lot of signed stuff, not the head.

They also encourage cycling to school and advise on things like what
cycle racks are preferable, where to site them, encourage the staff to
get bikes on the tax-free scheme but also sympathise that some have so
much crap they have to carry that it may be difficult to use a bike and
a car may be the most practical solution.

Our school has a temporary set of wheel-benders to park bikes, it is
covered by CCTV, it's at the front of the school and is also used for
parking little scooters (push along things). The staff with bikes park
them round the back as they will still be at school after the front
gates are locked.
Any child passing the cycle proficiency test or showing they are
competant (rides with parents etc. etc.) can bring thier bike to school.

Governors should also attend all meetings or they'll end up as
vice-chair ;-)
(bugger)
--

Come to Dave & Boris - your cycle security experts.

On Tue, 09 Jun 2009 10:35:17 +0100, Mark <...@dontgetlotsofspamanymore.net

On Tue, 09 Jun 2009 10:08:17 +0100, Keitht <KeithT

Governors should receive training. The LA will normally provide this
IME.

The governing body is liable but individual governors are not
personally liable.

NIME.

I attended almost all the meetings and ended up as Chair ;-)

--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Owing to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking most articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.

On Tue, 09 Jun 2009 10:26:59 +0100, Paul Rudin <...@rudin.co.uk

Keitht <KeithT

There is a programme of governor training, although you can't in general
compel governors to attend. Many governors do however attend some of the
training courses.

The governors are not liable as individuals (except in extreme
situations like fraud). If the school is sucessfully sued then it's the
school that's liable.

It's much like the situation with the directors of a company in that
respect. If you sue a company sucessfully then the company is liable,
not the directors as individuals. There are circumstances in which the
directors can be personally liable - but that's basically where they've
acted fraudulently.

On Tue, 09 Jun 2009 12:37:11 +0100, Keitht <KeithT

IME most training is a bunch of powerpoint slides,occasionally the
governors arrange for people to come in to the school but it's usually
subject-oriented rather than school governance. If the powers-that-be in
thier magnificence would stop farting around and changing names of
things (but not the overall content) we wouldn't need much of the
training as it's just to learn the new words for the old ways. "Didn't
we used to . . . a few years ago"

It's rare but it's there.
It's a possibility, though if the governors have done thier work
properly and followed the theoretical blame-trail (sorry, due diligence)
they should have their collective arses covered.

Not much chance of that in our school, money doesn't hang around long
enough to get abused. That and the constant battle to keep some back for
unforseen moments.

Dragging it back on topic - we've got three teachers who cycle to
school, one has used the free training from the borough and I'm gently
hassling the other two. As yet the two who haven't exhibit the usual
signs of hesitant cyclists. Motorists have no idea where they might be
going as the body language is sort of apologetic and unsure. Having
driven behind and observed I couldn't work out whether they were going
to turn right or left at a mini-roundabout, nor could anyone else who
was behind them or overtaking. As it was, they kept to the left and
moved to the right at the last minute - very dodgy as it looked as if
they were turning left but drivers held back rather than get impatient.

--

Come to Dave & Boris - your cycle security experts.

On Tue, 09 Jun 2009 18:08:28 +0100, Tom Crispin <...@this.bit.freeuk.com.munge

On Tue, 09 Jun 2009 10:08:17 +0100, Keitht <KeithT
I am a teacher governor.

Training is offered.

Rare.

Unlikely to be liable.

Yes.

Yes, many come in with a single agenda.

Never heard of that.

Yes.

The best visit I have had from a fellow governor was when she came in
and worked as my teaching assistant.

Yes.

Yes.

This is not a governors' role, though governors may like to be
involved.

I do not know if teacher governors can be vice chair. There are
certain discussions from which I am excluded from meetings, and I
expect a vice chair would have to attend.

On Wed, 10 Jun 2009 11:14:08 +0100, Mark <...@dontgetlotsofspamanymore.net

On Tue, 09 Jun 2009 18:08:28 +0100, Tom Crispin
<...@this.bit.freeuk.com.munge

Staff governors are not allowed to be chair or vice chair (see GGTTL).

--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Owing to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking most articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.

On Sat, 06 Jun 2009 13:40:55 +0100, Judith M Smith <...@live.co.uk

On Sat, 06 Jun 2009 02:27:57 +0100, Tom Crispin
<...@this.bit.freeuk.com.munge

I think they should let him cycle to school.

Daily Mail:

Ten year old killed on his way to school

A ten year old was killed when he was knocked off his bike on his 2
mile journey to school on roads which had already been described as
too dangerous for child cyclists.

It is a pity that the school had not prohibited their pupils from
riding to school given the misgivings which had been raised about the
safety of ten year olds cycling on these dangerous roads.

The Mail hopes the Head has this death on her conscience for the rest
of her life.

--

Passenger casualty rates by mode Per billion passenger kilometers:
Killed or seriously injured:
Pedal Cyclists : 533 Pedestrians : 384
All casualties:
Pedal Cyclists : 3739 Pedestrians : 1795

Which do you think is the most dangerous?

On Mon, 08 Jun 2009 10:44:12 +0100, Keitht <KeithT

Described as 'dangerous' by which authority?

The bloke in the pub?

--

Come to Dave & Boris - your cycle security experts.

On Mon, 08 Jun 2009 13:59:17 +0100, Judith M Smith <...@live.co.uk

On Mon, 08 Jun 2009 10:44:12 +0100, Keitht <KeithT

Teachers and Governors of the school - you know local people who will
have observed the road and traffic conditions and have no axe to
grind.

Sensible people - using common sense.

--
Someone calling himself Lou Knee made a post in urc
referring to another poster as "a piece of shit".
The post was made from an IP address which had been used in urc over the last 6 years
uniquely by Guy Chapman.
All available evidence points to Lou Knee being a nym shift of Guy Chapman.
A respected poster to URC, JNugent, has categorically asked Guy Chapman if he has ever posted using the name Lou Knee.
Guy Chapman has refused to answer this question.
Conclusion: Guy Chapman and Lou Knee are one and the same despicable person.

On Mon, 8 Jun 2009 09:39:41 -0700 (PDT), John Kane <...@gmail.com

On Jun 8, 8:59 am, Judith M Smith <...@live.co.uk
And as someone has said,"Your common sense should be taken away and
locked up where it won't harm you".

On Mon, 8 Jun 2009 03:32:56 -0700 (PDT), "Just zis Guy, you know?" <...@SPAMCOP.NET

On Jun 8, 10:44 am, Keitht <KeithT

Probably the people who were making it dangerous in the first place.
That's how it usually goes, the root of such protesting statements has
always seemed to me to be that the parents in their cars don't want to
have to take the extra care that would be required if meaningful
numbers of children were going to and from school independently (on
foot or by bicycle).

This is all discussed in One False Move, which is a very interesting
book that should be made compulsory reading for all school teachers
and governors.

<http://www.psi.org.uk/publications/ENVIRON/onefm.htm--
Guy

On Mon, 08 Jun 2009 12:12:42 +0100, Chris Gerhard <...@thegerhards.com

Which appears to be out of print. However the pdf is available here:
http://john-adams.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/one%20false%20move.pdf

--chris

On Mon, 08 Jun 2009 07:24:04 -0500, Andy Leighton <...@azaal.plus.com

On Mon, 8 Jun 2009 03:32:56 -0700 (PDT),
Just zis Guy, you know? <...@SPAMCOP.NET
True.

But also a single report of a death of a child cycling to school means
absolutely nothing on a general level (although a great deal to the
family involved). Children die when going to and from school using
every mode of transport - walking, bike, bus and car. Cherry-picking
one mode (or even one death as in this case) in order to make a decision
about acceptable modes of transport to school seems to be a terribly
poor decision-making process.

--
Andy Leighton ="The Lord is my shepherd, but we still lost the sheep dog trials"
- Robert Rankin, _They Came And Ate Us_

On Mon, 08 Jun 2009 18:48:27 +0100, "Just zis Guy, you know?" <...@spamcop.net

On Mon, 08 Jun 2009 07:24:04 -0500, Andy Leighton
<...@azaal.plus.com

I completely agree, it's the fallacy of misleading vividness. I have
tried to help my children to be reasonably independent and to maintain
a properly informed view of the risks they face, but it doesn't make
it any less terrifying if they are late home. If you can't deal with
that then I guess you become the sort of parent who runs a taxi
service for their kids and then finds they go off the rails as soon as
they arrive at university and are no longer under 24/7 scrutiny. And
yes I know that is a dollop of self-justification.

Guy
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk/urc | http://www.nohelmetlaw.org.uk/
"To every complex problem there is a solution which is
simple, neat and wrong" - HL Mencken
Newsgroup may contain nuts.

On Wed, 10 Jun 2009 20:45:08 +0100, Judith M Smith <...@live.co.uk

On Mon, 08 Jun 2009 18:48:27 +0100, "Just zis Guy, you know?"
<...@spamcop.net

Do you advise them to wear cycle helmets?

Surely that is not very good if you feel that a helmet is likely to do
more harm than good?

--
Someone calling himself Lou Knee made a post in urc
referring to another poster as "a piece of shit".
The post was made from an IP address which had been used in urc over the last 6 years
uniquely by Guy Chapman.
All available evidence points to Lou Knee being a nym shift of Guy Chapman.
A respected poster to URC, JNugent, has categorically asked Guy Chapman if he has ever posted using the name Lou Knee.
Guy Chapman has refused to answer this question.
Conclusion: Guy Chapman and Lou Knee are one and the same despicable person.

Discussion Title: Read it and weep
Title Keywords: Read  weep