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The baddest home aquarium ive ever seen - JREF Forum

By rare I mean no others on the planet any marine science gurus in here?

These are interesting if you have an eye for special fish tanks.

Since I'm new I can't link, but you can copy and paste this into youtube for the coolest vid Globe Ecosystem link#1 tell me if you liked it as much as I did

The reasons these belong in a science forum is not because of the novelty, it's the biology involved in the design...first and foremost they are producing, not just keeping, live scleractinian coral in a container that removes the exclusivity of modern coral aquarium designs ($).

Buy a 1000 dollar tank, or buy a small cube, same outcome basically. Of course a large tank looks better, but I assure you there is another way to grow your own tabletop acropora and its also very intersting because there is no literature on the subject, anywhere, except for web boards.

So this may be small but it's cutting edge, master reef keepers almost refuse to believe these aren't photoshopped. If anyone has experience in marine animal husbandry I'd like to hear your thoughts.

Some higher level applications for these vessels is as the video shows for public viewing and transport to universities for study, they can be deployed in fringing localities before predicted natural disasters to house coral until it can be replanted in the ocean, and it expands the ability for mankind to produce coral *drastically* because a two page manual provides total care instructions.

No longer are reef tanks the exclusive domain of the techies, this has both good and bad implications I can imagine... zone

My wife and I built and ran a home designed nanotank for a few years.

It's not so hard nowadays with the current technologies for lighting and maintaining temperature as well as the good quality artificial salts.

No its not too bad now with all the literature, but the current nano reef movement does not practice sealing at all so its still a constant flux that challenges the tank, and I don't know of any that practice evaporation restriction.

All current design is based around topoff because most nano designs are miniatures of the current method and this links the chemistry of the two sizes in a way that would not be if evaporation did not occur.

Typically, nano reefs are kept after someone has tried a larger one so this is still somewhat exclusive and not really helpful to the average person if they wanted to start saltwater husbandry. So another unique angle of the above tanks is they are the first saltwater tanks designed to not evaporate. When you restrict evaporation altogether you change a reef drastically, but it becomes very simple as well.

You must employ ways to manage the redox and in the video I was trying to show two current methods, airstone throughput and then in this tank above photosynthetic capture/O2 ventilation ever seen an 8 inch SPS reef before that was years old with a vid? youtube.com/watch?v=_XOsitYhihc

Bonsai aquariums? Those Japanese shrink of everything.

Doh ! i cant formulate a response to that even with a 20 minute lag prep time sad... these pics are of aged vases and orbs as well just to show the biodiversity

That's pretty cool.

How is the water kept "right"?

Do you test it all the time, like in a regular marine tank?

I don't ever test for anything here's why... the system was tested in the early 2000's for nitrate accumulation times, calcium and alk/pH variances and as long as you don't crowd the tank with higher organisms and feed carefully around planned water changes, so the sandbed won't get nutrient sinked, it will theoretically run forever barring hardware failures. This one is about 5 years or so and one i had before lived to three and then was overheated on a summer day when my central ac went out

Some of the particular physical science is what ive worked hard to make predictive, and the dosing schedule/phytoplankton loading works like this: mornings before lights on, carbon dioxide (carbonic acid) is at its highest and the water is most receptive to high pH additives.

In the afternoon, the same additive will strip all live flesh in a pico reef this small because carbon is in short supply having been sequestered in photosynthesis, making the pH the highest of the cycle so this is when you sit back and enjoy the tank with no dosing.

The dosing is C balance additive, 1/8th capfull parts a and b, alternating mornings for each additive, about twice per week then full water change on weekends. The nutrient loading in absence of a skimmer is accomplished by feeding high quality frozen foods in abundance, letting it swirl for a day, then changing water before it rots.

This feeds every animal including microbenthic fauna, and the reef lives as a tiny globe. I like to help others replicate the setup so that I can be tied to its generation, I don't want someone to grab it and try to market it claiming they did the pioneer work on pico reefs, that'd be stealin.

Im claimin the title of inventor of pico reefs through my heinous web marketing unless someone would like to find and post proof of earlier ones, years old, and this small. These systems have taken complex reef science and made it into a system anyone can replicate.

The variables don't shift, because you don't have unknown animals dying in your rockwork.

When every polyp can be visually seen and verified, and each shrimp is still alive, all the chemistry will line up.

When in doubt, change water. So for the vase one you just get a reef light, a xlarge glass vase from wal mart, correct sand, live rock and an airstone and go to town.

It will grow any coral you can physically fit into it, I currently keep over twenty genera inside the one in my living room. Globe Ecosystem on youtube, link one again b

Cool to see you in this site man.

Its wierd that Im from new mexico too, been to your town, I lived in Playas, animas lordsburg territory for a long long time.

Those mountains were my stomping ground cut some teeth in the desert man nice to meet a fellow nmx

How much does one of these cost to set up and maintain?

Assuming that the person doing so is starting from scratch as far as knowledge and equipment is concerned.

Originally Posted by el zone cool to see you in this site man.

Its wierd that Im from new mexico too, been to your town, I lived in Playas, animas lordsburg territory for a long long time.

Those mountains were my stomping ground cut some teeth in the desert man nice to meet a fellow nmx Nice to see you too, and glad to know you are working on this!

I think it's awesome. My father was a marine biologist but they used systems that actually pumped live seawater through their aquariums.

(This was in GA, Sapello Island facility where he was working with mollusks.) I've got a fresh water tank, 55 gallon, but would love to do a marine tank.

I'll be watching your work with much interest!

Thanks for sharing!

My tank is currently down do to renovation - I have a 180g tank built in the wall between my office and the living room. I can CATAGORICALLY with 100% certainty tell you that there is NO WAY that those acros are kept or grown in those nano tanks. 1] the light requirements of any one of the SPS and LPSs shown in those tanks CAN NOT be achieved with lights available on the market that would not also take the water temp to such a level that the corals would cook.

Not to mention the algae blooms! 2] THE biggest issue with SPS especially is water movement.

In my 180 tank I have a main pump that circulated about 3800 g/h my skimmer - yes I use live rock and have experimented with algae scrubbers, but if you keep fish as well as corals you need a skimmer - does another 600 g/h and I have 4 tunzes that move about 4000g/h for internal water circ.

And this is on the LOW end because I mostly like LPS and softies not som much SPS. I have friends who move upwards of 10,000 g/h in 200g tanks.

The little submersible pump they show in the drawing is what reefers use when we go to meetings and stuff to trade frags. Unfortunately this is a common scam you see in unscrupulous reef stores.

Where the shop keeper sets up little tanks like this on the counter to sucker in people who haven't done the research on what is really required to keep, grow corals for the long term. This is not to say the Nano tanks (generally less than 20G) are no possible!

They are but only if you have the backup tanks, equipment and filter system to support it and you are willing to do large if not complete water changes on a daily basis etc.

And even then it's generally NOT recommended that you do this with SPS because the success rate by people who have been in reef keeping for decades is very small.

The cost is the worst part, but its the cheapest way to grow coral that's possible.

So here it is I do not recommend the square one for a beginner as it's tougher to build.

The vase one is the way to go if you are ready to start.

I went to wal mart and bought a 2 gallon decorative glass vase.

Caribsea live sand is wet, prepackaged and clean so I filled 1/4 of the vase with live sand.

Hang an air bubbler, and oversized pump to really blast it, in the vase down to the bottom.

Get a tetra preset heater set to 78, the short ones, put it next to the airstone and zip tie these two lines so they'll stay straight in the bowl. You must find the correct lid or none of this will work.

Its a potted plants dish you get from a garden center, meant to set plants in.

8 inch diameter see through plastic with upturned edge.

Invert it, make sure it sits just in the *inner* diameter of the vase neck.

My vid shows the correct fit.

Looks like they were packaged for each other, but it's just fluke match I spotted in a wal mart.

Cut space for incoming air/heater lines.

This lid holds in the splatter from the airstone, and now restricts freshwater evaporation down to a three day topoff window.

This means when you balance the saltwater to .023 and fill up the vase, mark the water line with a marker.

As the water line drops, fresh water is evaporating and it's concentrating the salt in your vase.

So, you must add distilled water in small amounts to always keep the specific gravity ranging in between .023 and .024 as a max variance.

This isn't complicated, it just means add some water every 2 or 3 days. Once that's running you buy a few pounds of live rock and some corals.

Dont pack it till you master it, just a few.

Buy the best reef light you can afford, the bare minimum is what I use its called a coralife mini might reef light, google them they are about 100 dollars nothing is cheaper and better sized. For the rest, you *must* buy and read books or better join in reef chat boards for immediate feedback.

Water balancing (specific gravity) and water change practices are unique to saltwater keepers and you need to get active in this hobby so you don't waste animals.

Nothing needs to be added to this bowl other than the food i mentioned, and an additive called C Balance.

Only add tiny amounts of this chemical per directions strictly in the morning before your lights timer comes on.

The web boards will streamline the rest of your questions if you are really serious about doing the setup. Other than that, I have just posted my invention free on the web so enjoy!

If you don't alter the exact variables I listed then the system will work immediately upon setup, cycling is not needed when using caribsea ls and established reef rock specifically.

Notice I don't use fish in the setups, too small for them.

These are only meant as master invertebrate tanks thats it Cost: live rock & corals beginner quantity $50 Light $100 air pump, stone and heater $30 live sand $15 vase $8 lid $3 add $50 for odds and ends.

That is the bare cheapest you can do a reef that will actually grow and keep corals, not just sustain them on a gradual decline.

Getting active in web boards about saltwater keeping is probably the dealbreaker when it comes to running a pico reef, but since these restrict evaporation the system can be done off this post alone. B

Ha! You were typing this right while I was posting my description.

Nice to meet you man I was waiting for a reefer to follow up w a hammer.

Man I promise Im not a scam, how many bots hang around to throw marine science back and forth w you ?

Lol Im here, I'll stay active and answer you.

I already did this for two days with another guy before I convinced him and I'm winded but I w hang. First of all I want to reinforce to the public do you see the response this gets from professional reefers?

I get this all the time, there is no science literature anywhere on the globe about micro coral systems so I don't expect anyone to hop on board quickly, this man cannot be sold snake oil I do belive.

I freakin post a video and they still won't believe it's real You guys need to go watch GLOBE ECOSYSTEMS on youtube for the tenth time. Im a moderator for the nanos forum at reefs.org, under brandon429.

That is the only way I can think of for you to check my history with micro sps culture. I want my namesake matched with what made you respond the way you did.

I got a little shocker for the marine science world, just a brother trying to get a leg up and show something new that's all

And lastly how many scam bots have this kind of documentation...why would they take time to do this, argue in public and risk all their work's legitimacy as in producing the thousand+ pictures I have but somehow it's all fake.

I happen to have a pic of my child working on the reef.

I was letting her take out a broken frag of brown montipora to take to show and tell in kindergarten, we're so immersed in science in my house it has cost me relationships man lol Remember this tank is three inches wide Sir at the refugium wall section, the minijet 14 on LOW is almost too much.

WHy do you think there's a flow difference of all your big pumps in a 3 foot wide tank, and one little in a 3 inch wide tank?

The acropora grew INTO the current, and shaped it's own tabular form.

These pics are old, but they are still the only pictures you will ever ever find no matter where you look for tabular acroporid growth in a half gallon, stand alone, non plumbed true reef aquarium.

Haven't marine biologists in the Caribbean and in Australia been using a similar method to this to try to rebuild the reefs?

Taking a few cuttings, growing them at home in smaller tanks, then epoxying them back to the reefs when they get stronger?

Also let me post a chronological set of pics on the acropora, from week ~12 to week 25 to week *110, it's all in the vid.

These tanks are years old and the power compact lights sit right above the corals.

Two 13 watt lights right above acropora is the same as 100watts way above bro, it's all in the video.

I take off the canopy and show you, and remember there's a giant desk fan behind the tank, thats the cooling you were looking for/ If you aren't still too skeptical of me I'm glad to meet another reef aquarist on this site.

The reason I had to invent pico reefs that looked like 180 gallon reefs is because I am no where near close enough to ever affording one that big lol its sad I can't keep fish but these are so shocking to see in person I am loyal only to micro marine science, nice to meet you bro brandon429

Grenme I do believe that's the case but there are a few variables that are different in this setup...first of all, they are not working in systems designed as stand alone ecosystems.

They are using bubble setups in flasks that keep water changes daily, or they will use standard nano tanks or tanks plumbed to other systems as mentioned (presumpted) earlier...regardless of lab setup I can guarantee they are not .5 gallon complete ecosystems.

And, they are almost certainly infusing sea water which is kind of an unfair comparison to benthic organism establishment using artificial water as nano keepers, reef tank owners do.

I think the best comparison is which is more challenging, keeping a dying patient alive in the middle of a hospital, or out in the landlocked desert with minimal tools

Also, the pre assembled ones you are mentioning in the trade shows are just large items stuck in small containers.

There is NEVER hydnophoroids grown laterally on the glass, surrounded by crusty coralline, surrounded by 20+ genera of allelopathically desensitized corals, ever in the history of tradeshow ripoffs.

They are pristinely clean cool looking tanks but the live rock and corals are from another reef, age cannot be faked in a reef tank to a trained eye.

These were cultured in situ which is worldly different and both the tanks and the *video bear the hallmarks.

You can also search for reefbowl, all the strange pico reef videos on youtube are mine.

All the rest are the standard square store-bought tank ones making their own way in the hobby after these were posted on boards dang near ten years ago, hell im just an old reef spinster by now i guess

I don't have the time to get involved in a hobby like this, but man, they look really cool! I'd probably buy one if there was a plug and play model.

Im sure someone with the resources will mass produce em one day but the closest they have now is still at 3 gallons on mass produced reefs (the picotope). Even the word pico reef comes from our web posts, a guy named liquid, an admin on reefs.org was the first to use it that I ever saw in the first reefbowl thread i put up in '02. At this rate we are looking at 2015 to get down to .5 g.

Hey why doesn't an able business person contact me and let's do some brainstorming!

Thanks for the post bro My youtube vids are: Globe Ecosystem Reefbowl Pico Reef Dynamics just paste any of these in the search bar and take the first link.

One thing I would pose to you is to see how many other pico tanks on youtube have coralline, not a one.

That means something in the overall ability of the tank, because anywhere you can grow coralline you can grow SPS with the right lighting

Also im at 4 years with these, the benthic growth, coral plating and coralline are my offered proofs.

That's not exactly short term, how old was your 180 before taking it down/ and, you are writing too exclusively for your specifications sir...you only need a skimmer if your nitrates exceed 5 ppm and you are't willing to do a full water change so, how much faster is a water change in a palmtop reef than a 10% change was in yours> in the square tank is nitrate is used as the major N contributor to the refugium biomass (see top right hand pic where plants are lifted out of the refugium) by shining a 9watt power compact light constantly I drive photosynthesis hard to scrub the tank of what you simply choose to skim.

But I assure you export is not only the realm of skimmers, you know about refugiums man!

But it's okay I know you hadn't seen the vid first.

I bought the little power compact 9w and 13w lights from aquatic ecosystems, and the answer to not skimming the vase is a water change at the 5 ppm mark. there are ways around the current rules of reefkeeping if you can apply the science and manipulate the tank space to do most of the work for you.

My point was to do the most with the least, my blend of art and absolute hardcore reef tank biology

Magyar I was hoping you'd hang around man!

I wanted you to loosen up your categoricalness after my lengthy type bud

Finally 15 posts here's the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XOsitYhihc

Magyar I was hoping you'd chat w me man you may be one of the few sw keepers we have on the forum and I was really hoping I'd convinced you these are as they appear to be with frequent water changes being the missing variable you were looking for.

Its boring wo you man The exchange of ideas really belongs in a science forum, and the fact these highlight coral growth in new ways sure would make for good comparative speakings if you'd come back and hang around a sec.

Feel free to post up some pics of your tanks too, the fish and larger corals add a depth I cannot get and it would be neat if this thread could be a marker for captive marine husbandry of different kinds.

Capsid we'd like your pics in here too if you st have em Notice the hydnophora, a very tricky coral to reproduce in a pico, is grown to the side of the acrylic and is totally fused, it can't be removed without breaking the tank. Here's a few more pics to liven up the details http://www.reefs.org/forums/download/file.php?id=27380 http://www.reefs.org/forums/download/file.php?id=27374 http://www.reefs.org/forums/download/file.php?id=27391 http://www.reefs.org/forums/download/file.php?id=27392 http://www.reefs.org/forums/download/file.php?id=27379 http://www.reefs.org/forums/download/file.php?id=31928

Very cool! Thanks for sharing.

Thanks for stopping by do you keep any marine animals? found this pic the other day as well, the little glass cube before it grew into the reef as it is now

I may start.

Originally Posted by el zone no its not too bad now with all the literature, but the current nano reef movement does not practice sealing at all Have you seen the nano-kitten tanks ( http://www.ding.net/bonsaikitten/gray.html ) - they definitely practice sealing: Yuri

Now that does look fun.

Just don't tell Darat.

Originally Posted by el zone magyar I was hoping you'd chat w me man you may be one of the few sw keepers we have on the forum and I was really hoping I'd convinced you these are as they appear to be with frequent water changes being the missing variable you were looking for.

Its boring wo you man The exchange of ideas really belongs in a science forum, and the fact these highlight coral growth in new ways sure would make for good comparative speakings if you'd come back and hang around a sec.

Feel free to post up some pics of your tanks too, the fish and larger corals add a depth I cannot get and it would be neat if this thread could be a marker for captive marine husbandry of different kinds.

Capsid we'd like your pics in here too if you st have em Notice the hydnophora, a very tricky coral to reproduce in a pico, is grown to the side of the acrylic and is totally fused, it can't be removed without breaking the tank. Here's a few more pics to liven up the details http://www.reefs.org/forums/download/file.php?id=27380 http://www.reefs.org/forums/download/file.php?id=27374 http://www.reefs.org/forums/download/file.php?id=27391 http://www.reefs.org/forums/download/file.php?id=27392 http://www.reefs.org/forums/download/file.php?id=27379 http://www.reefs.org/forums/download/file.php?id=31928 Sorry, I've been busy.

But I simply DO NOT believe you! I am not saying that nanos are not possible or that SOME frags can not be grown out for short period of time in even ultra nanos. But, the setup you describe would lead to NOTHING but an overheated, anaerobic couple of gallons of water with dead corals ESPECIALLY the acros.

Any of the lps and sps you show in those links REQUIRE a minimum of 8-12 hours of light.

IF you put that much wattage on your fishbowl the water temp would raise probably a 10-12 degrees in 12 hours (because you have ZERO water circulation, thus no evap thus no cooling) and likewise drop that much as you turned the light odd.

There are all kinds of diseases associated with corals that come from even a 2-3 degree water temp fluctuation. If you survived the first couple of days - which would be dependent on the original health of the frags you got - because it would take them longer to die not because this fantasy setup worked you would end up with a bowl that would be completely covered in either cyono and green hair depending on what minerals were coming in from the water and what was dying faster the corals or the micro algae that makes live rock "live". My setup is a 180G tank with a 300g sump.

I run 3 250W MHs for 14 hours and 6 who t12 bulbs for 12, 10, 8, (2 buls at a time) At peak that's almost 3000W of lights 8 hours and some of my acros that came from shallower tanks or from higher placements in fellow reefers thanks lose color noticeably (Light intensity in the correct spectrum is NON- Negotiable for any small polyp coral to keep its color. As for your water circulation - using an air bubble is JOKE!

I shouldn't have to explain the reasoning behind this to anyone who has even attempted to try a reef. Then you talk about top off every 2-3 days.

SO where does the calcium and the PH come from to allow you to grow these corals in such a tiny setup - and don't tell me C-balance because I simple don't believe you!

It's basic physics!

If you are able to restrict evaporation in this size a tank to needing top off only every 2-3 days.

You could not supply the amount of C balance you would have to add to maintain Ph and calcium. As for those pics.

I notices that they are EXTREMELY cropped.

I suspect that these are pics of a refugium that is hanging in or is part of a larger system and the water movement. Some good books on reefs and corals for tanks and the care are readily available - Julian Sprung is a great beginning.

Well, I can't see why someone would bother with a hoax which would impress only people who keep coral.

Why not fake a Bigfoot film or something?

It's not as if he's selling anything, either.

He's only looking for kudos, and he's trying to get it by telling people how to reproduce what he claims to have done, unlike, say, the "inventors" of perpetual motion machines.

I'm not sure, then, that we should reject el zone's claims outright. For those who are skeptical and who aren't going to attempt actual replication, what would constitute sufficient proof?

Suppose he started one of his "picoreefs" from scratch and took a picture a day using a camera held permanently in a fixed position.

This would seem easy enough if his claims are true: would it also be convincing?

You are saying a vessel that receives constant air refreshment would be anaerobic.

You are saying a vessel that is sealed, with an internal plant refugium that is lit 24x7 would be anaerobic, what does photosynthesis do in a sealed vessel mate? Im not looking for kudos, Im interested in discussing a new science with anyone with questions, comments and detractions.

Two things are for sure, no promo bots will hang around and toss marine biology in public with someone they are trying to trick and 2.

The video should come off as nearly impossible to photoshop unless you think im one of those low budget movie producers.

No kudos needed, but in the world of aquarium science the retail markets depend upon people to not think on their own, to continue taking someone else's science as the only way, and to continue buying their products when they are not needed.

I used simple solutions to solve problems and I want my namesake associated with what made you react this way.

Not trying to sell, but I also don't want other retailers taking credit for the inventions either so I sometimes discuss microscience in public forums not directly related to reefs. the lights dont overgheat because: in the square reef there's a giant fan you can clearly see, and in the vase it's just not that hot.

My home ac vent is directly over the vase for warm months, it never gets over 78 degrees period.

You'd have to set up a vase and try to counter replicate it to show otherwise as has been stated. You can't get this kind of coralline growth without good pH, what do you think constant air bubbling of the vase would do for stored up carbon dioxide and the resultant pH shifts?

What would alternately lighting a photosynthetic refugium do for the carbon dioxide producing night cycle of the dark half of the display>

There's answers to what you are asking just hang around for some more updates What I found was that basically a few corals and some live rock don't do much in a vase reef chemically speaking.

The constant throughput of the airstone closely matches the tank pH via CO2 adjustment and relates it strongly to the surrounding room.

Prevents co2/carbonic acid pH fluxes if the room is well ventilated ive seen so that is one aspect along with evaporation restriction that really helps them run.

The vase reef employs partial restriction.

The vase is an 8 dollar deco vase from wal mart, the lid is a plastic dish from the garden center that happens to fit directly on the inside inner diameter of the vase neck, that's the luckiest fit in the universe as far as im concerned lol so as the bubbles pop, the lid directs splatter back down inside the vase and this controls topoff to 3 day window, better than some large tanks.

On monday the sg will be .023 then on wed about .024 or maybe .0245 and this shift is acceptable to all marine benthic life that common our tanks. the sealed tank employs the same husbandry of water changes twice per week, which at .5 gallons isn't a large load.

It is sealed, and does not evaporate at all in between servicings when the lid is opened to reposition. to battle sweepers and other turf war, I stock with space in mind but I also employ actual micro polyp shields, little dime-sized cuts of clear polycarbonate that are totally transparent under water but present a physical shield for some corals to grow up against.

Thats my inside stocking trick lol I have also seen a direct desensitization gradient in these corals, all of which share the half gallon space without undue chemical warefare...here's some more pics of the hydnophora growing directly on the glass and plating sideways after about a year or so, nice to meet you all hope you enjoy the little sealed reefs

So, Magyar, is the answer sufficient?

El zone combines a large fan, which you can see in the video, with having the picoreefs under the air conditioning.

To which we must add the consideration that because the systems are very small, they have a high surface-area-to-volume ratio --- doubtless this solution would not scale up to larger tanks. You also mention a drop in temperature at night, but I notice that el zone includes a heater among his list of supplies.

Discussion Title: The baddest home aquarium ive ever seen
Title Keywords: baddest  home  aquarium  ever  seen  JREF  Forum 



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