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AnandTech - DIY acoustic treatments (now with lame YouTube video)
For the past few weeks I’ve been researching and planning a set of acoustic treatments for my new place.
There were a lot of resources I looked at, so I wanted to share the process with AT.
Contents:
0.
Video summary of process
1.
Why did I do this?
2.
Initial Planning
3.
Materials
4. Construction Technique
5.
Finished Room (coming soon)
6.
Before/After Impressions (coming soon)
0.
Video summary of process
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iAw6q_bT6g
Yeah, I know it's crappy
If you came here from the link in the YouTube video, detailed instructions about materials and construction technique are sections 3 and 4.
1.
Why did I do this?
Well that’s a good question.
A lot of people don’t to any treatments in their room.
I’m writing this after finishing just one panel, so at this point this section is just going to be about why I decided to do this, not did it work.
If you want the “did it work” part, go to section 6 after I’ve managed to complete everything.
I started writing this now because I wanted to take a break from cutting all the fabric
So a lot of people don’t do any room treatments, which has included myself up until well… next week I guess.
I’ve wanted to try out some room treatments for the past 3-4 years, but have not done so because
A) I haven’t had a room that would allow me to mount them
B) I haven’t felt like I really NEEDED them
C) I haven’t been able to afford any
I think in a lot of cases, people don’t make or buy room treatments because they either don’t know they exist, don’t want to bother, or don’t want to make their room look ridiculous.
I’m lucky enough to have a room designated as the “Movie room” here in my new townhouse, so I have the go ahead to do whatever I want to it.
This is still a rental property, so everything will have to be removable, and will have to be light enough to be supported by relatively light mounting hardware.
I’ve only been interested in Home Theater equipment since about 2003 or so.
Since then I’ve been through several iterations of my own Home Theater and have been in 5 different apartments / houses since then.
Through this time I feel like I’ve learned a lot and started to care a lot more about the quality of my system.
So far, I’ve enjoyed my system greatly as it has evolved and have felt like it has been performing well in each of those environments.
About a month and a half ago, I moved to this new place and claimed the living room as the Home Theater.
The dining room became a computer room, and the second bedroom became the “living room”.
I set up my equipment in the new Home Theater room, and just as I was finishing up, I sneezed.
Oh, the horror. The sound echoed and bounced off the walls for what seemed like an eternity.
I spend several minutes after that snapping around the room determining just how bad things were.
In fact, I feel like I wrote about this before… oh yes, here it is.
(I have a feeling this is going to become a massive post, but at least there are picture and a table of contents).
Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
I recently moved into a new place and have slowly been setting things up after work.
I decided to take the rest of the week off and get the movie room set up along with all the other junk I have to unpack.
I've taken a few pictures along the way to keep myself motivated
The room started off looking like this, which was a bit depressing...
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Y...lo/SettingUpBefore.JPG
After getting things unpacked, I started with the screen setup.
I decided that I wanted to try a new method of attaching the border to the screen.
I used that white piece of foam to but out big "L" brackets that I glued onto the pink foam panels.
The border essentially stays on due to friction and I also put on some cardboard to make sure things stayed attached even if things got a little looser over time.
In my previous setup I was never really happy with how the border was about half and inch away from the screen.
It eventually started to sag since they were independently attached to the walls rather than to each other and the screen.
I hope this setup will be much more stable over time.
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Y...lo/SettingUpScreen.JPG
I had a bit of an "Oh Sh!t" moment when I was figuring out how high everything was going to be vs.
The height of the ceiling.
I hadn't even thought of it when looking at different places, but I was used to higher ceilings at my last place.
These are 8 foot ceilings and I literally had about 1/2" of vertical height to spare based on the size of my components.
Flexy rack is 24" high, then a 2.5" high auralex pad for the center, and the center is 12" itself.
96 - 24 - 2.5 - 12 = 57.5"
My screen with border is 57" high.
It's not the end of the world if the center channel overlaps with the bottom of the screen, but it was really close.
When I first did the calculation, I forgot that I only used 24" threaded rods for the flexy rack and put in 36" into the calculation.
I freaked out for about 30 seconds before remembering that my flexy rack doesn't use the standard sized parts
I needed that extra 1/2" to get the screen over the nails that are holding it up.
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Y...o/SettingUpScreen2.JPG
Going has been slow since then.
These are a day apart and looking at them both, not much is different between them
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Y...sDAjello/SettingUp.JPG
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Y...DAjello/SettingUp2.jpg
Getting that flexy rack together and those few hundred pounds of equipment back on them wore me out for a day or two though I guess.
It turns out that my gf's couch, which was originally destined to reside in the spare bedroom upstairs cannot make the turn at the top of the stairs to get in there.
Decisions....
The choice ended up to either
- Give up most of the dining room (which was to be our computer room) to keep this couch in it
OR
- Figure out how to put it in the living room (which we call the "movie room"...
The master bedroom is the new "living room" and the 2nd bedroom is now the "bedroom" )
So, I decided to give in and put both a futon and a couch in the 13'x16.5' movie room.
With three walls that could viably be used as the screen wall, I chose the one pictured above (this was decided before I put the screen together, but I figured I'd mention it since there's a couch picture coming up and it reminded me of the compromise that shaped the room as it is today).
So, I could have done a few configurations with two seating areas in the room, but I decided that 2 rows of seating facing the screen (one behind the other) was best.
That meant breaking out the second pair of bass shakers and installing them on the couch.
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Y...DAjello/SettingUp3.JPG
After some troubleshooting, I eventually figured out that one of my really cheap RCA cables I use for this had broken during the move.
Both the futon and the couch are shaking as expected now.
I then decided I wanted to get the DONE, so today is my first "get this DONE" day off work.
Things went rather well today and things are basically hooked up as they should be.
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Y...DAjello/SettingUp4.JPG
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Y...DAjello/SettingUp5.JPG
A couple choices made:
2nd row (couch) is on some temporary risers to see how that goes.
They're only a few inches tall, but I needed at least an in ch to help clear the bass shakers and hopefully that extra height gives enough clearance for movie watching.
I haven't set the projector up yet, but it looks good from just looking at the blank view.
The speakers seem to be mostly unobstructed too.
After one of my surround speakers took a tumble in the last place, I've been rather wary of mounting them.
If I were to do it, I'd be using some substantial hardware for the task.
That's well... frowned upon based on the lease for the new place, so I'm testing out my spare speaker stands for them for now.
I haven't tried out how this sounds, but I'm hoping it's fine.
Subwoofer placement - I was going to have a lot more options before, but now I'm pretty limited due to having two rows of seating in here.
I'm hoping both up front near the front speakers works well enough.
Concerns:
Last night I sneezed in the room.
I'm not concerned about my health, but rather the noise it made.
That's about as close to swearing I've been in a while.
I need some acoustic treatments in here.
I spent 5 minutes after that sneezing episode assessing the situation with some finger snapping and making random vocal noises
It's the left and right wall of the room, which makes a lot of sense considering they're totally devoid of anything that would diffuse or absorb any sound bouncing between them.
On the list of things to do is getting my room darkening curtains up the window opposite the screen.
I'll only use about half of the curtain set for this, so I may end up just seeing if attaching the spare curtains to the wall is enough to take the edge off the blank wall acoustic problems.
Hopefully Audyssey MultEQ can help a little too.
I'll get to hear what kind of difference it can make in a room like this at least.
What's next:
Well I like to buy new stuff, so what's on the "to buy" list?
1.
I assume I'm going to need some acoustic treatments for this room.
95% sure this will be a DIY option.
From the results from my other DIY projects, I'm feeling more comfortable about taking on another project.
I've been wanting to do this anyway, but this is the first room that I've been in that obviously needed it to my ears.
It's also the first one where I actually have some open walls to mount them (which is probably why I actually need them )
2.
New projector... my Panasonic AE900U has served me well, but it has several issues with it that are driving me crazy.
These are probably the kind of things that most people might not even notice, but I know they're there and it's really distracting to me.
Hopefully shortly after CEDIA there will be a great option for me in the $2000 range that offers a feature set close to the Panasonic AE3000U has today.
3.
Subwoofer equalization...
Unless I were to co-locate my subs (which I do not want to do), standard Audyssey isn't really cutting it.
From the basic investigating I've done on the SVS AS-EQ1, that seems like what I really need to get to get both my subs playing nicely.
http://www.svsound.com/products-parts-subeq.cfm
After my previous experience with Audyssey and trying to get both subs working correctly, I really know that the results aren't where I want them to be.
At the same time, $700-$800 is a lot to spend on subwoofer optimization.
A few years ago I almost got a Behringer Feedback Destroyer to try to correct the dual subwoofer issues manually, but I decided against it.
The AS-EQ1 seems like a much more effective and easy option to use.
At the same time, I'm wondering how far we area away from receivers with dual independent subwoofer audyssey correction built in.
I got my Onkyo 876 for less than the price of the AS-EQ1.
It might be more cost effective to just wait until a new receiver or pre-pro comes out with the AS-EQ1's capabilities built-in rather than buying a standalone unit to just do subwoofer equalization for $700-$800.
I believe there are some high end units that do this already, so it may be coming down the line as a feature shortly?
Ok, this is a long post for the "pictures" thread, but there you have it.
Maybe for reference, previous setups:
June 2009
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Y...wsDAjello/June2009.JPG
April 2007
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Y...sDAjello/April2007.JPG
January 2006
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Y...owsDAjello/Jan2006.jpg
July 2005
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Y...wsDAjello/July2005.JPG
January 2005
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Y...owsDAjello/Jan2005.JPG
November 2004
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Y...owsDAjello/Nov2004.jpg
August 2002
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Y...owsDAjello/Aug2002.JPG
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This will be a great case study!
Especially since you have treatments, multieqxt, and freedom to move subwoofers around.
This may shed some light as to how the three factors work (acoustic panels, eq, placement) together.
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Sweet, I've been interested in doing a project like this for a while now.
Looking forward to your impressions.
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Originally posted by: Tiamat
this will be a great case study!
Especially since you have treatments, multieqxt, and freedom to move subwoofers around.
This may shed some light as to how the three factors work (acoustic panels, eq, placement) together.
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Wow...insane thread.
Can't wait to see the finished result
finally!
New computer after 6 years :D
Intel Core i7 920
Asus P6T Deluxe V2
Noctua NH-U12P Push/Pull
6GB OCZ DDR3-1600
GTX260-216 @ 655/2100
1TB Caviar Black x 4
Antec Nine Hundred Two
Antec Truepower Trio 550w
HEAT
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Just got back from Home Depot for my wood and corner bead run.
I was quite disappointed when each piece of corner bead was coming up as $5.98 rather than the $3.19 I expected.
I went back to the corner bead section and took a picture of the price to show to the cashier.
Everything went smoothly then.
If it was only a couple pieces I might not have cared, but that was the difference between $180 on corner bead and $95 as expected.
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Y...sDAjello/BeadPrice.JPG
Hurray for digital cameras
Since I have a dodge stratus, fitting 10' lengths of corner bead would have been tough.
I just stood in the back of Home Depot and cut all of it there.
Each 10' section got cut into two 4' sections and a 2' section.
I'll have to but up some of the 4' sections to balance out the ratio later, but I just needed to get stratus-sized pieces first.
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Y...wsDAjello/WoodBead.JPG
I also got some spray adhesive for the foil scrim and another package of 100 screws, which should be enough to finish.
My trunk isn't designed to hold all that much.
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Y...OhowsDAjello/Trunk.JPG
Oh, and if anyone is looking for a bunch of warped, cracked, or broken pieces of 1"x2" wood, go to the Madison West location since I sorted it all for you and left it conveniently accessible.
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Y...wsDAjello/JunkWood.JPG
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Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
Just got back from Home Depot for my wood and corner bead run.
I was quite disappointed when each piece of corner bead was coming up as $5.98 rather than the $3.19 I expected.
I went back to the corner bead section and took a picture of the price to show to the cashier.
Everything went smoothly then.
If it was only a couple pieces I might not have cared, but that was the difference between $180 on corner bead and $95 as expected.
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Y...sDAjello/BeadPrice.JPG
Hurray for digital cameras
Since I have a dodge stratus, fitting 10' lengths of corner bead would have been tough.
I just stood in the back of Home Depot and cut all of it there.
Each 10' section got cut into two 4' sections and a 2' section.
I'll have to but up some of the 4' sections to balance out the ratio later, but I just needed to get stratus-sized pieces first.
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Y...wsDAjello/WoodBead.JPG
I also got some spray adhesive for the foil scrim and another package of 100 screws, which should be enough to finish.
My trunk isn't designed to hold all that much.
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Y...OhowsDAjello/Trunk.JPG
Oh, and if anyone is looking for a bunch of warped, cracked, or broken pieces of 1"x2" wood, go to the Madison West location since I sorted it all for you and left it conveniently accessible.
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Y...wsDAjello/JunkWood.JPG
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Another nice DIY project!
(how's the Flexy Rack DIY project holding up?)
WTB/WTTF : Asus Xonar DX, Slingbox Slingcatcher, Super Mario Galaxy, Mario Kart, CDs, DVDs...
(Brand new, sealed Windows 7 Home Premium Upgrade added to FS List)
My Heat : 140-0-0
Edited: 09/28/2009 at 05:55 PM by mshan
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Originally posted by: mshan
Another nice DIY project!
(how's the Flexy Rack DIY project holding up?)
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Ok, backer frames are done.
I have one extra in case one starts on fire or something.
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Y...wsDAjello/Backers1.JPG
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Y...wsDAjello/Backers2.JPG
(A couple of them look crooked in that one, but it's because there's a rug underneath some of them)
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Y...wsDAjello/Backers3.JPG
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If the room is too live you could always just experiment by hanging some thick blankets on the side and back wall.
That way you can tell where your reflections are coming from.
It will be too much at first (the room will be VERY dead) but you can play around with it.
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Originally posted by: spidey07
If the room is too live you could always just experiment by hanging some thick blankets on the side and back wall.
That way you can tell where your reflections are coming from.
It will be too much at first (the room will be VERY dead) but you can play around with it.
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Side wall reflections do the most to "muddy" the sound from the fronts so good idea to start there, put them equidistant from the listening position to the speaker.
The echo is probably coming from front/back wall reverberation - especially if I'm seeing a window on the back wall?
Oh - I see last pic, nevermind front/back wall.
Also I always use a very sharp handclap or a loud finger snap to test.
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Originally posted by: spidey07
Side wall reflections do the most to "muddy" the sound from the fronts so good idea to start there, put them equidistant from the listening position to the speaker.
The echo is probably coming from front/back wall reverberation - especially if I'm seeing a window on the back wall?
Oh - I see last pic, nevermind front/back wall.
Also I always use a very sharp handclap or a loud finger snap to test.
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Alright, I don't want that last post to be as long as the OP eventually, so here's a fresh reply.
I've finished the first 12 panels.
They're all 2" thick 703 (plus the thickness of the backer frame).
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Y...owsDAjello/First12.JPG
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Y...jello/First12angle.JPG
I didn't run into any problems with them, although after making 12 of them, I've become more efficient at making them.
In particular, I think I have the corner folding part down
Here's my step-by-step method (any suggestions on improvement?)
1.
Staple the fabric on the backing panel except for the corners.
I believe I described this above, but again, my process is to start in the middle of one of the 48" sides and then staple that whole side making sure that it's tight along the length of that edge.
Then I switch over to the other side and start in the middle and pull it tight along that edge and make sure that I'm making it reasonably tight between this side and the first stapled side.
Then I move to one of the ends and staple the middle of it along with 2-3 staples moving toward the edge, but leaving about 6" open so the I can do the corners later.
Then do the final 24" side in the same way, but making sure to get everything tight this time since it's the last chance to do so.
At the end of this, the fabric is all finished except for the four corners that look something like this...
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Y...OhowsDAjello/Fold1.JPG
2.
I fold over the excess fabric and figure out roughly how much of that will be extra once I square up the corner for folding.
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Y...OhowsDAjello/Fold2.JPG
3.
With a pair of scissors, I cut off most of that excess fabric so the corner will be easier to fold and have a neater finished appearance.
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Y...OhowsDAjello/Fold3.JPG
4.
Now, taking the fabric that's coming off the 48" length, I do a quick fold in it to get the fabric behaving nicely along that edge.
I staple it in place.
This staple will be covered up once the fabric from the 24" side gets folder over it.
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Y...OhowsDAjello/Fold4.JPG
5.
There is the large section of fabric left now to actually make the corner.
Make a fold in it so that when pulled tight, it will be the right length to end up at the edge of the 24" side.
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Y...OhowsDAjello/Fold5.JPG
6.
Staple that in the corner and then along the excess fabric edge.
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Y...OhowsDAjello/Fold6.JPG
7.
Take something thin but dull to get excess fabric from the fold nice and tucked away flatly.
(I'm using a butter knife)
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Y...OhowsDAjello/Fold7.JPG
8.
Put in any missing staples that you skipped earlier (to give yourself room to work) along the 24" edge.
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Y...OhowsDAjello/Fold8.JPG
Oh, and since I don't remember if I mentioned this above, I'd like to put in a disclaimer.
I would like to say that I'm not a construction or safety expert or anything.
Make a project like this at your own risk.
Don't blame me if:
You shoot yourself in the finger with a staple gun
You cut your thumb off with a table saw
You disembowel yourself with an electric screwdriver
You slit your wrist with a pair of scissors
Your house burns down with a bunch of flammable materials
You crash your car on the way to Home Depot
Your identity is stolen when ordering fabric online
You inhale fiberglass fibers and destroy your lungs
Your shoddy mounting job results in a panel falling down and maiming your child
You choose black fabric color for a white room without consulting your SO and the argument results in domestic abuse or divorce
Update:
I will continue to record my progress in this thread that nobody is reading
To attach the Foil Scrim for the bass traps, I first needed to cut it to size and then use spray adhesive to glue the scrim to the 703.
Foil Scrim from Sensible Sound is $12 per 12 foot roll and is 42" wide.
http://sensiblesoundsolutions....nfo.php?products_id=46
Since the panels I'm making are 48" x 24", what I did was cut twelve 42" x 24" pieces and then twelve (actually 14) 24" x 6" patch pieces to get full 48" x 24" coverage.
To glue these on, I bit the bullet and ventured out to our townhouse's modest yard to do the spraying.
I saw a couple people out there, but they didn't really seem to care too much about what I was doing.
I was wearing my protection gear
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Y...DAjello/Protection.JPG
(but jeans rather than those gray pajama type pants).
I guess it's a good thing I got my hair cut so I don't look like a terrorist anymore (at least according to my mom).
http://forums.anandtech.com/me...id=38&threadid=2320638
I guess I could have made something up about the swine flu syndicate if anybody had asked about the mask...
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Y...jello/SwineFluCard.jpg
Anyway...
I used one of the Owens Corning boxes as the spray stand.
The spray adhesive recommended keeping the can as vertical as possible for even coverage, so I did my best.
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Y...howsDAjello/Spray1.JPG
I put 15 pounds of weights in the bottom of it to keep it from falling over.
I got an area ready for where I would put the finished sheets to dry.
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Y...howsDAjello/Spray2.JPG
For my 12 bass traps (six 4" thick and six 6" thick), I'd need one scrim covered sheet for each, so that's two boxes worth.
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Y...howsDAjello/Spray3.JPG
On the box to the right I have my pre-cut foil scrim face-down ready to go.
My Owens Corning 703 has a face that's flatter and a face that has some small raised bumps.
I picked the flatter side to attach to.
Each sheet got propped up on the stand for spraying.
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Y...howsDAjello/Spray4.JPG
I was able to do a pretty good layer of adhesive for all 12 sheets with one 16.75 OZ can of 3M Super 77 spray adhesive.
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Y...howsDAjello/Spray5.JPG
I had estimated my area of coverage in square feet in the store and this one can said it would cover it with some room to spare.
If I had to guess, I'd say I used maybe 75% of this can on the job based on what it felt like to shake it throughout the process.
Now my 12 sheets are drying one of top of another outside so I don't stink up my place or fill it with flammable fumes.
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Y...howsDAjello/Spray6.JPG
I have a couple signs up so hopefully nobody will mess with it.
My computer is right next to those windows though, so I can keep an eye on them even as I'm typing this.
Luckily I have no life and sitting on my computer for a while is what I'd be doing anyway
I'm hoping they don't stick together at all at the edges.
There should be minimum contact area between them since the foil scrim cutting job I did was pretty good.
So the layering goes
Foil Scrim
Spray Adhesive
Owens Corning 703
(repeat)
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Y...howsDAjello/Spray7.JPG
I don't really know how long I'm supposed to let this stuff air out so that the smell won't be a big deal once I get them inside.
Hopefully I'll guess correctly
Update 2:
All 6" panels are done as well.
I was considering making some short corner bead lengths to keep the 6" edges of the panels square, but I did the first one without it and decided it was unnecessary work.
They look nice and consistent without the additional step.
(I'll update the OP with the difference in steps between the bass traps and the original 2" panel directions)
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Wow, nice work so far!
You are making quite a bit of progress!
As for me, I managed to buy a LoveSac loveseat and a panasonic plasma LOL.
Credit card is gonna cry a little come end of the month
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Originally posted by: Tiamat
wow, nice work so far!
You are making quite a bit of progress!
As for me, I managed to buy a LoveSac loveseat and a panasonic plasma LOL.
Credit card is gonna cry a little come end of the month
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Now with lame Youtube video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iAw6q_bT6g
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Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
Now with lame Youtube video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iAw6q_bT6g
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I did a rough fit of where things will go today.
Getting two 4' tall traps to fit into a carpeted room with 8' ceilings was tricky, but I got them in.
This is pretty distorted...
I probably should have used that tripod that's conveniently pictured in the photo
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Y...owsDAjello/RoomFit.jpg
The 4" traps that are eventually going on the ceiling/wall corners are sitting on their sides now on the ground and are keeping the five 2" panels on the side walls at the right height instead.
The back of the room needs work now that I have the projector shelf and subwoofer in the middle of the room.
Hopefully my actual plan for the back of the room will be a reality if I get get a narrow shelving unit for the projector that will fit around / above the subwoofer.
I can't ceiling mount here.
EDIT:
Non-photo-stitch type images:
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Y...ello/FitFrontRight.JPG
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Y...jello/FitFrontLeft.JPG
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Y...jello/FitBackRight.JPG
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Y...Ajello/FitBackLeft.JPG
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