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Is Redhat/Fedora Losing Interest in KDE? - FedoraForum.org
KDE was never updated to 3.4.3.
3.5.0 was released on November 26 yet even the rawhide build is incomplete.
Is there some economic incentive for preferencing Gnome over KDE (if that is what they are doing)?
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On Fri, 2005-12-16 at 09:43 -0500, David Cary Quote: :
>
KDE was never updated to 3.4.3.
3.5.0 was released on November 26 yet even the rawhide build is incomplete.
>
>
Is there some economic incentive for preferencing Gnome over KDE (if that is what they are doing)?
>
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AFAIK Fedora is committed to releasing last stable vanilla KDE builds on
each release.
(Hence, KDE 3.4.0 included in FC4;
Then updated to 3.4.2)
Don't forget that newer GNOME releases were also never released to
Fedora.
(Hence, no GNOME 2.12 for FC4, no GNOME 2.10/12 for FC3)
The KDE-RedHat project is releasing KDE 3.5 i386 packages for FC and
RHEL/clones distros.
http://kde-redhat.sourceforge.net/
There's initial work x86_64 packages also.
Gilboa
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On 12/16/05, David Cary Hart Quote: :
>
KDE was never updated to 3.4.3.
3.5.0 was released on November 26 yet e=
ven the rawhide build is incomplete.
>
>
Is there some economic incentive for preferencing Gnome over KDE (if th=
at is what they are doing)?
That's strange -- have you looked at the "dev" fc5 branch?
I seen 3.5
related things in there.
My LinuxPPC FC5 iMac runs KDE much better than Gnome (gnome crashes
eash time I try to use it.)
Plus I was able to "compile" all the kwebdev stuff to get Quanta
working in under 2 hours.
And thats on a iMac 350 with 320MB Ram.
W00t!
LOL. =3D)
--
WC -Sx- Jones | http://ccsh.us/ | Open Source Consulting
--=20
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On Fri, 16 Dec 2005 12:33:58 -0500
Chasecreek Systemhouse <chasecreek.systemhouse@gmail.com>
Opined:
> On 12/16/05, David Cary Hart Quote: :
>
> KDE was never updated to 3.4.3.
3.5.0 was released on November 26
>
> yet even the rawhide build is incomplete.
>
>
> That's strange -- have you looked at the "dev" fc5 branch?
I seen 3.5
> related things in there.
Yes.
Arts, Kdepim and Kdebase are still RC-2
>
>
My LinuxPPC FC5 iMac runs KDE much better than Gnome (gnome crashes
>
Eash time I try to use it.)
I don't want to (re)ignite the Gnome-Kde food fight but I much prefer
KDE.
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David Cary Quote: :
>On Fri, 16 Dec 2005 12:33:58 -0500
>Chasecreek Systemhouse <chasecreek.systemhouse@gmail.com>
Opined:
>
>
>
>>On 12/16/05, David Cary Hart Quote: :
>>
>>
>>>KDE was never updated to 3.4.3.
3.5.0 was released on November 26
>>>yet even the rawhide build is incomplete.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>That's strange -- have you looked at the "dev" fc5 branch?
I seen 3.5
>>related things in there.
>>
>>
>
>Yes.
Arts, Kdepim and Kdebase are still RC-2
>
>
>>My LinuxPPC FC5 iMac runs KDE much better than Gnome (gnome crashes
>>eash time I try to use it.)
>>
>>
>
>I don't want to (re)ignite the Gnome-Kde food fight but I much prefer
>KDE.
>
>
I don't want to reignite anything hostile threads either....
But you're
not alone:
http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl.../12/13/1340215
-Mike
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Mike Quote: :
>
David Cary Quote: :
>>I don't want to (re)ignite the Gnome-Kde food fight but I much prefer
>>KDE.
>>
>>
>
>
I don't want to reignite anything hostile threads either....
But you're
> not alone:
>
>
Http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl.../12/13/1340215
I don't understand why Linus Torvald's opinion on this matters to anyone
but himself.
I use both GNOME (on my own desktop FC2 machine) and KDE (on my
girlfriend's DEBIAN machine).
Aside from the fact that I have a friendly dislike for *all* GUIs,
and use them mostly just to start up console windows so I can
get command-line access, I don't find that either of them is
particularly superior to the other.
I do find that the KDE menu
is less well thought out than GNOME, making it harder to find things
when I need them.
KDE is supposedly the "power user's I/F", which
I find odd, given that I have a really hard time finding the
extra power it brings.
So, I find no reason to switch from GNOME on my machine to KDE.
And, if I had KDE running, I probably wouldn't find any particular
reason to switch to GNOME.
I don't even understand why anyone would have strong feelings about
it.
Just give me a way to have more than one command-line interface,
and run my web browser and e-mail at the same time.
I don't need
a GUI to administer my machine, and find that it generally gets
in the way, whether it be GNOME or KDE.
Mike
--
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This message made from 100% recycled bits.
You have found the bank of Larn.
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On 12/16/05, Mike McGrath Quote: :
>
David Cary Quote: :
>
>
>On Fri, 16 Dec 2005 12:33:58 -0500
>
>Chasecreek Systemhouse <chasecreek.systemhouse@gmail.com>
Opined:
> >
>
>
> >
>
>>On 12/16/05, David Cary Hart Quote: :
>
>>
> >>
>
>>>KDE was never updated to 3.4.3.
3.5.0 was released on November 26
>
>>>yet even the rawhide build is incomplete.
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>That's strange -- have you looked at the "dev" fc5 branch?
I seen 3.=
5
>
>>related things in there.
>
>>
> >>
>
>
> >Yes.
Arts, Kdepim and Kdebase are still RC-2
>
>
> >
>
>>My LinuxPPC FC5 iMac runs KDE much better than Gnome (gnome crashes
>
>>eash time I try to use it.)
>
>>
> >>
>
>
> >I don't want to (re)ignite the Gnome-Kde food fight but I much prefer
>
>KDE.
> >
>
>
> I don't want to reignite anything hostile threads either....
But you're
> not alone:
>
>
Http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl.../12/13/1340215
It gets really interesting when you follow the links and see exactly
what Linus said.
--
Leonard Isham, CISSP
Ostendo non ostento.
--=20
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David Cary Quote: :
I don't think RH is losing interest in KDE, but I do have a rant about it.
>>My LinuxPPC FC5 iMac runs KDE much better than Gnome (gnome crashes
>>eash time I try to use it.)
I did not in recent memory have a KDE or Gnome crash, it is all very
solid nowadays.
>
I don't want to (re)ignite the Gnome-Kde food fight but I much prefer
>
KDE.
To be fair before the partisan stuff , Gnome and Nautilus has improved a
lot since the last time I really tried it in RH9 days.
After the SuSE announcement that KDE was to be backburnered (I since
read it was something of a lesser commitment) I tried Gnome for a couple
of weeks.
When I realized that I was staring at a Gnome desktop covered
in KDE apps (kate, kwrite, konsole, in the end even konqueror for
filesystem navigation) superior enough to the Gnome equivalents (I did
not find a Gnome equivalent to the excellent kate) to be chosen over
them, I had a bit of an epiphany that I was in fact a KDE person.
I
went back to KDE 3.4 and await FC5 for KDE 3.5.
Afterwards I read
Linus' rant and the responses and I knew where that was coming from.
Then today a recent update broke Alsa in xmms for me, so I tried
rhythmbox.
There was no way I could find, even after I googled to find
out about gstreamer-properties, to select a non-default Alsa sound
channel, eg, 0.2.
What an insult that is, to "protect the user" by not
presenting even gstreamer-properties capability in the enduser app, no
way to discover it from the app either.
This "present simplicity to the
user" boils down to "make the user google (and feel inadequate when they
deviate from the usability script)".
It's like the undiscoverable
Ctrl-L in the Gnome File Open dialog all over again: Ctrl-L, the
"obvious solution" to typing filepaths.
In the end the reductionism in vogue in Gnome leads to the lightswitch.
There is one user bimodal interface element and there is one pixel.
It's perfect and it's useful but it's not what you need in a desktop
environment.
-Andy
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Leonard Quote: :
>
It gets really interesting when you follow the links and see exactly
>
What Linus said.
Did you also read the follow-up, where the developer who made the
decision stated categorically that Linus was wrong?
I've always thought it to be a mistake to attribute motives to
other people's actions.
This is no different in Linus' case.
He
shouldn't be attributing motives to other peoples' actions.
And, as I said before, I don't understand the need to have
strong feelings about what GUI one uses on his machine,
nor do I see why Linus' thoughts on the matter are any
more important or interesting than anyone else'.
Mike
--
p="p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){pri ntf(p,34,p,34);}
This message made from 100% recycled bits.
You have found the bank of Larn.
I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you.
I speak only for myself, and I am unanimous in that!
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On 12/16/05, Mike McCarty Quote: :
>
Leonard Quote: :
>
>
> It gets really interesting when you follow the links and see exactly
>
> what Linus said.
>
>
Did you also read the follow-up, where the developer who made the
>
Decision stated categorically that Linus was wrong?
>
>
I've always thought it to be a mistake to attribute motives to
>
Other people's actions.
This is no different in Linus' case.
He
> shouldn't be attributing motives to other peoples' actions.
>
I did not state that I agreed with Linus's language or conclusions.=20
Linus is well known at least in Open Source circles.
My opinion is not relevant , IMHO, and would not add any value.
On
the other hand reading the actual comments allows everyone to make up
their own mind.
Which is relevant, IMHO.
>
And, as I said before, I don't understand the need to have
>
Strong feelings about what GUI one uses on his machine,
>
Nor do I see why Linus' thoughts on the matter are any
>
More important or interesting than anyone else'.
>
>
Mike
> --
>
P=3D"p=3D%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main() {printf(p,34,p,34);}
>
This message made from 100% recycled bits.
>
You have found the bank of Larn.
>
I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you.
>
I speak only for myself, and I am unanimous in that!
>
>
--
> fedora-list mailing list
>
Fedora-list@redhat.com
>
To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
>
--
Leonard Isham, CISSP
Ostendo non ostento.
--=20
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Leonard Quote: :
>
On 12/16/05, Mike McCarty Quote: :
>
>>Leonard Quote: :
>>
>>
>>>It gets really interesting when you follow the links and see exactly
>>>what Linus said.
>>
>>Did you also read the follow-up, where the developer who made the
>>decision stated categorically that Linus was wrong?
>>
>>I've always thought it to be a mistake to attribute motives to
>>other people's actions.
This is no different in Linus' case.
He
>>shouldn't be attributing motives to other peoples' actions.
>>
>
>
>
I did not state that I agreed with Linus's language or conclusions.
True.
But you also didn't answer my question, did you?
>
Linus is well known at least in Open Source circles.
I am very aware of Linus Torvalds and who he is and what he
did.
>
My opinion is not relevant , IMHO, and would not add any value.
On
> the other hand reading the actual comments allows everyone to make up
>
Their own mind. Which is relevant, IMHO.
I was wondering why Linus' opinion got Quote: d on a website, as
if his opinion mattered any more than anyone else', and why
his statements would help anyone make up his own mind any
more than some of mine might.
I have myself written two kernels for embedded
real time systems, and supported three others.
Do
you think that makes me an expert in GUI design?
Do you think that my opinions about GUIs
should be Quote: d on websites as if they mattered?
Linus Torvald wrote a kernel.
Does that make *him* an expert
in GUI design?
I think that the only reason Linus' opinion matters so much
is that he is famous.
I am no more impressed that he has
an opinion about GUI design and gets Quote: d than I am by the
fact that actors have political opinions and so get Quote: d
by the press.
Being an actor does not make one an expert
at politics or national relations.
Writing a kernel does
not make one an expert at GUI design.
>>And, as I said before, I don't understand the need to have
>>strong feelings about what GUI one uses on his machine,
It's interesting that you chose not to respond to this.
I am reminded of the heated arguments years ago among
the "Open Software Community" about whether to pronounce
"Linux" as "linnuks" or as "lie-nuks".
So much so, that
Linus put on his website an audio file of him stating
that he pronounced it "lee-nooks", which was the way
I had been pronouncing it.
One would guess that his
putting his own preferred pronunciation on his website
was what put the argument to rest (I trow there are many
here who haven't even heard about the argument).
But I know it wasn't, because the only pronunciation I ever hear
now is "linnuks".
There seems to be a very deeply ingrained need in people
to be "right".
And the less actual reason there is to
prefer one means of doing something over another, the
more obviously the emotional basis for the personal
decisions becomes discernable.
The very most heated
arguments seem to be over purely personal preferences.
I don't like GUIs anyway.
I don't use Nautilus to
"navigate" my directories (my machine doesn't have
"folders" on it).
I like being able to have more than
one console window open at a time, though.
And as for Linus' statement that GNOME is slower for
directory entry, I find that *any* GUI cannot begin
to compete with a command-line I/F in speed for killing a print
job, for example.
First I've gotta find where the
ICON for the print queue manager got put on this particular
GUI.
Then I've got to move the mouse and click it.
It
takes a second or so for the manager to display it's
pop-up.
Then more mouse movement (usually all the way
across the screen) to select what job to kill.
Two command
lines on whichever console window I'm using, and I'm done.
So speed is not the real issue.
The real issue is personal
preference.
(I usually use the graphical I/F for killing
a print job, BTW.)
And as the ancient Romans said "De gustibus non disputandum
est." Except that there est a lot of disputandum over
gustibus among and within the "Free Software Community".
BTW, a community is a collection of people who live in
a certain locale and are subject to the same laws.
Mike
--
p="p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){pri ntf(p,34,p,34);}
This message made from 100% recycled bits.
You have found the bank of Larn.
I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you.
I speak only for myself, and I am unanimous in that!
--
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On 12/16/05, Andy Green Quote: :
>
To be fair before the partisan stuff , Gnome and Nautilus has improved =
a
>
Lot since the last time I really tried it in RH9 days.
For many years I was Gnome Gnome Gnome;
But starting with FC4 last
year I have seriously only been KDE KDE KDE.
Why?
Mainly because I see forward movement in KDE on multiple
platforms (the primary that I use Debian and FC mainly.) And I see
foreward movement in development efforts to help other programmers=20
"get into" Open Source development using KDE and related tools -- I do
not see this in Gnome and the lord knows I spent almost 30 minutes
trying to explain cross platform code compatibilty to a IT306 SDLC
student -- his question?
Where the hell was the GTK for Windows and
why does it seem hidden?
Until last night he was a big fan of Gnome
-- but I assigned a cross platform software project that must be
designed on Windows;
Tested on i366 FC4 and targeted for a PPC FC5
system.
At any rate I have gotten more use out of KDE -- and people use what
is more useful for them.
--
WC -Sx- Jones | http://ccsh.us/ | Open Source Consulting
--=20
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Chasecreek Quote: :
>
On 12/16/05, Andy Green Quote: :
>
>
>>To be fair before the partisan stuff , Gnome and Nautilus has improved a
>>lot since the last time I really tried it in RH9 days.
>
>
>
For many years I was Gnome Gnome Gnome;
But starting with FC4 last
>
Year I have seriously only been KDE KDE KDE.
>
>
Why? Mainly because I see forward movement in KDE on multiple
>
Platforms (the primary that I use Debian and FC mainly.) And I see
>
Foreward movement in development efforts to help other programmers
>
"get into" Open Source development using KDE and related tools -- I do
>
Not see this in Gnome and the lord knows I spent almost 30 minutes
>
Trying to explain cross platform code compatibilty to a IT306 SDLC
>
Student -- his question?
Where the hell was the GTK for Windows and
>
Why does it seem hidden?
Until last night he was a big fan of Gnome
>
-- but I assigned a cross platform software project that must be
>
Designed on Windows;
Tested on i366 FC4 and targeted for a PPC FC5
>
System.
What has this got to do with whether one uses KDE or GNOME on his
desktop?
I run one (1) one KDE app on my otherwise GNOME machine,
K3b.
It runs just fine with GNOME.
Using KDE toolkits or GTK
toolkits is really an entirely separate issue from whether one
or the other GUI is a better interface for some particular user,
for use in administering his machine.
In any case, good software design puts the system dependent
parts in well-sequestered places, and not splattered all over the
code.
Anyone designing code intended to be run on a diversity
of platforms isn't going so much to care which ones he's targeting
as how many.
"More than one" means a lot more than which one.
>
At any rate I have gotten more use out of KDE -- and people use what
>
Is more useful for them.
Now there's a statement all can agree with.
You make a statement
about yourself, and about people.
No one can vouchsafe what you
say about yourself, and the latter is self-evident.
(For reasonable
people, anyway.)
Mike
--
p="p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){pri ntf(p,34,p,34);}
This message made from 100% recycled bits.
You have found the bank of Larn.
I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you.
I speak only for myself, and I am unanimous in that!
--
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On 12/16/05, Mike McCarty Quote: :
>
What has this got to do with whether one uses KDE or GNOME
Well, mainly background and history of -
1) Why was the student's question asked to start with;
And
2) I'm pushing KDE development over Gnome to SDLC students?
OK, forget 2) -- that's trolling...
Sorry.
--
WC -Sx- Jones | http://ccsh.us/ | Open Source Consulting
--=20
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On Fri, 16 Dec 2005 14:25:32 -0600
Mike McCarty <mike.mccarty@sbcglobal.net>
Opined:
>
>
I was wondering why Linus' opinion got Quote: d on a website, as
>
If his opinion mattered any more than anyone else', and why
>
His statements would help anyone make up his own mind any
>
More than some of mine might.
>
Come on.
Linus' opinion has considerable weight irrespective of the
fact that this involves a GUI and not the kernel.
Moreover, he is a
disinterested party in the debate.
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