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Google Chrome: Google builds an OPERATING SYSTEM! (p34) - Moe's Stupid Technology Tavern - Penny Arcade Forums

09-01-2008, 09:40 PM Update: Google is now using Chrome as the centerpiece of a new web-os targeted at netbooks. Announcement! Discussion starts on page 34.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled OP. So, Google is apparently building a web browser.

Sweet! Comic book action! Blog post Blurry photographic evidence Random details!

Based on WebKit, the same engine Konqueror and Safari use.

Very heavily based around Tabs.

Each tab is it's own process, and each tab is sandboxed.

Buggy Web 2.0 sites can no longer take down the entire web browser.

Interesting permission system.

Really fast JavaScript execution.

The page talks about compiling it to machine code.

Takes Firefox 3's awesomebar and makes it more handy/private.

Grabs a bunch of nifty UI stuff from Opera.

Plugins! Open source! ...and beta coming soon.

Windows first, Linux and OS X in the works. This is made of win SO HARD . The download was supposed to go up on midnight Monday, but they appear to be redirecting people back to search right now.

It'll probably reactive within the next day or so. Download

09-01-2008, 09:53 PM Quote: : ...and beta coming soon.

Windows first, Linux and OS X in the works.

And by soon, you mean tomorrow.

09-01-2008, 10:03 PM Man, I love Google so much.

I'm sure this will be awesome.

If only the false rumors about them developing an OS were true (they aren't, don't start looking for one).

09-01-2008, 10:19 PM I'm rather interested to see what they managed to do with Webkit because well, lets face it, neither Safari nor Konqueror are what I would call good or even half decent browsers. also, Operas Intelligent bar blows the awesome bar away, i wish they'd copied that instead =(

09-01-2008, 10:53 PM nice!

I love firefox but I'll definitely check this out asap.

09-01-2008, 10:55 PM Not enough love for Avant Browser.

09-01-2008, 11:10 PM Quote: : Not enough love for Avant Browser.

Why should there be?

Avant is just a skin for IE.

09-01-2008, 11:21 PM Interesting (but not surprising) that it's based on WebKit and not Gecko, which is starting to lose its pull as the de facto open-source layout engine.

WebKit has been embraced by Apple (obviously;

Safari for the Mac and iPhone), Google (Android and now Chrome), Nokia (for its phones and internet tablet thingies), even some old Gecko projects (e.g., Epiphany), and of course, Konqueror is going to switch over. Wonder how the V8 JavaScript engine compares to Adobe/Mozilla's Tamarin (which is supposed to make it into Mozilla 2/Firefox 4) or Apple's Squirrelfish.

All three compile the JavaScript into bytecode and are supposed to be stupid fast, but since they were all developed independently around the same time, I dunno if there's been much comparison between them.

09-01-2008, 11:28 PM Quote: : also, Operas Intelligent bar blows the awesome bar away, i wish they'd copied that instead =( Actually, they kind of based it more on Opera's than Firefox's.

The Chrome "omnibar" searches pages in history (as Opera's does), but also does a bit of auto-googling and saves search engines for use later.

There's a bit about this on pages 19 and 20 of the comic. EDIT: Not sure if it's worth mentioning, but the Labs edition of Gtalk uses WebKit to render bits of its UI.

09-02-2008, 12:08 AM The comic book is fantastic.

Everyone read it.

Really. Especially if you have a programming background.

It's an absolutely fascinating look into why and how they've built what they've built, more specifically the architecture of the browser. edit: Just noticed the OP doesn't have the link to the Google Books version, which allows you to get it in PDF: http://books.google.com/books?id=8Us...tcover#PPP1,M1 Quote: : Not enough love for Avant Browser.

Try and polish shit all you want, it's still going to smell a little and attract flies.

09-02-2008, 12:38 AM Quote: : edit: Just noticed the OP doesn't have the link to the Google Books version, which allows you to get it in PDF: http://books.google.com/books?id=8Us...tcover#PPP1,M1 The google books version is hard to read and the pdf link is broken.

This is probably why they stopped linking to it via the blog.

But yeah, the comic is really good!

09-02-2008, 01:04 AM Looking forward to this very much.

Hopefully it won't take long for a) any bad bugs to get smoothed out, b) the linux release.

09-02-2008, 01:31 AM •Very heavily based around Tabs.

Each tab is it's own process, and each tab is sandboxed.

Buggy Web 2.0 sites can no longer take down the entire web browser. These are already in Internet Explorer, so nothing new.

09-02-2008, 01:33 AM Meh, Avant is just a skin for IE, yea, but it does what I need, and often times has alot more options then Firefox, especially for tab management, which is king considering I run 15-20 tabs at a time with the work that I do.

Firefox has some horrid tab-management when you're running windows en masse, unless there's an addon i'm missing that changes how they operate.

09-02-2008, 01:34 AM Dark Quote: : •Very heavily based around Tabs.

Each tab is it's own process, and each tab is sandboxed.

Buggy Web 2.0 sites can no longer take down the entire web browser. These are already in Internet Explorer, so nothing new.

Buh? IE8, yes. But not in IE7.

And IE8 is still in beta and far from out, so ?

09-02-2008, 01:35 AM Desert_Eagle25, since you use Avant give the IE8 beta a try.

They've done a lot with tab grouping & threaded processes. Quote: : Dark Quote: : •Very heavily based around Tabs.

Each tab is it's own process, and each tab is sandboxed.

Buggy Web 2.0 sites can no longer take down the entire web browser. These are already in Internet Explorer, so nothing new.

Buh? IE8, yes. But not in IE7.

And IE8 is still in beta and far from out, so ?

IE7 does have the sandbox mode.

You're actually going to bring up the issue of a program being a beta in defense of a Google app?

IE8 has it in a released form so they were first.

I'm willing to be the full version of IE8 will be out before the non-beta of Chrome.

FYI, IE8 is do out before the end of this year.

09-02-2008, 01:50 AM Dark Quote: : Desert_Eagle25, since you use Avant give the IE8 beta a try.

They've done a lot with tab grouping & threaded processes. Quote: : Dark Quote: : •Very heavily based around Tabs.

Each tab is it's own process, and each tab is sandboxed.

Buggy Web 2.0 sites can no longer take down the entire web browser. These are already in Internet Explorer, so nothing new.

Buh? IE8, yes. But not in IE7.

And IE8 is still in beta and far from out, so ?

IE7 does have the sandbox mode.

You're actually going to bring up the issue of a program being a beta in defense of a Google app?

IE8 has it in a released form so they were first.

I'm willing to be the full version of IE8 will be out before the non-beta of Chrome.

FYI, IE8 is do out before the end of this year.

Nah, ie8 is just the same.

They handle tab's "literally" as tabs with the little graphic of a file tab, and if i have 15-20 tabs open i'll need to scroll through all of them.

In Avant, the tabs arent "tabs" but little task boxes that can be hidden or viewed all at once.

Meaning I can see all 20 tabs together (yea they take up alot of space, but thats what I want) and I can go through any of them instantly without having to jump through hoops to get to two tabs that are 10 tabs apart. Do you have any idea of how irritating it is to have to jump through 20 different tabs to get bits and pieces of information, and be forced to deal with a little scrolling thing limiting how many tabs I can view?

Atleast with avant everything is layed out in front of me so I can do all of my work at once.

09-02-2008, 02:23 AM I think you're confused, or Avant does something I never heard about.

IE8 launches each tab in a separate process so that if one tab goes bad, it doesn't crash the entire browser.

Not a huge problem, but I can see it being nice.

This goes a bit further and supposedly shows you exactly how much memory/processor time each tab is taking up so you can yell at the web pages/plugin vendors instead of Google when you run out of RAM. To be honest, most of the rest of this shit just looks like ideas that have already been done, or have already been proposed, or combinations of the two.

I really don't get what Google is trying to do here, besides throw their brand name on yet another product, and probably split the browser market once again (now you have to test your code on 5 products instead of 4!) Everyone keeps wanting to make the web into the new desktop, but it seems like the web just ain't ready for it yet.

Until I turn to a web app to write/create presentations/edit images/spreadsheet stuff, I really don't think the market is there yet.

And the problem isn't in Javascript speed.

It has more to do with HTML just being a shitty language for some of that shit, and HTML editors being even worse.

09-02-2008, 02:26 AM Quote: : I think you're confused, or Avant does something I never heard about.

IE8 launches each tab in a separate process so that if one tab goes bad, it doesn't crash the entire browser.

Not a huge problem, but I can see it being nice.

This goes a bit further and supposedly shows you exactly how much memory/processor time each tab is taking up so you can yell at the web pages/plugin vendors instead of Google when you run out of RAM. To be honest, most of the rest of this shit just looks like ideas that have already been done, or have already been proposed, or combinations of the two.

I really don't get what Google is trying to do here, besides throw their brand name on yet another product, and probably split the browser market once again (now you have to test your code on 5 products instead of 4!) Everyone keeps wanting to make the web into the new desktop, but it seems like the web just ain't ready for it yet.

Until I turn to a web app to write/create presentations/edit images/spreadsheet stuff, I really don't think the market is there yet.

And the problem isn't in Javascript speed.

It has more to do with HTML just being a shitty language for some of that shit, and HTML editors being even worse.

Yes, i'm definitely confused about how avant runs considering I use it.

I dont care about separate processes, what I care about is being able to see all 20 of my tabs and going through them seamlessly rather than having to be forced to view only 5-6 at a time, and then being forced to "scroll" through them. Let me put it in words you guys can understand.

I have 20 pieces of paper, and I want to access all of the information on that paper simultaneously, so I organize it into a folder, each paper having it's own tab.

But, instead of each tab showing, where I can go ahead and access each one quickly, I can only see 5 tabs at a time, and the remainder of the tabs stack on top of each other.

So instead of seeing straight 20 tabs, I get 5 stacks of 4 tabs each.

Which is stupid. EDIT: Not saying I hate Firefox or Opera, I love em, very efficient pieces of software.

It's just this single feature is a make or break for me, and it seems I've only seen it available in Avant where I can access all of my tabs at once instead of in intervals.

Unless I'm wrong and someone can show me an addon, then I'll be happily proved wrong and move on to some other browser.

09-02-2008, 02:55 AM as someone who devs websites i hope that google fixes webkit if they are going to use it, i noticed safari has a rendering issue that isn't present in fx, ie or opera...

I'm cautiously optimistic about this but knowing i'm going to need to test on another web browser is a pain in the butt.

09-02-2008, 03:35 AM Quote: : Quote: : I think you're confused, or Avant does something I never heard about.

IE8 launches each tab in a separate process so that if one tab goes bad, it doesn't crash the entire browser.

Not a huge problem, but I can see it being nice.

This goes a bit further and supposedly shows you exactly how much memory/processor time each tab is taking up so you can yell at the web pages/plugin vendors instead of Google when you run out of RAM. To be honest, most of the rest of this shit just looks like ideas that have already been done, or have already been proposed, or combinations of the two.

I really don't get what Google is trying to do here, besides throw their brand name on yet another product, and probably split the browser market once again (now you have to test your code on 5 products instead of 4!) Everyone keeps wanting to make the web into the new desktop, but it seems like the web just ain't ready for it yet.

Until I turn to a web app to write/create presentations/edit images/spreadsheet stuff, I really don't think the market is there yet.

And the problem isn't in Javascript speed.

It has more to do with HTML just being a shitty language for some of that shit, and HTML editors being even worse.

Yes, i'm definitely confused about how avant runs considering I use it.

I dont care about separate processes, what I care about is being able to see all 20 of my tabs and going through them seamlessly rather than having to be forced to view only 5-6 at a time, and then being forced to "scroll" through them. Let me put it in words you guys can understand.

I have 20 pieces of paper, and I want to access all of the information on that paper simultaneously, so I organize it into a folder, each paper having it's own tab.

But, instead of each tab showing, where I can go ahead and access each one quickly, I can only see 5 tabs at a time, and the remainder of the tabs stack on top of each other.

So instead of seeing straight 20 tabs, I get 5 stacks of 4 tabs each.

Which is stupid. EDIT: Not saying I hate Firefox or Opera, I love em, very efficient pieces of software.

It's just this single feature is a make or break for me, and it seems I've only seen it available in Avant where I can access all of my tabs at once instead of in intervals.

Unless I'm wrong and someone can show me an addon, then I'll be happily proved wrong and move on to some other browser.

Tab Kit! For FF3! Seriously, that was holding you back?

09-02-2008, 03:52 AM Quote: : Quote: : Quote: : I think you're confused, or Avant does something I never heard about.

IE8 launches each tab in a separate process so that if one tab goes bad, it doesn't crash the entire browser.

Not a huge problem, but I can see it being nice.

This goes a bit further and supposedly shows you exactly how much memory/processor time each tab is taking up so you can yell at the web pages/plugin vendors instead of Google when you run out of RAM. To be honest, most of the rest of this shit just looks like ideas that have already been done, or have already been proposed, or combinations of the two.

I really don't get what Google is trying to do here, besides throw their brand name on yet another product, and probably split the browser market once again (now you have to test your code on 5 products instead of 4!) Everyone keeps wanting to make the web into the new desktop, but it seems like the web just ain't ready for it yet.

Until I turn to a web app to write/create presentations/edit images/spreadsheet stuff, I really don't think the market is there yet.

And the problem isn't in Javascript speed.

It has more to do with HTML just being a shitty language for some of that shit, and HTML editors being even worse.

Yes, i'm definitely confused about how avant runs considering I use it.

I dont care about separate processes, what I care about is being able to see all 20 of my tabs and going through them seamlessly rather than having to be forced to view only 5-6 at a time, and then being forced to "scroll" through them. Let me put it in words you guys can understand.

I have 20 pieces of paper, and I want to access all of the information on that paper simultaneously, so I organize it into a folder, each paper having it's own tab.

But, instead of each tab showing, where I can go ahead and access each one quickly, I can only see 5 tabs at a time, and the remainder of the tabs stack on top of each other.

So instead of seeing straight 20 tabs, I get 5 stacks of 4 tabs each.

Which is stupid. EDIT: Not saying I hate Firefox or Opera, I love em, very efficient pieces of software.

It's just this single feature is a make or break for me, and it seems I've only seen it available in Avant where I can access all of my tabs at once instead of in intervals.

Unless I'm wrong and someone can show me an addon, then I'll be happily proved wrong and move on to some other browser.

Tab Kit! For FF3! Seriously, that was holding you back?

I use Firefox + Avant, avant for working and browsing, Firefox for general browsing.

But since I'd always do my work on the side, I would just go my browsing+work in Avant and ignore Firefox.

I'll definitely try this addon out, thanks mate.

09-02-2008, 04:30 AM Quote: : Dark Quote: : •Very heavily based around Tabs.

Each tab is it's own process, and each tab is sandboxed.

Buggy Web 2.0 sites can no longer take down the entire web browser. These are already in Internet Explorer, so nothing new.

Buh? IE8, yes. But not in IE7.

And IE8 is still in beta and far from out, so ?

And also won't ever be coming to the Mac. I'm actually pretty interested in this.

I already run Bloglines and HiTask in Firefox along with forum browsing etc.

And access our company database through Safari.

Bloglines and HiTask are essentially web apps that are constantly running and can get a bit chuggy sometimes.

The database is more of a passive project management application - it only does stuff when I tell it too - but I do a lot of uploading and downloading of very large print-ready artwork files through it and usually have multiple job tabs open at all times.

It sounds like Google Chrome could be an ideal browser for the database, bloglines and HiTask and then I can keep Firefox for casual browsing.

Or possibly just have a separate collection of tabs in Chrome if it really is that good.

09-02-2008, 06:34 AM Quote: : nah, ie8 is just the same.

They handle tab's "literally" as tabs with the little graphic of a file tab, and if i have 15-20 tabs open i'll need to scroll through all of them.

I see your point, just let me ask you this.

Have you tried IE's quick tabs function (ctrl+q)? Quote: : And also won't ever be coming to the Mac.

Ah yes I did not think about OSX, Linux's market share is so low they can be ignored.

Like many people I don't understand why Google would bother doing this instead of just releasing a few more official Google plug-ins for Firefox.

I'm just enjoying some of the irony here about how supposedly MS is always copying OSX or playing catch up to IE and now Google is copying IE8.

The only thing that would surprise me more than Chrome is if the final version of IE8 was released for Windows & Mac.

09-02-2008, 06:44 AM I'll give it a look, but somehow I doubt it's going to pry me away from Safari.




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