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WSJ.com Forums :: View topic - When will democracy come to Cuba?
Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:24 am Post subject: When will democracy come to Cuba?
(3 ratings)
See related article: Fidel Castro Steps Down
Also, see the previous Question of the Day: On business trips, what's most important to you in an airline?
guidelines .
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Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:50 am Post subject: Re: When will democracy come to Cuba?
(23 ratings)
You mean American style with free-market concepts?.
Forget it, no matter Castro Brothers are in power or somebody else.
There may not be rich class or middle class in Cuba, but the ordinary people with free medical care, free education, job security is reasonably well satisfied and is not likely to rebel.
The only way American Style Democracy will come to Cuba if US supports a coup (or another Bay-of-Pigs type of invasion by Miami cubans);
And that is not likely to happen;
It will make all Latin American countries angry;
Already we have many anti-american presidents in Latin America.
We have literally no friends left in Latin America.
To americans, Cuba is an obsession without ever understanding what that obsession is about.
Once Castro Brothers are dead, US will forget about Cuba completely even if communists stay in power in Cuba.
I rather expect US to become increasingly undemocratic with time ;
It started long time ago but has picked up speed with Bush/Cheney regime and there does not seem to be any concern either by the political parties or the press (especially Rupert press or even NYT) or even by the academia except a few cries in wilderness.
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Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:58 am Post subject: Re: When will democracy come to Cuba?
(10 ratings)
There might be some small changes, but no wholesale changes, because Raul is still in charge, and I bet Fidel will still be holding his marionette strings.
I agree with Romesh, too.
They have a pretty good health care system, as third world countries go, and the population is very well educated.
They have a culture of wanting education.
Bring in American style capitalism, and you lose that;
You get a culture of wanting more stuff.
My hope is that whoever the next president is will open up trade and travel with Cuba.
The hard line anti-Castro emigres in Cuba are dying out, the second generation does not have the same obsession.
Opening up the country will benefit us with another country to have economic relations with, and more people to visit here and spend money.
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Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 12:14 pm Post subject: Re: When will democracy come to Cuba?
(15 ratings)
Romesh and Ridge.
I would love to think that you guys are a microcosm of the ignorance that permiates in this country of USA.
However, your comment about great free medical health care in Cuba automatically casts a shadow of simpathy towards the regime.
Fidel was/is a ruthless, mass murderer communist dictactor, see Stalin.
To refer to him as a President is an insult to all Cubans who have suffered for 5 decades.
Recently a Ivy league medical student went to Cuba to document that great heath care system you mentioned.
She soon realized that it was a lie, and almost died after a case of mileria.
Her extremist left wing educators did not believe, did not approve of her findings upon her arrival.
As a result, they delayed her graduation for almost an year.
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Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 12:28 pm Post subject: Re: When will democracy come to Cuba?
(16 ratings)
Romesh and Carol you are living in lala land.
You are sipping on your cafe lattes and living a luxury life of American Capitalism and have no clue about the life of an average Cuban.
Next one in power will be Raul younger brother!
As for free medical care, free education and free job security if it's that good Romesh why don't your move to Cuba?.
A Doctor in Cuba makes less then $200 per month and has to do other "work" to afford a life in Cuba.
If people are so satisfied why are people risking their lives in a little boat to come to U.S.
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Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 12:29 pm Post subject: Re: When will democracy come to Cuba?
(7 ratings)
When you say democracy, do you mean a healthy democracy by Western standards?
Latin American? Or like our allies like Afhanistan, and Pakistan, and Iraq?
"Democracy" as a description of a form of state is a very fungible term....
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Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 12:34 pm Post subject: Re: When will democracy come to Cuba?
(11 ratings)
Micheal Moore thinks Canada and Cuba have a great health care system.
I live in Canada and Micheal Moore view on the health care of Canada is a complete propaganda.
Unfortuantly the masses have bought his lies.
To get hip surgery in Canada you better wait for a year, 4 Million Canadians cannot find a Doctor.
Sure we have "free" health care but taxes for person making $100k is 50%.
The waiting lines are so long that you will die before getting the "FREE" Medical care!
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Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 12:38 pm Post subject: Re: When will democracy come to Cuba?
(2 ratings)
As long as a Castro is in power democracy will not occur so we must wait for Raul's death or another revolution.
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Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 12:57 pm Post subject: Re: When will democracy come to Cuba?
(12 ratings)
Joeluba:
Guess what?
I am on Medicare -- that is free health care in US.
But you won't find me sympathetic to US system and its policies.
By the way, I am also on Social Security too.
Even that won't make me change my mind.
By your post, your ignorance of the issues is obvious and does not require any comments.
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Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 12:58 pm Post subject: Re: When will democracy come to Cuba?
(5 ratings)
Carol and Romesh may well be painting a picture much rosier of Cuba than reality will allow, but one thing is for certain - had this stupid isolation of Cuba ended years ago, Castro would have been out of power by now, that is, if things down there are really as bad as some believe them to be.
I've never been to Cuba;
I only know what I read in National Geographic and other sources.
I do know that if the American way of life is so wonderful, it would have supplanted Castro's "dream" in short order.
Instead, we kept a blockade that only we, the USA, has honored as the rest of the world deals with Cuba.
We have been trading for some years now with Vietnam, a country where 55,000+ of our people lost their lives in conflict.
We trade in abandon with Communist China (I prefer the proper term, COMMUNIST ) to the benefit of the Walton family and other retailers of Chinese junk (which I feel will be the main beneficiaries of the upcoming, so-called tax rebate, which we'll be taxed on).
If Raul is smart, he'll negotiate a WalMart to be built in Havana - that'll get the wheels moving.
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Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 1:06 pm Post subject: Re: When will democracy come to Cuba?
(13 ratings)
Well, when US controlled Cuba (since 1901) and especially under Batista, Cuban standard of living was terrible.
Under Castro, it has improved a lot (free medical care and free education), though a lot more is desired.
So, under US control ( Batista was our dictator in residence in Cuba ), our democracy did not help the ordinary cubans, it only helped the small middle class and gangster class (which ran casinos and gambling halls, narcotics and prostitution).
Cuban revolution was for the ordinary people, not the rich and the mighty or even the middle class;
And the ordinary people has no problem with the system;
Only the yankees have problem with the system.
I did think of moving to Cuba, but found weather there to be terrible (too muggy, too many hurricanes -- certainly not the fault of the revolution) and decided against it.
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Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 1:09 pm Post subject: Re: When will democracy come to Cuba?
(10 ratings)
Your comment shows that all you are interested in is making money.
Doctors (especially the specialists) in US making ton of money -- is that good;
I don't think so;
I certainly don't like paying US doctors these kinds of money for their services.
Do you. Oh, you live in Canada.
Try talking to a US doctor for treating cold;
The bill is likely to be $100, tests extra and medicines extra;
Just ask any Canadian who would like to pay these kinds of bills?
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Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 1:14 pm Post subject: Re: When will democracy come to Cuba?
(11 ratings)
If the medical system in Canada is terrible, then why don't the people in Canada rise up;
After all it is a democratic country and have free and fair and very frequent elections.
Because they have not risen up for the last 40 years (that Canadian system has been around), Canadians must be satisfied with their medical system.
Let the poor Canadian come to US and try to get medical services;
They will prefer to go back.
Poor people in US will love Canadian medical system;
It is the rich and the insurance companies and the drug companies who love the US system.
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Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 1:18 pm Post subject: Re: When will democracy come to Cuba?
(6 ratings)
Romesh, Your name sound East Indian, why did your parents or you for a fact immigrated to U.S rather then Cuba?
Your parents moved to U.S because of a chance to succeed and create wealth, if you were in Cuba you would be working as inservitude labour on some sugarcane plantation!
As for Cuba's revolution it has benefited the elite of Cuban Society, How much is Castro Worth?
Forbes estimated in the $800M U.S range.
A lot of people think Cuba is an egalitarian society and are very wrong about it.
"Well, when US controlled Cuba (since 1901) and especially under Batista, Cuban standard of living was terrible.
Under Castro, it has improved a lot (free medical care and free education), though a lot more is desired."
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Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 2:01 pm Post subject: Re: When will democracy come to Cuba?
(2 ratings)
I can remember when people used to fly down to Cuba for a holiday and Ricky Ricardo wasn't a refugee.
I am utterly amazed that Castro lived long enough to retire.
I don't think any soviet dictator got to do that while still a dictator.
Dictator has been like pope, a lifetime job.
Yet I saw in Castro a few years back, when standing in deference to John Paul II, that something had gone out of him.
One gets the feeling that his soul is dead, the revolution has become rusty establishment.
One wonders if Raul without the cult of charisma Castro had, can withstand the change, and one fears the prospect of Cuban democracy comes with the danger of an Hispanic Putin hidden in some rhetorical cloak.
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