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"Le Roy A Paris", Porcelain w/Figures QUESTIONS - National Association of Watch and Clock Collectors Message Board

Hello, I am new to your forum and feel sure I can get some information from you all, because you are so knowledgeable ! My mother gave me this clock for Christmas.

Do you have any any clues on where I could find out more about it.

She saw a similar clock 25 years ago, in an antique store in Colorado, priced at $3,500.00.

That clock was not quite as big and there were different figures on top. My father bought it from an old woman, in need of money while we were living in Paris in the early 50's.

She said it had been in her family for as long as she could remember.

I would love to know how old it is, and if it is a Sevres or a Vincennes.

I would also like to know who the figures are.

My father was told they are "Solomon and Rebecca".

I have not been able to find any information about those two names together.

He had the pendulum replaced by a watch repairman, but he used an old pocket watch case with lead solder to weigh it down.

I would love to find a replacement pendulum for it, that fits more with it's style and age.

I think it is "silk strung" from what I have read. Any information you could provide, would be greatly appreciated.

I do not intend to sell it, as it has sentimental value to our family, and reminds me of our time in Paris. The link to numerous photos is: http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/...56758233EjOnLQ Each photo can be enlarged and my descriptions are on each photo, as well as dimensions.

My photography skills are not as good as yours, but hopefully clear enough for you to give me some ideas. Sincerely, Judy - Austin, Tx.

Hi Newbie-Judy! Welcome to the forum.

I'm in and out of the forum, not on a regular basis, but I'm a little surprised my old clock buddies have not welcomed you with all the appropriate welcoming fanfare I'm not one of the sages on this forum, but I love your clock!

It is really beautiful.

I am only knowlegable enough to say it's French.

I went right to your photos, and then I read your entire message - duh!

It's French. I would not say the figures are Solomon and Rebecca.

They don't have anything to do with each other in the Bible.

There was a great deal of popularity in the near East in the 1800's, and this came out in the art.

The harem was quite popular, and I believe it is just a harem scene that is depicted here.

I believe the sages can give a better time and pin this date down for you.

They will probably tell me I'm wrong.

However, Rebecca was a long time before Solomon.

He would not have been represented in Turkish garb either. Regarding your clock, I'm not qualified to comment on make, date, etc.

I make esthetic comments.

Perhaps Missy will be here soon. Welcome again.

Love having you Glad to have you visit the clock forum.

Hi Cynthia, Thank you for the warm welcome.

I'm sure everyone is really busy getting back to "normal" after the holidays.

I don't feel like I will ever catch up! No wonder I couldn't find anything on Solomon and Rebecca, since they were of different time periods...

Duh... You say you make esthetic comments, however you seem really knowledgeable to me.

I had no idea that "he" was in Turkish garb, or that there was popularity of the near East in the 1800's. I did some research on "Le Roy", and he seemed to make most of his clocks in the early to mid 1700's.

Since the clock doesn't say "Le Roy et Fils" I guess it could have been before he had his sons join the company.

"Workshop of Julien Le Roy (French, 1686–1759)" I too love the clock, although it is a bit "richly decorated" for my taste.

Nonetheless, I will treasure it, and hope to have it appraised so that I know if I should add it to our insurance policy. I would really like to find a replacement pendulum for it, as the one my father had made is really ugly.

It was running when we moved back to the U.S.

In the early 60's, but the movers removed the pendulum, and I don't know how to reattach it.

I think it is silk strung, and the silk threads are broken.

CLUELESS I should probably take it to a clock repairman here in Austin, and have it professionally cleaned and tuned.

Does anyone know of a reputable clock man in Austin, TX? In addition, the glass (when put inside the dial's door) doesn't allow the door to close fully.

It doesn't snap shut.

Does anyone know if the glass should be mounted outside the dial door, and needs some kind of retainer ring??

Perhaps it too, is a poor replacement??

I have no way of knowing because my father passed away when I was 18, and my mom doesn't remember.

(A long time ago!

Lol) I will also be posting questions about two other clocks I own.

One is an antique mystery maple wall clock, and the other was my grandmother's black forest coo coo clock.

Both are lovely too and neither one runs.

The story of my life.... Thanks again for the lovely welcome and information.

I too, look forward to the forum "sages" giving me some clues on this and my other clocks.

I also have found that clock collecting can become quite addicting!

I will need to keep that under control, if I expect to stay married!

LOL Sincerely, Judy - Austin, TX

Hi, Judy, welcome to the message board.

According to Baillie's Watchmakers and Clockmakers of the World, there were a number of "Le Roy"s in Paris around the 1820's, one of which likely made your clock. Yes, you should have it appraised and serviced by a qualified serviceman.

A more appropriate pendulum wouldn't be difficult to find, although the original would have been better. The silk thread isn't difficult to replace, and likely the movement will only need cleaning and lubricating. Harold

Hi Judy, as Harold says, there were many clock makers by the name of le Roy, so accurately dating it will be difficult. Regarding the porcelain case, the Vincennes manufacturing operations moved to Sevres in 1756, but I am unable to tell you if the case was made in either location.

It was, however, normal to have the maker's, designer's or decorator's mark applied in underglaze cobalt blue prior to firing, so your best option may be to try and identify the small blue glaze mark on the base, which may provide an indication as to when it was made.

If you can post a larger image of this mark or a freehand drawing of this mark, it may be possible to identify it.

That said, it may not be Sevres but another maker. Lofty

Hello Harold & Lofty, I will try to magnify the mark on the bottom of the figures so that you can better see it.

That said, I am also not sure what the "L" looking indention "perhaps initial" is on the base of the figures either.

Does that help?? I will try to take a photograph of that too, and I will remove the blank sticky label, maybe there is something under that?? I really appreciate your responses, and look forward to finding out more about this very special (to me) clock. Take care and I will repost again soon, Sincerely, Judy - Austin, TX

Hi Judy, I too welcome you to the board.

Sorry I haven't been able to reply till now.

I have been busy pulling my hair out because of computer problems. Your clock immediately caught my eye because I have one similar.

I have done a lot of research for information.

Here are some things I found out about mine.

They may or may not apply to yours. I was told this was an 1850's "Old Paris Porcelain" Rococo Revival style porcelain clock.

I was hoping it was done by Jacob Petit who owned one of the most important and well-known porcelain factories in France producing Rococo-style wares during the 1840's.

He always marked his work with a blue JP under the case.

Mine did not have it.

Many porcelain factories copied his style.

The D under yours may be the potter's mark. In my search, I have seen about 3-4 different statues.

One of a seated Turkish Sultan, one of a Sultan on a horse and a man and women.

The statues are works of art in themselves. Mine is missing the back cover and does not have a glass.

It doesn't show any sign of ever having a hinge.

They may have had a dome covering. If you remove the bell, you may find something stamped there.

That is where I found mine was made by L.

Japy. (Just don't drop the screw!!) The pendulum is original as it is stamped 714 as is the movement.

I looked through my old clock parts catalogs, but didn't see it.

The ones shown had a different hook attachment.

If you take it to a repair shop, they may be able to get you one. Do come back with your questions about your other clocks.

WARNING: This is addictive!!!! Cynthia, don't be such a stranger.

I miss your posts and I am beginning to feel like the "lone (female) ranger". Missy

<BLOCKQuote: class="ip-ubbcode-Quote: "><div class="ip-ubbcode-Quote: -title">Quote: :</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-Quote: -content">Originally posted by Newbie-Judy: Hi Missy, WOW!

WOW!! WOW!!! Your clock looks so much like mine!

The mold for the base of our clocks look identical.

The figures are obviously different, but of the same style and the painting are a bit different, but very close. I will look for the JP under the case, but chances are, it isn't on mine either.

I think that the statues are magnificent and the glaze/decoration and details are a work of art in themselves. I did remove the bell, and all I found was a 5 on one side of a pin with a nail thingie running through it and a 2 on the other side of it, so I guess that means 52.

Nothing else, that I could see.

I did drop the screw, and it was a pain getting it out from behind the works!

LOL Now, I remove the bell with the clock standing up! Just from reading all the recent posts, I realize that this could become VERY ADDICTIVE!

It gets my "collecting" juices flowing!!

I had to give up my Reuge music box and my Chinese snuff bottle collections because my husband thought they had become addictive.

Now, here I am interested in clocks Ouch!

More trouble ahead Poor John! I am a jeweler by trade, and love beautiful works of art, no matter the form or material!

Especially finely crafted or detailed works, in all media.

Champagne taste with a beer budget....

LOL! I am still hoping that someone on the forum will have a replacement, 6" - silk strung pendulum that they will sell me.

If not, hopefully I can find a good repairman here in Austin to get the job done. I know that we are not allowed to get estimates of the values of our clocks, but are you allowed to tell me what your clock is valued at?

Or, is it rude for me to even ask?

I really don't know all the proper forum regulations yet.

But, am willing to learn, and don't mean to offend or break any rules. Thanks again for sharing your information and the wonderful photos of your clock.

I am excited to learn more. Take care and I'll hang in here, Judy - Austin, TX </div></BLOCKQuote: >

<BLOCKQuote: class="ip-ubbcode-Quote: "><div class="ip-ubbcode-Quote: -title">Quote: :</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-Quote: -content">Originally posted by Missy: Mine is missing the back cover and does not have a glass.

It doesn't show any sign of ever having a hinge.

They may have had a dome covering. </div></BLOCKQuote: > It will not have had a glass or bezel, and will have been covered with a dome, Missy. <BLOCKQuote: class="ip-ubbcode-Quote: "><div class="ip-ubbcode-Quote: -title">Quote: :</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-Quote: -content"> If you remove the bell, you may find something stamped there.

That is where I found mine was made by L.

Japy. (Just don't drop the screw!!) </div></BLOCKQuote: > Don't remove the screw - the bell has a large nut on it.

Remove that, but use a tissue to handle any parts of the movement as fingerprints will etch into the highly polished brass. <BLOCKQuote: class="ip-ubbcode-Quote: "><div class="ip-ubbcode-Quote: -title">Quote: :</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-Quote: -content"> The pendulum is original as it is stamped 714 as is the movement.

I looked through my old clock parts catalogs, but didn't see it.

The ones shown had a different hook attachment.

If you take it to a repair shop, they may be able to get you one. Missy </div></BLOCKQuote: > It is easy to make one, if any clockmaker is worth his salt!

Hour's job. HTH

Hi Judy, You are correct about not giving estimates of value on this board.

I have never had my clock appraised, so I really do not know the value.

If you do a search on the web for Old Paris Porcelain Clock, you will see 3 or 4 for sell.

That will give you an idea.

A lot depends on condition, originality and working order. My clock is very special to me because my parents brought it back from Greece for me.

My mother carried it her lap all the way.

They are both gone now, so it is a reminder of them. We are waiting for questions on your other clocks.

I will not know anything about them, but there are plenty of experts here that will.

I only knew a little about this one because of my research on mine. Enjoy your clocks, Missy P.S.

Here is another example of this type clock




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