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Red Sox and King Felix? - Sons of Sam Horn
Mcadam on the baseball show said they went hard after Hernandez until midnight Thursday but didn't want to jeopardize other moves.
He also said that they will try to revisit this in the offseason.
I can't imagine the package for him.
It would start at the Adrian Gonzalez level and go up from there.
Is he worth it?
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Nick Carfardo mentions in the Extra Bases portion of the Globe online that Epstein has always "coveted" King Felix.
I was at that forum a few years ago when Epstein was asked which players he would start a franchise with.
Remember that this was the time of Epstein's *sabbatical* when he wasn't officially GM of the Sox.
He mentioned Miguel Cabrera as the hitter and Felix Hernandez as the pitcher.
At the time Felix was still a rookie.
I wold not be surprised to see Epstein go back after Felix in the off season.
We have the prospects to get him.
Extra Bases
This post has been edited by Jim Gosger : Today, 08:45 AM
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Can someone explain the part where the Mariners have any compelling reason to trade Hernandez?
They're not a terribly poor ballclub (unless their financials have changed since last I paid attention, which is possible), and any prospects they get back are not gonna be that much younger than Hernandez.
I mean, they'll listen to offers I'm sure, but I don't see why they'd trade him away.
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Quote: Can someone explain the part where the Mariners have any compelling reason to trade Hernandez?
They're not a terribly poor ballclub (unless their financials have changed since last I paid attention, which is possible), and any prospects they get back are not gonna be that much younger than Hernandez.
I mean, they'll listen to offers I'm sure, but I don't see why they'd trade him away.
Because if they feel they can't sign him long term then they should seek the best deal.
Hernandez is going to command a Santana like contract.
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Quote: Because if they feel they can't sign him long term then they should seek the best deal.
Hernandez is going to command a Santana like contract.
Have there been rumblings that they're not going to be able to keep him?
Seattle's not Minnesota, last time I looked they were a top-ten, $100M+ payroll ballclub.
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Quote: Have there been rumblings that they're not going to be able to keep him?
Seattle's not Minnesota, last time I looked they were a top-ten, $100M+ payroll ballclub.
They're right around an even $100m this year, and their trend lines don't indicate a willingness to go higher.
Felix is going to be a $20m+ per year guy, so you're talking about committing 20% of your payroll to one guy.
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From Cot's Contracts:
Quote: Felix Hernandez rhp
1 year/$3.8M (2009)
1 year/$3.8M (2009) re-signed 1/19/09 (avoided arbitration) award bonus: $50,000 for All Star ($25,000 for selection) 1 year/$0.54M (2008) 1 year/$0.42M (2007) renewed by Seattle 3/07 1 year/$0.34M (2006) renewed by Seattle 3/06 1 year (2005) contract purchased 8/05 signed as amateur free agent from Venezuela 7/02 $0.71M signing bonus agent: Alan Nero, CSMG ML service: 3.060 So this offseason is Arb Year 2, and he'll be a free agent after 2011.
The Mariners would try like hell to avoid arb.
His number this offseason goes up to what...
$6M? As said previously above, he's someone you build your franchise your around, and as long as Seattle thinks it's on the bubble, they're not going to move him.
They have a loyal following, an amazing TV contract, and cash to spend.
I don't see him going anywhere until June 2011 at the earliest.
If any team can get him before then, the Mariners would have to 1) Pittsburgh themselves or 2) be completely overwhelmed by an offer.
That said, I'd love King Felix in a Sox uni.
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Quote: From Cot's Contracts:
[/list]So this offseason is Arb Year 2, and he'll be a free agent after 2011.
The Mariners would try like hell to avoid arb.
His number this offseason goes up to what...
$6M? As said previously above, he's someone you build your franchise your around, and as long as Seattle thinks it's on the bubble, they're not going to move him.
They have a loyal following, an amazing TV contract, and cash to spend.
I don't see him going anywhere until June 2011 at the earliest.
If any team can get him before then, the Mariners would have to 1) Pittsburgh themselves or 2) be completely overwhelmed by an offer.
That said, I'd love King Felix in a Sox uni.
McAdam seems to think theo laid the groundwork for December or next July.
This could be next year's Roy Halladay along with possibly Halladay himself.
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I love this apparent effort to sell high on Buchholz and bolster our only real advantage over AL East competition.
I love it short term and long.
It certainly wasn't necessary but demonstrates our FO is always thinking, always trying.
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A couple of notable things from his wiki page :
King Felix was said to be interested in Seattle because of his idol and fellow countrymen Freddy Garcia.
Scouts started following him at age 14.
He was dialling it up to 94 at that young age.
At 19 years and 118 days old, he became the youngest MLB pitcher since Jose Rijo in 1984.
Looking quickly at his pitchfx page one thing that kinda stands out is his velocity.
Each of his pitches is down this year and trending down since his entry into the league.
Probably more to do with the harnesing of his filthy stuff more than anything.
His 2009 K, BB and HR rates are all better than his already impressive career marks.
Well any-ways, a definate stud this one is.
I think it was in 2007, during Drews first year in Boston when King Felix was facing off against Daisuke (i believe) and Hernandez took a no hit bid deep into a game at Fenway.
Drew ended up breaking it up, but if my memory serves me correctly, after the game, the always confident Pedroia even sounded dejected in describing the filth that Felix brings.
This post has been edited by Adirondack jack : Today, 11:33 AM
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I had heard on EEI last night that they had offered six players for Felix, and Seattle turned them away.
Any truth behind it?
I'm not sure, they never gave a source.
But that's what they were putting onto their airwaves.
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Quote: I love this apparent effort to sell high on Buchholz and bolster our only real advantage over AL East competition.
I love it short term and long.
It certainly wasn't necessary but demonstrates our FO is always thinking, always trying.
I do hope they haven't missed out on that opportunity.
Hopefully Clay can have a big second half and really peak that value heading into the offseason.
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Quote: Well any-ways, a definate stud this one is.
I think it was in 2007, during Drews first year in Boston when King Felix was facing off against Daisuke (i believe) and Hernandez took a no hit bid deep into a game at Fenway.
Drew ended up breaking it up, but if my memory serves me correctly, after the game, the always confident Pedroia even sounded dejected in describing the filth that Felix brings.
Yes, this was Dice-K's first start at Fenway.
I don't think I've ever seen a pitcher look more unhittable in person than Felix that day.
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Interesting article on the Felix-Sox talks yesterday:
Quote: Here is the key element of the story, which begins with a Quote: from Red Sox GM Theo Epstein .
"We engaged, in previous days, we had some things working, things we were really excited about, and a couple that got really close, but didn't happen,'' Epstein said.
"That's par for the course in deadline season.
We shot big on a couple things, a deal that could provide maximum impact.
We were very aggressive in use of our own prospects, those deals got close .
. . Maybe the foundation is laid for the offseason.''
Epstein didn't elaborate on what those deals were, but the Red Sox were very much involved in trying to acquire Padres All-Star first baseman Adrian Gonzalez , Seattle righthander Felix Hernandez , Indians lefthander Cliff Lee , who was traded to Philadelphia, and to a lesser degree, Roy Halladay.
Toronto GM J.P. Ricciardi said the Sox did not come back with a last-minute package, but they were never willing to surrender reliever Daniel Bard .
Epstein said one deal required five or six prospects, but the pieces didn't quite fit.
The Mariners listened to a half-dozen offers for Hernandez, but elected not to trade one of the best young, established pitchers in baseball.
Epstein has always coveted Hernandez, once naming him when asked at a charity event a few years back which player he would start a team with."
Now, on that list, there are really only two players -- Hernandez and Gonzalez -- who would have required the type of package Epstein is talking about.
We know that because of what was offered for Halladay and what Lee's pricetag was.
If you notice, three of the names belonged to pitchers.
Boston did want to add a starter badly.
So, was Hernandez the guy the five-or-six player package would have been needed for?
Sounds like what a Hernandez starting point should be.
Look what Erik Bedard fetched.
Epstein says he got really close on a couple of deals.
If he's talking about Hernandez, which the story seems to imply, then that means the Mariners were more than passive listeners here.
But again, for now, there's a whole lot of smoke but no real fire in sight...yet.
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Quote: If you notice, three of the names belonged to pitchers.
Boston did want to add a starter badly.
I hope Theo never tires of his work -- or if he does, that he is succeeded by someone similarly inspired.
To appreciate this fully requires, I think, living through magnificently talented RS teams of the last three decades, notably the 70s, falling short.
Falling short most times because they never had quite enough pitching.
Falling short some times because they never had quite enough depth.
By historical standards, the 2009 Red Sox club is among the most pitching rich.
Still, the FO gets it and wanted to add.
This post has been edited by dcmissle : Today, 05:16 PM
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Quote: I hope Theo never tires of his work -- or if he does, that he is succeeded by someone similarly inspired.
To appreciate this fully requires, I think, living through magnificently talented RS teams of the last three decades, notably the 70s, falling short.
Falling short most times because they never had quite enough pitching.
Falling short some times because they never had quite enough depth.
By historical standards, the 2009 Red Sox club is among the most pitching rich.
Still, the FO gets it and wanted to add.
Sometimes those 70s teams simply fell short because there was no wild card but to be fair those 70s teams never won the games they HAD to win against NY, while the '04 team DID, but your point is very well taken.
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