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The Society -> First Life
MMORPGs. I, like most, have been tempted, but on reflection I just fail to see the point in the wider scheme of things.
Computer gaming as a pastime/hobby is acceptable - certainly streets ahead of sitting prone in front of the TV, and as part of a balanced lifestyle I can't see it being anything other than beneficial.
But MMORPGs seem to play to a different series of emotions than more casual engagement with most forms of gaming.
Why are they so addicitve?
Usually it's the same lines trotted out time and time again - "they allow me to do stuff I couldn't in the real world";
"they allow me to escape from the mundanity of the real world" etc etc....
Well here's a newsflash - the mundanity of your own world is defined by you .
If you hate your life, you have the power to change it.
Bad job? Get another one.
Not got the skill?
Get them. Hate your partner?
Dump them. Don't like your body?
Go to the gym. Need a sense of community?
Try looking around occasionally.
All the time you plough into grinding your character in a virtual space is time wasted that could be used to answer your deep seated cravings in the real world.
You see players with a wife/child/partner who would rather spend the time living in a virtual space.
What does that say about them?
What sort of twisted version of the world have we got when people can spend thousand of hours building communities in virtual worlds while their own locality falls into disrepair;
Their own family is ignored;
Their own future becomes a dead-end?
Forget Second Life.
How about First Life?
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This is exactly how I see it as well.
I'm tempted by the idea of MMORPGs, but the practice?
Nah. I've actually got too much that I value in RL to risk it in grinding levels;
And if I want to arrange some sort of group activity I'll phone some friends and sort something out.
I think the move towards online gaming could see me dragging my feet in upgrading to newer hardware.
I might even end up being an exclusively retro player at some point in the future.
Which is another neat way of rationalising why I'm keeping all of those games I haven't completed.
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People (mainly men) have always spent stupid amounts of time putting ships in bottles, tinkering with the car, reading books, gardening
levelling up their orcs.
Invading Poland.
MMORPGs just make RPG's more in keeping with the original paper-based RPG ethos.
Those sort of RPG's have always had small but fanatical followers - computers make them easier to get involved with.
The whole Norman Tebbit "get on your bike" rhetoric doesn't deal with the fact that no matter where you are in life you'll enjoy escapism.
Some more than others.
I wouldn't even bother *improving* my life so as to take away the need to roll a J and play some action RPG for twelve hours straight for no real reason other than to get my stats up.
Dad's off the allotment/World Of Warcraft.
He'll be out all day.
My Dad used to carve wood and spend weekends in his darkroom or just hibernate in his study with a set of books he had from the library.
Hardly a hanging offence though by some standpoint you could say that he was never around that much.
Not sad. Not that much different.
Mum was generally in the kitchen.
Now that's pretty sad.
But the food was nice.
I'm very interested in MMORPGs, I just have MTV fingers when it comes to playing games and pick n' mix rather than play one game through, then another.
The idea of a constant world is pretty cool, though.
If they are as rewarding as I'd imagine (an RPG with a greater social aspect - a bit like chatrooms) then sure - I'd rather play one than regrout a bathroom.
Neglecting your kids in favour of a game isn't new.
My headmaster used to play Pac-Man (or rather a variant) all day long on the school's BBC Micro.
He'd actually stop the class and say, "come on over here boys, I'm about to get the grape."
Peace.
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Quote: no matter where you are in life you'll enjoy escapism.
Dis ting wot u said.
It true.
If I may, from the sounds of Cav talking about bad jobs, unskilled populace, partners they hate and disintegrating communities, he's suggesting that poor people who live in council houses shouldn't play MMORPGs.
Which, as an Elitist Snob, naturally I agree with.
Let's wait and hear from Felt, who really does play these kinds of games.
That's what Star Wars Galaxies is, right?
I've never played it, but I think it's one.
What appeals to me about MMORPGs, beyond the usual joy of gaming/online gaming, is that ongoing continuity of a living game world.
Sort of like the way the passage of time gives players a thrill when they've been away from Animal Crossing, but this time as a shared conscious experience with thousands of others.
Thing is, I'm not into monsters, spells or magic bracelets, so much of the genre is discounted.
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It's no secret that when I begin to feel the twinge of pessism, I scour ebay for RPG's.
I don't ever buy anything, but I like to feel I can prescribe Isolation without seeing a doctor.
There's a lot of psychoanalysis that could go into gamesplaying, genre preference etc - but we'd all be candidates for testing.
Everyone thinks Argh!
Is a gun nut. He isn't , but his games'd suggest so.
One of the definite buys for the 360 is going to be Oblivion - just so I can have a fuller understanding of what the new kit can do besides make things prettier, faster and more plentiful.
Whether I enjoy it is another thing, whether PGR3 makes me lose interest in sex is also another thing...
From a retail perspective, the people who buy MMORPG's are generally dwarven, orc like or plain anti-social by appearance.
One guy I work with plays ( WW2 Submarine Simulator ) Silent Hunter III in REALTIME .
Yup.
Me: "What did you do at the weekend Brian?"
Him: "I travelled from The Faroe Islands to Norway in Silent Hunter."
Me: "How long that take you?"
Him: "Long is not a measurement of time.
Length is a measurement of distance."
Me: "Did you see Big Brother at all....?"
I don't like generalisations myself, but when people have the LotR ring for a wedding band - you just know the honeymoon was spent levelling up.
4m3
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I don't know about others, but my fascination with them comes from my love of roleplaying games (which comes from my enjoyment of fantasy, which means that I mostly stick to the spells n' dragons side of roleplaying games).
I enjoy the open-endedness of mmorpgs and the shared experience with others, who I can either ignore or interact with at my discretion.
World of Warcraft is my current love -- I wouldn't call it an obsession, like some people have with the genre that play it at every free moment.
It's also not some "alternate life" either -- gaming simply isn't that sophisticated yet.
MMORPGs are going to have to get a lot more open-ended and allow many more options for me to consider it a true "second life"/alternate reality/escapist life.
Maybe I'm just insane, too.
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"Everyone thinks Argh!
Is a gun nut. He isn't , but his games'd suggest so."
His old collection of mock hardware and masks, on the other hand
We used to buy gun(s) together.
*weeps*
They're illegal now Arghh!
We had the best of it.
And I'd play Galaxies with you, but I'd be as reliable as I am on Live.
And I don't own a PC.
Still (beats heart, makes fist).
Anyway, the new Harry Potter book is out soon - so there's that to prepare for hating.
Geeks are fine, they have a point.
Explain to me Dido or anyone who spends hours getting ready for going out.
Life is short
You're on your deathbed and you look back over your it
Hmmm
Man, I was one mother of all Level 121 Grey Wizards but at least I didn't ever own, nor ever date anyone who owned a Dido album.
*sobs*
The idea that anyone can change their position by sheer force of will is pretty nazi, however.
And therefore I dig it.
Eat the poor, I say.
L8R.
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Quote: Dad's off the allotment/World Of Warcraft.
He'll be out all day.
This neither validates or challenges the core of the argument.
At least in the case of the allotment your Father created something physical, and tangible, with the hours of effort he put in.
But even if you equate this to the structures constructed in a virtual world, the core point of my argument is that I doubt your father percieved what he was doing as anyting other than escapism.
And escapism isn't what I'm challenging about MMORPGs, for computer gaming in general is escapism, and I'm all for that.
What I'm talking about is when the MMORPG is specifically used to apply emotional salve to what may be problems in their real life, or stand in for time/actions they should really be performing in the "real world".
The statement "MMORPGs allow me to do what I couldn't do in reality" is what I take issue with - without meaning to get Freudian - if it is genuinely the ability to fire magic missiles from your fingers that someone feels is missing in their life then I'm struggling for an argument, but if it's to be loved/admired (or whatever) then I am very much unimpressed.
Quote: "If I may, from the sounds of Cav talking about bad jobs, unskilled populace, partners they hate and disintegrating communities, he's suggesting that poor people who live in council houses shouldn't play MMORPGs."
Cheeky.
No, rich, poor, skilled, unskilled - an MMORPG shouldn't be a means by which you validate your own existence.
I remember the guy who bought a tract of land in Second Life for 45000 dollars (or whatever), and said it was his "only opportunity to own an island.
I never could in the real world".
Why? He now spends hours of his life administering a virtual island, populated by virtual people.
If he wanted a real island, how about spending that time to get one?
I've never particularly wanted an island myself, but if I did, I sure as hell wouldn't want a virtual one.
It's pointless. It's not even carving wood, or growing plants on an allotment.
It's nothing. It's owning a lump of code, in a server, somewhere in America.
That's not a Second Life.
That's no life at all.
4M3 - I'm not even sure if you agree or disagree.
Of course when feltmonkey arrives, that's when the arguments begin for real.
However - I would like to point out, I don't actually feel as strongly as I'm arguing about this, as the forum's practically stagnated, and I thought we needed to have a good ol' blarney about something.
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There really is no substitute for a father's love is there?
Keep working out those issues and we'll be here for you bud.
Quote: "Everyone thinks Argh!
Is a gun nut. He isn't , but his games'd suggest so."
His old collection of mock hardware and masks, on the other hand
We used to buy gun(s) together.
*weeps*
They're illegal now Arghh!
We had the best of it.
And I'd play Galaxies with you, but I'd be as reliable as I am on Live.
And I don't own a PC.
Still (beats heart, makes fist).
Anyway, the new Harry Potter book is out soon - so there's that to prepare for hating.
Geeks are fine, they have a point.
Explain to me Dido or anyone who spends hours getting ready for going out.
Life is short
You're on your deathbed and you look back over your it
Hmmm
Man, I was one mother of all Level 121 Grey Wizards but at least I didn't ever own, nor ever date anyone who owned a Dido album.
*sobs*
The idea that anyone can change their position by sheer force of will is pretty nazi, however.
And therefore I dig it.
Eat the poor, I say.
L8R.
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And an obsession with fatherhood - or dare I say FATHERLAND.
Eh? EH?
G, I could well be in California in a few weeks, could get a flight that stops off in Connecticut again - then we could paint each others toes and work on our New Kids routines.
Anyway, I'm off to kill untermensch/watch Batman.
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Quote: "Everyone thinks Argh!
Is a gun nut. He isn't , but his games'd suggest so."
His old collection of mock hardware and masks, on the other hand
I left my J-face mask on the wall of the guest bedroom last time my parents came to stay.
They never asked about it.
I felt too awkward to remove it, as if that would be drawing attention, so they continued to sleep under it.
Quote: G, I could well be in California in a few weeks, could get a flight that stops off in Connecticut again - then we could paint each others toes and work on our New Kids routines.
Love to see you, as always.
Your room is now bright orange;
We just painted. I believe bright orange is the color of those cells they put drunks in to sober them up, isn't it?
Ah well, you can sleep on the couch.
Airsoft illegal in Britain now?
It's only just taking off the US.
They've got hundreds of them on Amazon, FFS.
I was surfing a few prog metal albums and it comes up and says, 'did you know we stock a full range of Airsoft in our Sports and Outdoors section?'
Anyway, we best take this to email before we derail the convo.
Ahem.
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That's THE mask, isn't it?
Oooh, looks so less...
Well, threatening in that light.
I play MMORPGs.
But then, I play everything.
And most of my attempts at MMORPGs are perfect exhibits of my attention-span - a level 7 in Guild Wars, a level 16 in WoW, a level 23 in City Of Heroes.
Or perhaps it shows my lack of interest when I actually have to start paying...
Only Guild Wars stands out because it's free, but then Battlefield 2's out this Friday so I'm freeing up space in my life.
I do agree with much of what you're saying, Cav...
But then, there's also some of it that I think you're generalising just for the sake.
Get a new job - not the easiest thing, particularly if (like me) you've reached the point where any new job has to offer a certain level of wage in order for me to carry on living as I do (bathing in gold and setting fire to £20 just so I've got something to light my £50 notes with).
Other things also cost money - I'm disgusted with the weight I've put on, for instance, but don't have the cash to pay for a gym.
Or nights out to the pub on a regular basis.
Or high-class friends, for that matter.
I see your point, of course.
I really do. But much as my life's not exactly riveting...
Well, I kind of put up with it.
I'd love to 'kick it up a notch' and 'bam' my existence, but short of moving to New York and living in a studio apartment in the Village, I reckon I could deal with it how it is.
Full of games.
Sad.
Yes.
EDIT: I think I lost the point I was trying to make somewhere near the end.
Sorry about that.
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Quote: I see your point, of course.
I really do. But much as my life's not exactly riveting...
Well, I kind of put up with it.
I'd love to 'kick it up a notch' and 'bam' my existence, but short of moving to New York and living in a studio apartment in the Village, I reckon I could deal with it how it is.
Full of games.
Sad.
Yes.
EDIT: I think I lost the point I was trying to make somewhere near the end.
Sorry about that.
I was trying to be overly argumentative just to drum up discussion.
But, I don't think you really have anything to be that concerned about - it's obvious that MMORPGs for you don't form the cornerstone of your emotional well-being.
Playing games for a living?
Sounds good to me.
I'd be happy if I was you.
If you genuinely did feel a great urge to move to New York and live the sitcom lifestyle, then would you rather:
1) Spend 1000 hours creating a fictitious version of the Big Apple in Second Life.
2) Spend 1000 hours actually working out a way of doing it for real?
No brainer really.
PS: Remember, you don't have to go to the gym to lose weight - try walking/cycling to work, or swim a few evenings in the week.
Doesn't work for me - I cycle about 100 miles a week, but just eat more as I figure I can get away with it....
Dammit.
PPS: Talking of happy - did anyone see the cover of the Scottish Metro today?
Can anyone explain what sort of bloke possibly would do what that bloke did considering 1) what he looks like 2) what his loving wife looks like 3) what Jodie Marsh looks like?
There's a man who needs an MMORPG in his life as it's (his life)obviously wasted on him.
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Quote: no matter where you are in life you'll enjoy escapism.
Quote: Geeks are fine, they have a point.
Explain to me Dido or anyone who spends hours getting ready for going out.
Life is short
You're on your deathbed and you look back over your it
Hmmm
Man, I was one mother of all Level 121 Grey Wizards but at least I didn't ever own, nor ever date anyone who owned a Dido album.
once more, will proves himself to be about as eloquent as it is possible for a puny human to be.
I could start on about how i agree with these sentiments, but i know what you're waiting for.
Quote: Let's wait and hear from Felt, who really does play these kinds of games.
That's what Star Wars Galaxies is, right?
I've never played it, but I think it's one.
yup, i was right.
so yeah, i play Star Wars Galaxies, a MMORPG.
I was sucked in by the fact that it is star wars, and even more by a mate of mine badgering, haranguing, practically begging me to join him and his mates online by giving it a go.
and that is one thing that cav has seemingly forgotten in his lambasting of the time people spend in these virtual worlds - you're not alone.
There are other people, real people there.
You chat, you interact, it's a social thing.
Yes, they're mainly men, and some of them are a bit strange, but hell - that describes my real life friends too.
In fact, due to a cardiff-based clique based around the GAME store my mate used to work in, i've made many real-life friends through the game.
We went go-karting a while ago.
I was fast, but not fast enough to win, and i slammed a girl into the wall and made her squeal.
and another thing.
It's just a game, same as all the others we pour time into.
It's not all grinding, not by a long shot.
Speaking of SWG alone, it is easily, easily the most varied game i've ever played.
One reason people sink so much time into these things is the sheer amount of different things to do.
80 hours doing the same thing over and over again in FFX, or 80 hours in SWG talking to people, doing a bit of fighting, buying and decorating a house, flying an x-wing and shooting tie fighters, embarking on quests, seeing sights, generally goofing around dressed in a pair of hotpants?
I know which i'd choose.
Despite the monthly sub, SWG has saved me money on games because i never get that "bored with all my games, must buy more" feeling any more.
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide...
« only last night i strolled into a cantina unarmed and dressed only in boxer shorts and "brandished my weapon" at another player.
They asked me if i wanted to help them with a quest.
Why ask the guy in his pants?
I declined.
but...
you do have a point.
These games are worryingly addictive, and can take over your life.
I recently found out that my store manager (a guy in his late 40s with a family) was a hardcore everquest and EQ2 player.
He had to quit or face the consequences from his wife.
He said that quitting was harder than quitting smoking.
i personally have sometimes found it hard to have nights off from galaxies.
That's approaching problem levels, i reckon.
A weird thing is where i find myself happy to carry out mundane tasks in-game, but hate doing the same in real life.
Once, i spent an hour in-game happily rearanging my furnature in my house, but when ilweran interupted me to do basically the same thing in real life, boy did i grizzle.
Well, maybe i would have been more enthusiastic if we'd been arranging the best place to put a huge fuck-off trophy that proved that i was THE DON at hunting banthas.
so in conclusion, and by way of a reward to those who are still reading this ramble, i would say that fantasy worlds are pretty normal and healthy, but living in there all the time?
Not as much so.
btw, i love cav's naive assertation that it is possible for us plebs to actually change our lives in any way.
"hey, want to buy an island?
Go on an IT training course and join a gym - you'll be drinking coconut milk on the beach by christmas!"
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Quote: btw, i love cav's naive assertation that it is possible for us plebs to actually change our lives in any way.
"hey, want to buy an island?
Go on an IT training course and join a gym - you'll be drinking coconut milk on the beach by christmas!"
Ah.
But you see that's what seperates 99.9% of the population from the people who actually believe they could (and do) do exactly that.
Might not happen overnight;
Might take an element of luck, but it 's entirely possible.
I'm 29, and if I sold all my worldly assets, with the resulting cash I could probably buy an island.
Somewhere on the planet.
It might not be especially big, and it might not be something I entirely want to do, but I could do it.
It's not taken 1 IT course, it's taken hundreds, and a lot of hard work to get where I am - so naive?
Nope.
Richard Branson didn't own Virgin Atlantic overnight did he?
But from small beginnings he forged a business empire.
What's the difference between him and you?
Is he brighter? Doubt it?
Socially more astute?
Doubt it. No - he was just driven to do it and you weren't.
Maybe I'm well and truly a child of the Thatcher age, but what exactly is stopping you from being more than a pleb (if that's what you want to be of course)?
But, before I turn into Jack Black - who I hate - back to MMORPGs.
I'm not forgetting that they are social.
But the actual act of playing them isn't what I take issue with.
As you say - you can as easily spend 50 hours playing any game, as I have.
My specific issue is with what you describe here:
Quote: i reckon.
A weird thing is where i find myself happy to carry out mundane tasks in-game, but hate doing the same in real life.
Once, i spent an hour in-game happily rearanging my furnature in my house, but when ilweran interupted me to do basically the same thing in real life, boy did i grizzle.
Well, maybe i would have been more enthusiastic if we'd been arranging the best place to put a huge fuck-off trophy that proved that i was THE DON at hunting banthas.
OK - the time you spent hunting banthas in SWG.
Why are you doing that?
The trophy you won - a reward for a talent you have within the game for sure - but without wanting to get Freudian on your ass, isn't that simply validating my original argument that you are performing an action in-game to enforce a desire you probably hold in the "real" world?
You could argue, so what?
But if it's recognition from peers you crave - there are a thousand ways you could've got that outside Star Wars Galaxies.
If it's something else - then I bet you the real world has a route to offer it too.
If you genuinely want a bantha hunting trophy, then yes, the real world cannot help you.
Either way - perhaps that time would've been better spent with your partner?
Perhaps you could've spent more time organising the house in which you live, rather than the virtual one you inhabit online?
And most importantly at an age approaching 30, it it right to prefer aspects of a fantasy world created originally by a bearded twat who also gave the world Jar Jar Binks?
Perhaps not. But it's at least a valid consideration, and it's when that line is crossed, (and all parties are well aware that this has happened) than MMORPG playing becomes a "problem" - as in your EQ2 example.
These are all questions I'd mull over, and are possible the main reasons I'd never start playing SWG.
Between the ages of 6 and 11 I was completely Star Wars mad, owned the toys, played the games, immersed myself in the universe.
Now I've got a son and a mortgage to pay.
Things change - and a virtual bantha hunting trophy won't put Rowan through university.
This is like getting back on the running track 4 years after the Beyond Good and Evil olympics.
I'm also aware the fact I've spent 10 minutes typing this in, when I could've been doing something far more productive, pretty much invalidates my entire argument.
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But if you take that sort of hard line, you could argue that any form of play or entertainment is a waste of time.
Any time spent in any virtual world is time you could spend in the real world doing things that hollywood tells us will enrich our lives, such as swimming with dolphins, climbing hills, or talking to a therapist.
Or, as ruthless entrepeneurs like yourself would have it, taking IT courses and saving for islands.
Perhaps you could buy the island from celebrity love island and give guilded tours to idiots.
why are you targetting MMORPGs?
is it because you don't play them yourself and therefore can throw down disapproving looks from your ivory tower?
Hey, we're all geeks here.
We post on a gaming forum for christs sake.
We post 200-word posts on a gaming forum, in fact.
Damn, i could have done 3 IT cousres and swam with 4 dolphins in the time it took to type last nights post.
Most of my time in SWG is spent sitting in front of a monitor giggling and talking to and trying to entertain my fellow guild-members in guildchat.
That's not so unhealthy is it?
as for the trophy, i can see you're all impressed that i got it, so i won't dwell on it.
Sure i arranged my stuff, but that wasn't due to any desire to arrange stuff in real life.
I hate moving furnature.
But the thing is that when ilweran asked, i did go and help.
I hadn't been arranging furnature before because i didnt realise that my life would be enriched by having the chest of draws in another place.
And there are lots of games where you perform mundane tasks.
The sims, for example is utterly mundane.
Mundane tasks have a strange ability to become fascinating when placed in a game context.
I hate fishing, but that didn't stop me spending hours doing it in dark chronical.
If i was arranging bantha trophys due to my own desire to be larwence llewellyn-bowen, maybe we should all examine why we play the likes of GTA, GR2 timesplitters, any violent game.
would the time spent playing SWG be better spent with ilweran?
Well, yeah, maybe.
But again, you could say that about anything.
Surely people in couples need seperate interests sometimes?
You can't be together all the time.
My seperate interest at the moment simply involves being a ruthless bounty hunter in a galaxy far, far away.
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Quote: I don't like generalisations myself, but when people have the LotR ring for a wedding band - you just know the honeymoon was spent levelling up.
I think I know what you mean here.
I love my gold wedding ring, but I don't think it would be massively imrpoved by an Elvish inscription on the inside.
Though I know plenty of people who are inclined to fantasy and all it's trappings, I'll never understand this particular phenomenom.
Quote: Geeks are fine, they have a point.
Explain to me Dido or anyone who spends hours getting ready for going out.
Life is short
You're on your deathbed and you look back over your it
Hmmm
Man, I was one mother of all Level 121 Grey Wizards but at least I didn't ever own, nor ever date anyone who owned a Dido album.
Again, Will shows us why people pay him to write.
Yeah, if I ever lapsed and fell into the world of MMORPGs then at least I could comfort myself with the fact that it was always obvious to me that Dido was shite.
Quote: but...
you do have a point.
These games are worryingly addictive, and can take over your life.
I recently found out that my store manager (a guy in his late 40s with a family) was a hardcore everquest and EQ2 player.
He had to quit or face the consequences from his wife.
He said that quitting was harder than quitting smoking.
This is what worries me about MMORPGs and me.
I recognise that I have addictive / compulsive personality traits.
For the most part these are safely contained in solo / non-online (nonline?) games, but I honestly fear for the potential consequences in really letting myself go on something like WoW (for instance).
If I took the same steps that I take in normal gaming to ensure that I can still function as 'normal' in RL, I'd be unreliable (never showing up for quests, etc) when playing in a party and, therefore, would never get the best out of the game;
And it's the fact that I'd either be crap in the gameworld OR risk a pattern of compulsive behaviour that puts me off these titles.
Even though the idea really, really appeals sometimes.
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"Ah. but you see that's what seperates 99.9% of the population from the people who actually believe they could (and do) do exactly that." Ah, Nietzsche's superman.
You could sell your stuff to win an argument, but I doubt many people on the street could - them not having the many thousands of pounds you have stocked up in your loverly posessions.
Spare any change, sir?
Ha!
Sell your clothes, then you will have change!
In other news it turns out that people who do well in business and, say, the military tend to share sociapathic tendencies.
The figure is more like 2% of the population, not the .1 you suggest.
Essentially most born leaders/made-men are slightly bonkers.
And on a basic economic point if everybody was a self-made superman millionaire the value of money would fall.
For there to be rich, there must be poor - somewhere.
Why can't that idiot who got paid five pence to make your Nikes just get a better job?
He/she's obviously a loser who just doesn't try hard enough.
Still, they can relax a bit when they get home, turn on their £1000 PC and play a MMORPG.
Sorry, just standing up for those in dead end jobs.
Bloody oxen, the lot of us.
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[delete stupid rambling]
Never mind.
Something about overanalyzing stuff but never mind.
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"This neither validates or challenges the core of the argument.
"
Why should I validate your argument?
That's your job and you've got the internet.
And as for challenging it (something about nailing jelly to a wall) (No, that's rude - write something else) I say that not everyone can change their lives by sheer force of will.
This is demonstrable by pretty much the entire population of the planet who aren't CEOs of global corporations/ can't get on the property ladder.
I say, let them waste time in fantasy words.
I say, may their quests never be complete.
I say, it' slightly ironic that one type of gamer should mock another.
I ask what your argument was:
A) Some people are really sad and should improve their life before wasting time on-line.
2) Extreme RPG's are potentially life sapping and should be avoided unless you have the social skills/ intelligence to play them without letting them (ahem) play you.
C) People who don't become "successful" do so because their just don't try hard, there's no such thing as society etc.
They should do this before kicking back with a brew and a bit of Galaxies.
D) He who makes a beast of himself gives up the pain of being a man.
It's hot, I'm feeling a bit giddy.
Perhaps you could explain again using the Fear/Love bi-polar graph from Donnie Darko?
I Say:
If you're regularily on a gaming forum, you're a geek and you're already letting far too much of your three score years and ten playing games.
The fact that you can afford a holiday in Marbella twice a year is neither here
or there.
Turn off the computer and go outside.
It's a loverly day and I've already seen a fantastic pair of breasts that, for once, weren't mine.
And he was this close to being appointed to head of SEGA internal development.
All things in moderation, except moderation.
Peace!
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