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What makes good music? - Box Office & Entertainment - Entertainment - The Gungan Council - Message Board - Yuku
Good question, right?
A while ago, I would have said something along the lines of metal and classical music exclusively but the more I've gotten out of that vain and understand myself and others better, the definition of what makes music good has become less black and white.
So, this is how I see it:
Music is something no one can experience for you;
Therefore, no one can pass a final judgement on what is superior to what.
Unless you're judging by technical prowess, of course.
But that isn't the point of an artist.
Artists seek to reach deep inside and pull something out that can stir up a multitutude of emotions;
Whether it be rap, metal, pop or rock that makes these things happen for you, that's something only you are totally capable of judging.
So when people tell me that my listening to metal and opera is mainly elitist dribble, I view that as psycho babble.
For me, personally, that's the music that satisfies the emotional journey that unfolds in a song.
And that's what I think makes good music - your perception of what it is that you're hearing.
What about the rest of you?
General Ceel #1 [-]
Posts : 117583
(10/23/09 6:18)
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The whole "its a matter of opinion" argument that the typical mainstreamer will give you is utter garbage and drives me crazy.
Not all opinions are created equal.
The less you know, the less you've experienced....
The more limited by ignorance your opinion is.
The average person's opinion these days has no conscious criteria.
They instinctively are drawn to music that fit's the bill of what modern mainstream society has deemed to be "pleasing to the ears".
Offer them music that is outside that box and they are likely to call it "crap", "noise" or some other misinformed word.
I think the main difference between "us" (being connoisseurs) and "them" is that they're music finds them….
We go looking for ours, be cause we know what we're looking for….
Which is something that raises the bar another level from our previous discovery.
General Ceel #2 [-]
Posts : 117623
(10/24/09 8:25)
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Bump
Last Edited By: General Ceel 10/29/09 8:24.
Edited 5 times. Darth Terace #3 [-]
Posts : 11086
(10/24/09 3:00)
Sith Master
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I just believe there's two criteria you judge on: Emotional response and technical prowess.
Musical is universal but it's also a personal experience.
If something that doesn't appeal to someone else can bring you to that emotional brink, that doesn't make it anything less.
General Ceel #4 [-]
Posts : 117651
(10/25/09 8:18)
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Sorry, but that just doesn't mean anything.
Idiots get an emotional response from total moronic juvenile garbage.
But they lack the intelligence to realize that there is a vast well of emotions that their music will never tap into.
Mainstream music basically breaks down into songs about parties and songs about love/love lost.
These are hardly an accurate representation of the complexity of human emotion.
Furthermore, simple people "get off" on simple things that pander to those superficial emotions they already have.
Real art makes you respond to the art itself.
It makes you feel love where there was none.
It makes you feel rage where there was none.
When a great movie director creates a film about the horrors of war the magic is in that director's ability to make you feel fear and pain that do not actually belong to you, but to the characters.
It's the same way will all good art, regardless of the medium.
Run Tek #5 [-]
Posts : 425
(10/26/09 2:14)
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Darth Quote: : I just believe there's two criteria you judge on: Emotional response and technical prowess.
Musical is universal but it's also a personal experience.
If something that doesn't appeal to someone else can bring you to that emotional brink, that doesn't make it anything less.
Actually, there's really just one criteria people should be worried about: Emotional response alone.
Technical prowess might be fun to show off to your friends, but other than that...
If you can't write something that touches a nerve, then people are not going to listen.
No matter what certain elitist people like to say, there's nothing, absolutely NOTHING, that puts certain music on top of other music.
And anyone making such extremely ridiculous statements should prove their theories with cold hard facts and then be laughed at because that's impossible.
Jace Kanos #6 [-]
Posts : 11756
(10/26/09 5:45)
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So Run, are you saying that Britney Spears is basically equivalent to Mozart because a few thousand 12-year-old girls say so?
Music, like all art, is essentially judged on two platforms;
The objective and the subjective.
The subjective platform is simply the emotional reaction a person gets from the music, nothing more.
It can vary from person-to-person.
It is purely opinion.
The objective, however, concerns the "undisputed" such as a musician's technique, composition, and generally how historically groundbreaking, influential, or important an artist or a piece is.
In my opinion, truly great music is a combination of both the subjective and the objective.
It has the ability to satisfy emotionally through compelling, interesting and innovative musical devices.
But the more a person knows about and studies the objective, the more it influences their subjective opinion.
There are pieces of music that I didn't fully understand or appreciate until I studied them more from a theoretical standpoint, where the true genius of their composition finally occured to me, and I was able to "get it" so to speak, by seeing the great amount of thought, detail, and innovation that went into conveying a certain emotion.
Karin Dorn #7 [-]
Posts : 875
(10/26/09 5:53)
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Blah blah blah.
I can appreciate skill.
But I don't care how much technically buggery is in it, you can shout, you can scream, you can have your little anti-mainstream tantrums on the floor and scream, 'YOU MINDLESS SHEEP!" like every other fanatic of the musical underground.
Nothing anyone can say is going to change my mind, shit, we live once and I enjoy my music, and I'm not going to have some bitter internet shrew dictate what I listen to, you kitten fucking communists!
I like what I like, and that is the end of that.
Max Chaos #8 [-]
Posts : 2811
(10/26/09 6:20)
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Come on Jace, seriously?
I love punk rock, and too me it's good music.
It's not very mainstream, at least not the %#+!
I listen too. I know that it's not very technical, except for a few bands like the Dead Kennedys, but to me it's good music.
That's also the point of punk rock, it's the anti music.
It's supposed to be simplistic, but what it lacks it makes up for in rebellion and lyrics.
Which is honestly what punk is about.
Come on, I listen to all kinds of music, from blues to punk, country to metal.
I don't like the run of the mill mainstream %#+!
Of those genres either, yet I still consider the music I like good music.
Am I wrong in that aspect?
It's not mainstream garbage like your guys' argument.
Ayden Cater #9 [-]
Posts : 375
(10/26/09 6:32)
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.... Wow. Well spoken, Karin.
Whether or not Ceel agrees with it, what makes good music is, to a certain degree, a matter of opinions.
The only music that can really be called "great" music even if many people nowadays would just assume change the station are the compositions that are very old.
Everyone's heard of Mozart, Beethoven, and the like.
The only sure-fire way of knowing if X band or Y group made any music that can be universally called "great" involves jumping about 100 years into the future.
Personally, I prefer more choir-like and instrumental music to anything, and the songs in my library that are more mainstream, contemporary songs are generally 5-7 years dated, unless they're by a specific group I follow.
Jace Kanos #10 [-]
Posts : 11757
(10/27/09 2:15)
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Well Max, I said nothing about mainstream automatically equaling "bad".
As for punk rock, I think we both agree that punk music was more about the lyrical content and artistic message of rebellion than the actual music.
Their rebellion so to speak against mainstream music was to not care about how well they played their instruments, and be simple and honest.
So from a musical standpoint, is punk rock good music?
I'd be inclined to say no.
Punk 'musicianship' is nothing new- it's simply the same simplistic chord progressions we've known for hundreds of years- played poorly.
But is punk rock good ART?
I could certainly see a case for that.
Run Tek #11 [-]
Posts : 428
(10/28/09 5:54)
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Jace Quote: : So Run, are you saying that Britney Spears is basically equivalent to Mozart because a few thousand 12-year-old girls say so?
Music, like all art, is essentially judged on two platforms;
The objective and the subjective.
The subjective platform is simply the emotional reaction a person gets from the music, nothing more.
It can vary from person-to-person.
It is purely opinion.
The objective, however, concerns the "undisputed" such as a musician's technique, composition, and generally how historically groundbreaking, influential, or important an artist or a piece is.
In my opinion, truly great music is a combination of both the subjective and the objective.
It has the ability to satisfy emotionally through compelling, interesting and innovative musical devices.
But the more a person knows about and studies the objective, the more it influences their subjective opinion.
There are pieces of music that I didn't fully understand or appreciate until I studied them more from a theoretical standpoint, where the true genius of their composition finally occured to me, and I was able to "get it" so to speak, by seeing the great amount of thought, detail, and innovation that went into conveying a certain emotion.
Groundbreaking doesn't mean "Good".
It means that alot of people liked it.
It doesn't mean you'll like it.
Again, saying that one song is "Better" than another song is a simple way of expressing one's feeling.
Nothing more. Nothing less.
There's no such thing as "Good" and "bad" music.
Just music, and your opinion of it.
(Infact, I can even provide proof: We're discussing this.
If it were a fact, we'd all agree on it.)
Jace Kanos #12 [-]
Posts : 11765
(10/28/09 11:34)
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No, I'm pretty sure "groundbreaking" means "groundbreaking" in the sense that new and original musical idioms are being uncovered, which takes a great deal of skill and time to do.
In music there are a few innovators, and alot of copyers.
There's something to be said for the few artists who create a new, original and unique style of music.
It takes much deeper thought and a more virtuosic knowledge of theory and composition, hence making it better music.
For instance, the way Renaissance composers completely revamped harmony and counterpoint and created new ideas, such as harmonizing 3rds and 6ths, developing a new way of resolving 7ths and using more complex rhythms.
Some people are musical geniuses, and some people aren't, plain and simple.
And the fact that we're discussing this is only proof that everyone has opinions, but some are simply more educated than others.
Sorry Run, but Fall Out Boy is not on the same level as Van Halen just because the emo kid in your biology class thinks they are.
The Jonas Brothers are not on the same level as Beethoven just because your twelve-year-old sister says so.
Max Chaos #13 [-]
Posts : 2830
(10/29/09 1:09)
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Well said Jace!
Emryc #14 [-]
Posts : 3648
(10/29/09 3:53)
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What makes good music is in the ears of the...
Eh... a Beholder-like creation with ears instead of eyes.
What makes profitable music is what sells best, and is (logically speaking) thus the most attractive to most people.
Underground, undersold elitist fanwank is usually enjoyable (unless we talk the metal you folks tend to like, that's utter #@+$), but it's not better than mainstream sperm that's ejaculated onto everyone through the radio/tv.
Run Tek #15 [-]
Posts : 429
(10/29/09 4:02)
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Jace Quote: : No, I'm pretty sure "groundbreaking" means "groundbreaking" in the sense that new and original musical idioms are being uncovered, which takes a great deal of skill and time to do.
In music there are a few innovators, and alot of copyers.
There's something to be said for the few artists who create a new, original and unique style of music.
It takes much deeper thought and a more virtuosic knowledge of theory and composition, hence making it better music.
For instance, the way Renaissance composers completely revamped harmony and counterpoint and created new ideas, such as harmonizing 3rds and 6ths, developing a new way of resolving 7ths and using more complex rhythms.
Some people are musical geniuses, and some people aren't, plain and simple.
And the fact that we're discussing this is only proof that everyone has opinions, but some are simply more educated than others.
Sorry Run, but Fall Out Boy is not on the same level as Van Halen just because the emo kid in your biology class thinks they are.
The Jonas Brothers are not on the same level as Beethoven just because your twelve-year-old sister says so.
You're right, they aren't.
To you. And that's what matters.
To you. But in actuality?
Music is music. And it's what music does to you personally that matters.
Thus, you cannot say to my twelve year old sister (If I had one) that Britney Spears simply isn't as good as Van Halen or whatever.
Because that's just your opinion.
Nothing more. And to her, that opinion is crap, and to be honest, her opinion carries just as much weight as yours.
Just because you don't like doesn't mean it isn't crap...
You may have studied music, but you don't seem to have studied art.
Jace Kanos #16 [-]
Posts : 11769
(10/29/09 2:07)
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Britney Spears:
-doesn't even come close to having the singing capacity of Sammy Hagar (or even David Lee Roth for that matter)
-doesn't play any instruments competently, much less innovate new ways to play them
-has producers who write her own material for her
Van Halen:
-revolutionized an entire generation of guitar playing
-created a new sound that was copied, but never duplicated, by thousands of bands
-write their own music
So yeah, I can say that Britney Spears isn't as good as Van Halen.
It's my opinion, based on hard fact.
Your hypothetical twelve-year-old sister might think differently, but only because said hypothetical sister is still young and hasn't developed proper criteria for appreciating music yet.
Just because you think something is great doesn't mean it truly is.
It just means you haven't gained enough experience and knowledge yet to properly judge music.
It may sound like elitist snobbery, but it's true.
There IS such a thing as bad music.
Yeah, I don't remember the last time I've taken an art appreciation class.
But if all art were subjective, what would be the point of even having classes that study it?
Nobody's critiques would matter.
I drew this horizontal line on this paper because I am HAPPY!
Eat your heart out, da Vinci!
AvadreiaLacroix #17 [-]
Posts : 4132
(10/29/09 2:15)
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Karin Quote: : Blah blah blah.
I can appreciate skill.
But I don't care how much technically buggery is in it, you can shout, you can scream, you can have your little anti-mainstream tantrums on the floor and scream, 'YOU MINDLESS SHEEP!" like every other fanatic of the musical underground.
Nothing anyone can say is going to change my mind, %#$@, we live once and I enjoy my music, and I'm not going to have some bitter internet shrew dictate what I listen to, you kitten #$%!!!@ communists!
I like what I like, and that is the end of that.
This.
Goff256 #18 [-]
Posts : 12688
(10/29/09 4:12)
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I don't think there is a good criteria for deciding what music is good and bad.
Allow me to explain: In Technical skill, Arnel is sometimes inferior to Steve Perry.
(Both lead singers of journey) I seem to hear more raw emotion from Arnel, though (possibly because he's new and it's a fricken dream come true, who knows?).
So there are songs that are better than another song in terms of technical skill, but doesn't get as much of an emotional response.
To me? Music is art, and art is useless without an emotional response being able to be drawn from it.
And it's pointless without emotion being put INTO it.
Music for the sake of showing off what you can do is NOT art, to me.
That's a concept that the 'music elite' can't seem to understand.
Being 'technically better' doesn't always make you a better artist.
At least not in my opinion.
Karin Dorn #19 [-]
Posts : 901
(10/29/09 11:23)
Chain Smokin'
Shot Slammin'
Rebel Bastard
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I KNOW RIGHT. I SAID SOMETHING INTELLIGENT THAT PEOPLE AGREE WITH AND I'M IGNORED.
Wtf, you fuckers!
Run Tek #20 [-]
Posts : 431
(10/30/09 5:23)
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