Advanced Search
Welcome to Omgili,
Omgili (Oh My God I Love It ;) is a search engine for discussions. With Omgili you can find answers and solutions, debates, discussions, personal experiences, opinions and more... To learn more about Omgili click here.

This is a complete preview of the discussion as it was indexed by Omgili crawlers. Use this preview if the original discussion is unavailable.
Click here to view the original discussion.

Marvel Comics Animated productions improving? - Giant in the Playground Forums

Marvel Comics Animated productions improving?

I have heard it lamented that while Marvel Comics presents a more interesting world for its superheroes than DC, the quality of animated television and movie programming just can't be compared between them.

Bruce Timm's DCAU is spectacular, as have been the recent direct-to-DVD DC movie productions, but Marvel's animated offerings have been mediocre at best, horrid at worst.

I predict that things will soon change for Marvel animated productions, though, for one good reason: John Lasseter will now have the ultimate say in all future Marvel animated films or television shows. For those of you who don't already understand this, some history: For years, John Lasseter has been Chief Creative Officer at some little film studio called Pixar.

The final decision for all Pixar projects has been made by him.

When Disney bought out Pixar in 2006, Disney promoted Lasseter to CCO for all of Disney animation.

(To show you what control he has, his first act was to suspend/cancel all Disney animated direct-to-dvd sequels used to cash in on popular titles.) Now that Disney has purchased Marvel...well, I wouldn't be surprised to see the quality of Marvel animation get much, much better. Creator of the Vow of Nudity "Faerie tales do not tell children that dragons exist.

Children already know that dragons exist.

Faerie tales tell children that dragons can be killed." ~ Chesterton "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster.

For if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." ~ Nietzsche L G B T i t P

Re: Marvel Comics Animated productions improving?

Well, I just hope he doesn't decide to go all 3D CGI.

I liked The Incredibles , hells, I loved the The Incredibles , but it showed, once again, that humans look best in CGI when they are stylized severally.

I doubt he will, I just, really really, hope he doesn't. I also hope he ends, or changes drastically, this whole Marvel/Anime schtick.In and of itself the animation was excellent, but content wise (going by the previews, it was just anime as genre, full of stereotypes and clichés, rather then anime as medium, which can do anything.

Re: Marvel Comics Animated productions improving?

Off topic, but Talya, where's your avatar from?

Re: Marvel Comics Animated productions improving?

I'm a total animation nut, and the name John Lasseter makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. Don't know what he intends to do with the Marvel superheroes.

But the idea of him getting involved may just be the silver lining to this whole "Micky Mouse now owns Spider-Man's lycra clad butt" situation. But yeah, no one and nothing will ever hold a candle to Timm's DCAU.

I expect a huge improvement in Marvel's animated output, though.

Re: Marvel Comics Animated productions improving?

Mind you, to be fair, both the 1990's X-Men and Spider-Man were very good (if sometimes lacking in actual art quality) and the modest number of episodes of Wolverine and the X-Men have been so as well.

So they've not done bad... Unless you're talking just about art/animation quality as opposed to overall (i..e including story) quality, in which case, yeah, I'll agree there's plenty of room for improvement.

Re: Marvel Comics Animated productions improving?

Quote: : I'm speaking about the complete package.

Those would be what I considered "mediocre," above.

They were watchable, but ultimately not memorable.

Sure, they were better than the anime-inspired garbage on TV today, but put next to Timm's DCAU, they were fresh, steaming, fragrant piles of bodily waste. Quote: : I honestly forget at this point.

It originally had brown hair.

I've been using it in its current form as a character portrait for a sorceress i've been playing in a 3.5 campaign for about 4 years (have run from levels 4 to 17.) Character info here.

Re: Marvel Comics Animated productions improving?

Quote: : I didn't think DCAU was that much better.

Yes, the back end of the DCAU of Justice League was very good;

But of course they'd had about ten years to get it up to snuff, both with characters and technology.

I found Batman TAS to be rather more forgetable, and that was contemporary with X-Men. (From the episodes I've seen of Wolverine and the X-Men, it has art style of X-Men Evolution (but thank crap that's all!), and a tone closer to the 90's X-Men with a level of humour approaching Justice League (i.e.

Snappier banter and a bit subtle in places.)) Both Marvel and DC have got a fair bit of a way to go, though, before they can reach the top levels of western animation, in my opinion (though one of those is Avatar, which perhaps falls into your disfavoured anime-inspired category, so you may viloently disagree.) A geniune question, if you will, to enlighten me: what, aside from some very good (and some not so good) primarily comedies, has Pixar done, by the by?

I know Incredibles was excellently done, but what else is it that John Lasseter has done that inspired your confidence?

The name is unfamiliar to me, and I'm honestly not aware of Pixar doing anything of this like;

So aside from the obvious potentially substantial increase in technological quality, I'm not following why this gives us any better stories, necessarily.

Re: Marvel Comics Animated productions improving?

Quote: : Are you kidding?

Wolverine and the X-Men is awful!

It's the same plot we've seen thousands of times with no unique flair to spice it up, none of the episodes take the setup in anything like new directions, and Wolverine as an even more enhanced, spotlight stealing Mary-Sue than he usually is.

In Gambit's guest episode, Wolverine stole the spotlight from him! Other than the ridiculous "we live in a private school, but are enrolled at a nearby public school" contrivance of X-Men Evolution, it did a much better job of sharing its spotlight among the characters, developing them, and having interesting superpowered brawls.

It even did the "Mutants are hunted" angle better in its last season.

Re: Marvel Comics Animated productions improving?

Quote: : You'd be pretty much alone, there.

Batman TAS was brilliant, probably the best part of the DCAU.

(Superman TAS and Justice League were great, too, but the Batman series was the best of them.) Quote: : Every movie Pixar has ever made has been great.

All but one has over a 90% rating on Rottentomatoes (and that one still received a solidly fresh 75%).

Lasseter was executive producer on all of them, but directed three himself.

His breakthrough was Pixar's first movie, Toy Story.

But Lasseter strengths aren't directing, as good a job as he did -- it's knowing what makes a hit movie and what doesn't.

Every single movie Pixar has made has been wonderful, made huge profits, received good to great ratings, and they've picked some concepts I never would have thought could be interesting, but in the end they were spectacular (Ratatouille, Wall-E and Up, specifically.) He also refuses to allow a movie to be made unless there is a story to tell that he thinks will work.

This is the important part.

Too many people in entertainment think like this: "Hey, we should make an X-men movie!" "Great idea!

What about?" "Well...the X-men!

Like, wolverine and those guys!" But what's the story?

That's secondary to them, they worry about the license first and then the story after.

That's not how Lasseter operates.

If you're working for him, the franchise means nothing unless you've already got an idea that will not just work, but blow people away. RottenTomatoes ratings of Pixar films, for reference: Toy Story - 100% (Lasseter directed) A Bug's Life -91% (Lasseter directed) Toy Story 2 - 99% (Lasseter directed) Monster's Inc - 95% Finding Nemo - 98% The Incredibles - 97% Cars - 75% Ratatouille - 96% Wall-E - 96% Up - 97%

Re: Marvel Comics Animated productions improving?

Quote: : Don't have a problem with more Wolverine, personally.

In fact, when I first heard about the series, I said to myself "about bloody time Wolvie got his due!

Huzzah!" So perhaps my opinion of that series may be skewed slightly, since they'd have had to frack it up rather badly to not make it work.

(That and the fact they've had Steve Bloom voicing him after X-Men Legends 1 & 2 and Ulimate Alliance was just icing on the cake...) (Though I'd have gone with " Jubilee and Wolverine (and the X-Men) " myself, but I'm probably in the minority...) Quote: : I thought Evolution was watchable at best, cringingly dire at worst, myself.

I've seen maybe slightly more episodes of Evolution than I have Wolverine and the X-Men, but the latter still blows the former out of the water. Quote: : *Shrug* Not a huge Batman fan at the best of times.

I just don't find him a compelling character;

Plus he's got no sense of humour.

I don't recall ever finding anything in Batman TAS even mildly funny (I literally don't remember much about the series at all, mind, so I might not not have noticed any lighter moments), and if a thing lacks humour (in the appropriate place), it tends to be the kiss of death as far as I'm concerned.

And let's face it, Batman is just not a very funny bloke... I especially don't find him all that entertaining in isolation.

(I can just about manage to watch the later season of The Batman, pale imitation of the DCAU that it is, after the point Batgirl and later Robin joined, but before that I found it totally unwatchable.

Not that that's saying much, mind.) Bats worked great in Justice League, I thought, because he's the ideal straight-guy for everyone else to bounce off (and seeing him out-do the other superheroes with nothing but his own skill WAS funny).

I don't think I was ever so hooked into Batman TAS that I ever saw anything with Robin in (which was in the later seasons as I recall from my wiki-fu), which might have made a difference, of course. Though I cheerfully concede that DCAU Batman's voice actor is very much perfect for the role, towering easily above all others who have donned the cowl, live action or otherwise (with the possible exception of Adam West.

Yes I went there, and yes, I think campy 1960's Batman is hilarious...) (For the record, I've not seen any of the new Batman films (nor am I likely to) and I liked Superman Returns, Wolverine Origins, the Star Wars prequel trilogies, Spidey 3, and X-3;

I also am a huge fan of Pokemon, Naruto and Clone Wars.

Also, I thought the Joker in Dark Knight looked immensely silly and less convincing than the 1960's Adam West Batman's Joker and no matter how well he's acted, he will always look like he's had an unfortunate accident with a make-up trolley to me.

So you may fetch the flaming torches and pitchforks if you like...) Quote: : That is far more encouraging than the success of the Pixars films in and of itself.

As I suspected, then, a foray into a Marvel film would be taking them into territory they've not really been into before;

I.e. a more serious tone.

Not that they didn't do a stupendous job on Incredibles when the points of serious drama came up.

However, knowing the guy in charge has got his head on apparently straight is encouraging. They've got to go some, though, to reach the dizzy heights of those paragons of western animation (in my not even slightly humble opinion), Avatar and W.I.T.C.H and, fractionally just behind them, Centurions, though. On the other hand, all Pixar (or indeed Disney themselves) need to do to win me over completely is to do something, (almost) anything with Jubilee in it and I shall be a happy Lich...

Re: Marvel Comics Animated productions improving?

I find Spectacular Spiderman, which is produced by Greg Weisman, the guy who did Gargoyles, to be on par with the DCAU.

Re: Marvel Comics Animated productions improving?

That's the new one, isn't it?

I think it's been showing periodically on Nickleodeon in the UK.

I've seen a few episodes, and yes, it was pretty good.

I'd forgotten about it, actually. (Though I think the theme tune is a tad grating, myself...)

Re: Marvel Comics Animated productions improving?

Aotrs, I believe you are operating from a different underlying base set of assumptions from myself (or the average fan of the genre, for that matter.) You repeatedly mention that Batman TAS was "not funny." That was a strength, not a weakness.

It wasn't supposed to be funny.

Batman is one of the darker, more serious comic heroes.

As for the things you say you're a fan of, well, it further shows me we're on different wavelengths here. Superman Returns - Best of a sorry lot of movies.

5/10 at best. Wolverine Origins - utterly bland, and wrong.

4/10 Star Wars prequel trilogies - 1/10, 4/10, and 5/10 respectively.

RotS almost gets it right.

Almost. Spidey 3 - 3/10.

Really, really bad. X-3 - 5/10.

Not a terrible movie, if it were unrelated to the X-Men, but it was not an X-men story at all. Pokemon - ACK!

Kill it! Naruto - BLECH! Clone Wars - ...

Outstanding. Wait.

I agree with you on one.

*blinks* There may yet be some agreement on some other point somewhere along the line...

Re: Marvel Comics Animated productions improving?

Quote: : Never really watched that one.

I do know it has one of the catchiest theme songs I've ever heard.

Re: Marvel Comics Animated productions improving?

Huh, okay, given no one has started wailing in horror, I'm guessing this is actually good news.

Here's hoping - since I don't read their comics the only Marvel things I really care about these days are the few movies I'm interested in seeing and the Wolverine and the X-Men cartoon, so this is the one area where I'd be concerned if something bad happened. On the topic of specific cartoons, personally, I'm a fan of both X-Men Evolution and Wolverine and the X-Men .

I find the story and action sequences of the latter to be superior (although the former isn't bad in those areas either), but prefer the character balance and development of the former.

Among my few complaints about Wolverine is that Wolverine gets so much of the spotlight - I personally prefer him as more of a side character we see grappling with his past and/or Sabretooth every now and then, the way Evolution did it - while others, like Shadowcat and Ice Man, get little more than a few good action sequences.

At least they managed to give Nightcrawler a fair amount of spotlight with several episodes devoted almost solely to him, though, and I did like the few episodes focusing on Xavier's actions in the future, too, since he usually doesn't do much other than act as mentor/adviser/organizer to the rest of the team in other media. I did watch the old X-Men cartoon as a kid, but I find I can't watch it anymore.

I tried watching a couple episodes on Youtube not long ago, but...

The animation, the dialogue, the pacing...

Ugh, the whole thing just didn't work well for me.

I couldn't have kept watching it unless it got a lot better after those first two episodes. On the DC front, I liked the Justice League/Unlimited cartoons, but I'm not sure I'd call them better than the newer two series of X-Men cartoons.

Particularly the Unlimited episodes, which just had too many characters to show off, so we often got just an episode or two for some of them.

The fact that I'm really not a fan of most of those heroes overall (I really only like Green Lantern, though for that particular series I also liked Martian Manhunter, Green Arrow, and at times The Flash and Hawkgirl) probably also plays a role.

I know I watched Batman TAS and the old Superfriends cartoons as a kid, but I barely remember them, and no longer care enough about either to go find them online and watch them again. Zevox

Re: Marvel Comics Animated productions improving?

Quote: : Oh, certainly.

I'm pretty sure if I was ever on the same wavelength as the majority of people, I'd switch frequencies just of out sheer contrariness... But anyway, I think I should clarify.

I think there's a difference between something that's supposed to be primarily a comedy, and something that's basically serious with a few moments of levity thrown in.

(A paragon example of that, I think, would be Stargate SG-1 or Joss Whedon on one of his better days (or Avatar as an animated example.)) Or, the reverse, something generally funny with some good Shakespearian (tragic) elements thrown in (e.g.

Incredibles). Both because the contrast makes both elements work better. Justice League, while mainly serious, did have it's moments of humour (mostly very understated and subtle, which I thought worked beautifully.) Batman TAS - as I vaguely recall - tended not to have those moments. It is also probably very evident, but I am not a fan of drama for it's own sake (as that tends to end up people being a) angsty or more often b) extremely miserable and shouty to each other, neither of which I find particularly entertaining.) I am pretty much diametrically opposed to the current "dark" and "gritty" buzzwords of too much of current media.

I am quite happy with lots of explosions and pyrotechnics, preferably with a complex plot.

Morale dilemmas I can take or leave;

Philosphising and psychlogical analysis of the "human condition (sic)" et al I can really do without in most cases! So Bats was never going to have much of a chance with me on his own;

I just don't find him interesting, and he's not cool enough (in my opinion) to make his ass-kickery a draw in and of it's own right.

(Watchmen, too, is something that I would be even less likely to read or watch.) Quote: : See, I think people were expecting something deep with Wolverine (like the darker parts of his comic) and were thus somewhat disappointed.

(Also, I'm not sure how anyone could reasobaly expect to do more than pass at the complex history of a 200-year old guy whose spent most of that time in active combat service in a film of about two-three hours or so...!) I went in with exactly the same expectations as I did with Clone Wars the movie;

Which was some mindless mayhem, a few one-liners, and Wolverine metaphorically kicking everyone in the shins.

(Wolverine, as you may have gathered, is my second favourite X-Man).

And that's exactly what I got. Oddly enough, Wolverine is about the only angsty-broody (and argueably overly macho) character I like in anything.

Mainly that is, though, because he does have a sense of humour (and some witty banter), he doesn't act too cool to never react to anything and ironically, because he interacts so well with other characters.

(Also, he has close ties to Jubilee, and thus gets a by to bask in her reflected glory.) Quote: : I think to appreciate the prequels fully, you have to a) not expect it to be the latter trio of films and more importanly b) view it not as a tragedy in the making as a good man falls to evil, but the gloriou and hilarious rise of our beloved Emporer, and the way he masterfully kicks everyone, but especially the Jedi, in the shins, slowly, while laughing.

Seen from the Imperial perspective, it makes it a whole lot more entertaining.

Also, it has starships and explosions, which is pretty much a given pass mark with me... Quote: : Any purportedly children's show in which they get to actually, properly kill people on a regular basis and show at 10am in the morning and get away with it deserves it's accolades.

Also it has starships, energy weapons and the most awesome Jedi in the entire of ever (Asoka Tano, the Jubilee of the Jedi).

So, yeah... Be nice if Pixar could capitalise on that with Marvel, and actually have an X-Man show (with Jubilee and Wolverine (and some other guys;

But beyond those two, who cares...!)) where people are allowed to be killed.

(Okay, maybe not up to the comic level of visceral mayhem, since Wolverine's claws don't cauterise;

That might be asking too much;

But a few off-screen deaths a la Justice League or on-screen a la Clone Wars would be awesome.)

Re: Marvel Comics Animated productions improving?

I disagree that B:TAS was devoid of humor.

The Joker episodes alone...

Re: Marvel Comics Animated productions improving?

The problem with the Star Wars prequels was the boring and bad writing, the plot holes, the fact things randomly change with no explanation just to make the story work (remember how Padme turns against Anakin because she thinks it's awful he killed children?

Remember how he did the exact same thing in the previous film and she had no problem with it?), and the fact that they relegate important things into the supplementary material rather than just explaining it in the film. Quote: : Or Killer Croc's "I threw a rock at him" line from "Almost Got 'Im".

That was hilarious.

Er, it doesn't really make sense unless you see it in context. Do YOU have what it takes to become The Guy?

Re: Marvel Comics Animated productions improving?

Quote: : Padme could just be a racist who sees nothing wrong with murdering Tusken babies but abhors the murder of civilized Jedi children.

Re: Marvel Comics Animated productions improving?

*waves hand frantically* Guys!

Guys! This is about superhero cartoons.

Take your prequel hating elsewhere.

Re: Marvel Comics Animated productions improving?

The absolute greatest animated feature I've seen is Batman & Superman World's Finest. It made me love Mark (Large ) HAMill. And yesterday I saw Return of the Joker with some friends.

Excellent movie as well. Part of why I don't like Marvel is because Speaking Is A Free Action is much more prevalent there than in DC.

If they can make a high quality Deadpool show, I will be much pleased.

If they get a voice actor for Deadpool as good as Mark Hamill is I will renounce my DC beliefs.

Re: Marvel Comics Animated productions improving?

Quote: : Harley was hilarious as well in that: "I wanna lawyer!

I wanna doctor! I wanna cheese sandwich!" Quote: : John Kassir gave him a pretty sweet voice in X-Men Legends 2 and Marvel Ultimate Alliance, and is expected to reprise the role for the new game.

If they had him provide the voice, and based the episodes on either Joe Kelly's or Gail Simone's issues of his comic then a Deadpool show would be truly glorious to behold.

Re: Marvel Comics Animated productions improving?

Oh my stars and garters... This is bad. Quote: :

Re: Marvel Comics Animated productions improving?

Quote: : My brain wants to crawl out of my ear and slap whoever approved such an absolute piece of moronic senseless.

It may very well turn out to be better then it sounds, it could happen, but my gods, it's full of fail.

Re: Marvel Comics Animated productions improving?

Quote: : Oh...dear.

I'm suddenly very worried.

Re: Marvel Comics Animated productions improving?

Quote: : What the hell? Lycanthropy!

New Post: Mafia Dragons - You said "Impossible"...

We said "Nay". Avatar by Dispozition, banner by Nameless Spoiler Quote: : Quote: : Quote: :

Re: Marvel Comics Animated productions improving?

Quote: : I'd only be distrustful and cautious normally. But they cancelled Mini-Marvels for that.

And that ain't right.

Re: Marvel Comics Animated productions improving?

The only Marvel animated movie I've liked so far was Doctor Strange.

And even that wasn't that great. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Super_Hero_Squad_Show OH GODS NO.

Re: Marvel Comics Animated productions improving?

Quote: : I've been watching episodes of Bitches Love Spider-Man The Spectacular Spider-Man on Youtube and I've become addicted.

It's awesome. The look of the characters is a bit odd, but it allows for some fantastic fight scenes.

And the story is top-notch. I heard a rumour that this buyout by Disney was going to kill the show, however. http://splashpage.mtv.com/2009/09/02...man-tv-series/




Omgili Home About FAQ Plugins Usenet