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The Science Forums - education education what education?
This applies to education in general but it's going to affect science and technology graduates in particular, I would think.
Our dear Govt has decided to save money by withdrawing all funding support for people undertaking second qualifications which are equivalent to, not higher than, their first degree.
Birkbeck College and the OU are particularly affected, because they have many (if not a majority) of students doing just that - either career change, or career goalposts have been changed, or just simply updating.
Birkbeck reckons fees for such students could quadruple in some courses.
People undertaking higher degrees are not affected - yet.
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It's also completely against the government's previous claims that it wants people to be continually re-training and updating their skills so that they can still be employable as the job market shifts.
The government bods really are a bunch of clueless, penny-pinching (on worthwhile things) and profligate (on useless things) wastes of space.
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Yippee!
No more pointless "Continuing Professional Development" courses for me (they seem to consist almost entirely of listening to ex-students telling me how they have rediscovered the blindingly obvious elementary physics I taught them ten or twenty years ago).
Here, just in case anyone else is interested in CPD in radiology physics, is the whole truth:
Photons travel in straight lines
Too few x-ray photons produces a noisy image
Too many x-ray photons can kill you.
Apparently if you listen to someone telling you that for a couple of hours every year, it makes you a fit person to tell others, and thus earn lots of money.
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Yep...it would seem that Harold Wilson's greatest legacy has been finally scuttled..or at least has been given another mountain to climb...
To be frank methinks that it was never accepted by the mandarins of Whitehall anyway..
It was always viewed with suspicion since it's inception...certainly by the Civil Service..they loathed it with a passion...I mean fancy giving the great unwashed access to education...and not only education but higher education at that...where will it all end...they are bound to spook the horses are they not...!
Ridiculous concept really....ad infinitum...
Tis but another nail in the coffin of opportunity to the masses...no doubt formulated and passed by the Humphrey's of the inner sanctums where you are nothing unless Oxbridge...
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It's more selective than that.
Most politicians (and perhaps civil servants) are or were Oxford rather than Cambridge - and nearly all read classics or more overtly evil subjects such as law.
There's hardly a scientist between the lot of them.
The obvious "higher" degree they'll still be allowing is again an evil one - the MBA (business admin).
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Does this spell doom for the perpetual student?
Or the folks on benefit who go from one course to the next (free of charge), and because they're students they can't also work, so they succeed in bludging off the rest of us twice.
If it puts an end to those two, great, I fear though that it will only effect the sincere scholar.
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TonyTheBad wrote on Dec 4 th , 2007 at 4:05am:
Does this spell doom for the perpetual student?
Or the folks on benefit who go from one course to the next (free of charge), and because they're students they can't also work, so they succeed in bludging off the rest of us twice.
If it puts an end to those two, great, I fear though that it will only effect the sincere scholar.
How has the demography of perpetual students changed over the years?
Wen i were a lad...
They made up a small proportion at 'intake' year (i.e.
The start of a 'bachelors') by the time i got doctored, so to write, the closest remaining of that type was a guy who drove taxis, put out fires, and did a Ph.D.
On growing life from inorganics in his spare, spare time.
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Alancalverd wrote on Dec 1 st , 2007 at 7:10am:
Yippee!
No more pointless "Continuing Professional Development" courses for me (they seem to consist almost entirely of listening to ex-students telling me how they have rediscovered the blindingly obvious elementary physics I taught them ten or twenty years ago).
Here, just in case anyone else is interested in CPD in radiology physics, is the whole truth:
Photons travel in straight lines
Too few x-ray photons produces a noisy image
Too many x-ray photons can kill you.
Apparently if you listen to someone telling you that for a couple of hours every year, it makes you a fit person to tell others, and thus earn lots of money.
I do wonder if the effort involved via CPD in going for chartered physicist status is at all worth it.
People seem to be hitting the CPD idea as if it's a panacea for many professions.
It is of course vaguely (or perhaps not so vaguely!) bonkers...
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Doc Strangebrew wrote on Dec 4 th , 2007 at 2:40am:
It [ the OU] was always viewed with suspicion since it's inception...certainly by the Civil Service..they loathed it with a passion...I mean fancy giving the great unwashed access to education...and not only education but higher education at that...where will it all end...they are bound to spook the horses are they not...!
Not by this ex-Civil Servant or any of my (predominantly Oxbridge) ex-colleagues.
We always looked on OU graduates as something rather special, often took OU courses to broaden our own knowledge, and recommended them for anyone seeking career development within the Service or the NHS.
Having floated to a physics PhD by the traditional route, I found the OU applied maths BA a really tough swim, and I have a lot of respect for anyone wearing an OU tie.
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I don't know about classically-trained civil servants, but in technical jobs where we get our hands dirty, the OU has been a great help, as the requirements for practice registration have inched steadily upwards, from certificates to diplomas to degrees.
There is now a move to make all nursing degree entry only, for example, and registration for nurses and midwives is updated every three years
and is dependent on the individual providing proof of study.
Talking to a friendly OU tutor, I found that the pressure is on to reduce "academic" courses (including sciences) in favour of business studies and their ilk, as these are very often funded by employers who want an MBA for everyone.
But that leaves those of us who have to fund ourselves in a rather awkward position, finance-wise
That is, when the courses still exist!
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Alancalverd wrote on Dec 4 th , 2007 at 9:21am:
Not by this ex-Civil Servant or any of my (predominantly Oxbridge) ex-colleagues.
We always looked on OU graduates as something rather special, often took OU courses to broaden our own knowledge, and recommended them for anyone seeking career development within the Service or the NHS.
Having floated to a physics PhD by the traditional route, I found the OU applied maths BA a really tough swim, and I have a lot of respect for anyone wearing an OU tie.
I was being rather broad there...possibly to general and indiscriminate...no offence intended alan...
But I do think that in the beginning...(shazzbat...reads like genesis now...) that there was a rather stiff opposition to the idea...
Mainly from the higher echelons of the civil service...
This was way back in the sixties...when it was predominantly old school tie...they were also ably aided and abetted from the CBI at the time...
I think that it took a fair while to become established...about 5 years or so...when the first full degree graduates started to appear...and eventually it was an acceptable education mill...and the degrees gained were regarded as bona fide...by mostly all...
I do remember a discussion though in the nineties...at a saturday panic clinic...that there were great debates...if not wars declared...over the status of the Bsc offered...back then there were no named degrees....certainly in the O.U.
...I think that has changed now...but at one time you studied science you earned a 'Bsc'...nowt more nowt less...I am not sure if that was not the case in general..but from what I gathered it seemed to be only the O.U.
Science degrees that were considered to general to name by the bodies that be...
Even though the modules were directly on a par with the equivalent modules in 'normal' universities...
By the mid nineties money became the issue and funding was cut quite drastically...as it was with the other universities...but they had the reputation from the past...they were regular Universities and survived the period fairly intact and sanguine...
Foreign students helped fill the coffers...
And a certain amount of pragmatism was required for sure but no where near the drastic cuts that the OU had to endure...it's courses were really decimated..especially the science departments...
As mentioned by tam...
Bizzyness studies became the cash cow of choice...luvvly jubbly...guaranteed fees paid on time and no haggling about attendance or squabbles about content fees were paid whatever the student did or did not do...
I had a conversation a few years ago with a tutor that seemed rather grim at the time...he was bemoaning the fact that his speciality...Classical Physics...had between 6-8 students signing up per year...this was in the Dutch regional ..actually when I did the 'Astronomy and Planetary science' course...I was one of one...
...although apparently there were a few more in Blighty studying the module in that year...about 15 or so...
But on the various bizzyness courses there was upwards of 20-25 participants for a 30 pointer module...in Holland alone...
And fees were paid up front and half of them never sent the first assignment in...let alone finished the course...
Even now O.U study in Holland is regarded as a hobby in general...they have a Dutch version oriented O.U predominantly servicing child psychology and early years teaching...diploma's..some art but no hard science as such...and certainly no Physics of any hue...
Mainly tis bored housewives and the prattling classes that attend...along with the bizzy students...which was prized funnily enough...
Employers over here seem less then impressed when science bias is mentioned in a CV or job interview...tis not on their list of requisite traits apparently...certainly that is my experience...
Maybe that is not the case in Blighty...I hope so...cos it was a toughie...(even for the naturally gifted as I...
..)
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