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ILovePhilosophy.com • View topic - Religion and Philosophy and Philosophy and Religion
In what way do each of these domains of knowledge intersect one another?
All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither, deep roots are not reached by the frost.
From the ashes a fire shall be woken, a light from the shadows shall spring;
Renewed shall be the blade that was broken, the crownless again shall be king.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2rupzXojwI&NR=1
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One is subsumed by the other.
Complacency is the enemy of study.
-Mao
In the faculty of writing nonsense, stupidity is no match for genius.
-Bagehot
One person can change the world, but I'll just change it back.
-tshirt
Life is like a shit sandwich.
The more bread you've got, the less shit you have to eat.
-an old dude i met once
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Eloquent. All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither, deep roots are not reached by the frost.
From the ashes a fire shall be woken, a light from the shadows shall spring;
Renewed shall be the blade that was broken, the crownless again shall be king.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2rupzXojwI&NR=1
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Just wait. It gets better.
Welcome to the site.
Complacency is the enemy of study.
-Mao
In the faculty of writing nonsense, stupidity is no match for genius.
-Bagehot
One person can change the world, but I'll just change it back.
-tshirt
Life is like a shit sandwich.
The more bread you've got, the less shit you have to eat.
-an old dude i met once
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Thanks, I think. All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither, deep roots are not reached by the frost.
From the ashes a fire shall be woken, a light from the shadows shall spring;
Renewed shall be the blade that was broken, the crownless again shall be king.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2rupzXojwI&NR=1
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Quote: : In what way do each of these domains of knowledge intersect one another?
Religion can offer philosophy on ways to live and Philosophy can offer thoughts on ways to believe.
Aside from this, the two are as crossed as any given religious belief and philosophical school of thought are capable of crossing and mixing in the mind of a given person without causing disbelief in either.
N eed an A vatar or S ignature made ?
<-Not Spam
“Man is condemned to be free;
Because once thrown into the world, he is responsible for everything he does...It is up to you to give life a meaning.” -Jean-Paul Sartre
"If a theory allows anything to be possible, it explains nothing;
A theory of anything is not the same as a theory of everything" - John Polkinghorne
"Truth is not an eternal value, but a utilitarian value...
It is only as good as good it does..." - Juggernaught
"It is hard to get beyond what is obvious in the quest for truth;
But what we often find is that what seems obvious is only apparent..." - Juggernaught
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Philosophy is phony, religion is bologna Do you want to make yourself intelligent or do you just want to be perceived as intelligent?
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Quote: : Quote: : In what way do each of these domains of knowledge intersect one another?
Religion can offer philosophy on ways to live and Philosophy can offer thoughts on ways to believe.
Aside from this, the two are as crossed as any given religious belief and philosophical school of thought are capable of crossing and mixing in the mind of a given person without causing disbelief in either.
A like this idea.
A lot.
All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither, deep roots are not reached by the frost.
From the ashes a fire shall be woken, a light from the shadows shall spring;
Renewed shall be the blade that was broken, the crownless again shall be king.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2rupzXojwI&NR=1
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Quote: : philosophy is phony, religion is bologna
By Bologna do you mean the the capital city of Emilia-Romagna in northern Italy?
All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither, deep roots are not reached by the frost.
From the ashes a fire shall be woken, a light from the shadows shall spring;
Renewed shall be the blade that was broken, the crownless again shall be king.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2rupzXojwI&NR=1
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Religion is composed of practices that aim at transcendence.
The philosophy of religion analyzes those practices and the ideas associated with them.
"First there is a mountain then there is no mountain then there is."
"Time makes ancient truth uncouth"
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Please tell me more about what you see transcendance to be in a Religious/Philosophical context.
All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither, deep roots are not reached by the frost.
From the ashes a fire shall be woken, a light from the shadows shall spring;
Renewed shall be the blade that was broken, the crownless again shall be king.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2rupzXojwI&NR=1
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An ability to come to a complete (at least by reference to your own doxatically accessible set of possible worlds), understanding of what is, in spite of the assertions of incompleteness by others.
That's transcendence.
I think. Complacency is the enemy of study.
-Mao
In the faculty of writing nonsense, stupidity is no match for genius.
-Bagehot
One person can change the world, but I'll just change it back.
-tshirt
Life is like a shit sandwich.
The more bread you've got, the less shit you have to eat.
-an old dude i met once
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Quote: : An ability to come to a complete (at least by reference to your own doxatically accessible set of possible worlds), understanding of what is, in spite of the assertions of incompleteness by others.
That's transcendence.
I think.
Thanks for letting me know what you think!
All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither, deep roots are not reached by the frost.
From the ashes a fire shall be woken, a light from the shadows shall spring;
Renewed shall be the blade that was broken, the crownless again shall be king.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2rupzXojwI&NR=1
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Hey no problem. I mean, everything is pretty much what people think it is.
So I mean, just explaining what you think something is, for the most part, at least given certain conditions, is the same as explaining what something is.
I think... Complacency is the enemy of study.
-Mao
In the faculty of writing nonsense, stupidity is no match for genius.
-Bagehot
One person can change the world, but I'll just change it back.
-tshirt
Life is like a shit sandwich.
The more bread you've got, the less shit you have to eat.
-an old dude i met once
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While i see where you are coming from I do think it is very possible to misinterpret things.
All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither, deep roots are not reached by the frost.
From the ashes a fire shall be woken, a light from the shadows shall spring;
Renewed shall be the blade that was broken, the crownless again shall be king.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2rupzXojwI&NR=1
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While it's fashionable among certain people these days to portray philosophy and religion as embraced in one big happy holistic group hug, I think the truth is anything but.
Sure, the exact definition of "religion" is nebulous, but if by religion we mean a set of practices and beliefs derived from a so-called divine (or otherwise unimpeachable) source, then philosophy is fundamentally opposed to religion.
Don't get me wrong, there are many topics in philosophy that overlap with those covered by religion--we can talk about theology until the holy cows come home.
My point is that the moment you suspend critical thinking is the moment you cease to be a philosopher.
Nothingness? There's no such thing.
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On the difference between religion and philosophy - i don't think there is one.
If you look at philosophy from an etymological perspective you see that it comes from the Greek for "love of wisdom"
Wisdom is from the greek word for the "good life" or how one should live their life.
Almost all the religious texts, and sermons are on how we should live our life;
Religion is (partly) looking at how we should lead the good life
If you see philosophy in a wider context then just the good life (which i do) you see yet again that religion and philosophy are two words for the same thing.
If you read the bible (especially Ecclesiastes, proverbs, job, and romans) you see that they are just as philosophical as a lot of the modern philosophers (more so then some)
The bible isn't just philosophy it's also history, law, literature - in fact i would place the bible as the greatest academic achievement in the history of the world.
"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen" Hebrews 11:1
The greatest threat to progress is the inability to say "i am wrong"
"Who has put wisdom in the mind?
Or who has given understanding to the heart" Job 38:36
"would it have been worth while,
to have bitten off the matter with a smile,
to have squeezed the universe into a ball
to roll it toward some overwhelming question" T.S.Eliot
I ex-sist in a state of anxious bliss
Waiting for the moment when i'm chucked off this disk
And find myself in the bosom of oblivion
Cuddling up with my transcendant completion
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But if by religion we mean a set of practices and beliefs derived from a so-called divine (or otherwise unimpeachable) source, then philosophy is fundamentally opposed to religion.
I disagree with this.
One of the main aims of philosophy is the search for truth.
The truth by definition is unimpeachable (we can try to disprove it yes, and try to deny it;
But if it is the truth then we'll do those to no avail;
Therefore the truth is unimpeachable)
To find the truth we need to have a ground on which to stand to seek the truth - the ground we stand upon to seek the truth is the ground of logical absolutes.
Logical absolutes are yet again unimpeachable - if they weren't then we would never be able to find the truth, indeed we wouldn't be able to do anything.
We can question these things true- but that doesn't bring about a distinction between philosophy and (true)religion because (true)religion would actually encourage questioning of its premises because if it is the truth then the questioning will eventually validate it.
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I'd agree with the overall thrust that there is a huge degree of overlap between the two.
At least if we equate 'philosophy' with 'reason', since philosophy, too, can be somewhat nebulous in definition.
Both reason and religion are a priori constructs.
In another thread, I recently said, "Both religion and (logical) philosophy are complete systems based off of givens/axioms.
It can be argued that the catalogue of givens in religions tends to be slightly larger than that of philosophy but so what?
Both provide tools for thinking within that system."
How well either of those systems correlate to reality is a different question all together.
Now, I think philosophy has a strength in that it tends to be more flexible with its axioms than religion, at least in theory.
But when either is taken from the broad category of "religion" and "philosophy" and put into a more manageable box like "Consciousness Only School of Mahayana Buddhism" and "Objectivism", then similarly concrete axioms are provided.
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Xunzian,
Can I have you explain how you see any given theology or philosophy as a self-evident truth once defined specifically?
N eed an A vatar or S ignature made ?
<-Not Spam
“Man is condemned to be free;
Because once thrown into the world, he is responsible for everything he does...It is up to you to give life a meaning.” -Jean-Paul Sartre
"If a theory allows anything to be possible, it explains nothing;
A theory of anything is not the same as a theory of everything" - John Polkinghorne
"Truth is not an eternal value, but a utilitarian value...
It is only as good as good it does..." - Juggernaught
"It is hard to get beyond what is obvious in the quest for truth;
But what we often find is that what seems obvious is only apparent..." - Juggernaught
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You often find that philosphers, reasoning without reference to the religions, end up reformulating what those religions have already said.
For example: in a lot of modern existentialist thought - especially that of nietzhe and sartre - the idea that man is unfinished or incomplete is prevalent.
This is basically a reformulation of the biblical idea that man has fallen and is a broken entity.
Both Sartre and Nietzhe say that man has to find completion, or rather that he has to transcend himself.
Nietzhe says that he has to transcend himself into the uber mensch, sartre says that he has to transcend himself into the nothing or being-in-itself.
The bible says we have to find completion in the eternal being of God (eternal in the biblical sense doesn't mean an infinite span of time, but rather a timelessness or being-without-time.
Indeed the bible claims that God created time and space and transcends both of them)
The bible is like God's book of philosophy, or rather God's philosophy as revealed to man.
Like any other book of philosophy it makes a claim to truth which it is our duty as an intelligent, philosophical audience to validate or find fault with.
The main difference between the bible and other books of philosophy is that it claims to come from God who is the creator and so should know his creation better then his creation knows itself.
If the claim is true we should be able to evaluate it critically and then contrast and compare that to reality as we know it and there should be a large or absolute correlation.
The correlation is shown quite well in the similarity between what philosophers (atheist or otherwise) say of reality and what the bible says of reality.
The hand of the creator is visible in his creation.
I must say here that i am religious in so far as i consider the bible to be true;
All the christian institions and doctrines outside of the bible i don't have time for or consider as true as the bible.
My understanding of religion isn't that of a set of practices or rituals (which are just symbolism and thus an extension of doctrine) because there aren't any prescribed in the bible (apart from in the old testement when they were really prophecies of the coming of christ and showing the fallen nature of man and his need for redemption) for the christian life.
"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen" Hebrews 11:1
The greatest threat to progress is the inability to say "i am wrong"
"Who has put wisdom in the mind?
Or who has given understanding to the heart" Job 38:36
"would it have been worth while,
to have bitten off the matter with a smile,
to have squeezed the universe into a ball
to roll it toward some overwhelming question" T.S.Eliot
I ex-sist in a state of anxious bliss
Waiting for the moment when i'm chucked off this disk
And find myself in the bosom of oblivion
Cuddling up with my transcendant completion
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Well, in religion it is usually pretty overt.
For example, Christians take the Nicene Creed as a given.
Empiricism takes it as a given that knowledge arises from experience.
Modernism holds that the 'new' is de facto 'good', while post-modernism rejects the concept of 'good' in its entirety.
They can all be boiled down to various givens.
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OK, I wasn't sure if you were referring to the axioms as literally axioms or if they were only such to the individual by accepting a given theology and/or philosophy.
Thanks.
N eed an A vatar or S ignature made ?
<-Not Spam
“Man is condemned to be free;
Because once thrown into the world, he is responsible for everything he does...It is up to you to give life a meaning.” -Jean-Paul Sartre
"If a theory allows anything to be possible, it explains nothing;
A theory of anything is not the same as a theory of everything" - John Polkinghorne
"Truth is not an eternal value, but a utilitarian value...
It is only as good as good it does..." - Juggernaught
"It is hard to get beyond what is obvious in the quest for truth;
But what we often find is that what seems obvious is only apparent..." - Juggernaught
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|
|
|
|
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Quote: : Well, in religion it is usually pretty overt.
For example, Christians take the Nicene Creed as a given.
Empiricism takes it as a given that knowledge arises from experience.
Modernism holds that the 'new' is de facto 'good', while post-modernism rejects the concept of 'good' in its entirety.
They can all be boiled down to various givens.
So 'absolutists' have to be 'absolutely open-minded' and 'absolutely omni-directional' as opposed to 'closed' as some of the 'extreme materialists' would occult 'them'.
I noticed someone above, actually did that exact thing, mentioning no names, T of Locri.
As part of 'faith' I accept a degree of 'atheism' to maintain 'objectivity'.
It makes 'things' clearer.
All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither, deep roots are not reached by the frost.
From the ashes a fire shall be woken, a light from the shadows shall spring;
Renewed shall be the blade that was broken, the crownless again shall be king.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2rupzXojwI&NR=1
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