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Should all profanity be allowed on network TV? - Antsmarching.org Forums
This came to mind today looking over the new EW Summer Movie Preview issue, in the "News & Notes" section towards the front there's a small story about the upcoming NBC cop drama "Southland", how in the pilot episode there's several different instances where the characters say a dirty word in the dialog, it just gets bleeped out ("Arrested Development" often did this, but it was used for comedic purposes, and might I say it was brilliant).
The rationale of the producer is that they want to portray the daily lives of these cops in the most realistic way possible, so use the bleeping as a way to do that but still appease the FCC.
I personally have never understood what the big deal about profanity was.
It's a word, people.
I seem to recall a little saying about "sticks and stones..." It's "bad" because we say it is.
But actually what is equally (if not most so) my problem with the issue is the huge amount of ridiculous hypocrisy at work with profanity versus violence used in TV.
And c'mon not even like this is a remotely fresh argument, it's been a valid one for years, that apparently it's perfectly okay for teenagers to be exposed to cartoonish violence even in primetime network TV, but ohhhh no you better damn well not let them hear the word "shit" because they'll be paying therapy bills for the rest of their lives.
Gimme a goddamn motherfucking break.
And just for fun, here is a transcript I found of the part of the great George Carlin's act doing the classic bit of the infamous "7 dirty words".
Quote: : "I love words.
I thank you for hearing my words.
I want to tell you something about words that I uh, I think is important.
I love..as I say, they're my work, they're my play, they're my passion.
Words are all we have really.
We have thoughts, but thoughts are fluid.
You know, [humming].
And, then we assign a word to a thought, [clicks tongue].
And we're stuck with that word for that thought.
So be careful with words.
I like to think, yeah, the same words that hurt can heal.
It's a matter of how you pick them.
There are some people that aren't into all the words.
There are some people who would have you not use certain words.
Yeah, there are 400,000 words in the English language, and there are seven of them that you can't say on television.
What a ratio that is.
399,993 to seven.
They must really be bad.
They'd have to be outrageous, to be separated from a group that large.
All of you over here, you seven.
Bad words. That's what they told us they were, remember?
'That's a bad word.' 'Awwww.' There are no bad words.
Bad thoughts. Bad Intentions.
And words, you know the seven don't you?
Shit, Piss, Fuck, Cunt, Cocksucker, Motherfucker, and Tits, huh?
Those are the heavy seven.
Those are the ones that will infect your soul, curve your spine and keep the country from winning the war.
Shit, Piss, Fuck, Cunt, Cocksucker, Motherfucker, and Tits, wow.
Tits doesn't even belong on the list, you know.
It's such a friendly sounding word.
It sounds like a nickname.
'Hey, Tits, come here.
Tits, meet Toots, Toots, Tits, Tits, Toots.' It sounds like a snack doesn't it?
Yes, I know, it is, right.
But I don't mean the sexist snack, I mean, New Nabisco Tits.
The new Cheese Tits, and Corn Tits and Pizza Tits, Sesame Tits Onion Tits, Tater Tits, Yeah.
Betcha can't eat just one.
That's true I usually switch off .
But I mean that word does not belong on the list.
Actually, none of the words belong on the list, but you can understand why some of them are there.
I am not completely insensitive to people's feelings.
You know, I can dig why some of those words got on the list...like cocksucker and motherfucker.
Those are...those are heavy-weight words.
There's a lot going on there, man.
Besides the literal translation and the emotional feeling.
They're just busy words.
There's a lot of syllables to contend with.
And those K's. Those are aggressive sounds, they jump out at you.
CocksuckerMotherfuckerCocksucker.
It's like an assault, on you.
So I can dig that.
And we mentioned shit earlier, of course.
Two of the other 4-letter Anglo-Saxon words are Piss and Cunt, which go together of course.
But forget about that.
A little accidental humor there.
Piss and Cunt. The reason Piss and Cunt are on the list is that a long time ago certain ladies said 'Those are the two I am not going to say.
I don't mind Fuck and Shit, but P and C are out.
P and C are out.' Which led to such stupid sentences as 'OK, you fuckers, I am going to tinkle now.'
And of course the word Fuck.
The word Fuck, I don't really...well, this is some more accidental humor, but I don't really want to get into that now.
Because I think it takes too long.
But I do mean that.
I mean, I think the word fuck is an important word.
It's the beginning of life, and, yet it's a word we use to hurt one other, quite often.
And uh, people much wiser than I have said, I'd rather have my son watch a film with two people making love than two people trying to kill one other.
And I of course agree.
I wish I know who said it first, and I agree with that.
But I would like to take it a step further.
I would like to substitute the word fuck, for the word kill in all those movie cliches we grew up with.
'Okay Sheriff, we're gonna fuck ya now.
But we're gonna fuck ya slow.' So maybe next year I'll have a whole fuckin' rap on that word.
I hope so.
Uh, there are two-way words, but those are the seven you can never say on television.
Under any circumstances you just can not say them ever, ever ever, not even clinically.
You can not weave them in the panel with Doc and Ed and Johnny, I mean it's just impossible, forget those seven, they're out.
But, there are some two-way words.
There are double-meaning words.
Remember the ones your giggled at in sixth grade?
'And the cock crowed three times.''Hey, the cock the cock crowed three times.
It's in the bible.' There are some Two-way words, like it's okay for Curt Gowdy to say 'Roberto Clemente has two balls on him.' But he can't say, 'I think he hurt his balls on that play Tony, don't you?
He's holding them.
He must have hurt them by God.' And the other two-way word that goes with that one is prick.
It's okay if it happens to your finger.
Yes, you can prick your finger, but don't finger your prick.
No, no."
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I think it should be allowed, but that of course would force parents to actually be, you know, parents.
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Yes, but properly and in moderation.
Just because it'd be allowed doesn't mean they should be thrown around constantly because it's legal, which would definitely happen in a lot of situations, shows, networks, etc.
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There are no worst words, only unfortunate contexts.
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Quote: : Yes, but properly and in moderation.
Just because it'd be allowed doesn't mean they should be thrown around constantly because it's legal, which would definitely happen in a lot of situations, shows, networks, etc.
Well here's the thing when it comes to that -- I don't know if you're a Howard Stern fan, but when he was doing the interview rounds for his then-impending move to Sirius, the media brought up the obvious topic how now he'll be free to say whatever he wants, and was Howard looking forward to exploiting that.
And I thought he had a great point with his answer.
He wasn't looking to use profanity simply because he could.
In fact, he initially imposed on his crew a "no cursing" rule.
Granted, I think everyone knew (including probably him) that wasn't going to last long at all, but the thought behind it was the point of it.
If you're just spouting out dirty words for the sake of it just because you can , that gets old awfully fast, and terribly unfunny.
And so that's what he was talking about, that in the natural course of discussion, or a celebrity interview, if profanity came about as part of the natural flow of realistic daily speech, it was there to be used.
And I think it's exactly the same thing when it comes to having it in scripts for primetime TV shows.
Whatever year it was that Anthony Edwards left "ER", well there was a very big deal made about how also that season, the CBS medical drama "Chicago Hope" was going to use the word "shit" in a particular episode, where one of the elder doctors was explaining something to another character, and saying "Shit happens" (all seriously and dramatic, of course).
I mean I've never seen that show but I remember there was A LOT made of it in the media.
Well, Edwards' last episode of "ER" as Dr.
Mark Greene, again it took place the same year as the Chicago Hope episode, he was of course dying of a brain tumor and there's a scene where I think he fell out of bed from losing his balance or something, he's lying there on the floor barely able to function with any dignity, and he suddenly screams "Shit!!" as he slams his fist against the floor.
This was a completely surprise, NBC was able to keep it secret from the media, there was virtually no preamble to it happening, and I thought that was just one of a few reasons for why that example of "shit" was much more powerful, and meaningful to the particular story that ER was telling that night.
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Quote: : Well here's the thing when it comes to that -- I don't know if you're a Howard Stern fan, but when he was doing the interview rounds for his then-impending move to Sirius, the media brought up the obvious topic how now he'll be free to say whatever he wants, and was Howard looking forward to exploiting that.
And I thought he had a great point with his answer.
He wasn't looking to use profanity simply because he could.
In fact, he initially imposed on his crew a "no cursing" rule.
Granted, I think everyone knew (including probably him) that wasn't going to last long at all, but the thought behind it was the point of it.
If you're just spouting out dirty words for the sake of it just because you can , that gets old awfully fast, and terribly unfunny.
And so that's what he was talking about, that in the natural course of discussion, or a celebrity interview, if profanity came about as part of the natural flow of realistic daily speech, it was there to be used.
And I think it's exactly the same thing when it comes to having it in scripts for primetime TV shows.
Whatever year it was that Anthony Edwards left "ER", well there was a very big deal made about how also that season, the CBS medical drama "Chicago Hope" was going to use the word "shit" in a particular episode, where one of the elder doctors was explaining something to another character, and saying "Shit happens" (all seriously and dramatic, of course).
I mean I've never seen that show but I remember there was A LOT made of it in the media.
Well, Edwards' last episode of "ER" as Dr.
Mark Greene, again it took place the same year as the Chicago Hope episode, he was of course dying of a brain tumor and there's a scene where I think he fell out of bed from losing his balance or something, he's lying there on the floor barely able to function with any dignity, and he suddenly screams "Shit!!" as he slams his fist against the floor.
This was a completely surprise, NBC was able to keep it secret from the media, there was virtually no preamble to it happening, and I thought that was just one of a few reasons for why that example of "shit" was much more powerful, and meaningful to the particular story that ER was telling that night.
This is exactly why I think it should be allowed.
It's how people speak.
Everywhere. All the time.
An F-bomb every other word, no, but the occasional curse word sprinkled in to conversation is what you're going to experience in real life.
Why pretend it's otherwise?
It's like in the 50's where couples had to be in different beds.
Yea, let's pretend that a couple (with a fucking kid mind you) doesn't get down.
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Quote: : This is exactly why I think it should be allowed.
It's how people speak.
Everywhere. All the time.
An F-bomb every other word, no, but the occasional curse word sprinkled in to conversation is what you're going to experience in real life.
Why pretend it's otherwise?
It's like in the 50's where couples had to be in different beds.
Yea, let's pretend that a couple (with a fucking kid mind you) doesn't get down.
Agreed. New Zealand TV doesn't censor anything on their basic networks at all.
At first I was taken aback when I heard an F-bomb, or saw a naked lady.
But now, I don't even notice the language thing.
It does seem like normal conversation.
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Quote: : This is exactly why I think it should be allowed.
It's how people speak.
Everywhere. All the time.
An F-bomb every other word, no, but the occasional curse word sprinkled in to conversation is what you're going to experience in real life.
Why pretend it's otherwise?
I completely agree.
About the Anthony Edwards situation - it was absolutely shocking the first time I saw it, but not until I gave it some thought afterwards as to if he was allowed to say it or not.
It sounded so completely natural at first, but a few moments later it hit me, like, "Wait, did he just say...".
Instances such as those are great examples of acceptable and encouraged uses if it's allowed.
In a movie or television show driven on storylines and in-depth characters, it's obviously going to be a + most of the time;
Channels such as Comedy Central or those types of programs would probably just take advantage of a change in censors.
Regardless, disclaimers would probably be needed or a good idea.
Comedy Central's Secret Stash is pretty cool obviously since it's uncensored, and they've got the warning.
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Quote: : I completely agree.
About the Anthony Edwards situation - it was absolutely shocking the first time I saw it, but not until I gave it some thought afterwards as to if he was allowed to say it or not.
It sounded so completely natural at first, but a few moments later it hit me, like, "Wait, did he just say...".
Instances such as those are great examples of acceptable and encouraged uses if it's allowed.
In a movie or television show driven on storylines and in-depth characters, it's obviously going to be a + most of the time;
Channels such as Comedy Central or those types of programs would probably just take advantage of a change in censors.
Regardless, disclaimers would probably be needed or a good idea.
Comedy Central's Secret Stash is pretty cool obviously since it's uncensored, and they've got the warning.
Yea, they have the ratings before every episode or movie (on most stations I think.
V-chip etc..). I think that's enough, or at least it should be.
The Shield was an experience kinda like you described, I wouldn't really notice them dropping words like shit or pussy, because it fit into the conversation naturally.
Only later did I think back and wonder "did they just say that?".
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I don't see why not.
They are just words after all.
--Colin
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It's fine just how it is.
I don't see any problems.
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Quote: : It's fine just how it is.
I don't see any problems.
Me either.
Biff saying ___ head on USA is just as enjoyable as him saying butthead in the original version.
No one's ears should ever have to hear the word "butt" on tv.
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This is network television
Anyway, no all profanity shouldn't be allowed.
Decency.
Our culture is already less than family friendly.
No reason to muck it up even further with f bombs in primetime.
What kids watch and listen to can affect their behavior..
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Quote: : Me either.
Biff saying ___ head on USA is just as enjoyable as him saying butthead in the original version.
No one's ears should ever have to hear the word "butt" on tv.
Holy shit are you kidding me dude?
They seriously bleeped out "butt" in that line on USA?
Oh my god
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Quote: : This is network television
Anyway, no all profanity shouldn't be allowed.
Decency.
Our culture is already less than family friendly.
No reason to muck it up even further with f bombs in primetime.
What kids watch and listen to can affect their behavior..
You say "decency" as if there's some universally accepted textbook definition of exactly what it is.
Yea and what kids watch and listen to from their parents can also affect their behavior.
But as Matt already pointed out, god forbid they actually be, ya know, parents.
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Words are only offensive if one makes them offensive
the word 'fuck' has no meaning, it was constructed by society
to be offended by the utterance of any word is astounding to me
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I'd like to find a stranger in the alps.
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They bleeped out "balls" on the Daily Show the other night, I was very disappointed because Comedy Central seems to be the most lenient with language these days.
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I swear, when I Know What You Did Last Summer was on TBS at 4am a week or so ago, they didn't censor an f-bomb.
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Quote: : I was very disappointed because Comedy Central seems to be the most lenient with language these days.
I don't understand why the fcc has jurisdiction over cable/satellite tv at all.
It's a service you pay for, it isn't just something you can turn your tv on and get like broadcast.
I understand that the channels can use discretion on the language or other content based on their advertisers.
There are already channels devoted to children's programming, and most if not all providers provide ways to block certain channels from your children or allowing/blocking certain content.
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Just talked about all of this in my Media Law class and how bogus the rules are.
The indecency curfew laws should be allowed to apply to all profanity, just like when Comedy Central plays the secret stash, only allow it earlier, like as of 10 PM like the rest of indecency statutes.
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I dont see why not.
I use most of the words all the time
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Quote: : I think it should be allowed, but that of course would force parents to actually be, you know, parents.
Are you a parent?
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I hear 'Shit' and 'Dick' every now and again on TNT and TBS.
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Quote: : This is exactly why I think it should be allowed.
It's how people speak.
Everywhere. All the time.
An F-bomb every other word, no, but the occasional curse word sprinkled in to conversation is what you're going to experience in real life.
Why pretend it's otherwise?
It's like in the 50's where couples had to be in different beds.
Yea, let's pretend that a couple (with a fucking kid mind you) doesn't get down.
Have you considered that its how people speak because it has become the norm due to things like it being on TV?
The people have have described above are quite a low standard on which for things to be judged.
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It should be permitted.
it should be up to parents to monitor what their children watch not the government.
Free speech should not be limited to what we want to hear.
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I find the problem with language is that people don't know when it's appropriate to use certain words.
I'm not going to say 'fuck off' to my boss.
I will say 'fuck off' to my friends.
I'm also not going to tell a priest how much I enjoy to suck cock.
I will, however, say this to the door-to-door converters from the Mormon/whatever churches that seem to flock whenever I am in the middle of a cram review session.
Seems to do the trick.
They blush, call me a dirty slut in their head and wander off.
Works like a charm.
I use 'foul' language in my everyday speech.
It's natural for me.
But I also know enough to stifle that in certain situations...especially with my niece and nephews when they were in the 'repeat everything big people say' stage.
They are passed that now, and they hear swearing all around them from family and other kids, but they know not to repeat it.
Some of my favourite tv programs are filled with obscenities.
Foul language, foul behaviour...I love it all.
It's real. I don't need something watered down for me, I'm a big girl, I can handle it.
If parents don't want their kids hearing swear words or seeing partial nudity or strong sexual behaviour...they would have to put them in a bubble and suspend them from their own bedroom ceiling.
It's not the media/tv networks job to raise your kids.
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Quote: : You say "decency" as if there's some universally accepted textbook definition of exactly what it is.
Just because there isn't a textbook definition doesn't mean we can't come to a reasonable agreement as a society about what is or isn't allowable on network TV - these are publicly owned airwaves after all.
Now, I'm not a parent, but I don't think it is unreasonable to have some general guidelines about what is shown on network tv.
As others have said, it's totally fair to not want the f-bomb being dropped every 10 minutes or some sort of gratuitous porn being shown.
Now, there are things that probably skirt the line somewhat - should we allow 'ass' but not 'shit'?
I would argue we should make a decision, enforce it, and move on.
There are more important things to contemplate in life than whether or not you can say every curse word imaginable on network TV.
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Quote: : I find the problem with language is that people don't know when it's appropriate to use certain words.
I'm not going to say 'fuck off' to my boss.
I will say 'fuck off' to my friends.
I'm also not going to tell a priest how much I enjoy to suck cock.
I will, however, say this to the door-to-door converters from the Mormon/whatever churches that seem to flock whenever I am in the middle of a cram review session.
Seems to do the trick.
They blush, call me a dirty slut in their head and wander off.
Works like a charm.
I use 'foul' language in my everyday speech.
It's natural for me.
But I also know enough to stifle that in certain situations...especially with my niece and nephews when they were in the 'repeat everything big people say' stage.
They are passed that now, and they hear swearing all around them from family and other kids, but they know not to repeat it.
Some of my favourite tv programs are filled with obscenities.
Foul language, foul behaviour...I love it all.
It's real. I don't need something watered down for me, I'm a big girl, I can handle it.
If parents don't want their kids hearing swear words or seeing partial nudity or strong sexual behaviour...they would have to put them in a bubble and suspend them from their own bedroom ceiling.
It's not the media/tv networks job to raise your kids .
And if they want to get people to watch who dont want profanity, they simply dont swear.
Its a networks choice to do it or not, but i dont think we should tell them if they practice free speech that they will get fined.
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