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Seems the environment is a little less important when gas falls from $4 to $2.50. : environment

This is just one example of why the self-correction of a free market doesn't really work with environmental dangers.

By the time the financial cost of environmental damage outweighs the financial advantages for any individual, corporation, or government, the damage has already been done.

Yay, Capitalism [Austin Powers' voice]

Exactly, it assumes that we can fix the energy/environment problem as fast the market suggest that "it is time to do so" which obviously isn't possible because the technology needs time to develop and be implemented. This is a great TED talk that shows human's complete inability to accurately assign value to things far off the future.

IN context to the current energy situation in the world, it shows that we are not going to do anything unless an external force is brought to the market to "artificially" increase the cost of using dirty non-renewable energy via carbon tax, etc.

Yeah, the future is tricky.

The future is a Marshmellow Test.

It's not that we can't assign value, it's just that no one really has enough incentive to do anything.

If one company does the right thing, they are ousted out of the market and replaced.

Well it's a reactionary measure instead of a planned implementation.

Just like the tragedy of the commons , there is no free-market incentive for any one group to have a planned implementation to cut their environmental impact and miss out on the profit that can be made by polluting.

There is however a bit of an incentive to green-wash and improve public perception of your organization.

Gas fell from $4 to $2.50 like 5 months ago, do you work for Safeway or something or Pizza Hut, cuz your the only mother fucker who didn't catch on....

Apparently.

Here in Europe, average gas price is $7/gallon atm, and our car:people ratio is comparable to the US, although our engine sizes are generally smaller.

And the money raised goes into all sorts of other things. That said, I really do think there is a change of attitude towards cars.

More people are looking at hybrids and other alternatives.

It's just going to take time.

This is how the world works.

People flock to the cheapest option for them. this is why people haven't permanently changed their behavior.

They have no incentive to do so except for the feel good-ness of it.

Days like today I really hate my species.

Definitely!

This is why a gas tax makes sense, more sense than a government mandate for minimum miles per gallon for manufacturers.

With the mandate plan, people will still buy large cars that get fewer miles per gallon, within the mandate limits.

Assuming there are no loopholes like SUVs.

A gas tax would artificially inflate gas prices and people would flock to the more efficient vehicles as a matter of choice.

You could balance the tax burden by decreasing income taxes, so that its not a tax increase, just a different tax distribution.

People would flip if they found out Obama was raising their gas prices to save the world.

Even if he's right. Sometimes in my darker/super-cynical moments, I imagine Bush and his cronies had the worlds (and environments) best interests in mind when they started fucking with the oil supplies.

I imagine their think-tanks figured a big giant war and oil too pricy to buy is the only way to save the world in the long run, like they have some sorta dire long-view. ...Then my high wears off and I snap out of it.

I agree with both these posts.

I've abandoned free-market principles to save the free-market system.

-GWB We all need to believe that deep down people aren't all bad.

Hitler was a vegetarian (or so I've heard).

Nope, apparently he was an enthusiastic omnivore.

His doctors put him on a vegetarian diet to try and curb a severe flatulence problem. http://www.naturalnews.com/025163_Hitler_vegetarian_vegetarianism.html

Agreed. I always say...

Hell, make it 10$ a gallon.

People will be mad they can't afford to drive their SUVs with nothing in them, but they will figure it out and survive.

This would work for domestic vehicle use but it does not take in to effect the large businesses who are putting CO2 into the atmosphere are alarming rates.

Those businesses are not affected by fleet mileage quotas either.

People with SUVs and people who use lots of gas trend to be in the category where this tax really wouldn't hurt them too bad.

I'm don't know how it would affect the shrinking middle class but the poor would get a nice kick in the balls from this.

So cut income tax extra for the poor.

What are these people going to do when gas goes up anyway and there's no tax?

At that time they (and the country as a whole) will have to restructure to not be so wasteful.

Why not start now?

What are these people going to do when gas goes up anyway They'll probably be dead by then which is how many people view it rightn or wrong.

In general I agree with you just not sure taxes alone will do much of anything.

You have to be able to convince people that it's the right thing to do, offer all kinds of incentives, and build an economy and jobs revolving around renewable and clean energy.

Nothing is going to be easy.

So cut income tax extra for the poor They are already getting distributions from the earned income tax credit to the tune of a couple grand a year.

What do you propose we do, give them four?

Yup, there's no tax on gasoline already, so that's a good idea.

The gas tax pays [somewhat] for damage done to roads.

Drivers still don't pay for the cost of their pollution.

You base that statement on what exactly?

Why not just tax gas to hold it at approximately $4 per gallon, then use the money to subsidize gas whenever it rises above $4?

(or whatever price is deemed most beneficial to alternative fuel research, without completely fucking over the economy.)

Because the government might borrow from one fund to pay for other programs (ie Social Security and Medicare paying for all sorts of programs.) So then when the gas price goes back up, the insurance really wouldn't be there.

Anything change since you posted almost the exact same story about a week ago ?

I love when environmentalists and the oil corporations want the same thing the tragic irony is irreplaceable.

No, not really the oil corporations are trying to find a balance of price that keeps on dependent while expensive.

The overshot with $4 gasoline and people were actively looking for replacements.

They will keep the price as high as they can that keep replacements at a minimum..

BTW they also do like to occasionally shoot up prices and wait for environmental alternatives to get funding then pull the rug out from them in order to "teach them a lesson".

In other news, water is wet.

Well, if the Daily Fuel Economy newsletter people that were polled say it, then it must be so.

Necessity, who is the mother of invention.

And then we'll be outraged when it hits $5, but then we'll be so happy when it hits $3, then we'll be super pissed when it hits $6 but totally ok when it comes back down to $3.50, and on and on.

The environment was never really at stake for the average person.

The public in general only wanted to investigate alternative energy sources because they were under the (mistaken) impression that they would be cheaper than gas. Until we provide alternative fuel this actually is cheaper than gas, the environment will suffer.

There's just no way around this.

Well it does say dailyfuelECONOMYtip.com

All I know is here in northen cal the pick-up truck driving RETARDS don't give a rats ass about anything other then there lifted retarded trucks.

I was never concerned with the environment.

I cared about gas being $4. I could care less about "the environment".

I care about concrete things like water quality, air quality, cost of transportation, crime. Most of the stuff that gets called "the environment" is stupid crap like carbon credits and using paper bags instead of plastic.

Stupid crap like carbon credits and using paper bags instead of plastic. Yeah, I consider myself an environmentalist, and it bugs me when people get off track like that.

I like that people are at least thinking about it, but am disturbed by the possibility that they're being intentionally distracted by the influential powers invested in the status quo. imho, the best thing people can do is save electricity and eat mostly plants ( CSAs are convenient).

Both good for the wallet, too.

Right, I'm an environmentalist and believe in saving electricity and vegetarianism due to these decisions saving money and promoting health, not because of some belief that sacrifice as intrinsic value.

It is an alarming situation, can u imagine if fossil fuels are over in the earth??

How we are going to drive our cars??

Hmm. Work 45 minutes away from home?

Wait, the bus-line doesn't go all the way out there, or it takes 4+ hours to get there?

Don't worry! It's JUST above minimum wage, you'll be able to pay for the gas there and back every day whilst paying bills.

Should you try and find another job?

Yes, the job market is teeming with opportunities.

...or poor people.

Which is funny, because everyone bitched about the carbon tax here until gas dropped in price.

Then they didn't notice that 2% isn't really all that much.

Plus we can spend that $1.50 a gallon savings by terrorizing more brown people.</sarcasm>




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