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Psychology Today: The Surprising Truth About Addiction...its not a disease, and you can stop without joining a religious conversion cult. : Health

Psychology Today, our daily source of pseudoscientific claptrap.

Yes....but this claptrap just might be true.

So when you die from agitated delirium it's all in your head?

Hardly, but alcohol is the only form of withdrawal that can kill you if you don't do it under proper medical supervision.

You'll feel pretty horrendous (to say the least), but going off of opiates or any kind of drug other than alcohol is at the most going to make you very sick. This article seems to be talking about the effectiveness of long term supports, rather than withdrawal management.

Am I reading this correctly?

You're saying quitting alcohol is more difficult that kicking opiates? Do you have any links so that I can read more about that?

I'm not saying that it's more difficult, just that alcohol withdrawal can kill you without proper medical support, and opiate withdrawal is just going to make you very, very miserable. Delirium Tremens Inpatient management of alcohol withdrawal: a practical approach Diagnosis and Management of Acute Alcohol Withdrawal . Death Due to Withdrawal from Narcotics - long study, summarized, Although it was clear that withdrawal from narcotics constituted a stress which, in combination with such preexisting factors as chronic debilitating illness and extreme old age, might result in death in certain cases, no case was found in which withdrawal from narcotics per se was a sufficient cause of death. Opiate withdrawal Opiate Detox And Withdrawal Symptoms - sorry, it's a crappy page, but it lists the major symptoms.

The DTs are a well recognized result of acute alcohol withdrawal.

There are well designed, well researched medical protocols that deal with this type of withdrawal symptomatically. The same for opiate, and other withdrawals, however, these have nothing to do with the topic.

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I totally agree. My dad (RIP) had 38 years sobriety in AA when he passed away.

We was not religious in the slightest.

I've been to many meetings where the majority of attendees were athiest or agnostic. It's always reiterating in AA that God can be anything you want it to be.

Now I'm sure there are christian based meetings out there.

BUt I would bet that there are just as many Jewish, or atheist.

And the majority of meetings are just people coming together trying to stay sober.

God can be anything you want it to be Specifically, a "Power greater than ourselves".

I recognize no such power.

What about energy?

Or galaxies? Or your penis when you're horny?

I attended AA for awhile and should probably go back.

As for 'god' in AA I attended meetings 3 times a week, 2 in the Rectory of a Catholic Church and 1 in the Basement of a Catholic church.

There were a handful of Catholics, Christians, and others but the majority actually practiced basic Native American Indian beliefs involving prayer, meditation, weekend getaways to the mountains that involved sweat tents (like a sauna).

I never felt pressured to follow any particular belief but only to have faith in somthing greater than myself....for some their greater power was that of the group and the support it provided.

AA is a wonderful organization that CAN do alot of good for alot of people, but like anything there are 'bad' groups out there too.

Find those that work for you and stick with it.

Like modern educated and intelligent people look back on the days of Freudian psychology with disdain and disgust, future educated people will find our modern method of labeling choices/behaviors as diseases and telling ourselves over and over and over again that we are powerless and helpless to change, one of the most disturbing and unproductive facets of our era. I CAN and CHOOSE to take better care of myself. I CAN and CHOOSE to eliminate all bad habits from my life. I CAN and CHOOSE to make the most of every opportunity that is presented me. I CAN and CHOOSE to make better decisions as my knowledge base increases and deepens. I CAN and CHOOSE to make wiser choices in every area of life. I CAN and CHOOSE to grow in the areas of self-control, self-discipline, and self-management.

Rather then look back on the independent spirit that made America great, self efficacy, self control and responsibility, we have chosen to label every bad behavior a disease. Rather then facing our self-inflicted habits directly, we collectively join support groups that in reality compromise nothing more then a closed feedback loop of self-validating folklore...passed off as cutting edge medicine. All addictions, at their core level are personal choices, that can be overcome.

They are not "spiritual diseases" or any other non-clinical 12 step term. The 12 steps, the purveyors of personal powerlessness, are the problem masquerading as the solution to a non-existent disease.

In 2006 there were a reported 1,867,212 AA members in 106,202 AA groups worldwide. Almost two million people would disagree with you.

These are not the pro 12 step numbers you seem to think they are, as participation in 12 step groups is often mandated by sentencing authorities. Of the people who are there of their own volition, only three to five percent maintain sobriety on what the 12 steps themselves consider to be long term.

That's three years or more. Millions passing through various 12 step programs does not speak to its efficacy.

And a three percent admitted success rate, and a ninety-seven percent failure rate speaks more to the ability of the 12 steps to insinuate itself into the publics mind as the answer to addiction, rather then its effectiveness. Another point: to its dogmatic members AA, NA, CA et al are perfect.

The problem lies solely in those who reject this simple program.

An attitude not unlike its religious analogue fundamentalist/literalist Christianity. Rather than an organization concerned with helping people end an addiction, the predominant 12 step attitude is one of a callous, dogmatic, religious sect.

Not that of a rational, humanistic program concerned with helping those afflicted by what 12 step folklore insists is a deadly disease. But then the real agenda of the 12 steps is not to ever end your addiction, but to switch it to the 12 steps...meetings in perpetuity, sponsorship, daily compacts with your higher power for symptomatic release of your "disease" albeit on a twenty-four hour basis, are not a program for ending your addiction, but a recipe for relapse, and life long involvement in the 12 step cult.

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You dread citing Wikipedia, however, you do...time constraints aside. In my interactions with 12 steppers I've come to find, ignorance of the details is perfectly consistent with serenity of the mind.

The majority of 12 steppers I deal with have shown a decided inability to accept any information about the program that casts it in a negative light, no matter how truthful and well sourced that information may be. As I say to them I say to you...believe whatever you need to, however the real truth of the issue may not coincide with your beliefs. The figure cited of three to five percent long term sobriety [three years or more] are taken from AAs own Triennial Surveys. Only in the closed feedback loop of the 12 stepper is a 97% failure rate considered a stunning success.

Failure is success...George Orwell would be amazed. Your interested in where my data comes from...spare me.

Your only interest is in self-validation that the program works, nothing more. "There is no accurate way to provide data because AA has no opinion on outside issues, does not wish to engage in controversy and neither endorses or opposes any causes". Bullshit!

Spoken, or I should say recited like a true 12 stepper.

Next you'll tell me with that situational 12 step sincerity, "its spiritual, not religious". AA, Na, Ca, et al insinuate themselves into every major decision on so-called "treatment" and the perpetuation of the pseudo-scientific "disease model of addiction".

This is done through numerous front groups, and the addiction treatment industry...your friendly rehab. The 12 steps is about the perpetuation of the 12 steps, and nothing more. As for myself I've attended many meetings, and have overcome addiction, without any 12 step help. I continue to work in the field of addiction. I hope you understand that this isn't about you on a personal level.

If you've managed to remain sober because of the program, or in spite of it...that's your personal business. As for myself and the people I deal with: self-efficacy, logic, reason and the ability to rely on your own willpower and self-judgment;

Rather then a tenuous reliance on an unseen higher-power, sublimation to a group, decision making by committee and sponsors, meetings in perpetuity, and continued identification as an addict, are the means by which an addiction, any addiction, can be overcome. The 12 steps have managed to achieve worldwide notoriety solely on the uncritical goodwill of non-members who don't see past the illusion of the so-called addicted helping each other. The truth of the 12 steps and the addiction treatment industry is to indoctrinate the 12 stepper into the disease concept of addiction.

The member now has an incurable disease, is powerless, and can never hope to gain self-control...the very idea of self-control is blasphemy to the program Never mind that every single premise upon which the 12 steps is founded, has been shown to be demonstrably false, from the disease concept itself, to how to treat the addict among everything else it gets wrong...that's why I maintain that for the 12 steps failure is success.

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My dislike for all 12 step programs has to do with their anti-intellectual, anti-science and situational absolutist nature.

I find, far too often, that the steps, and the disease model of addiction work against the members long term interests.

Turning them into perpetual diseased victims, always a moment away from relapse...I deal with too many 12 steppers for who this has become a self-fulfilling prophesy. I believe in empowerment, not powerlessness, self-direction, not group direction.

I believe in moving on with your life, and not identifying your self as a lifelong, diseased addict.

And I believe that people possess the inner strength to overcome any addiction, they just require some short term positive direction to help them in attaining that goal. I'm not a Scientologist.

I suspect you ask that question because of their narconon drug program.

I find their approach to be as misinformed as any 12 step program, and perhaps even more harmful. In closing, I hope you don't take my position as a personal attack.

My disagreement is with the program, and their methods, not individual members...I sincerely wish you all the best.

And the same to you.

I enjoyed our discussion, I must say that other than voting, it was the highlight of my day :)

Sorry, but if there's anything I have even less hope for than AA, it's affirmations (from personal observation of how ineffective they are with people who stick religiously to them for years, putting up post-it notes all over their house and mirrors to remind themselves over and over during the day, etc.). I don't know your situation and you may say they worked for you personally, but I can also show you individuals who say they got a great deal of benefit from AA.

I don't know enough about AA to say for sure that it's a good or bad idea, and there are probably much better alternatives, but the fact that you're suggesting affirmations instead doesn't inspire confidence.

If this is true - then this is big - i have many friends who are in aa

If they're in AA, and it's working for them, I wouldn't bother to enlighten them.

While I'm not a fan of AA, it's not going to harm them in any serious way. Why bother taking a chance screwing up their recovery if it's working for them?

I just mean that it's a big part of my life, i'm not in the business of taking away people's safety net

Hello everyone, my name is vajav and i'm a reddit addict

You and me both, brother :D




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