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JP Morgan: "Thanks for the $25 billion, whaddya think of my new toys?" : business

What is amazing about these modern day robbers, is that they have so little sense of public relations.

Why give a fuck when there is zero consequence.

Seriously, if you don't like big corporations making and spending money, maybe you shouldn't give them money?

Yes, I believe in a proactive public. Boycott JPM Chase, for many, many, reasons..

What is amazing about these modern day robbers, is that they have so little sense of DECENCY. FTFY

What is amazing is that anyone thinks these guys care about your standards of decency.

During the intoxicating times of the internet boom years back, some of us engineers at start-ups had dreams of making it big.

We were driven by the saying, "he who has the most gold rules!" That is until I started to interact with investment bankers and found how naive we were.

They proclaimed to me like a creed etched in stone, "He who has the most gold makes the rules ".

They saw laws not as ethical or moral limits, but the means to achieve a permanent competitive advantage.

There was no moral compass for these guys.

They were simply driven by the relentless pursuit of money and the symbols of that wealth, the most prized of which is the private jet.

Sounds like a guy who didn't have his loan approved.

My TARP loan for $30 squintillion wasn't approved, either.

Damn them!

Actually, they wanted to loan out money.

That's why some of them were mingling with the engineers.

Some of the developers were early founders of the start-up and therefore had tons of options.

But since they weren't vested yet, the IBs (bankers) tried to convince them they could have their cake and eat it too.

The bank would effectively lend them the cash against the value of the future options.

Their sales pitch didn't work though because they assumed we thought like them.

They tried to make us think we could buy those BMW's now.

But looking through their product sales sheets you could see you would be royally screwed if the future stock price doesn't go stratospheric.

The bank was going to win either way though.

They tried to trap some people.

But most didn't fall for it, as far as I know.

They saw laws not as ethical or moral limits, but the means to achieve a permanent competitive advantage. There you go, exactly why we should have a free market instead of naively attempting to use government to "regulate" corporations.

These laws are just used by the rich and powerful to attain a permanent competetive advantage.

If they want that in a free market, they can only do so by continuously innovating and managing better than anybody else.

The free market is a myth.

In this economy, the powerful are in a sense more free than the rest.

Corporations are the most powerful entities.

Government can be used to regulate the corporations who use their power to maintain a permanent competitive advantage over the market.

Exactly why we should have a free market instead of naively attempting to use government to "regulate" corporations. In a "true free market" free of government control, there would no government support for the legally-fictitious entity called a corporation, or for the financial-shield called "limited liability". Of course, you'd also have roving groups of mercenaries taking out competitors & crushing uppity working peons, but why should that get in the way of your free market fantasy?

Stories like these HAVE TO be a diversion from what's really going on.

Its just too convenient for this to appear one week after AIG.

Let's not talk about the trillion dollars announced last week.

Let's talk about this instead.

What's that? They're giving 0.1% of the money we gave them out as bonuses?

I'm outraged I say!

Ummm, what trillion dollar announcement last week?

[deleted]

Pssst. He almost certainly was fully aware of that, and was merely playing the part of a successfully distracted MSM viewer.

;)

Which trillion? We're getting to the point where saying "the US govt spent a trillion" is a daily occurrance. The 'stimulus' bill?

The 'toxic assets' deal?

Or have I missed a few trillion in the past week?

I'm kinda getting the feeling that we are in one of two positions, either the government has absolute and complete control over every aspect of this situation and is using the economy as a means to get something we don't yet know about done, or alternatively they have lost all control and are using this bullshit as a way to distract us from asking any real questions. Most likely it's the second one.

Option 3: The government coffers are and always has been a source of free money for the wealthy elite and its use as such as only recently become more obvious than usual.

Or the almost infinite other possibilities exceedingly more complex and less black and white.

Public Opinion. People forget often and are distracted even more often.

Keep distracting them and they keep forgetting. At least there is a vegetated roof garden though.

At least there is a vegetated roof garden though. classic.

If you're going to bitch every time a company buys a corporate jet, don't complain when all the domestic manufacturing jobs in aerospace disappear.

Upmodded because the truth hurts

I only use my odd dollars to pay for expenses and I use my even dollars to pay for the jets and caviar.

You loaned me odd dollars. Money is imaginary, and in so far as it will be spent it will be spent someplace.

If we don't buy planes with it it will pay for jobs in another sector.

Corrections hurt because the less necessary jobs get cut.

Stop being practical.

We covet what we see every day (Clarice).

Seeing these rich fuckers and their squanderous, vulgar jets in the news on a daily basis makes us angry.

I don't care if it's rational or fair.

What I'm getting tired of is listening to people say, "Just one more thing and the pitch forks and torches are coming out." Oh ya?

Really? They aren't and the bankers don't care.

They've already established the "angry mob" in the main stream media and are running stories of death threats to employees or AIG.

Just try and do something about it.

You are already associated angry mobs and people who make death threats.

My torch is dipped in kerosene.

I'm just waiting for someone to lead the mob.

Got a link to a good torch building website?

One would think that would be required reading these days.

JPM didn't even want the bailout, so who gives a shit?

You paying attention?

I'm talking... G5, Pecker!

That's how you can roll.

No more frequent flyer bitch miles for my boy!

Oh yeah! Playa...

Playa! Big dick playa!

JPM claims they'll pay the TARP loan back in full before they even make a payment for the jets or the hangar.

Some banks actually made it through this madness fairly unscathed and don't need the government's money.

The TARP funds were still pushed on them so it didn't appear that that TARP funding was a "sign of weakness" and could promote huge stock sell-offs if only certain companies took the money.

Lol yeah -- I read that.

"No TARP money will be used..." OF COURSE IT WON'T, YOU FUCKING CRETINS, because you'll be using the TARP cash to pay for shit that you should be using your own goddamn money for.

You apparently quit reading shortly after that and didn't get to the point where JPM stated they would PAY BACK the TARP loan with THEIR OWN MONEY before paying for the jets and the hanger with THEIR OWN MONEY.

Here's a thought: maybe a publicly traded company shouldn't use it's stockholders money for such a ridiculously ostentatious expense. The world is in a depression created largely by the greed and/or management failures of these "masters" of high finance. Perhaps the douchebags should be flying coach, eh?

It's dumb...but that's their choice...I can't stop you from buying a ridiculous ( http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/images/gizmodo/2008/09/dj-mobile-car.JPG ) as such, if your doing with your own cash. These types of decision will bite them in the ass later.

Especially when this whole crisis will wake up a lot of people.

People will not put up for it long and these companies will die out. personally I hope they buy 10 of them.

Will help boost my field...

Your own cash? I have to agree with jump_monkey.

As a stock holder wanting the best return on my investment frivolous spending when alternative abound is a bad move.

I also question the layoffs like at CAT.

How can a company announce 20,000 layoffs and not foresee any change to its operations and claim it will result in higher profitability?

As a stock holder I would have to assume that the 20,000 extra employees must not have been needed to begin with if we can just lay em off and keep trucking along.

So why hire them in the first place.

Shoddy management decisions?

So what happens to the TARP money?

It goes back in the US Treasury for Congress to waste on something else.

Or possibly, if the bill was written as such, it is reloaned to another institution within the TARP program.

I was coming in to post exactly what you said.

JPM didn't need the TARP money. These reporters need to focus on the main issues regarding inflation, the trillions being created/printed by the Fed and the Geithner Mortgage Security plan.

Those are two huge programs that are going to cost trillions (with a T).

This is money being created out of thin air.

That is scary. I don't want to be a chicken little but that is much more important than JPM buying a couple of jets and building an eco friendly hangar.

[deleted]

When did JPM ask for money?

... before they even make a payment for the jets or the hangar Interesting.

They took out a loan from themselves?

Isn't Gulfstream made in the US?

If so, how's this so different than the Gov't handing out money to all the Obama pork projects?

Exactly. Gulfstream is hurting in this economy like just practically everyone else demonstrated by its recent lay-offs of 1,200 employees.

When is the last time an investment bank made a declaration that wasn't a lie?

If they're going to be given money but be closely scrutinized as to how they spend it, isn't this an alternate way of federal government buying controlling stake in those companies?

This man gets it

No, not at all. That logic doesn't apply when you talk about strings-attached funding for the states to end-run the Constitution;

Why would it work that way when interfering with private enterprise?

Then they shouldn't take the money.

When I loan money I keep tabs on the guy who borrowed it.

If they are irresponsible they are risking my money, which is not theirs until I am repaid. Stop pretending that communism is a credible threat in the world and start regulating these asses.

Seems like media at it's finest.

Jp Morgan throws millions of dollars of it's OWN money into the American economy and outcome the pitchforks.

Don't downmod him, he is right.

JPMorganChase was one of the banks who didn't get caught in the subprime mess.

The only reason they got TARP was to buy WAMU which was essentially doing the government a favor.

And they bought Bear Stearns right at the beginning of this crisis, with the treasury department basically forcing them into it against their better judgment.

Treasury should go ahead and buy the plane for them as a thank you note.

Don't forget that some banks like this have tried to work with Treasury to insulate consumers against faltering banks, but what does congress do?

Tries to take away their pay, bitter that bankers make a lot of money.

Funny how during the Great Depression JPMorgan bought stocks in companies at the bottom of the market in effect consolidating major corporations under its wing.

Seems as though history is repeating itself yet again. It's strange...I get the feeling this whole economic collapse was a setup just to let the financial elite consolidate their power even more. "Vulture Capitalism" at it's best :/

You are going to have to support this.

How did treasury force JP Morgan to buy bear sterns?

And more important, how did they force this upon them against their better judgment?

There was a great, long, Wall Street Journal article that came out about it in the weeks that followed.

Several times JP Morgan Chase tried to walk away from the deal because there just wasn't enough information to make them feel it was a safe buy.

The government kept pressuring them and added concessions like that they would get the Bear Stearns headquarters building even if the deal fell through.

I'll reply to myself here with the link if I find it.

Ha, it was easier to find on Reddit than it was on the WSJ site! http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121202057232127889.html

Come on America, when you get screwed this many times, you start to like it.

Comments like, "no TARP money would be used to make any payments for new jets or jet hangar improvements" are really an insult to the public's intelligence. It's like they think we're so stupid that we don't realize money is fungible.

EDIT: I take my comment back

I think they want to make people mad.

It's all part of their plan.

With superior cabin amenities, an optional stateroom, and 12 interior designs to choose from. Optional stateroom?

At this point, I'd say go for it.

JP Morgan needs to watch Big Bang Theory Seriously.

This is what happens when you grow up rich. Middle class people learn in their 20s.

If your unemployed ass borrows money from your friend/dad and you blow it on concert tickets and week long benders you are going to catch hell. Rich people never learned this simple reality.

They borrowed money, now we get to follow them around and bitch about how they are spending it. It was the subject of a recent episode of Big Bang Theory.

The hot neighbor borrowed money from the douche roommate.

She had the good graces to reduce her frivolities until the money was paid back, which ultimately required some intervention from the protagonist, to return funds where they belonged.

We need to be the protagonists in this drama and go beat up the lazy ex boyfriend.

They have stated that the bail-out money will be payed back before any money is payed out on these jets.

So long as they can back that up, wtf is the problem? Unless and until they use the bail-out money to actually pay for these planes, this is a non-issue, and you're all following the shiny thing instead of paying attention to the real dangers, as many others in this thread have pointed out.

No TARP money will be used The idiot who said that needs to be fired.

Anyone with half a brain knows that if you don't buy the planes then you use that money for something else.

Now TARP funds will be used to do that something else.

You are the goddamn idiot.

They don't need the TARP funds, they will be returning the TARP funds.

Read some of the other comments in this thread before you make bullshit claims like this. I hate people with half knowledge who get uppity.

Slow down there skip.

Are you suggesting that money is fungible everywhere EXCEPT for the balance sheet of JPMorgan?

If the TARP funds are not needed then let The Dimon return those funds. Senator after Senator assured him that they would gladly accept the TARP funds back.

In fact Barney Frank told him that they'd amend any law as needed to allow anyone to pay back TARP funds any time they want. So, should every company on TARP be on an austerity budget?

I'd say yes. If they truly don't need it then send it back (both the Senate and House have said that would be welcome) and then they can spend their corporate funds however they want. The Dimon plays the game well but some us actually watched the hearings and we know the score.

JPM needs that 25billion and isn't about to give it back any time soon.

Their purchase of corporate jets is an extravagance the taxpayers should not need to subsidize.

Sadly, the government placed very few strings on the first round of TARP.

[deleted]

You claim they don't need them and then qualify your statements with two reasons why they took TARP funds.

Make up your mind.

What you call forced is actually need . Of course the TARP funds will be returned by 2013 (4 years from now) when the planes will be delivered but it just shows that they know their use of TARP funds will be over by then so lets plan on going back to our old ways right now.

[deleted]

JPM would have been 100% fine without TARP money.

BUT, in these tough times, they accepted the TARP funds for the 2 reasons I stated above. WTF does that mean Einstein.

The only interpretation is they didn't need the TARP money but they had two reasons to need it?

You silly fuck. they didn't need the TARP money, but they had to take it anyway, for the two reasons I listed. Let me give you an example because you seem to have much trouble understanding :) You have been in the desert for 1.5 days, haven't had any water at all.

You are really thirsty.

You NEED water. You obtain said water. You have been sitting in a resort for 1.5 days.

Your supermodel girlfriends comes by and gives you a bottle of water, and tells you "you must drink this to keep hydrated." You say, "no, I've had plenty.

I'm fine, I don't need this water at all." She starts stroking your cock through your shorts and says, well listen - do me a favor (and I'll do you one).

There's a lot of people around us taking pictures, and if we're seen holding these bottles of water, we'll make lots of money - really, it's best for both of us in the long run.

You say no again - you're doing fine in terms of money, and shit you've got a supermodel girlfriend who's now got her hand on your penis.

She says listen - do this for me, baby.

Please? So you say, ok fine, "I'll have the water." You obtain said water. There is no difference?

Yeah, you got the water in both cases.

But in the first you NEEDed the water.

In the second, you were forced to take it.

You naive motherfucker - Looks like you believe everything Wall Street claims.

They take TARP funds, claim they don't need them, threaten to return them but don't do so right away, and your interpretation is that they were forced to take them.

I hope you work on Wall Street because if you don't, you are an idiot.

At least if you work on Wall Street your tendency to give them a benefit of doubt after this financial shitstorm makes sense.

And if you don't work there, it makes sense as well because you don't seem to know what the fuck you are talking about and just professing academic knowledge.

Oh well, it makes sense both ways.

I just wasted my time. FYI - I've worked on Wall Street.

Got out in time.

I am so confused as to what you are saying - I am in the clear either way? Now, consider the situation here.

You're telling me that they just want to keep funds they don't need - funds that will in some way shape or form cause them to be closely attached to + monitored by the govt (165 mil, per contracts, is paid out...

Look at the populist reaction.

You're telling me that 25 bil will disappear?) I'm not naive, I don't think that anyone wants to give cash back.

I'm just saying that it's logical to give it back for a number of reasons - for PR, to remove restrictions, etc. FYI - I'm Warren Buffett, I know how these things work.

I'm getting at 25 billion dollars.

A little tiny chunk of that represents money from me that I am required to supply under threat of force (even lethal force). In my mind that changes everything.

I now have a very direct interest in how JPM spends my money.

I'll write and call my congress people to ask them to direct JPM's corporate activities on my behalf. However, if the government will release me from the obligation to pay my taxes then I couldn't care less what JPM does.

It is perhaps ironic that I am also a JPM shareholder.

And as a shareholder I have a totally different viewpoint because corporate jets can be seen as a competitive advantage. So I'm both the avaricious shareholder as well as angry populist.

I cheer The Dimon on even as I hope Barney Frank lands on him like a 197 lb gay congressman.

Slow down there skip.

Are you suggesting that money is fungible everywhere EXCEPT for the balance sheet of JPMorgan?

If the TARP funds are not needed then let The Dimon return those funds. Did you read the fucking article?

They are saying that they plan to return the funds in full before even making a payment on the jet.

Did you read my whole comment?

I'll make it shorter for you: TARP payback first--jets second.

Of course I read your whole comment.

I'm confused as to why you're making a point that is moot - JPMorgan is already planning to pay back all of the TARP money before purchasing jets.

Oh boy oh boy, I can't wait to pay my taxes this year.

/s

Let me see - to order one of these, you have to put a substantial down payment up-front and it takes years to receive it.

So, we can give up the money we have already spent (a substantial amount) or we can go ahead with the purchase and then use these for travel. I would guess that it cost about $2500 - $4000 per hour in the air.

If you have several people going to a meeting, it would beat the first class ticket prices and as a bonus you could avoid the lines at the airport!

GulfStream is an American company...so what's the problem?

If you're going to give money to a company to stimulate the economy, I think it's a bit unreasonable to be surprised when they spend it.

"No TARP Money was to be used" sounds alot to me like "No TARP Money was actually NEEDED in the first place"

Are we surprised?

Does it even really matter anymore?

Say, what does someone with a WaMu account (which is going to turn into a chase account) to do in this situation?

What else can you expect of the criminal and out of control "elite" and their bought and paid for puppets in government, combined with a zombified population.

Fair play? pfffft. Keep watching TV peeps!

They'll tell you how it is.

LOOOOL PS If no TARP money was used, it wasnt needed indeed!

I think those planes are the coolest shit around. http://www.gulfstream.com/gulfstreamg650/ Screw you peasants, I want one of those!

Who have I got to screw over to get one?

Am I too big to fail?

Can I get a bailout?

I wants me a Gulfstream 650!!

They shot looters during Katrina.

Maybe they can shoot these bastards out of the sky.

Saying JPM didn't want the bailout kinda makes me thing that their PR is doing pretty well.

If we don't let them buy their toys, they won't be able to keep employing these brilliant executives.

They aren't using TARP money for this.

They're using your $39 late payment fees.

Mothafuckers !

FTA: "Joseph Evangelisti, a spokesman for JPMorgan Chase, said no TARP money would be used to make any payments for new jets or jet hangar improvements.

" That reminds me of an episode of Curb your Enthusiasm in which larry david loans a friend 20 grand, then that friend proceeds to throw himself an elaborate birthday party.

He insists that he used "different money" to pay for the party than the money Larry David loaned him..

:-)

Joseph Evangelisti, a spokesman for JPMorgan Chase Anyone think this name is too good to be true?

[deleted]

You messed it up, correct Quote: is: Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos If you intentionally replaced "Kodos" with "Ron Paul", that's like saying that you believe he'd be exactly the same as Obama.

What strikes me as insane is NOT that these wankers are 'tone deaf' as the article says. They claim that 'No Tarp money will be used'.

This is either deception or outright idiocy. The people gave the TARP money to keep the institution alive. Its like saying, 'This blood transfusion recipient can indject heroin because none of the blood the heroin will be injected in was donated'

Someone has to build the planes and renovate the hangar...

Sounds like stimulus to me.

Basically we want them to pull a Palin;

Liquidate the aircraft and pay off their balance sheet.

(Put it on ebay)

Whine all you like, but you could have made a shitload of cash playing their stock today and would therefore have no hard feelings toward the obvious fact that America is being played like the fools we all are because you'd be getting rich right along those corporate assholes. that is all.




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