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Bogleheads :: View topic - Downloading music, movies, television shows

A response to a recent post about the "Curb Your Enthusiasm" episode titled "The Black Swan" had a link to the Web site ch131.com, where the show could be viewed and/or downloaded.

I don't know if that's a legal site, but discussions with younger folks tell me that virtually any and all copyrighted media are available for download. If entertainment/music/movie industry spokespeople are to be believed: (1) This is for the most part illegal;

And (2) It can deny the artists, performers and other creative types the royalties they're entitled to. The arguments I hear in favor of pirated music and movies are: (1) If it's so easy, it must be okay--the want you to do it. (2) Publishers/producers make lots of money, so it's okay to take their stuff without paying for it. (3) Record companies take advantage of artists, so it's okay to take advantage of record companies. I find these unpersuasive--if you drove down the alley behind the liquor store, and noticed that somebody left a case of Courvoisier on the loading dock, would you take it because you probably won't get caught and because the distiller is (probably) a wealthy company? I'm not judging anyone.

Just interested in any thoughts on the subject.

I had the same thoughts when reading the post.

If its an illegal site (and I have no idea if it is or not), they are being quite brazen about the whole thing.

Actually a lot of over the air network TV shows are available at their respective websites.

I'd be real surprised if HBO and the other pay networks are giving it away though.

In the USA and most of Western Europe, file sharing is for the most part illegal.

Sorry, them's the breaks. Is it unethical? I suppose it depends upon how you define "ethical". I've heard the argument that "I haven't stolen anything.

All I have is a bunch of data that just happens to duplicate the ones and zeroes that make up code of Adobe Photoshop CS4 - Adobe still has every single install disk that they burned, so show me where the property theft occurred." I've also heard that Thomas Jefferson Quote: "He who receives an idea from me receives [it] without lessening [me], as he who lights his [candle] at mine receives light without darkening me.” used to justify file sharing. Well, these days if an author, artist, or programmer wants his/her content available to be distributed freely, (s)he can do so.

It is true that creators may be ripped off by the media companies, but that doesn't justify me taking it without paying for it.

The fact that the creator has chosen to make their work available in this way implies that (s)he did not intend for it to be freely distributed. I think $699 is a ridiculous price to pay for Photoshop CS4.

That doesn't mean I'm entitled to download it on a warez torrent.

I could purchase a cheaper, older version.

Or, I could download GIMP, which is an open source freeware program that is intended to be freeware. Yeah, I know I'm a sucker, but I think creators are entitled to compensation for their work and time. None of the authors who worked on the latest Bogleheads book took any personal compensation.

Does that mean I'm entitled to scan the book and distribute it to anybody with a BitTorrent client?

I'd just be ripping off some silly old National Constitution Center, and who even knows what that is anyway? It's too bad that citizens have little knowledge of our Constitution.

I personally believe that U.S.

Americans are unable to do so because, uh, some, people out there in our nation don't have history books and, uh, I believe that our, uh, education like such as, uh, Abe Washington and, uh, the Founding Fathers, everywhere like such as, and, I believe that they should, our education over here in the U.S.

Should help the U.S., uh, or, uh, should help us learn about the Declaration of the Constitution, so we will be able to build up our future, for our children.

I think to a great extent, it's simple dissatisfaction with the way things are sold to the consumer which drives much of this illegal downloading.

Let me relate a story about student software. When I was in college, I was introduced to two of the three main CAD programs via classes, but the third was not to be taught in my sequence.

I went ahead and purchased a student version of this third CAD program in order to familiarize myself with this product. The program cost me $150, where professional seats cost multiple thousands of dollars (a different program we were given for free cost $25,000 per seat).

What I did not realize at the time of purchase, was that the model year of the student software was not representative of the actual version.

They would hold the student version back one year, so "Student 2009" is really the 2008 version. In addition, there was ZERO support with the student program, and it was hardware locked for one key.

My hard drive gave up the ghost about a week after I installed my version, and I could not reinstall on a new hard drive.

I whined and whined, and after a few hours on the phone (all the while being told there is no support for students) they caved and gave me a new key;

With a firm admonishment that they were done with me. To top it off, this program also has an Educational version, which was installed on some computers at school.

When I took some files in to school to work on, the Educational version converted them from Student to Educational, thereby locking them so I couldn't work on them on my home machine. While the program was head and shoulders above the two we were introduced to in school, the way they treated me as a PAYING customer pissed me off.

Thankfully I have no need of this program at this point, but I would have no qualms about pirating it if no other legal software could accomplish what I wanted after that treatment. The same can be said of eBooks.

Many novels are not available in digital form, or they have ridiculous prices, or they are poorly OCR'd and ridden with typographical errors.

So many people download better versions off of the darknet, although those versions don't meet my personal standard of quality. When companies stop intentionally crippling their product, and actually take pride in what they produce, sales will shoot through the roof. Just take a look at what happened with The World of Goo .

I think that we are in a different world and things may need to change to adapt to it. Remember there are many things that are illegal that folks engage in. Littering. Underage drinking Driving with no license/insurance Marijuana use Prostitution. (some would even say all these things should be legal) Think of this.

If I want a free song I don't even have to steal it. It can listen to it on youtube for free. (some may call that stealing but it seems different) Look at how much information and work is done on the web for free. (want to find out about the sinking of the Titanic?

Just Google it) On the plus side.

It appears to make performers work harder on their tours.

(despite all the talk of stealing I haven't seen a poor performer yet) If you take folks like Golf, Tennis pros.

They make more from endorsements then actually winning their sports. (this may be the way musicians eventually go) On the negative side.

Its clear the there is a lopsided playing field.

With the record companies trying to make examples of folks. After all, before the internet.

Whats the toughest penalty someone received for putting a CD under their coat and walking out of a store. (that's stealing music too) Thanks SP-diceman

In some cases piracy may work towards the artists, in their benefit.

For example if they have a very low advertising/promotion budget, their work can be easily made popular this way.

The problem is that downloads can hardly be converted into sales, since the media/product has already been consumed, just hardcore fans, go out to buy it I guess..

Some people like to have the box of a dvd or album

The old adage about the economics of content when it's so easy to make a "pefect copy" doesn't ring true for me.

Off-brand, off-shore, torrent-sites, etc feel like counterfeit watches.

They are soft focus, tinny music, lack meta-data, lack context, etc.

The audience for this stuff are people with no money anyway, young people and developing countries. Make media available, organized well and at high quality and the vast majority of people with means will participate.

You saw the same concerns with every new technology starting with piano rolls, to the vcr, to the DVR etc.

And every time the content providers have overreacted and the new technology *adds* value and revenue. Here's an example people watch *more* commercials with DVR's.

Woulda' thunk it? http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11....tings.html

What drives me nuts (and drives me to download) is content that is not for sale, and never will be for sale, in my region.

Just try keeping up with Dr.

Who while living in the US!

We can wait for DVDs, but when they come out with region 2 only, they're pretty useless.

I will not speak on downloading music or movies, but with regard to shows that air on cable (and in most cases, over the air prime time channels), I have no ethical problems downloading shows that I have already 'paid for' via my cable tv subscription.

In my view I am simply time-shifting content a la tivo. Having said that, broadband is so fast, and bittorrent is so good, I can literally download an album (creative commons!) in 2 min, a tv show in 15 min, or a HD BBC documentary in an hour. If content creators do not embrace this technology, they will get left behind.

Quote: : If entertainment/music/movie industry spokespeople are to be believed... Don't make that mistake - these are the guys who invented a special type of accounting to steal from content producers that was so sleazy it gets it own name - Hollywood Accounting . Content 'piracy' (as distinct from the real kind on the high seas), isn't a problem for people who make things .

If I print a book, make a pill, sew a dress, etc, and I can sell these for more than it cost me, I'm a successful businessman.

As long as some Somali pirate doesn't seize my cargo, I'm good to go. However, if what I do is create information which is then essentially free to distribute, I have a real problem if I try to adopt the old business model of trying to sell my information the same way I would sell a thing.

When becomes obvious to everyone that my information, be it music, movies, software, etc, can be copied for free, they are a lot less likely to want to pay for it.

After all, it costs me nothing to give someone a copy, so why should they pay more than a nominal fee?

My problem is that I haven't adopted an economically stable business model where I'm paid up front for the creation rather than trying to make money off of 'sales'. Much of the music and movie industry is based on distribution and sale of content, rather than production (which is done by the artists, and for which they are mostly paid quite poorly).

Turns out that thanks to the internet, the business of distribution and sale of content is basically no longer needed.

So like any major industry facing extinction, the RIAA/MPAA buy themselves laws with their monopoly profits to try to legislate their flawed business model into perpetuity and criminalize anyone who copies anything without paying.

The sooner they realize that suing/extorting their customers isn't a valid business model, the better.

In the meanwhile, I won't shed a tear for these idiots and their dying industry.

We've decided to withhold your next paycheck.

You don't mind working for free, do ya? Oh, it's ok to do it to artists and their respective companies, though...




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