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The Enneagram Institute Discussion Board - how are 4w5s are in relationships?

I wonder if anyone can relate, especially the females.

In a relationship i tend to be obsessed about giving the other person space.

But when i dont get the assurance i secretly need, i grow quietly sullen.

I try not to show it because i want to put on a strong, independent front (which is my ideal self), but deep inside me, i am terrified on not being vaildated enough or abandoned (even though sometimes its all in my mind).

I get depressed when i am too caught up with these thoughts.

In a way i feel emotionally needy.

I try to avoid confronting the other party and will take it all in and pretend to be ok until i cannot handle the build-up anymore.

I tend to try and engage in my personal 'tragedies' secretly..

Not the most healthy.. On another hand i am a commitment phobe and i feel independent. Does it even make sense?

To be obsessed with freedom and independence yet (secretly) emotionally needy..

I can relate alot.

I love being independant and free, but if I'm with someone I want validation and if I don't get it it bothers me alot.

I don't exactly get depressed, but it makes me try much harder to get the validation I think they could give me. It's like hiding an inner self (maybe it is).

The weak side you don't want to express, but comes out when you feel stressed or down.

It's slightly child-like as well, wanting to be told you're good and that you wont be abandoned. 1w2 or 6w7 INTJ sx/sp Power Animal: Panther/Dog Hedonist - Self-confident/Mecurial Orphan/Magician/Jester ~apparantly I have a few blind spots~ http://behindthemirror.smackjeeves.com/comics/498464/1-1/

I think it depends on the length of the relationship.

I can definitely relate to what you are saying though, xia.

When I am starting a relationship I act like I don't need the other person.

I avoid getting mushy and act like they have no effect on my emotional state.

But all the while I'm hoping they will tell how much they care.

I want the guy to tell me how wonderful I am without me telling him how wonderful he is.

I think I play hard to get with my heart. I think 4w5 females play the cool girl too much.

"You can't hang out tonight, no problem." "You didn't call me...no worries.

I'm a big girl." "You're not sure you want a relationship...I'm down with just dating then." This is how I used to be, but no more.

If a guy can't give me what I want, he's gone. Tell me about the relationship you are in. 4w5 so/sx 4w5 so/sx

I look forward to the freedom I find in a romantic relationship to release all the pent up love that simmers beneath the surface of my projected cool (even if it doesn't look 'cool', it is nevertheless a cooling) toward the object of my affection.

I somehow become a behemoth of confidence and personal security;

I attribute this to allowing myself to relax;

Someone likes me, now let's see if they love me and [blocked due to guideline #4 violation] all if they don't.

The start of the relationship creates an atmospheric safe-haven where I can finally be as much myself as I am when I am alone.

I have very high standards for my daily interactions with said person;

I demand maturity and deference (appreciation) and reciprocation and independence and growth and I also demand that those demands are made of me.

I give my person ample space, and expect the same, but [traditionally, at least] instead of that meaning that each person holes up in solitude it seems to present itself as an option that can be comfortably taken up without worry about offending the object. I am not commitment-phobic in the slightest;

I don't wonder if there could be something better out there.

Instead I want to make what I have that better thing.

I've never been able to deeply empathize with people who are commitment-'phobic' or who engage in affairs;

I would probably opine that they aren't being careful enough with their feelings or in their choice of a partner, or that their priorities in general have been perverted (i.e.

People that spend their lives desperately trying to fill up their ever-gaping S * hole).

Perhaps there is more to it than that?

Fill me in. *S is for Sensory

Quote: : I wonder if anyone can relate, especially the females.

In a relationship i tend to be obsessed about giving the other person space. I do this, but as the relationship grows I find I can get somewhat cloying if I'm not careful. But when i dont get the assurance i secretly need, i grow quietly sullen.

I try not to show it because i want to put on a strong, independent front (which is my ideal self), but deep inside me, i am terrified on not being vaildated enough or abandoned (even though sometimes its all in my mind).

I get depressed when i am too caught up with these thoughts.

In a way i feel emotionally needy. I tend to feel emotionally needy in relationships, whether or not I am actually acting that way. i try to avoid confronting the other party and will take it all in and pretend to be ok until i cannot handle the build-up anymore.

I tend to try and engage in my personal 'tragedies' secretly..

Not the most healthy.. I am overly confrontive in relationships at times.

I think I might even try to scare the other person away.

I have begun to attribute some of this to a very strong sx variant.

I have to feel like they understand where I'm coming from most of the time, and if not, I have a tendency to try and 'push their buttons' to get a reaction.

I haven't been able to decide whether this is something to be proud of or not lol... On another hand i am a commitment phobe and i feel independent. Does it even make sense?

To be obsessed with freedom and independence yet (secretly) emotionally needy.. I suppose it doesn't make logical sense, but if you're like me you would like to have someone you could share everything with...someone who'd follow you into your fantasies.

But, you're afraid no one will ever be able to completely satisfy those desires, as they are mostly unrealistic.

So, you try and cope by seeing yourself as completely alone in the world.

I don't usually do that stuff.

It seems like too much trouble, too much confusion.

If I'm really into the person, the feelings are intense, I want to spend time with them,I want them to know what I need, and I want to know that they're in the same place as me before I make too much of an investment, either in terms of time or emotions. Similarly with space.

I never pretend to want space or distance that I don't really want.

It makes things that much more difficult when I really do want space to clear my head or figure things out.

Actually, few things irritate me more in a relationship than when I want my space and the other person just treats it as intimacy issues or a ploy for more attention from them. I wonder if the 3 wing might do more of what you describe?

Not re-typing you or anything, just remembering some 3w4s I've known.

Sometimes the intimacy fears give way to a bit more cat-and-mouse, and a greater tendency to try to "play it cool." Maybe some 4w3s want to confirm/deny? --- "The whole history of modern poetry is a running commentary on the following brief philosophical text: all art should become science and all science art;

Poetry and philosophy should be made one." -Friedrich Schlegel

Quote: : I don't usually do that stuff.

It seems like too much trouble, too much confusion.

If I'm really into the person, the feelings are intense, I want to spend time with them,I want them to know what I need, and I want to know that they're in the same place as me before I make too much of an investment, either in terms of time or emotions. Similarly with space.

I never pretend to want space or distance that I don't really want.

It makes things that much more difficult when I really do want space to clear my head or figure things out.

Actually, few things irritate me more in a relationship than when I want my space and the other person just treats it as intimacy issues or a ploy for more attention from them. I wonder if the 3 wing might do more of what you describe?

Not re-typing you or anything, just remembering some 3w4s I've known.

Sometimes the intimacy fears give way to a bit more cat-and-mouse, and a greater tendency to try to "play it cool." Maybe some 4w3s want to confirm/deny? --- "The whole history of modern poetry is a running commentary on the following brief philosophical text: all art should become science and all science art;

Poetry and philosophy should be made one." -Friedrich Schlegel If you're talking to me, amber_headlights, I don't think you read what I wrote.

I specifically said that I don't 'play it cool' in a relationship, but that I project a more cool version of my molten feelings of love towards the people in my everyday life because I don't think they could handle the outpouring.

When I'm in the safe-haven of a committed long-term relationship, however, I relax and let it all flow freely.

And I certainly said nothing about pretending...

There's no pretending or manipulating here.

I seek perfection, not twisting.

Quote: : Se Auton If you're talking to me, amber_headlights, I don't think you read what I wrote.

I specifically said that I don't 'play it cool' in a relationship, but that I project a more cool version of my molten feelings of love towards the people in my everyday life because I don't think they could handle the outpouring.

When I'm in the safe-haven of a committed long-term relationship, however, I relax and let it all flow freely.

And I certainly said nothing about pretending...

There's no pretending or manipulating here.

I seek perfection, not twisting.

Amber_headlights Quote: : I wonder if the 3 wing might do more of what you describe?

Not re-typing you or anything, just remembering some 3w4s I've known.

Sometimes the intimacy fears give way to a bit more cat-and-mouse, and a greater tendency to try to "play it cool." Maybe some 4w3s want to confirm/deny? haha, i don't try to do the confirm/deny thing, it is just that i am perpetually trying get my confirmation.

I think i may be hard to convince because of my own lack of confidence.

I hide not because i want to play games, but because i am too afraid to state what i want for fear of imposing on the other and thus being abandoned. Definately not a 4w3 though, i practically run away from attention! I have a hard time figuring relationships out.

I believe that most of the problems stem from me feeling not worthy of being loved.

I also live in fear that the other part will find this out and either take advantage of this fact, or leave me. pinkladyapples Quote: :

I didn't assume, that's why I asked.

An assumption is a conclusion.

Quote: : I am in a relatively new relationship for around 3 mths.

His sociable nature and popularity does make me feel a tad insignificant.

I feel terrible that we give each other too much space.

However, in my previous relationship, i struggled because of a lack of space..

Hmmm.. anyway, i guess i always want what i dont have. That's very true for me I have to say, this whole topic infact, so much so I actually feel I am beginning to doubt my type for the first time in ages.

Maybe it's disintegration. In any case, the best thing to do is to state what you want and compromise with the partner until you're both satisfied.

Don't leave things to sit and stew, takes the nutrition out of it?

(I feel a little hypocritical because I rarely complain until it's too much, then I explode in a rush of emotion that's normally confused). 1w2 or 6w7 INTJ sx/sp Power Animal: Panther/Dog Hedonist - Self-confident/Mecurial Orphan/Magician/Jester ~apparantly I have a few blind spots~ http://behindthemirror.smackjeeves.com/comics/498464/1-1/

Quote: : Se Auton I didn't assume, that's why I asked.

An assumption is a conclusion. Hmm...if it wasn't an assumption, why did you proceed to declare (qualified or not) that I hadn't understood your point, and further clarify your position rather than just asking if I was talking to you and waiting for a response?

Not a big deal, but there definitely wasn't a suspension of presuppositions there.

--- "The whole history of modern poetry is a running commentary on the following brief philosophical text: all art should become science and all science art;

Poetry and philosophy should be made one." -Friedrich Schlegel

Quote: : haha, i don't try to do the confirm/deny thing, it is just that i am perpetually trying get my confirmation.

I think i may be hard to convince because of my own lack of confidence.

I hide not because i want to play games, but because i am too afraid to state what i want for fear of imposing on the other and thus being abandoned. Definately not a 4w3 though, i practically run away from attention! Oh yeah, I didn't mean that you were a 4w3, but all types feel the influence of both wings, just some are more pronounced than others.

For example, my husband is a 7w8 and always ties on 7 and 8, and most of the time, you don't see the 6, but I've also known sevens that maybe lean towards 6 or 8 but are much closer to the middle and you more frequently see the influence of both wings. My half-sister is a 3w4, but her 4 wing is very strong.

When my dad came to visit, he was telling me she'd finally found a really great guy after a number of failed relationships.

However, his seeming perfection caused her tremendous anxiety about her own imperfections, but also that he would see through her persona.

As she puts it, "I'm afraid he's going to find out I'm not perfect." She considered breaking up with him so he couldn't find out that she wasn't as talented, confident, charming, etcetera as the image she projected.

I think a lot of threes, when they keep distance, do cat-and-mouse stuff or have intimacy fears it's because they're afraid of seeming imperfect or not living up to the image they've created for themselves. --- "The whole history of modern poetry is a running commentary on the following brief philosophical text: all art should become science and all science art;

Poetry and philosophy should be made one." -Friedrich Schlegel

Quote: : I think a lot of threes, when they keep distance, do cat-and-mouse stuff or have intimacy fears it's because they're afraid of seeming imperfect or not living up to the image they've created for themselves.

Quote: : how are 4w5s are in relationships? Terrible. Quote: : I wonder if anyone can relate, especially the females.

In a relationship i tend to be obsessed about giving the other person space.

But when i dont get the assurance i secretly need, i grow quietly sullen.

I try not to show it because i want to put on a strong, independent front (which is my ideal self), but deep inside me, i am terrified on not being vaildated enough or abandoned (even though sometimes its all in my mind).

I get depressed when i am too caught up with these thoughts.

In a way i feel emotionally needy.

I try to avoid confronting the other party and will take it all in and pretend to be ok until i cannot handle the build-up anymore.

I tend to try and engage in my personal 'tragedies' secretly..

Not the most healthy.. On another hand i am a commitment phobe and i feel independent. Does it even make sense?

To be obsessed with freedom and independence yet (secretly) emotionally needy.. That's totally understandable.

The four is, after all, a very contradictory type.

I can definitely relate to what you're saying, and I've found that in order to resolve this issue, we must acknowledge ourselves as individuals, but also that we can engage, relate to and serve others.

I stated in another post that we must know that we're not alone, but I'm unsure if this is the right way to put it.

In a way, we are alone, and it is the four that epitomizes this the most of all the types.

This doesn't mean we should serve only self-interest, but that we should be strong within ourselves and not need external validation.

However, this is difficult, especially for image triaders and social (and, to a lesser extent, sexual) variants.

I take it that you want to be your own person but also be accepted by others.

This is where the four's integration to one is important.

Try to present yourself, and motivate your actions, more by what you think is the right thing to do, than by whether you think others will accept you.

In an intimate relationship, you have to determine whether the person you're with accepts that you are both individuals, and what your individual needs are.

It can sometimes very much be a matter of compromise, but it's important you both understand each other.

Amber_headlights Quote: : She considered breaking up with him so he couldn't find out that she wasn't as talented, confident, charming, etcetera as the image she projected.

I think a lot of threes, when they keep distance, do cat-and-mouse stuff or have intimacy fears it's because they're afraid of seeming imperfect or not living up to the image they've created for themselves. I can relate to that a lot.

Not only in romantic relationships, but with people in general.

I am a sp btw if that has any relation to this.

But with some friends i have learnt to relax and feel more comfortable with, i stop acting like the self-isolated depressed slient 4ish and can be like a child, skipping and excited by many things i see, flowers, rabbits..

Smiling... I am very aware when i act childishly- i sulk, i like being airy-fairy, in a flowery state of mind...

Sometimes i am ashamed of it but that is part of me..

Those are the times i dont feel like a 4.

I see 4s as someone who acts maturely (at least on the outside..) and it confuses people.

I am an artist and sometimes 'people whom im comfortable with enough to act silly' look at my art and writings and then look at me but the 2 things just doesn't gel to them.

To the extend that they question if i really write what i wrote.

I get confused too with my extremes, but like i said, i only allow myself to act in a certain way towards people i am comfortable with. But with others, i might consider keeping a distance for the 'mystery' factor, so as not to be found out.

Is this purely a 4w3 traid?

Perhaps it applies to 4w5s too..? On an unrelated note, do 4s act like the stereotypical 4 all the time?

I have my ideal self, the tragic, composed intellectual artist and to be vaildated as so by others.

Also to be someone elusive, untouchable, fleeting, hard to get hold on.

Seems to me that there are people who can stick to one image constantly, but i cant because there are 2 sides of me.

Confuses me sometimes, haha.

I am sx/sp, my girlfriend is sp/sx 4/5.

I am so all over her that i often drive her into hiding.

Ironically, I prefer people who aren't all over me, trying to get to know me, prying deep into my business.

However, the only people who get 'in' are the ones who come on like a freight train.

The others just fizzle out.

I guess I need the intrusion - if you let me take my time, I'll never come out.

Just in case/because I find that immediacy is sometimes important to the expression of my thoughts/because I wasn't going to be online later.

There could be a million reasons.

Try not to glorify your own judgment.

What's appears on the surface is, you should know by now, not always indicative of what's underneath, and just because you might be manipulative and pretending in your communication, and/or most other creatures you run across are of a similar ilk, that doesn't mean everyone is.

There's more to truth than your own experiences.

I suggest losing your blanket, Linus. Quote: : Quote: : Se Auton I didn't assume, that's why I asked.

An assumption is a conclusion. Hmm...if it wasn't an assumption, why did you proceed to declare (qualified or not) that I hadn't understood your point, and further clarify your position rather than just asking if I was talking to you and waiting for a response?

Not a big deal, but there definitely wasn't a suspension of presuppositions there.

--- "The whole history of modern poetry is a running commentary on the following brief philosophical text: all art should become science and all science art;

Poetry and philosophy should be made one." -Friedrich Schlegel

Quote: : Se Auton Just in case/because I find that immediacy is sometimes important to the expression of my thoughts/because I wasn't going to be online later.

There could be a million reasons.

Try not to glorify your own judgment.

What's appears on the surface is, you should know by now, not always indicative of what's underneath, and just because you might be manipulative and pretending in your communication, and/or most other creatures you run across are of a similar ilk, that doesn't mean everyone is.

There's more to truth than your own experiences.

I suggest losing your blanket, Linus. Are you always this fussy?

Because I could use some of your 'projected cool' now...

And it confuses people.

I am an artist and sometimes 'people whom im comfortable with enough to act silly' look at my art and writings and then look at me but the 2 things just doesn't gel to them.

To the extend that they question if i really write what i wrote.

I get confused too with my extremes, but like i said, i only allow myself to act in a certain way towards people i am comfortable with. On an unrelated note, do 4s act like the stereotypical 4 all the time?

I have my ideal self, the tragic, composed intellectual artist and to be vaildated as so by others.

Also to be someone elusive, untouchable, fleeting, hard to get hold on.

Seems to me that there are people who can stick to one image constantly, but i cant because there are 2 sides of me.

Confuses me sometimes, haha.

Xia oops, I hope I didn't misunderstand what you meant by images.

Did you mean all the images of 4s or of the other E types? 4w5 sp infp hsp add




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