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$ Lets talk about Money $ - RocketMadness - Louisiana's #1 Motorcycle Community

Maybe we can get a good discussion going. Lets talk about anything dealing with Money $$$. Work, Income, Investing, Debt, Insurance, Small business, Saving, Loans, Scams, Credit Cards, FICO, IRS, budgeting, Spending, Real estate, Inheritance, Emergencies, Money and relatinoships, Getting deals, Cash, etc. Over the past 2 years, I've done a complete 180 when it comes to how I look and deal with money. I was 25 years old with $25,800 in debt.

A college drop out and i had nothing to show for all the debt except a beat up R6 and some clothes in my closet. I decided that I would not use any debt for any reason ever again.

That is my big thing when it comes to money...

No debt. what are your thoughts, questions, opinions.

How do you deal with your Money?? Nothing good comes from debt.

So one is to avoid it at all cost.

U agree? Disagree?

I don't mind a little debt on as long as I can get out of it if I need to.

I don't like to owe more on something than it's worth or have debt and I can't show anything for it.

Many people had some equity in their homes.

With the recession, home prices started going down.

Now many people owe more on their houses than what they are worth today.

Sometimes we feel we dont have a lot of debt, but then circumstances change and we get into trouble.

I'd like to make some...

At least a few college kids seem to be doing a lot better than I am.

This $8.00/hr shit ain't cuttin' it.

I can barely pay rent and bills every month.

Quote: : I'd like to make some...

At least a few college kids seem to be doing a lot better than I am.

This $8.00/hr shit ain't cuttin' it.

I can barely pay rent and bills every month.

Dude... it sounds like you have a career crisis.

You need to do something, get a book, take a class, learn a trade, change jobs so that you can increase your income. in the mean time, maybe getting a part time job could help. you have kids?

$8hr is rough how much is your rent?

Well, I'm in college, so I can't have a full-time job right now.

My girlfriend and I split bills, rent is $725 split.

We're moving in November, looking for something in the $500-600 range.

She makes a good bit more money than I do, but she isn't in school.

I've always lived my life from an early age of never having debt.

Even when I was attending college, I was always making an effort to at least break even.

My first official purchase in creating debt was my first motorcycle.

I paid that off relatively quickly and I used some of my savings as collateral on a loan.

Once that was paid off, I bought another bike in full I never had any debt until I bought my R1.

Then work took a turn for the worse.

Less hours required and less income.

I didn't affect me too bad at first.

Instead of making chunk payments against the bike, I' d resorted to paying extra over the minimum monthly amount.

A shit storm ensued in both the private and personal life and long story short, now I have more debt than income.

120% of my paychecks goes towards bills.

I've been trying to sell some items but the return investment is too low since no-one is in a spending mood now.

Debt is evil! I am now almost 31 and 31k from being 100% debt free.

After my scooter wreck in 2006.

I had alot of time to think, since I could not work.

It is simple, I just stopped buying if I didn't have the cash.

I cut up all the cards.

I paid my bills as normal.

The big change was the money I started saving.

Example, if I made $8000 a month and total bills plus cost of living was $5000.

Then I would just blow the $3000 on stupid shit.

After the wreck I stopped the stupid spending.

I started taking the left over money and started applying to my debt.

For every dollar I applied I saved a dollar.

Now I will be debt free in 18 months or less and now have a little nest egg started.

It has been 3 years now and it has not been all easy street.

The crazy thing, is now I have the money to buy any toy I want.

It just seems childish to go blow what I worked hard for....

Thats cool... lower rent would help a good bit. When I was in college, I worked in a good restaurant as a server.

I averaged about $12hr.

Damn, you could probably sling pizzas at night and make $1500/month. My girlfriend works full time and goes to college full time right now.

Its really tough but it can be done. or you can bust your ass in the summer working 70hr weeks and save a lot of money to use during the semester. Just stay away from student loans...

They stick around for decades and the government now owns about 80% of student loans.

You dont want to owe money, you specially dont want to owe money to the government.

Ridiculous

Quote: : I've always lived my life from an early age of never having debt.

Even when I was attending college, I was always making an effort to at least break even.

My first official purchase in creating debt was my first motorcycle.

I paid that off relatively quickly and I used some of my savings as collateral on a loan.

Once that was paid off, I bought another bike in full I never had any debt until I bought my R1.

Then work took a turn for the worse.

Less hours required and less income.

I didn't affect me too bad at first.

Instead of making chunk payments against the bike, I' d resorted to paying extra over the minimum monthly amount.

A shit storm ensued in both the private and personal life and long story short, now I have more debt than income.

120% of my paychecks goes towards bills.

I've been trying to sell some items but the return investment is too low since no-one is in a spending mood now.

Yeah dude... we never set out to become deeply in debt on purpose, but life happens and a good bit of us get into a damn hole. dude, just make sure you are paying for the most important things first (food, lights, rent, transportation) If you cant pay the credit cards right now, screw them...

You'll get to them in a few months once shit gets better. for sure try to sell all kinds of stuff, have a garage sale, put stuff on craigs list, sell so much stuff the dog thinks he is next.

Quote: : I started taking the left over money and started applying to my debt.

For every dollar I applied I saved a dollar.

Now I will be debt free in 18 months or less and now have a little nest egg started.

You are going to be debt free...

Do you know how weird that is.

Its a small number of households who are debt free, specially in the US.

We are a spending bunch of people.

Other than my mortgage the only money I owe is a bit left on my truck.

I bought it new 2 years ago, and one week after the purchase I knew I NEVER wanted another car loan in my life.

I hate paying for something I really don't give a crap about.

The newness wears off in a few days but the payments keep coming.

I should have it paid off in a few months and am looking forward to that day. Other than the debt/income stuff I live by the 20/20 rule.

If you save 20% of your gross income into a 401k/IRA etc.

For 20 years; then upon the end of the 20 years you can live in perpetuity off of the interest at a similiar income to what you retire at, and adjust/raise each year for inflation.

Basically if you have the discipline to save 20% of your pay for 20 years....you're retired.

This assumes an average rate of return of 8% which is less than the 10% the market has averaged.

At any rate I have 15-16 years to go which puts me retiring as early as 41.

Even if I had to work a few extra years its excitingly young and proof that the discipline pays off.

Thats really good I will be doing a similar plan, but I'm not doing any investing for about 7 years.

There are a few things i would like to do before I invest. but once I start I'll be putting 15% of gross into mutual funds in rothIRA.

Any extra money goes to saving to pay cash for a house to have as a rental. compound interest is freaking amazing...

No one in the US should retire broke if they invest something every single month. Looking at something like your 20/20 makes me realize how much social security sucks.

We pay in 7.5% all our lives to retire and get a thousand bucks/mth.

Social security is freaking theft, what a waste. hey shane, if you invested your social security tax every month for 20 years what would you end up with?

You are un-American my friends.

Negative net worth is the American way.

Earn, burn, and burn more than you make!

Planning for retirement is chicken shit, because you can die tomorrow.

Enjoy the fruits of your labor today, while you are young enough not to need a walker.

Just eat dog food if you are old, and go to the grave with as much debt as possible.

Insurance will cover it. I jest of course.

Our educational system should make personal finance management part of the core curriculum.

Until then, read The Millionaire Next Door, Think and Grow Rich, etc.

Spend a couple of hundred dollars on the audio CD's, and listen while driving.

You will transform your future!

"Millionaire Next Door" was an awesome book.

Lots of statistics. #1 most popular make of car among millionaires is ...Toyota (not BMW /Mercedes) - Dr.

Thomas Stanley, Author of Millionaire Next Door My all time favorite is "My Total Money Make Over" by Dave Ramsey.

A must read!! Go buy it today, rent it from the library.

This is good stuff to think about. I have no debt, I only use my credit card to put my school books on, and pay them off within 2 months. It's hard to save.

I put a very small amount of every paycheck into my savings account, and use that to pay tuition every semester.

At work, I have a 401k that again, gets a small % of my pay, but every quarter, when I get a statement, its nice to see it growing!

Being self-employed requires creative use of money and credit.

I have debt but it's cars and house.

I stay away from credit cards for purchases and if I want something I save for it and buy it without credit cards.

Business purchases are put on credit cards but it's just cost of business.

Occasionally, I get caught between receivables and have to take 2 months to pay off my card, but that is it. I have car notes from years ago when I was starting over from a failed business.

In a few years, I should be in much better shape financially. Creative use of other peoples money (i.e.

12months same as cash) doesn't bother me as long as I am disciplined to pay off before interest comes due.

I never spend more than I can cover in "x" amount of time. Now if I can just get my wife to do the same LOL Thankfully though, she buys $50 shoes when I buy $4000 bikes.

When I was in my 20's, I ran up a little credit card debt (about 4k) and after paying it off swore I never wanted useless debt like that again.

I am speechless when I see people in their late 20's with $30,000 in credit card debt!

Hey matt is it save to assume that you will have to buy books next semester? Yes, so why not save cash before the semester and buy the books with cash. add the cost of books to tuition...

Thats how much you'd have to save prior to the semester beginning.

Then you wont have to rely on credit cards. *News Alert* This year christmass is December 25th. Start saving for christmass right now, then you wont have to finance the holidays.

Keith... I know that small business is the backbone of our economy.

Its people like you and my brother (he has moving business and 25 employees) who get the economy moving and employ most of the country. a few thoughts about business and credit like with mattc...

Is it save to say that you will have to make business purchases in the future...

Yes, why not save some cash into an account named "business purchases." When they come up you could pay cash for them. -12 months is not the same as Cash- You are actually paying the interest 3 ways...

First, you are paying through the inflated price.

The second is doing something you don’t have the money to do, which is a little hard to prove mathematically, but we all know it’s there.

The third way, which is straight up math, is that 88% of those types of contracts don’t pay off during the time and convert to payments with a finance company at ridiculous interest rates. If you don’t pay it off in 90 days or 12 months or whatever, they it converts to payments and, according to the contract, they have the right to backcharge you through the whole time at the high interest rate, and that happens 9 out of 10 times.

The one guy who pays it off is not where they make their money. also, If you walk in flashing hundred dollar bills...

You will get a deal...

With cash in hand you can get a nice discount on whatever you buy. keith...

What was your first business?

I dont carry any credit card---debit card only--- other than that my finances are private for the most part---- ive learned that with money -love-and religion --people don't quit tell the truth and frankly its not my business or neither theres !

I'm trying to get into debt.

Theres a $5500 truck I want at a dealership.

I'm offering $1500 cash as a down payment but they wont finance me because they want me making at least $2000 a month even though I'm a full time college student.

"other than that my finances are private for the most part---- ive learned that with money -love-and religion --people don't quit tell the truth and frankly its not my business or neither theres !

" but that is part of the problem, we dont talk about it and we dont learn about it. My parents never talked about money...

I had to learn as I went, and I learned the wrong stuff because people did not teach me or talk to me about it and i was too dumb to think for myself. just want to get ideas, opinions out in the open.

Keep your specifics private...

Thats cool.

I grew up doing everything on a cash basis.

Started working a legitimate job at 15 although i had worked a dairy farm for 2 years prior to that.

My dad helped me get on the credit map via a car loan when i turned 17.

I paid it off in 2 years and stayed cash for another 7 years.

After finally graduating college and starting a career, i wound up with a gas card and a visa.

I never really strayed any further than that.

And it is a freedom i still enjoy.

Never more than 5k in debt on a card at any given time. credit is an alternative to saving.

A here and now solution.

That's all. but it costs you.

I've never had a problem waiting and saving and living within my means.

Practicality usually wins out at my house. and a potential problem with living month to month with regular notes and looking at each loan or big expenditure by way of a loan as just the amount of the monthly payment, instead of the total amount of debt, can become problematic if you happen to lose your job or experience some other financial setback. real simple.

I see people make poor decisions all the time when it comes to money.

But the number one is spending money they don't have for things they don't need in some attempt at gaining happiness and winding up making a problem that robs them of happiness. like the comment i saw above: to do with mercedes vs honda and so on.

I work with people that will go spend 50k on a car when they make less than 90k yearly.

And the extra money they spend taking care of that expensive ride and the time they spend worrying about it like it's a baby east away at their sanity.

I bump into six figures annual, not counting my wife's income and i drive a $20k honda.

Suits me just fine.

I still wonder why it's not good enough for others.

I guess i just don't get it. just my dos pesos

My FIRST business or my "failed" business. My "failed" business was actually my second.

I believe you were a customer. I am the guy that those companies never make money on.

I've been doing the "same as cash" for several years and always pay off waaaa early.

Example, I just purchased an enclosed trailer for $2000 on the same as cash deal.

I had the money to pay for it up front but the same as cash was used to my advantage because being self employed, the "slush" money that I keep gets me through the lean times.

This is perfect example as this past July and August was my slowest 2 months that I have had in over 3 years.

By making small payments during those months allowed me to use my "slush" money to float bills during that time.

I purchased the trailer in May of this year and paid it off last week because business picked up a little bit.

IF I can spend someone else's money for free, I will do it.

I don't do it just because, I only do it if am planning a purchase anyway. As far as flashing cash...I shop around a bit and make a fair offer on something before discussing payment.

I am not a ball breaker because I know what it is like being on the other side of the counter.

I RARELY shop online because I choose to support local business whenever I can...that goes for 95% of everything I purchase.

I even shop at local walmarts in my parish so the sales tax money goes to improve MY life.

My brother was asked about buying a million dollar peice of property--he asked the realtor all kinds of questions showing big intrest then he asked what the note would be--the realtor quickly pulled out a calculator and crunched numbers---well with 20 % down 15yr morgage and gave my brother an answer ---my brother thought a few seconds and asked "now how much a month would that be with the late fee !

" --we all rollled laughing---

I too was a slave to credit card debt owing 1 1/2 times my annual salary.

After four years of "getting down to business" it was paid off.

I did the "12 months same as cash" thing to purchase equipment to start a business and paid the balance well before the end of the 12 months.

On my current track, I will be totally debt free in 7 years. Pablo mentioned Dave Ramsey's "Total Money Makeover" which is a great book to read.

He is also on WJBO weeknights from 7-10pm.

"On my current track, I will be totally debt free in 7 years." so does that mean house and everything...

Awesome.

Quote: : hey matt is it save to assume that you will have to buy books next semester? Yes, so why not save cash before the semester and buy the books with cash. add the cost of books to tuition...

Thats how much you'd have to save prior to the semester beginning.

Then you wont have to rely on credit cards. *News Alert* This year christmass is December 25th. Start saving for christmass right now, then you wont have to finance the holidays.

Its a good point you make.

It's hard to make myself save when I don't make much money, and still want to enjoy life some too.

Most of the time, no interest is paid on the money borrowed anyway.

I found this a while back 10 Reasons You Aren't Rich Thursday March 22, 11:30 am ET ByJeffrey Strain, Special to TheStreet.com >

> The reason why you aren't a millionaire (or on your way to becoming one) is really quite simple.

You probably assume it's because you aren't earning enough money, but the truth is that for most people, whether or not you become a millionaire has very little to do with the amount of money you make.

It's the way that you treat money in your daily life.

> > > > Here are 10 possible reasons you aren't a millionaire: >

> 1 . You Care What Your Neighbors Think : If you're competing against them and their material possessions, you're wasting your hard-earned money on toys to impress them instead of building your wealth.

> > 2 . You Aren't Patient : Until the era of credit cards, it was difficult to spend more than you had.

That is not the case today.

If you have credit card debt because you couldn't wait until you had enough money to purchase something in cash, you are making others wealthy while keeping yourself in debt.

> > 3 . You Have Bad Habits : Whether it's smoking, drinking, gambling or some other bad habit, the habit is using up a lot of money that could go toward building wealth.

Most people don't realize that the cost of their bad habits extends far beyond the immediate cost.

Take smoking, for example: It costs a lot more than the pack of cigarettes purchased.

It also negatively affects your wealth in the form of higher insurance rates and decreased value of your home.

> > 4 . You Have No Goals : It's difficult to build wealth if you haven't taken the time to know what you want.

If you haven't set wealth goals, you aren't likely to attain them.

You need to do more than state, "I want to be a millionaire." You need to take the time to set saving and investing goals on a yearly basis and come up with a plan for how to achieve those goals.

> > 5 . You Haven't Prepared : Bad things happen to the best of people from time to time, and if you haven't prepared for such a thing to happen to you through insurance, any wealth that you might have built can be gone in an instant.

> > 6 . You Try to Make a Quick Buck : For the vast majority of us, wealth doesn't come instantly.

You may believe that people winning the lottery are a dime a dozen, but the truth is you're far more likely to get struck by lightning than win the lottery.

This desire to get rich quickly likely extends into the way you invest, with similar results.

> > 7 . You Rely on Others to Take Care of Your Money : You believe that others have more knowledge about money matters, and you rely exclusively on their judgment when deciding where you should invest your money.

Unfortunately, most people want to make money themselves, and this is their primary objective when they tell you how to invest your money.

Listen to other people's advice to get new ideas, but in the end you should know enough to make your own investing decisions.

> > 8 . You Invest in Things You Don't Understand : Your hear that Bob has made a lot of money doing it, and you want to get in on the gravy train.

If Bob really did make money, he did so because he understood how the investment worked.

Throwing in your money because someone else has made money without fully understanding how the investment works will keep you from being wealthy.

> > 9 . You're Financially Afraid : You are so scared of risk that you keep all your money in a savings account that is actually losing money when inflation is put into the equation, yet you refuse to move it to a place where higher rates of return are possible because you're afraid that you will lose money.

> > 10 . You Ignore Your Finances : You take the attitude that if you make enough, the finances will take care of themselves.

If you currently have debt, it will somehow resolve itself in the future.

Unfortunately, it takes planning to become wealthy.

It doesn't magically happen to the vast majority of people.

> > In reality, it is probably not just one of the above bad habits that has kept you from becoming a millionaire, but a combination of a few of them.

Take a hard look at the list, and do some reflecting.

If you want to be a millionaire, it's well within your power, but you'll have to face the issues that are currently keeping you from creating that wealth before you will have a chance to call yourself one.

> > > > Independent market research, commentary, analysis and news.

> > > >

Kevinray7, nice post cuz.

Anybody ever read "RICH DAD POOR DAY" or attended the seminars that they keep advertising?

Any info on that stuff?

Moving your brother isnt ted is it?

While I agree with most of what everyone is saying, I will never pay off my house, in fact I will take equity out of it in order to gain the tax advantage of the interest deduction for it.

Before any of you tell me that I am paying 3 times what the house is worth in interest, I will tell you that it reduces my tax load by about $18K annually and that is on my current house, when I build the new one in 18 months and my income triples I expect that figure to go to about $30K annually, perhaps more.

As long as Uncle Sam allows me to take the deduction in my house then given my financial situation, paying it off is foolish.

Investing the money in a moderately safe long term investment benefits me much more. Now I will say that the equation changes quite a bit for those of you with kids and only one income.

But in previous years the wife and my incomes combined came close to the top bracket but we only payed about 8.6% income tax the previous three years.

Having a good tax guy helps a lot, of course this year and next I will show much less income with school and only getting my retirement check, plus nurses here do not make anything close to what they do in South Florida so the little woman took a hit too, so the numbers will likely change a little but being able to deduct the mortgage interest will still work to our advantage.

Quote: : While I agree with most of what everyone is saying, I will never pay off my house, in fact I will take equity out of it in order to gain the tax advantage of the interest deduction for it.

Before any of you tell me that I am paying 3 times what the house is worth in interest, I will tell you that it reduces my tax load by about $18K annually and that is on my current house, when I build the new one in 18 months and my income triples I expect that figure to go to about $30K annually, perhaps more.

As long as Uncle Sam allows me to take the deduction in my house then given my financial situation, paying it off is foolish.

Investing the money in a moderately safe long term investment benefits me much more.

Hey... here is a thought from Dave Ramsey http://www.daveramsey.com/etc/askdav...tItemId=113929 "There are three reasons why you should pay off your home that people rail against.

The first is that paying off the house lowers risk, because you won’t be foreclosed on if your house is paid off.

It gives you great security.

The second reason people say not to pay it off is because they say you can make money by borrowing money at a low interest rate on your house and investing it in the stock market.

But by the time you adjust for risk and taxes, you don’t come out ahead.

I would never borrow on my home to invest. The big reason that people say not to pay off your home is that you’ll lose your tax deduction.

If you have a $200,000 loan at 5% interest, you’d pay about $10,000 a year in taxes, which would give you a $10,000 deduction.

If you make $70,000 a year, that deduction is saving you $2,500 in taxes if you’re in a 25% tax bracket.

You are sending Countrywide Mortgage $10,000 to keep from sending the government $2,500.

That’s stupid. You are better off being debt-free and giving your church $10,000.

You’ll save on taxes and do some good with the money." so on the tax break thing you are trading $10,000 to get $2,500....

That is what you call a bad trade. ohhh and dont listen to your dumb mother in law.haha

Quote: : hey... here is a thought from Dave Ramsey "There are three reasons why you should pay off your home that people rail against.

The first is that paying off the house lowers risk, because you won’t be foreclosed on if your house is paid off.

It gives you great security.

The second reason people say not to pay it off is because they say you can make money by borrowing money at a low interest rate on your house and investing it in the stock market.

But by the time you adjust for risk and taxes, you don’t come out ahead.

I would never borrow on my home to invest. The big reason that people say not to pay off your home is that you’ll lose your tax deduction.

If you have a $200,000 loan at 5% interest, you’d pay about $10,000 a year in taxes, which would give you a $10,000 deduction.

If you make $70,000 a year, that deduction is saving you $2,500 in taxes if you’re in a 25% tax bracket.

You are sending Countrywide Mortgage $10,000 to keep from sending the government $2,500.

That’s stupid. You are better off being debt-free and giving your church $10,000.

You’ll save on taxes and do some good with the money." so on the tax break argument you are sending the bank $10,000 in interest to keep from sending the IRS $2,500...

That is crazy. thats the math of the example can I ask you how you arrived at $18k in tax savings for having the home loan.

I arrived at it because I owe a lot more than that on my two houses and land, also my income is quite a bit above what he used for an example.

No offense to Dave Ramsey but I have three separate people look at it for me and all of them tell me that my way is the most fiscally sound for me, add into that you have to take a standard deduction if you do not itemize and your mortgage interest is the largest deduction you have, on top of that I claim everything on the planet, hence the reason that I pay about 20% less than what my bracket should be.

I have said for a long time that we should go to a flat tax that everyone would have to pay and I would gladly kick in more, but as long as the code is written the way that it is I will take full advantage of it.

If I ever get audited, which is very unlikely since my tax guy is a retired IRS auditor, then they can hash it out and if I have to pay some more tax, then I still got to use their money for a few years. His is a very simple example that does not account for a multitude of things, I applaud what he is trying to do in that most people do not have a clue about what there true fiscal situation is, but the little woman and I have been very aware of it since she graduated nursing school and we started making decent money.

Wow really interesting ive brought up this topic with many different people that I have met in my business and most people have up to and possibly more than 5 credit cards (that is not helping anyones situation) I have always gone by the expression that if i dont have the cash for it then I cannot afford it but in certian situation like buying a home which I tried about a year ago even though I had half of the money cash in hand 40K I could not get the financing because I had no credit which in this day and age is more important than what you make and is bought and not earned which is screwed in my opinion but I digress.

In my opinion renting is not an "intelligent" choice due to the fact that if you look hard enough you could probably find a place for sale for the same and/or less money than rent with a few exception "If it flys, floats, or fuks, rent dont buy the maintenance will eat you up.

Hey fat kid You can get a mortgage with a FICO of zero.

You have to find a bank that does manual underwriting (how they did mortagages 20 yrs ago.) Have proof that you've paid your landlord on time every month for two years.

Proof of steady employment.

Show that you've paid your utilities on time. to get a mortgage you need either a good credit score (700+) or a credit score of zero (no credit history).

Its being in the middle that messes you up. If you have not used any credit of any kind...

In about two years from your last use of credit your FICO goes to zero. Long term renting is a bad idea, but its alright to rent for a few years while you get your stuff straight.

Arrived in USA from England with wife (now ex) and 2 kids in Dec 98, rested for 2 days and then scraped old wax from Walgreens floors at night. Started at Duplesis Cadillac, moved to Brian Harris Chevy (tech) then joined police 9 years ago. Wouldn't go back to England if you paid me $10K a week. Bike note and house note. No credit cards, STAY AWAY FROM CREDIT CARDS Oh, and found a great family on this website

Quote: : Wouldn't go back to England if you paid me $10K a week. [Threadjack] The thing I like most about you is you are not trying to change this place into where you left.

You left for a reason.

So many immigrants do that and it infuriates me to no end.

I don't go to other peoples houses and try and change them...we should get the same courtesy.

[/Threadjack] Glad to have you here Phil!

Quote: : [threadjack] the thing i like most about you is you are not trying to change this place into where you left.

You left for a reason.

So many immigrants do that and it infuriates me to no end.

I don't go to other peoples houses and try and change them...we should get the same courtesy.

[/threadjack] glad to have you here phil!

+1

Discussion Title: $ Lets talk about Money $
Title Keywords: Lets  talk  about  Money  RocketMadness  Louisiana's  Motorcycle  Community 



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