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Software installed without permission through the internet - Legal Information - misc.legal
There is this "company" called WhenU.com.
One day I was on the internet when
something popped up on my screen asking me if I wanted to display ClockSync on
my system tray.
Well, I thought it had something to do with my Windows o/s,
kind of like what happens when they ask you to accept the daylight savings time
update.
Anyhow, being busy and not really knowing what it was I clicked okay.
Only after a couple of days of receiving constant pop-ups all with the same
title ("Save") did I finally start saying to myself "what's going on?" The
popup ad said that this was part of the terms of some "software program" I had
"downloaded".
It told you what software programs are supported by this that are
on your computer, and guess what it was?
Yep. "ClockSync".
Ok. When you
download something aren't you supposed to know about it?
Anyway, needless to say I uninstalled this and all other programs it
infiltrated onto my computer.
Problem solved, right?
WRONG. The next day I got
the same message.
"Do you want ClockSync displayed on your system tray?"
Ummm...
No. So I clicked cancel.
Can you guess where this is going?
The next
day I notice more popup ads called "Save".
What the hell is going on?
I said
CANCEL. That means you CAN'T install it.
And it installed it anyway??
Yes, it
did. So I uninstalled it again.
Problem solved again?
WRONG. Even though I no
longer have any of these so-called programs on my computer, the same ads are
still popping up.
And when I click on the help section, it tells me they're
still on my computer.
I guess this isn't much different than your average, every-day popup.
But it
just seems VERY creepy that they can do this.
I thought only hackers could put
stuff on your computer without your knowledge or consent.
So, my question is...
can I do anything about this?
Obviously I'm not talking lawsuit or anything,
but who can I report this to?
I have already filed a complaint with BBBOnline
(big whoop) and sent a message to their "legal" department.
These ads aren't
being stopped whatsoever by my popup blocker and they come up almost every time
I visit a webpage.
Even if no one has advice, if anyone ever asks you to display ClockSync on your
system tray, RUN !!!
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On 05 Jul 2003 04:18:29 GMT DraGoNsnowBaLL <dragonsnowball@aol.com>
Whittled these words:
>
There is this "company" called WhenU.com.
One day I was on the internet when
>
Something popped up on my screen asking me if I wanted to display ClockSync on
>
My system tray. Well, I thought it had something to do with my Windows o/s,
>
Kind of like what happens when they ask you to accept the daylight savings time
>
Update. Anyhow, being busy and not really knowing what it was I clicked okay.
Growing problem see:
http://www.doxdesk.com/parasite/
http://groups.google.com/groups?&sel...40news.rcn.com
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...GP11.phx.
Gbl
<snip>
>
I guess this isn't much different than your average, every-day popup.
Yeah, it is.
Its sending information back on your click habits so
advertisers can evaluate the effectiveness of their ads and target their
adevertisements
>
But it
> just seems VERY creepy that they can do this.
I thought only hackers could put
>
Stuff on your computer without your knowledge or consent.
But you DID consent.
You didn't read the consent document but you did
accept it.
SAme thing happens with RealPlayer or Real One Player.
If you
actually read the documentation they do tell you what they are really
installing but they bury it so you won't read or understand.
>
So, my question is...
>
Can I do anything about this?
Obviously I'm not talking lawsuit or anything,
>
But who can I report this to?
Your congresscritter, seriously.
I don't believe the basic concept of
adware should be illegal - if you want to pay for software by being part
of data collection your should have that choice.
But there probably
should be standards as to what is required to provide adequate notice and
true consent.
>
I have already filed a complaint with BBBOnline
>
(big whoop) and sent a message to their "legal" department.
These ads aren't
>
Being stopped whatsoever by my popup blocker and they come up almost every time
>
I visit a webpage.
>
Even if no one has advice, if anyone ever asks you to display ClockSync on your
>
System tray, RUN !!!
First and foremost be more careful in your browsing and clicking.
READ
before clicking.
If you are using IE you can put suspect sites in a
Restricted zone and prevent just thoses sites from running the kind of
scripts they need to in order to install these things.
Spyware programs
fill the gap.
Diane Blackman
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"DraGoNsnowBaLL" <dragonsnowball@aol.com>
Wrote in message
news:20030705001829.17770.
222@mb-m03.aol.com...
>
There is this "company" called WhenU.com.
One day I was on the internet
when
>
Something popped up on my screen asking me if I wanted to display
ClockSync on
>
My system tray. Well, I thought it had something to do with my Windows
o/s,
>
Kind of like what happens when they ask you to accept the daylight savings
time
>
Update. Anyhow, being busy and not really knowing what it was I clicked
okay.
>
Only after a couple of days of receiving constant pop-ups all with the
same
>
Title ("Save") did I finally start saying to myself "what's going on?" The
>
Popup ad said that this was part of the terms of some "software program" I
had
>
"downloaded". It told you what software programs are supported by this
that are
>
On your computer, and guess what it was?
Yep. "ClockSync".
Ok. When you
>
Download something aren't you supposed to know about it?
>
Grokster, the file sharing P2P thing, installs, without your knowledge,
certain programs designed to create traffic to the software's customers.
After I realized this, I had uninstalled grokster and STILL had problems.
I traced it down to a program showing up in the Zone Alarm file list as
something called msbb.exe.
This is almost as bad as "Gator".
I deleted the file and it popped up again.
So I figured something else had
to be triggering it.
Found references to it in the registry and deleted those.
Popped up again.
Searched the internet for clues.
Look for anything relating to "ncase" as well as "msbb.exe".
in control panel you'll find in add/remove programs an item related to
"ncase" which is going to be a headache to remove but can be done.
Clicking "remove" does nothing.
You must remove it in the registry.
Check msconfig startup tab and inspect all programs listed for any strange
entries and begin there.
Go into the registry and delete all keys where the bugger hides.
delete any "exe" and related "dll" files.
Unfortunately, if we're that willing to use somebody's program, then we have
to take the bad with the good or don't use the program.
No you did not precisely agree to the software being installed, but it comes
with the package.
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In responce to the post:
On 5 Jul 2003 05:00:43 GMT, TOTE@dog-play.com stated...and I replied:
In addition to the other advice (like reading the EULA), if a program
gets past your defences and becomes a pain in the arse (like the one
you describe), there is a way to remove it.
Most of these annoiance
programs put a "startup" program in your systems registry, so it can
"reload" even if you delete the .exe.
Try this:
Select "Run" from your "Start" menu, and type regedit.exe, click OK
and the registry editor will start.
Drill down (by clicking the little plus sign) on each level listed
below
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows\Curr entVersion\Run
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\Curre ntVersion\Run
Locate the offending program (Be careful here, there are some programs
that are required and must be left)...usually it will be the last
entry.
Highlight the entry and hit the delete key.
The regisrty is saved on exit.
Reboot and insure the program has
indeed been removed.
Hope this helps...
Shell
-
http://drshell.home.mindspring.com/
Into computers since 1972.
WARNING!
Information and e-mail addresses contained herein, are for personal use only.
By entering this site, you agree that you will use this data only for lawful purposes and that, under no circumstances will you use this data to: allow, enable, or otherwise support the transmission of mass unsolicited, commercial advertising or solicitations via direct mail, electronic mail, or by telephone.
Violators will be dealt with accordingly.
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On Sat, 5 Jul 2003 00:44:18 -0500, "Richard" <anom@anom>
>
>"DraGoNsnowBaLL" <dragonsnowball@aol.com>
Wrote in message
>news:20030705001829.17770.
222@mb-m03.aol.com...
>>
There is this "company" called WhenU.com.
One day I was on the internet
>when
>>
Something popped up on my screen asking me if I wanted to display
>ClockSync on
>>
My system tray. Well, I thought it had something to do with my Windows
>o/s,
>>
Kind of like what happens when they ask you to accept the daylight savings
>time
>>
Update. Anyhow, being busy and not really knowing what it was I clicked
>okay.
>>
Only after a couple of days of receiving constant pop-ups all with the
>same
>>
Title ("Save") did I finally start saying to myself "what's going on?" The
>>
Popup ad said that this was part of the terms of some "software program" I
>had
>>
"downloaded". It told you what software programs are supported by this
>that are
>>
On your computer, and guess what it was?
Yep. "ClockSync".
Ok. When you
>>
Download something aren't you supposed to know about it?
>>
>
>
>Grokster, the file sharing P2P thing, installs, without your knowledge,
>certain programs designed to create traffic to the software's customers.
>After I realized this, I had uninstalled grokster and STILL had problems.
>I traced it down to a program showing up in the Zone Alarm file list as
>something called msbb.exe.
>This is almost as bad as "Gator".
That thing sucked - I think I got around it by telling my firewall to
block it.
You can probably do the same with this little annoying program
>I deleted the file and it popped up again.
So I figured something else had
>to be triggering it.
>Found references to it in the registry and deleted those.
>Popped up again.
Searched the internet for clues.
>Look for anything relating to "ncase" as well as "msbb.exe".
>in control panel you'll find in add/remove programs an item related to
>"ncase" which is going to be a headache to remove but can be done.
>Clicking "remove" does nothing.
>You must remove it in the registry.
>
>Check msconfig startup tab and inspect all programs listed for any strange
>entries and begin there.
>Go into the registry and delete all keys where the bugger hides.
>delete any "exe" and related "dll" files.
>
>
>Unfortunately, if we're that willing to use somebody's program, then we have
>to take the bad with the good or don't use the program.
>No you did not precisely agree to the software being installed, but it comes
>with the package.
>
>
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On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 06:07:05 GMT Shell <___computerNOSPAMconsultant@mindspring.com___>
Whittled these words:
>
In responce to the post:
>
On 5 Jul 2003 05:00:43 GMT, TOTE@dog-play.com stated...and I replied:
>
In addition to the other advice (like reading the EULA), if a program
>
Gets past your defences and becomes a pain in the arse (like the one
>
You describe), there is a way to remove it.
Most of these annoiance
>
Programs put a "startup" program in your systems registry, so it can
>
"reload" even if you delete the .exe.
Try this:
There are no programs in your registry, only references to programs.
So if
you are actually successful in deleting the program, "the .exe" then a
registry reference will fail.
Problem is that an application can consist
of multiple executable files (programs).
So the one referenced in the
registry might be "runner.exe" (this is entirely made up!) then there is
another called "watcher.exe" (also made up) that has a copy of
"runner.exe" And watcher's job is simply to watch and see if runner is
deleted.
If it is the watcher spits out a new copy.
The program may also
reload if there is a reference to a URL in the registry.
All deleting the
data from the run key does is prevent the program for executing on
start-up.
That is sometimes all that needs to be done.
In other cases is
is a step necessary to delete "the .exe" permanently.
Merely removing the program reference in the registry will work some of
the time.
The program will still be on your drive.
Depending upon how
"polite" it is it main remain there without ever causing you trouble
again.
Or it may be reactivated by visting a particular web site.
Or it
may be reactived merely by opening your browser.
Or ... Just because you
no longer see a particular behavior does not mean the program is
deactivated.
Some are perfectly willing to let you stop the pop-up ads as
long as it can continue reporting back what websites you visit, what links
you select etc.
I figure if a company is low enough to try to trick you or hide its
intentions then their "uninstall" is suspect.
Right or wrong I assume
that if a company used subtrefuge to install their wares then likely the
only thing "uninstalled" will be the thing I can see, but the rest of the
activity will continue.
So I don't consider the problem solved just
because I've restored the home page (or whatever).
I've done several manual uninstalls and clean-ups of adware and home page
hijacks etc (my term is rogueware).
None have been as simple as deleting
from the run line in the registry.
Manual cleanup is involved and risky
for most users.
The average person is far better off getting a spyware
program to do the clean-up for them than plunging into the registry.
Diane Blackman
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What are the political prospects of making spyware illegal?-Jitney
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In responce to the post:
On 6 Jul 2003 05:54:31 GMT, TOTE@dog-play.com stated...and I replied:
>On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 06:07:05 GMT Shell <___computerNOSPAMconsultant@mindspring.com___>
Whittled these words:
>>
In responce to the post:
>>
On 5 Jul 2003 05:00:43 GMT, TOTE@dog-play.com stated...and I replied:
>
>>
In addition to the other advice (like reading the EULA), if a program
>>
Gets past your defences and becomes a pain in the arse (like the one
>>
You describe), there is a way to remove it.
Most of these annoiance
>>
Programs put a "startup" program in your systems registry, so it can
>>
"reload" even if you delete the .exe.
Try this:
>
>There are no programs in your registry, only references to programs.
So if
Yes dear. I know this.
I was mearly trying to insure that the
program not be reactivated through the use of a "watcher" program.
And, as I said, this post was "in addition to the other advice".
Which is to remove the program.exe through normal uninstall
procedures.
I didn't think it necessary go into a full blown
description of methods used by these "rougeware" programs.
Seems that lawers just enjoy arguing.
:/
Shell
-
http://drshell.home.mindspring.com/
Into computers since 1972.
WARNING!
Information and e-mail addresses contained herein, are for personal use only.
By entering this site, you agree that you will use this data only for lawful purposes and that, under no circumstances will you use this data to: allow, enable, or otherwise support the transmission of mass unsolicited, commercial advertising or solicitations via direct mail, electronic mail, or by telephone.
Violators will be dealt with accordingly.
-
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On 6 Jul 2003 09:24:39 -0700 jitney <jtnospam@yahoo.com>
Whittled these words:
>
What are the political prospects of making spyware illegal?-Jitney
First problem will be defining them in a way that does not interfere with
other expectations of free choices.
So called "spyware" is in essence the
user sharing information about themselves in exchange for something they
want.
I don't have a problem with that basic concept.
The problem is in
whether there was any real consent.
There is a difference between a
failure to truly consent because of a failure to investigate and a failure
of consent because the true nature was hidden or mis-stated.
If a
government too often protects people from their own stupid mistakes they
will quickly be governing a stupid people.
The line between leaving people
free to make stupid choices and protecting them from true fraud is not one
I can easily identify.
Diane Blackman
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On Sun, 06 Jul 2003 23:11:07 GMT Shell <___computerNOSPAMconsultant@mindspring.com___>
Whittled these words:
>
Yes dear. I know this.
I was mearly trying to insure that the
>
Program not be reactivated through the use of a "watcher" program.
>
And, as I said, this post was "in addition to the other advice".
>
Which is to remove the program.exe through normal uninstall
>
Procedures. I didn't think it necessary go into a full blown
>
Description of methods used by these "rougeware" programs.
>
Seems that lawers just enjoy arguing.
:/
Lawyers like precise language
" Most of these annoiance programs put a "startup" program in your systems
registry, so it can "reload" even if you delete the .exe.
"
No program is put in your systems registry.
When you say it, I believe
that's what you mean.
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