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Is there REALLY a God? - Religion and Philosophy - City-Data Forum
This subject may have been beaten to death before, but here we go again.
Ground rules:
1.
No using religious scripture, of any kind, to "prove" God exists.
It may be used to back up an assertion, or in conjuction with a statement, but not as the key evidence.
In other words, please, nobody come by and say, "God exists because the Bible/Qur'an/anything else says so." OK?
2.
Stick to the subject.
This isn't about proving or disproving any religion;
It's just about the reality of God.
Other things may flow from this subject but, right now, let's stay on topic, if we may.
Arequipa:
Let's start with a general assertion, which I will make.
There is SOME sort of guiding force behind the creation and managment of the universe/creation.
Whether or not that's the God of the Bible, or any other concept, can be discussed later.
To me, the idea that it's all just random happenstance, a total accident, is just too outrageous to believe.
The complexity and inter-connectedness of all things simply defies the possibility of that argument.
In fact, I would suggest it takes more faith to believe in total randomness than it does a guiding force of some kind.
Just look at the universe as a whole.
Galaxies, black holes, quasars, suns and planets spinning in perfect unison along predictable and measurable paths.
The speed of light being constant everywhere within that universe, except in places where there is a rational explanation for its increase or decrease in speed, such as in the proximity of black holes.
It's TOO orderly, TOO predictable, TOO measureable to be total chance which created it.
Then, look just at this little planet.
It's JUST the right distance from the sun, with JUST the right amount of gravity to hold JUST the right atmosphere to support every living thing here, no matter how different from other life forms.
It is self-regulating, self-renewing, self-cleansing and astonishing in its complexity.
Water,winds, currents, temperatures...all must be just as they are for life here to survive and, more importantly, those things which support life here now don't seem to have been present when life first arrived.
It was hotter, wetter, more violent, yet life has been sustained over time, including some species which seem to have adapted from a radically different enviornment than the one they first appeared in and thrived nonetheless.
Can Darwinism totally and completely explain that?
What are the odds?
I find that notion incredible.
(By the way, I'm not trying to open a creationism/evolutionism debate here because I'm not among those who believe the Genesis description of creation is literal and neither do I think the earth has only existed for 6000 years.
To me, that's as incredible as believing it's all random chance.)
So, what say you?
Do we agree on this, or do you have a different opinion.
(At this point, opinions are about all we have, aren't they, as there is no definitive proof one way or the other.)
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You answered your own question to my satisfaction.
There are hours spent trying to prove, or disprove.
It's a standoff most of the time.
Based on my own observations, and personal experience, I do believe in God.
I have my own concept of the great one, albeit limited by my human condition.
Religious scriptures just confuse the mix most of the time, so I keep observing, and believing until something changes, and I either expand my observations, or they do something else.
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No use of religious scripture huh?
Well, that'll handicap the argument.
Listen, the belief in a "God" is an irrational belief.
You either believe or you don't.
I believe in a "God" but I can't argue to prove to you that there is a God.
Its called faith for a reason.
Since I can't prove that there is a God, then I can't look down at you for not believing.
However, I don't appreciate people looking down at me for my beliefs either.
I'm not a crazy evangelist, and I believe that all religions worship the same God, but I can't prove that either.
I can show that most religions have similar rules and faith, but that would require getting into scripture.
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Everything does look completely random to me.
I think it doesn't look so to you because you only look at the evidence that confirms your theory, but ignore that which refutes its.
For example:
Quote: : Then, look just at this little planet.
It's JUST the right distance from the sun, with JUST the right amount of gravity to hold JUST the right atmosphere to support every living thing here, no matter how different from other life forms.
It is self-regulating, self-renewing, self-cleansing and astonishing in its complexity.
Water,winds, currents, temperatures...all must be just as they are for life here to survive and, more importantly, those things which support life here now don't seem to have been present when life first arrived.
It was hotter, wetter, more violent, yet life has been sustained over time, including some species which seem to have adapted from a radically different enviornment than the one they first appeared in and thrived nonetheless.
Can Darwinism totally and completely explain that?
What are the odds?
You ignore all of the billions of planets that likely exist in our universe that ARENT just the right distance from the sun, that DON"T have enough gravity, that CAN'T hold an atmosphere.
If there were only one planet, and that was earth, it might at first glance seem guided.
But when you consider the billions of planets that exist, probability theory suggest that at least some of them would be just the right distance away from the sun and have all those qualities.
It would be illogical to assume NONE would.
Sorry I have to run now, hopefully you see what I mean.
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Simple answer...I don't know .
I believe there probably is something out there that we do not understand, but I don't know what it is.
I cannot put a name to it, cannot define it, cannot describe it.
It could just be that whatever I sense to be there is nothing more than the pieces of the natural world we humans do not yet understand or it could indeed be a greater power of some sort.
I just don't know.
I'm not trying to be flippant here;
It's how I honestly see it.
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Watch this and tell me how you think it all came about...Personally I have no idea.
Astrophysicist, cosmologist and Nobel Prize winner George Smoot studies the cosmic microwave background radiation -- the afterglow of the Big Bang.
George Smoot on the design of the universe | Video on TED.com
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God is in my heart and mind.
That is all the proof I need.
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Quote: : God is in my heart and mind.
That is all the proof I need.
But how do you present "proof" to someone else?
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Quote: : But how do you present "proof" to someone else?
Hellooo!
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