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Having a good life and career: - Cyburbia Forums | Urban Planning Community
Everyone wants to make a comfortable living, it's just figuring out how to do it.
There are some college degrees that train you for specific, well-paying profession, such as engineering or nursing.
Then there are the professional degrees such as Dentistry, Law, Optometry, Medicine, Pharmacy, etc.
Others take the liberal arts approach where your earning potential is a gamble.
Then there are more who get a business degree and end up in management where there is a lot of money to be made.
Still others find a trade that is learned not in a university but hands-on...
Many of these people accomplish amazing things.
I've realized that the things I'm interested in or good at do not really make all that much money, though possibly enough to live comfortably.
Where does one draw the line?
Is it worth doing something you don't like just to make better money?
Is it possible to make good money no matter WHAT you do, as long as you make the right choices and end up in the right place at the right time?
I personally cannot do the math for engineering, cannot put my life on hold to go to medical school (I hate blood and guts anyway).
Does life control what we do or do we control what we do?
Is there a way to achieve your goals and still keep your outside commitments?
I'd like to think that you can just drop everything no matter what your past choices were and start over, but that's not very possible.
Time, debts, commitments to loved ones, etc.
Are all working against us on this.
Do some of us ever really know what we want to do "when we grow up"?
Do we just find ourselves in something that we tolerate until we finally retire?
Life is so short and one has to grow up and make something of themselves at some point.
I've mostly wandered through life and now I find myself, at 26, trying to hurry up and finish school and set a clear path.
It sure as hell is a lot harder than when I was 18, debt free, and my parents were paying my tuition.
I just threw it all away only to make things harder on myself now.
I guess it was worth it in some ways but I also wish I would had my sh*t together back then and taken advantage of my situation.
Now my options are limited to what I can accomplish while keeping up with everything else life demands of me.
Hindsight is 20/20 as they say.
Any thoughts on this?
I guess this is what happens when I have too much time to think.
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Quote: : Any thoughts on this?
I guess this is what happens when I have too much time to think.
You can live comfortably and even very well no matter what you do.
You just have to make sure that you are in an area that permits you to live a desired lifestyle based on your income.
I think that you bring up come very valid points and I think that as long as you strive for the absolute best, then you will succeed at achieving your goals, including those related to finances.
I once heard about a guy who wanted to be a great pizza guy.
Does not sound like much of a job, but he went on to create his own company known as Papa Johns.
The big thing is to live on less than you earn, save up an emergency fund, stop using credit, and intensely strive to be debt free.
The most valuable asset that you have to becoming phenomenally wealthy is your own income, but if your spending it to pay off debts and interest payments, it will be very difficult to become very wealthy.
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^ I agree, I make a pretty good salary, but I'm poorer than many people because of credit card debt & house payments.
I often think back wondering, what went wrong?
Of course, I did have to pay for college & support myself with a job & there have been emergencies (car repair & surgeries), but I also think of all those expenses that I really didn't need.
Stay away from credit cards & you'll probably be fine.
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When I was heading off to college my Dad gave me great advice that he lived by as well, he said he really didn't care what any of us kids did for a living, he just wanted us to first, be well educated and then, find a job/career that we loved to go to every day
My Dad, after the second World War, came home, went to RIT for electrical engineering and when he got out, went to work on the railroad, starting out at the bottom piling coal into the oven, like his dad and his dad before him - he loved going to work, he loved his job, worked at it for 44 years
He likely would have made more money as an electrical engineer but us kids still managed to get what we needed, grew up in a modest house but in a good neighborhood, 12 years of Catholic school (explains alot ), and got scholarships to go to college - but he was (and still is, at 85) a real happy and content person
I have days where I don't truly love going to work (like the last couple of weeks), but overall, I really like what I do for a living - I certainly don't make enough to fully support a husband and 3 kids so my husband works part-time;
But we manage paying cash for everything (not as easy as it sounds - I rolled quarters for groceries this past weekend ), only a mortgage and a car loan
There used to be a book that I had always wanted to read but never did called "Do what you love, the money will follow" - not sure if that's the absolute correct title, but it always intrigued me just the same -
just know that the time you are spending figuring it out and getting educated is not a waste of time - and don't go into a field because you think it might be lucrative - again, the goal should be to do something that you really like to do
We have a friend who left a lucrative postion as an engineer to go build furniture - he was completely and utterly broke for a long time setting it up, married with kids to boot - but after a few years, he's doing great and has more work than he can possibly do and is the happiest ever in his life
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Quote: : Stay away from credit cards & you'll probably be fine.
Should've done that but didn't.
Now paying for it.
I'm also getting married this year and probably having a baby sometime down the road.
Then it be only my income for a few years I'm sure and that's still with mortgage, car payment, insurance, etc.
Our income will pretty much be cut in half.
That's scary. Then there's the worry of making sure you can support a child, setup a college fund, get your retirement in line, all that.
I guess that as long as you have "each other" then things will work out, but damn it will be hard.
I see my parents living very well now and having more money than they need, but I remember times when they struggled when my brother and I were young.
It's a hard life and many of us are not fortunate as others.
I have some friends who will NEVER have to worry about making ends meet....
It seems unfair. At the same time, maybe I'm a better person than them because I have learned what it's like to struggle.
I think I"m just having to FINALLY grow up and realize I'm not a kid anymore.
I'm having a tough time with the transition.
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Quote: : The big thing is to live on less than you earn, save up an emergency fund, stop using credit, and intensely strive to be debt free.
The most valuable asset that you have to becoming phenomenally wealthy is your own income, but if your spending it to pay off debts and interest payments, it will be very difficult to become very wealthy.
Off-topic:
M'skis, it's time to change the radio station.
There is life beyond the Dave Ramsey Show!
Seriously though, we are doing his program right now through our church and he really does make a lot of sense (though he goes a tad overboard at times).
And no, I did not do it 'just because it uses Christian principles and uses that as an appeal'--I researched the crap out of it before committing, plus it was cheap.
With what we've gotten out of it so far, we have a 4 month expense emergency fund and have come up with a plan to pay off our two cars in under 18 months.
In all fairness, we did not have any credit card debt to start with and I already paid for the little bit of loan I had when I graduated.
We will continue to use our credit card, but use it like cash and only to pay utilities (I want my 2% back dammit).
Once the car debt is gone all of the savings will go toward a massive home downpayment (my goal is 30-40% down and 15 year FRM).
To answer jread's question...
Income should never be your sole deciding factor in employment.
Otherwise, we'd all be pediatrists or personal injury lawyers.
You can live comfortably on just about any income--you just really have to have your crap together.
For example, there is a single mother of two down the street from us that works as a physics teacher at the high school.
She has the qualifications to go work at a research company for 3x the salary, but doesn't because she believes in teaching and wants the summers off to spend with her children.
She lives in a perfectly nice house and drives a 3-4 year old Accord.
She does not receive alimony or child support.
She will be burning her mortgage in about 7 years.
The question you have to ask yourself is what am I willing to sacrifice in comfort/convenience for the sake of my happiness.
That is what I confronted in looking at the perspective job change for me.
I decided I was willing to tighten the belt for the sake of finding a better (happier) work situation.
Also, yes, there are people that settle on a job that they are not really happy with and just float through life...
They're called federal employees !
It takes some people a long time to find themselves and there's nothing wrong with that.
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Quote: : Repairman
Also, yes, there are people that settle on a job that they are not really happy with and just float through life...
They're called federal employees !
It takes some people a long time to find themselves and there's nothing wrong with that.
I almost spit out my coffee laughing at this rmeark - thanks alot -
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A little off-topic, but can some of you recommend good personal finance software (Quicken, etc.) and maybe a good book/website.
I would like to master the art of money management as soon as I can.
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I think people in our generation (late 20s - early 30s) are in a bit of a predicament.
I think we're one of the first generations to live in a world of almost instant gratification.
We want the nice house w/yard, two cars, 2.1 kids, a dog and a cat, and a great job that we love.
And we want it all now.
Some people are lucky enough to live like that, but i think the majority of people our age don't.
But we're sold a bill of goods that all people our age have everything we need.
But in reality a lot of people just have a sh*tload of credit card debt, a huge mortgage, 2 big car payments, and a lot of misery.
in our society bigger is better and more is more.
We've also grown accustomed to certain creature comforts such as a second family car because little janie can't wait an hour after school to be picked up.
And unfortunately all that costs money and contributes to stress.
i often think about happiness, what it is and how to get it.
And what i've realized is that we are not guaranteed happiness.
Happiness is a luxury.
There are millions of people in this world who are struggling to survive.
I think the best you can do is try to live a good honest life.
I try to live by the Golden Rule and also the hippocratic oath, "Do no harm." i figure if i can succed in that then i've lead a pretty good life, no matter if i have the biggest house on the block, the greenest yard, and the cutest kids.
/rant
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Quote: : i think people in our generation (late 20s - early 30s) are in a bit of a predicament.
I think we're one of the first generations to live in a world of almost instant gratification.
We want the nice house w/yard, two cars, 2.1 kids, a dog and a cat, and a great job that we love.
And we want it all now.
Some people are lucky enough to live like that, but i think the majority of people our age don't.
But we're sold a bill of goods that all people our age have everything we need.
But in reality a lot of people just have a sh*tload of credit card debt, a huge mortgage, 2 big car payments, and a lot of misery.
in our society bigger is better and more is more.
We've also grown accustomed to certain creature comforts such as a second family car because little janie can't wait an hour after school to be picked up.
And unfortunately all that costs money and contributes to stress.
i often think about happiness, what it is and how to get it.
And what i've realized is that we are not guaranteed happiness.
Happiness is a luxury.
There are millions of people in this world who are struggling to survive.
I think the best you can do is try to live a good honest life.
I try to live by the Golden Rule and also the hippocratic oath, "Do no harm." i figure if i can succed in that then i've lead a pretty good life, no matter if i have the biggest house on the block, the greenest yard, and the cutest kids.
/rant That is an excellent post and I completely agree!
I personally don't want to be Bill Gates...
I have no need to be rich or wealthy.
I would like to do well enough that I don't have to pawn things for gas money, though (been there).
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Quote: : Repairman To answer Zman's question...
Huh? Are these subjects automatically attributed to me now?
jread , I think that money and the desire of more money causes more problems than you think, ALL of the world's problems share this same root cause.
Take vow of poverty for the time being until you can pay those credite cards down, save some money while you are at it and Live Simple .
Read some of the posts in here, if you want.
It gave me some perspective.
It may not be something you are looking for and you do not have to look into here at all, but I figured I'd let you know about it.
Simple Living Forums
Also, I began a thread on Simple Living here.
There are some conflicting viewpoints, but it may help you out too.
http://www.cyburbia.org/forums/showt...ht=live+simple
You may PM me with questions at any time...
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Quote: : Huh? Are these subjects automatically attributed to me now?
...
Sorry, I got this thread mixed up with another I looked at right before this one.
My apologies evil twin!
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I agree with the Live Simply sentiment.
Also if you and your fiancee are both working now and living together, try to have it so you can live on only one of your salaries.
Put the other salary into a savings or investment account.
Once my BF and i become employed and can actually live in the same state that is our plan.
Live on one income, save the other income, and go laughing to the bank all the way into your retirement.
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I think most people go through this question more than once in their life.
We change, our expectations change, our needs change;
And sometimes you just wanna try something new.
I think you have to do what you want.
You may try to ignore it and go for something more practical than your dream, but I believe eventually you'd revert to that dream, so you might as well be happy during that path.
Being unhappy in a job is horrible;
Don't think you can put up with it for the sake of a bigger paycheck.
That being said, I don't think there's anything the matter with asking what the salary ranges are for certain jobs and making that part of your decision, particularly once you committ to having kids.
You can live simply and spend a lot less cash, but you do deserve to be fairly compensated for your efforts and education.
I just read someone's point aoubt the gen-xers being the first to be able to have instand gratification--that IS an excellent point.
X'ers have so much wealth at an early age compared to older generations.
I've always lived very simply, which I like.
But it did blow my mind to find out how many kids 10-20 years younger have SO much.
I guess it's the impact of the computer age and how even a half-asses systems manager can earn twice as much as the most senior planner, but it blew my mind.
I DO think they're being wise with their money, though.
Most of the young people in our office (early 20s) already own property, two of them own multiple properties!
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Quote: : A little off-topic, but can some of you recommend good personal finance software (Quicken, etc.) and maybe a good book/website.
I would like to master the art of money management as soon as I can.
I strongly recommend Jane Bryant Quinn's "Making the Most of Your Money." It's nearly a decade old, but has excellent advice - the kind of stuff your parents SHOULD have taught you.
She probably has other useful titles too.
(Stay away from the "get-rich-quick" gurus like Suze Orman.
Those people annoy the cr*p out of me!
)
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My dad always taught me to find something I'm really interested in and be the best at it I could be.
I really think your earning potential is unlimited.
It all depends upon your interest and work ethic.
If you're in it for the money, you've got it all wrong.
It makes no sense doing something you absolutely hate, and it is not fair to you or your clients.
Would you really want to go see a healthcare "professional" who didn't care about your health or what he was doing and was all about the money?
I once met a guy who said he only made like $28K as a newspaper reporter and writer.
But he said he knew that, but that it doesn't matter to him because he has such a passion for what he does.
And that's the attitude you have to have.
And with a planner, it's not nearly as bad as $28K and there are always opportunities for promotion, raises, and so forth.
So, just live comfortably and do what you enjoy.
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Quote: : Princess the kind of stuff your parents SHOULD have taught you This makes me think of a discussion my fiancee and I had.
We both think that a Personal Finance class should be REQUIRED of all higshcool students.
Just a basic class on how to balance a checkbook, manage debt, invest in the future, etc.
This would probably be the most useful class of anyone's highschool career, no matter where life leads them after graduation.
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I do what I do for a living because it is what I want to do.
Does income matter?
Of course it does.
Do I need a million $, of course I don't.
Do I sometimes feel "stuck" because of my financial situation?
Sure I do. At this point in my life I there are particular jobs that I would love to take but can't because I can't afford a decrease in salary (no guys I really can't, sure there are things I could cut out but I have already done so....).
I know that at some point (when the boys are bigger and I am not forking out 10k a year in daycare) in my life I will be able to work for my love of what I do, right now I put up with a lot of BS that perhaps I wouldn't if circumstances were a little different.
I am the sole source of income for myself, two boys and two dogs.
I HAVE to keep our roof over our heads, I HAVE to make sure we have transportation and that they are fed.
Overall I do like my job and I am paid a good salary/benefits for it.
I believe if you do what you want and love what you do, money and good life will follow.
If I don't believe that I have to wonder what we are all doing each day.
Most important to me, at this time in my life, is living each day to its fullest, enjoying each day as much as possible, looking past the BS and know that it will eventually mean nothing.
The only thing that matters is what I instill in my little ones each morning before I send them away for someone else to spend 8 hours with them and what I instill in them each evening at the dinner table and before they go to sleep.
If I didn't have them I cannot say what my purpose would be or if I would feel different about careers and how much money I make.
Perhaps I could re-evaluate and spend all of my time and energy saving for the future, but quite honestly I would rather enjoy my life today than planning for a day that may never come and ensure that my boys and I are happy...money does not equal happiness and what good is it 10, 20, 50 years from now if I waste all my time now??
The things we need come to us if we work hard each day and do the best we can...at least thats what I believe and I know that I am happy, I know that I have a good (more often great) life and a good career.
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Quote: : a Personal Finance class should be REQUIRED of all higshcool students.
Just a basic class on how to balance a checkbook, manage debt, invest in the future, etc.
This would probably be the most useful class of anyone's highschool career, no matter where life leads them after graduation.
I agree, but it should be earlier, middle school!
Teach them how a sale sweater bought on a credit card and financed over the next 3 years ends up costing you $80 more in finance charges.
I've always paid my entire credit card balance in 20 years;
Never buy anything you can't pay cash for at the end of the month.
I used to wonder how all my peers could afford such nicely decorated homes until I realized they maxxed out their credit cards to do it.
Mean while, I added one thrift shop piece at a time and never paid finance charges.
And they should teach very young kids how putting the same money into a savings account will give you so much compared to buying lottery tickets.
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Many, many moons ago, in a state far, far away, I read an article (or anecdote) that went something like this: A bunch of Hollywood types were interviewed and asked how they would choose to live (or advise one to live).
You got a lot of your cliched answers, with Liz Taylor answering "richly" (of course).
John Huston answered "With Interest".
This little nugget has more meaning if you understand that John Huston was a financial professional when the stock market crashed in 1929.
Other guys in his line of work jumped out of windows that day.
He changed careers and became a successful and famous movie producer.
Second little tidbit: Surveys show that only 2% of graduating college students have clear financial goals.
Those 2% end up with more money than the other 98% combined .
And, FWIW, I have heard that "Motley Fool" is a really good website/forum to hang out on.
Some day, I might mosey on over there myself.
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Chill jread!
Odds are that life will throw you some curves that you could never have anticipated, and even if doesn't growing up sucks.
I tried it for 17-18 years.
Lost my 30's and a lot of my '40's.
I still have relapses - some of which may be beneficial - but I often yearn for what might have happened if I had followed the energy of the moment rather than listening to the "older and wiser" voices in my head.
Staying out of debt is great advice - until it isn't.
You just have to have the fortitude to pay it all back.
What did Don Henley say in that song?
You don't no hearses with luggage racks?
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You have to do what you love.
If you have a job you hate so much you can't even get up in the morning, you don't have a chance.
You will never be successful.
You will never even make all the money the work promises because you will always be doing a terrible job, and no one will like you enough to promote you.
The money you're not making is the price you pay to be happy.
If you're not convinced that it's worth it, maybe you're not as happy as you think you are.
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Quote: : You have to do what you love.
If you have a job you hate so much you can't even get up in the morning, you don't have a chance.
You will never be successful.
You will never even make all the money the work promises because you will always be doing a terrible job, and no one will like you enough to promote you.
The money you're not making is the price you pay to be happy.
If you're not convinced that it's worth it, maybe you're not as happy as you think you are.
I agree with this, and yet take an opposite approach to the same conundrum....
Most of the jobs people do for a living are unpalatable to me.
Therefore, I start from the assumption that you work a job so that you can do what you want in your free time.
But I'm hardly all about the money.
I follow the advice to "live simply", and "know thyself".
Because my expectations are that most things you do for a paycheck are inherently unsatisfying, I don't let the boredom of office work get me down.
In theory, I could make a lot of money someday down the road from the time I sink into my personal interests, but for me, the resources necessary to create the potential to bring about their realization can more expediently be obtained from sinking a portion of my waking hours into the tedium of the mundane world.
But ultimately, money is just a fuel that allows me to pursue passions which are hard to translate into ready cash.
So for me, wealth has a definable threshold beyond which the need to obtain it is no longer a concern.
If all you want to do is drink 40oz's and sleep on the sidewalk then wealth is easy.
If you need a private jet and a personal entourage, then wealth requires a bit more cash.
Money does not neccesarily buy happiness.
Wealth is a state of mind.
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Quote: : Zone Surveys show that only 2% of graduating college students have clear financial goals.
Those 2% end up with more money than the other 98% combined .
Yeah, that's because they had a trust fund.
I agree with dobo: if you want for little, it doesn't take much to make you feel rich.
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Quote: : Wealth is a state of mind.
Words to live by.
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