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PhysForum Science, Physics and Technology Discussion Forums -> An Unlimited Entity
Has anyone explored the assumption that there is an unlimited entity, that is, really taking a serious run at it?
If there were more than one unlimited entity, each would be limited by the other, therefore there can be only one.
Unlimited in all aspects, it would have to be both infinitely large and infinitely small, infinitely "fast" and infinitely "slow" and must include all reality.
Sounds counter-intuitive, but what isn't in current cosmology?
A barrier to exploration most people are unlikely to pay attention to is that the imaging capacity of the human brain is limited, and all the transducers we use to measure anything are likewise limited.
To assume the human brain can image everything of reality, even with our impressive sets of symbolic operations and technology, is arrogant.
However, if there were an unlimited entity, its local operation must be evident in all human experience of reality.
A few thoughts:
Obviously strange in our mental imaging capacity, an unlimited entity would have to traverse every infinitely small point in unlimited "space" in the instant of the present moment.
Also strange to us, between two infinitely small points infinitely close from our mental perspective, there is an infinite number of infinitely small points.
As a single entity, the unlimited cannot traverse the same infinitely small point twice in the same iteration.
To avoid "hitting" itself, it must change trajectory by an infinitely small amount.
Best bet for the single principle of its operation (there must be only one) is the simplest possible set of operations that must fit everything, together and apart.
A mathematical definition of "strings" of unlimited length would be a nice metaphor, but complicated.
It's easier and more fun to mentally play with the possibility of an unlimited entity using ordinary (local and limited) three dimensional coordinates and sequences of events (together and apart).
There is only one way an unlimited entity can randomly generate three classes of waves and subclasses (try thinking process ether or activity matrix).
Try parallel waves (opposite paths in a sequence of iterations) which go straight.
Infinitely close to parallel waves but non parallel (same opposite paths in a sequence of iterations) but travel a helical path and can become a stable pattern if they happen to link head to tail.
Waves of infinitely close to right angle interaction during a single iteration (twisting circular path and two subclasses) can also link head to tail by chance as a standing configuration and with prodigious size variation with interaction of three passes of the unlimited.
These bigger hummers stay put in the instant of the present moment, and the way they evolve by hooking up together and randomly changing partners will show you lots about a lot of things.
And oh yeah, random recombination (together and apart) principle of evolution of everything proceeds toward the maximum ratio of interrelated operations to the total number of operations in the system.
And the red shift is one observation (nobody has been out there between galaxies), and there are other reasons for the other stuff suggesting a big bang.
People are fascinated with stuff that goes boom, and a cycle starting with a whisper of white noise an infinite number of iterations of the unlimited before now is not so impressive.
If you do it right, you can show how all these waves can come together and apart and evolve the familiar patterns and do the same thing with any arbitrary local coordinates.
Go for it guys.
It won't fry your brain and somebody has to figure out the details.
Sporacle
This post has been edited by sporacle on Mar 6 2009, 08:54 AM
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I say the future is unlimited.
Forever Now.
Mitch Raemsch
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Quote: I say the future is unlimited.
Forever Now.
Mitch Raemsch
I don't think so, Mitch.
I suggest there is an unlimited entity, but the future (it's subsequent sequence of interactions) is accelerating on our level of experience but always limited to a specific sequence of evolution.
Sorry to lay this on you, guys, but I think it is worth exploring the assumption that there is an unlimited entity.
I don't propose "answers" because there are too many details, and it's more fun to figure it out yourself.
When you figure out the process geometry of the classes of waves in the activity matrix, you can put the familiar names on their sites of interaction.
I suppose you could call it a try at a theory of everything, but please keep in mind any theory of everything can be falsified by identifying at least one entity or process that doesn't fit.
A few more thoughts:
Everything we experience interacts in the familiar three dimensional coordinates including all the data we get from our transducers.
It's a safe bet local reality would do the same 3D stuff if you were from Mars or another galaxy.
I suggest in an activity matrix (or process ether), the interaction of an unlimited entity with itself has specific local limits: parallel interaction and interaction at infinitely less than perpendicular.
These limits determine the structure of waves and the pattern of their evolutionary interaction.
We often think of unlimited "space" way out there beyond, but rarely think of the possibility of unlimited "space" (infinitely small distance between things) inside stuff.
Keep in mind that in all of our experience things do not scale up or down.
Reality is randomness and order (random recombination).
The interaction (or influence, if you like) of the unlimited on itself (requirement of no "hitting" itself) does a specific pattern, and a key is that the probability of interaction varies with the angle of interaction.
I suggest there is a basic rule: In the course of a single iteration the unlimited entity must traverse every infinitely small point everywhere in the instant of the present moment, and the direction of its pass through any given point is totally random (the requirement of unlimited order and unlimited randomness).
As an infinitely small entity, the question of where it is and where it is not is important to the way waves take place.
We have a problem with time.
We love the concept.
The cerebral cortex of homeotherms can periodically uncouple partially from direct interaction with the environment and reiterate mental images of sequences of events that took place previously in the present moment (daydreaming and night dreaming).
These mental images (memories) can be extrapolated to make predictions of future events.
Our ancestors used this ability to hurl stuff at moving animals to get dinner.
The ability to mentally reiterate sequences of events in 3D and our human ability to put numbers on the process has yielded incredible technology, and today using the concept of past and future is sacred.
It is very difficult to assume everything everywhere takes place in the instant of the present moment.
Go ahead and play with it, and somebody has to put numbers on it.
My bet is the stable interactions of an unlimited entity can be defined in terms of whole numbers.
Sporacle
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If there is no more future then what is there?
(This better make sense.)
Mitch Raemsch
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Quote: If there is no more future then what is there?
(This better make sense.)
Mitch Raemsch
Yeah, Mitch, it's disappointing and a real shame.
The future and the past don't actually exist, so we're stuck in the present and have to make do.
We and everything else are all squeezed into the way too small instant of the present moment.
We don't get a chance to get out of it and think.
Personally I suggest not investing in a time travel machine for bailing out because they can't work.
But not to worry, Mitch, because the present keeps changing, and is never boring because you can never be completely sure how it will change next.
Although the past doesn't exist, we can keep track of what the present is doing, and folks have kept track of the present over a very long sequence of its changes.
This information really helps in placing our bets on how the present will change next in the sequence of events.
Many years ago a couple guys suggested using symbols for stuff and performing operations with them to model changes in a sequence of events in the changing present (included arguments over who was the first to do it), and it included "let dx = 0" (Yikes, I gotta multiply by zero?).
One explanation is it's just adding infinitely small increments between limits.
Infinitely small?
It seems to work fine, and it helped aim the mortars.
Biases from our longstanding personal experience are the hardest to identify.
In Western scientific thinking timing is everything, and we tend to view time as "stuff" that we must organize and use, especially in our models of reality.
Actually "time" is just sequences of events in the sequence of the present moment.
Notably English and other Indo European languages have lots verb tense distinctions for describing sequences of events.
Other cultures and languages often do not have these distinctions.
Important events, even what took place way in the past are often described as though they happen in the present, and the exact order or time of events isn't crucial.
A meeting scheduled for 3PM on Tues may happen sometime Weds or Thurs or maybe not.
Very distressing to western consultants who have OCD.
For everyone, exploring different perspectives and different models will not drive you crazy, make you flunk the next test or grow hair on your hands.
Go for it.
Sporacle
(Donny)
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More on the unlimited entity:
For everyone either bored with your usual or curious enough to get this far, here are some more pieces of the unlimited entity puzzle.
Nobody wants to mess with BS, but BS is usually easy to sniff out quick so it won't get on you.
Really long post, guys, but you could just copy it so you can play with it whenever if you want.
If you think it's BS, just flush it, no problem.
BTW the author has a longstanding local reputation as a generalist, but is otherwise indistinguishable from noise and wants to keep it that way.
The main objective of the unlimited entity question is the fun of figuring it out yourself (science).
Maybe tell your friends and see who gets it together first, and it sure beats doing computer games.
Like an ordinary picture puzzle, as the picture emerges, the rate of assembling the remaining pieces is an acceleration.
[The answer to the life puzzle is that life is the answering of the puzzle HEHE.] Maybe a description of the big picture might give you a reason for taking a shot at it.
It's all in the local process geometry.
The problem with the current Standard Model is that it is outside in, and the solution is turning it inside out.
As it is now, it works extremely well on the small scale (with mathematical complexity and attention to probability) and has yielded awesome technology.
Since it is outside in, the large scale picture is distorted, and does not account for many observations, such as the relatively straight configuration of cosmic jets and the way galaxies rotate like a dinner plate.
Quarks are not in the local bag.
They are circular standing wave configurations with a twisting fine structure as the interaction of three passes of the unlimited entity (infinitely small and infinitely fast) at the limit of infinitely less than a right angle at infinitely close to a point.
Think of a stack of these interactions (like a stack of jacks you may have played with as a kid) taking place in the instant of the present moment.
They are nonetheless in sequence, so the stack twists and curves, and if the stack randomly links as a circle, it is stable and reiterated in the instant of the present moment (and from our perspective probably stable forever).
Quarks (and others in the class) have a prodigious size variation (think from an adjacent atom to far beyond galactic).
They randomly link as stable sites of interaction at right angles (hadrons), and the size of their circular path is proportional to the number of hadrons in which they take part.
There is random variability in the specific locus of the quark linkages (hadrons) and these evolve (accelerate) toward the maximum number of linkages (interrelatedness and greater stability of linkages) of all the quarks involved.
Note that the circular geometry of quarks means that their sites of interaction (hadrons) accelerate together mostly at right angles (unless they are constrained by other activity).
Note that any explanation of gravity must account for the initiation of angular momentum.
Gluons (and others in the class) are probably interaction of two passes of the unlimited, twisting and circular standing waves in a single iteration.
But these are less stable and probably have maximum stability at smaller range of size and take part in local hadron linkages.
Note that hadron sites of interaction of whatever type of standing waves are at right angles and involve a set of three.
The process geometry determines the possibilities and the probabilities.
This is probably enough for now, but if you're still awake and curious, there are the two classes of slow waves in the activity of the unlimited entity, locally limited to parallel and infinitely close to parallel interaction.
These two types are alternating opposite paths of the unlimited with each iteration, and unless otherwise constrained, the wave propagation is at the velocity of light.
It is a local constant of the unlimited and is a local measure of the activity of the unlimited.
Parallel interaction waves of the unlimited (straight line propagation) are the photon class.
These may interact with the parallel aspect of local sites of right angle interaction of other waves.
The infinitely close to parallel interaction waves (helical with roughly circular path and stable only if they happen to link up as roughly circular waves) are the magnetic monopole class.
These can link up at right angles with each other (and other sites of wave interaction at right angles) as leptons but only in one way.
Each may take part in many leptons, and the locus of these sites of interaction (leptons) vary randomly and evolve in one of two ways.
Think magnets.
Way out there away from everything else parallel waves in the photon class are generated by random interaction of the unlimited entity and have a Bell curve distribution of wavelength with the most common in the microwave range (simple local geometry/probability).
(In a way the local size of the unlimited is in the centimeter range.) These waves (and others in the photon class from specific sources) are also gradually damped out by the random interaction of the unlimited, but as they go through an area of high quark density (torus around galaxies) they travel as solitons (bounded waves) so they don't change wavelength.
Thanks for your patience (if you have any left HEHE).
Sporacle
Broadcasting toward the shortest code for the most information.
Addendum:
Might a well throw in some other disorganized stuff including a general summary, basic strategy for exploring and other info with redundant reiteration that may help.
A model of reality that fits must maintain identity when assessed from any perspective by anyone anywhere at any "time" (position in the sequence of events of reality).
The Principle and Pattern of Reality
Abstract: The complexity of reality is bewildering, but we have sufficient data to define the basic principle of reality and assemble a model of the pattern of its evolution.
Truth can be defined, because any theory of everything can be falsified by identifying any entity or process that does not fit.
Arbitrary system boundaries are necessary for assessing local relationships, but exploring the simplest possible set of operations in all contexts and across all contexts demonstrates how it is the basic principle.
Regarding the relationship of the very small and very large, the single assumption that there is an unlimited entity (unlimited in all aspects and there can be only one) indicates an alternative cosmology including technology for point to point transfer of energy and information over prodigious distances in real time.
Current cosmologies are complex, of limited scope and often counterintuitive, but a theory of everything must fit literally everything without exception including all of evolutionary history and every detail of human experience.
There are theories of multiple universes and alternate realities not connected to ours, but if so, exploration is useless.
The assertion here is that reality is a single unified system with a single basic principle and can be understood.
Understanding the unity requires only the mental imaging of sequences of events in ordinary three dimensional space, the same mental process our ancestors used to survive.
However, the exploration includes at least six difficult challenges for us today:
1.
Temporarily suspending our favorite sets of symbolic operations (like being naked with no tools).
2.
Ignoring counterintuitive and supernatural explanations.
3.
Mental play beyond customary thinking.
4.
Relinquishing the importance of personal identity.
5.
The willingness to try turning our current concept of physical reality inside out.
6.
Considering the concept of the infinitely small and infinitely fast.
In essence the task means ignoring everything we know and starting from scratch, but using the same brain our ancestors had.
This thinking carries no risk.
The concept in brief:
Reality is a single unlimited entity, and its activity is the simplest possible set of two operations, together and apart.
This essential principle (evolution) is random recombination toward the maximum ratio of interrelated operations to the total number of operations (the evolutionary optimization principle).
The universe is the definition of infinity.
It is an activity matrix, or process ether, in which three classes of waves take place randomly and evolve together.
From the beginning of the cycle, from a whisper of noise and then an infinite number of iterations, it evolves a specific sequence of organization and we and everybody everywhere else are the middle of the sequence.
In hopes of reducing bewilderment of the reader, it is useful to consider first the standard set of barriers to exploration present throughout the history of science:
1.
We tend to assume we can mentally image anything of reality.
2.
We often think current understanding is comprehensive and almost complete, and we just have to fill in the details.
3.
We assume current technology proves our understanding is correct.
4.
We usually rely on the authority behind ideas.
5.
We are infatuated with our concept of time, because the homeotherm cerebral cortex can reiterate images of previously experienced sequences of events and extrapolate these to make useful predictions.
6.
Perhaps worst, we tend to assume our mental images (and our symbolic constructs) are the same as the reality they depict.
The imaging capacity of the homeotherm cerebral cortex is limited and an unlimited entity is beyond us, but its local operation is everything we experience.
The solution is to accept the definition of an unlimited entity and explore how it could operate locally.
There is only one possibility.
There can be only one unlimited entity, because if there were more than one, each would be limited by the others.
It is a strange conundrum, an entity both infinitely small and infinitely large, both infinitely fast and infinitely slow, both everywhere and nowhere, both nothing and everything, but try following this through:
Infinitely small and infinitely fast, it must traverse every infinitely small point in infinite space in an infinitely small instant.
It would be everywhere and nowhere.
But what is the possible the geometry of its local activity?
Its path must be an infinitely straight line (imagine the infinite kinetic energy of the universe), but in its iteration it must pass a local area from all directions.
From any local three dimensional frame of reference its operation must be the same.
In its iteration it must traverse every infinitely small point in infinite space with certainty, but the direction of its pass through a specific infinitely small point is totally random.
It has both infinite order and infinite randomness.
A key to understanding its operation is considering two infinitely small points infinitely close together.
Between these two points there are an infinite number of infinitely small points, obviously beyond our imaging capacity, but an important assumption.
Each iteration of this unlimited entity has no beginning or ending, but it cannot occupy the same infinitely small point twice on the same iteration.
This would be equivalent to hitting itself, impossible for a single entity.
This requirement is the key to how waves are generated randomly in its activity.
In a local area, in the course of an iteration from all directions, the odds that it will still occupy an infinitely small point are about even but with some random variability.
If its straight path is toward a still occupied infinitely small point, it must change direction an infinitely small amount and through an unoccupied infinitely small point.
In this way its random activity can alter its subsequent path in a local area.
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Keep in mind that if you get this or anything about reality figured out, it is dirt ordinary.
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Oops, forgot the big stuff (old guy).
By following out the single assumption there is an unlimited entity, there is a single set of nine independent and integrally related postulates that include all aspects of reality and from which the above model is obtained.
Go for it.
Sporacle
Randomly recombining parts until they all fit as a unity.
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Sporacle
Unlimited entity - sounds reasonable.
Perhaps one has to accept that such a concept cannot be truly appreciated by human mind, because the very act of understanding or seeing a concept involves a kind of constraint.
In order for something to be defined it must be in a context of relative to something, and already here there is a constraint -
My postulate is that human mind is part of physical world and that physical world fundamentally is quantic - is discrete.
Most - or nearly everything that you are saying in the above posts is according to my ideas -
It is important to make a very clear distinction between the unlimited entity on one hand and "Physical Universe" on the other hand, the latter being part of the former,
Physical Universe - our Universe - should be defined or seen as a mind invention of human brain.
Its existence and all its definitions are strictly bound to the way that human mind perceive the unlimited entity.
Human brain is an intimate part of the unlimited entity (The Everything) and human brain is fundamentally made up of exactly the same stuff as the everything - is is about how part of the everything perceives the everything.
The Everything perhaps should be defined and described as Information, and our Physical Universe can be seen as information that has taken a physical disguise.
"Physical" has to do with "dimension" - "body" - "object of sameness".
When Information takes a physical disguise - it implicates that information bits take the form of "Objects of sameness".
Apart from being dimensional - physical is characterized by its ordered dynamic change - what is being referred to as inertia.
To me the best way to understand and describe and communicate physical world is via the metaphor of how objects of sameness arrange themselves in ever changing configurations in space.
Then what is the smallest object of sameness - or put differently - is there into "existence" such smallest objects of sameness - and I like to think that they should be used as metaphors - human mind cannot understand and describe anything if not using symbols for the understanding.
"Existence" is a very fragile concept - existence is something that is being created via interferences of "SOMETHING" - and I have deliberately chosen object of sameness as my metaphor.
Other people may prefer to use math numbers - some people make their physical reality out from quarks - some people out from waves (without considering is a wave is a meaningful concept without a discrete medium) and so on.
Irrespective which kind of metaphors being used - there are some fundamental issues to be taken into account when trying to model a physical "reality".
- What is the organizing principle ?
-
(a system must be self-organizing - there is no script - there is no instructor - math numbers as such do not self-calculate - quarks as such do not organize themselves in space and do not communicate freely in empty space)
.
- One can also ask what the communicating principle is - ?
(To me it is absurd that communication can be via empty space - in free void - and to me it is absurd to think that physical world can organize itself via haphazard bumping together of "particles" fuzzing around in free space - and what should free space be made of?
- nothingness ?
- Physical world is a paradox of dynamic and organization - how to communicate with excessive accurateness and still being capable of changing "physical" expression - an absurd delicate balance between free void and contact.
I like to think that free void is the mis-fit between objects of sameness arranged in space.
The "smaller" the building blocks the more accurate the fit - and there is no limit for smallness - there is no defined point of dilution - it is solely a question about scale.
Space-fabric is made of objects of sameness dynamically re-arranging in ever shifting configurations - so as to achieve better and better overall fit - reducing free void - reducing the gradient for change.
Any and each re-arrangement of one single object of sameness involve the neighbor - and any single change will spread domino-like - and will be seen as a wave-propagation - and will be met by counter-waves and everything is interferences of such re-arrangements.
BUT - any discrete system will enter into repeating patterns - and repeating patterns are stable expressions -and such stable expressions will form next generation of unit1's -
Entire universe can be seen as such a fabric of objects of sameness - in an extremely ordered "lattice-like" pattern and with all kind of repetitive patterns in all scales.
Human mind or human brain is one such pattern .
Any object of sameness has a kind of self-awareness and a "knowledge" about its neighbors.
More complex repetitive patterns have knowledge about more of its neighborhood and with such increasing awareness one can talk about a kind of consciousness in complex repetitive patterns.
Human mind is a complex pattern with a high grade of consciousness and with the ability of constraining itself from the surroundings and making observations and storing and retrieving such observations (interferences).
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Thanks for the reply, bukh.
Most people are not willing to explore beyond the usual range of thinking.
Sounds like you are playing with many of the pieces, and keep after it.
It has taken sporacle about 30 years (so far, and in spare time) exploring the concept of random recombination toward interrelatedness as the basic principle.
I started with the notion of random recombination as the same process in both the mechanics of biological evolution and the mechanics of neuron operation in the homeotherm cerebral cortex.
(Essentially the information processing throughout the sequence of evolution follows the same principle.
Currently artificial intelligence researchers are using random recombination of information in their studies, and pharmacologists are using it in directed evolution to find new drugs.) Then eventually I tried the notion of the operation of an unlimited entity according to the same principle.
(Realized brain imaging is limited, and reality may be way beyond.)
It will take a long time for all of us together to figure out the details of how things work.
(BTW I have a good local reputation, but wife thinks I may be out to lunch.
Actually today she paid attention to my thoughts about red shift for a while HEHE.) Whatever happens to what anyone thinks, any hypothesis about how it all fits together can be falsified by identifying any entity or process that doesnt fit, and we must all keep searching for the one that fits.
The red shift is a single observation (many times over but the same single process), and as telescopes improve, betcha they will show galaxies with red shifts older than the big bang model.
And oops, it now looks like the universe is still accelerating apart.
And galaxies rotate like a dinner plate, and cosmic jets remain straight for tens of thousands of light years from the source.
Mysterious dark matter and dark energy are postulated.
Echoes of epicycles and phlogiston are with us (sorry, thats not nice, because everybody is serious).
Evolution (random recombination toward maximum interrelatedness) is an acceleration.
In the eversion model of quarks proposed above in this thread, quarks randomly recombine as hadrons toward maximum interrelatedness of all of those involved (the process geometry of gravity).
bukh, thanks for your thoughts about thinking.
For millennia people have thought that thinking is different from the physical world.
On the other hand, some people today believe brain function is an organization of wave functions.
Neither. The homeotherm cerebral cortex is a biological pattern finding system, integral with the sequence of evolution.
In the present moment it can reiterate images of what has taken place before, including our own actions, and extrapolate these to predict future events.
Works way faster than cold blooded creature reproduction to get new behaviors.
In our human cerebral cortex we can also couple small mental images (symbols) with big mental images and share them and play with them as in mathematics.
It has yielded major power of technology.
bukh, you mentioned metaphor, and its crucial.
All we experience and all we are is metaphor.
We do not experience reality directly.
Our biological transducers transmit data from the environment to our cerebral cortex which randomly recombines (evolves) these data and data from our genetic program to generate mental images that are consistent with mental images we already have.
Our experience is these images, metaphors of the reality around us.
We try to keep our behavior congruent with the metaphors our cerebral cortex gives us so we dont screw up and get into trouble.
Because we can include ourselves in our mental imaging, we can direct the course of the evolution of our mental images (decide what to think about) and this helps us stay out of trouble.
Our personal identity is the total set of images, all the metaphors in the biological imaging system we each live in.
Interesting corollary is that during the deeper phases of sleep we do not exist (no images, because the brain is busy pruning out stuff we though that wont work with what our genetic program can carry out), but we reemerge during dreaming and when awake.
Our mental process is integral with all reality.
We cannot mentally image anything unlimited, but an unlimited entity must be inclusive of all the reality we experience and what we measure with our transducers.
The point of this thread is to explore the possibility of an unlimited entity and whether there is one limited and specific set of ways an unlimited entity can interact in a local context.
It is suggested there is only one way it fits together that accounts for everything.
Sporacle
never quits playing (randomly recombining)
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Wow, much to read.
Is energy an entity?
Since it can not be created nor destroyed, would it be an unlimited entity?
I have received no formal education in much of the subject matter on this forum and have only a high school diploma.
What I do know (that would be beyond high school) is what I have learned over the years from reading books, magazines, blogs, forum posts etc.
Or have seen in documentaries, short clips, etc.
The opinions in my post are my own and do not reflect anyone else's unless referenced and may not be correct.
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H2O
"Is energy an entity?
Since it can not be created nor destroyed, would it be an unlimited entity?"
I think that one has to be a little careful not to take it for too granted that energy is a constant - when seen in a universal context.
The idea of constancy of energy is probably a result of calculations being done out from physical conditions on a spot of universe over a split time period.
I like to think that energy actually is being consumed in order to produce entropy.
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Thanks, guys
All the observations we have are local (limited, even from telescopes).
Our current definitions of local activity and models we use are obviously useful.
Mass and energy as currently defined appear equivalent aside from whether an unlimited entity may or may not be involved.
Keep in mind our definitions and models are not necessarily the same as what is actually taking place although they may be very useful metaphors.
Entropy is the going apart of local entities into randomness (takes energy, and footprints on the moon will stay there a long time), but entities can recombine (produces energy).
Ordinary example is fission of large atoms which requires energy, but the subsequent coming together of the components produces energy.
Ordinary human experience example is getting married and getting divorced and how much money you have after each.
An unlimited entity must follow the same together and apart relationships we observe in a local context.
Metaphorically, when it comes together locally it produces something local and it takes something local to make it go apart locally.
It takes a lot of mental trial and error to figure out the details of the three stable patterns of local operation of an unlimited entity (parallel, near parallel and near right angle, and I think youll find the interaction of these patterns fits our mass/energy model.
[Gotta add the challenges of this forum added a little piece (little pieces take months to years).
Thanks! Parallel interaction of the unlimited (photons) is stable only with alternating opposite passes of the unlimited in its sequence of iterations.
In essence it precesses randomly around its unlimited path in the instant of the present.
The noise between parallel opposite passes summates in the specific infinitely small distance between them (technically not infinite, but infinite from our perspective), but the noise may generate or damp waves.
The same applies to near parallel interaction producing helical waves which are stable only if they happen to link end to end as roughly circular waves (magnetic monopoles).
Propagation of both is a local constant.
This system applies with any local coordinates.]
Hope you have fun playing with it.
spo
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Thanks so much to everyone who has commented either positive or negative on the unlimited entity thing on this forum either on this thread or in other specific aspects of it in other threads.
The purpose is simply finding whether anyone else is exploring it and the fun of exploration together if you want.
Understanding any aspect of reality will take all of us together, and comparison of ideas is crucial.
Any differences in ideas are part of reality and are clues to understanding how it all fits together.
Exploring the details of those differences is the grunt work toward understanding.
Takes time.
Cusa mentioned first quantity and bukh indicated something discrete.
Thanks guys. An unlimited entity (unlimited in all attributes) must be infinitely small with no identity (no dimension) but must also be unlimited change.
It must traverse every infinitely small point in an infinite universe in an infinitely small instant.
I suppose in ordinary terms we could think of its basic attribute as the quantity of infinite kinetic energy.
I should add the big bang model is conventional, and maybe its heresy to suggest an infinite number of iterations of the unlimited and that we are the middle of the sequence and then it recycles.
Verifying either requires sufficient data to define the pattern.
I bet the local interaction of the unlimited entity results in the rest of its attributes including the entire sequence of evolution of every aspect of the universe.
In its course everywhere in each iteration in an infinitely small instant it traverses a local area from all directions randomly, but I think in its local interaction (avoiding hitting itself because it is a single entity) there are two specific local limits of interaction, parallel and right angles.
In any local arbitrary local three dimensional coordinates these local limits of interaction permit stable patterns of interaction.
The probability of these interactions depends on the geometry of interaction, and differential probabilities permits evolution.
Try playing with it, and dont be bashful, say what you think.
Whatever, I think its worth continuing to explore together and should be fun.
spo
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Sporacle
Quote: Thanks guys.
An unlimited entity (unlimited in all attributes) must be infinitely small with no identity (no dimension) but must also be unlimited change.
It must traverse every infinitely small point in an infinite universe in an infinitely small instant.
I suppose in ordinary terms we could think of its basic attribute as the quantity of infinite kinetic energy.
I can follow you a very long way on the above - and like to put one comment.
There exist no such thing as an absolute - there exist no such thing as an unlimited entity - there exist no such thing as a true definition - a true concept - "this is how it is"
Everything is according to the eyes of the beholder.
In this context we are trying to define how the well defined entity "Human" perceives "The Everything".
"How the human entity perceives the unlimited entity."
This implicates that our perceiving tool must be in accordance with our self-perceiving - and this is a 3D reality.
We are simply forced to and limited to a perceiving tool that is in accordance with our physical world.
Because what we are aiming at is an understanding of our "Physical World" - it is not a fundamental understanding of our emotional world or anything non-physical in that respect.
This is why I have chosen "object of sameness" as my first quantity - and such a concept MUST have a dimension.
Physical Universe can be described as an informational body, and unlimited entity is the equivalent of the information bit that can be de-coded in the context that is being investigated - in the context that is being defined/described - by our senses.
Or put short - "unlimited entity is a reflexion of the accuracy by which we are perceiving/describing/defining"
In math exactly the same applies - discreteness cannot be escaped when dealing with numbers.
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