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Uk Thoughts - KryptonSite Message Forums
Well guys another episode that i officially rate!!!!...i even quite like the idea of the phantom zoners as they appear to be truer to the mythology than freak of the week ever was!!..and thats what i thought might happen....we had the beginning of the journey to become superman, Clarks recognising his destiny, not resisting it...lexs god like obsession with 'saving' the world...and so much more.
I like how each episode seems to be starting new storyline threads which all neatly intertwine...at many points last night i was sitting there thinking 'wow'!!..esp at the end with martha and Clark..her prompting him to begin his traning, his realisation that he is there for a reason...the stirring strings of the superman theme ..and the shot to the crystal S poignantly wrapping up the episode....
yep..im liking this season more and more...tho cant believe its episode six already!!..where is time going!!1..seems like it took years for us to get this season..now we are quarter way thru
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It was a good epi, it was sad when raya died, i almost wished she had stayed so her a clark could have been an item (maybe it would help him move on) anyway i did like the ending , but as i know whats coming I felt it was pointless ....which was a shame because clark was soo his future self last night IMO
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Typically at this point in a season of smallville we'd be buried deep in filler material.
This year there's so much going on there hardly seems to be time to fit everything in.
Another great ep, with Lex and Clark very close to their destinies now.
Most characters are developing nicely, and Jimmy is providing some decent lighter moments.
I really think Raya died too soon though.
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Not as engaging as the last few eps, but still a good episode.
Jimmy was great, and clark is *finally* accepting his destiny!
Lana and lex are starting to become enemies too.
The only thing that let the episode down was new girl, she wasn't the least bit interesting.
For years clark ignored jor-el's advice, but as soon as a hot girl tells him to accept his destiny and enter his training, clark is all 'great idea, what are you waiting for, lets get training.' And then she just sacrifices her life to save clark even though she barely knows him, pah.
Also, I can understand the lack of lois, right now it would be impossible for her to have a cameo, she's so much part of the ollie story she couldn't appear unless she was a big part of the ep.
And I'm cool with that.
But surely they could have found a way to work lionel in?
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Well I think John Glover is usually only contracted to do so many episodes, so I'd rather he was used wisely.
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Quote: :
well guys another episode that i officially rate!!!!...i even quite like the idea of the phantom zoners as they appear to be truer to the mythology than freak of the week ever was!!
Yeah I agree, I know a lot of people must be thinking what's the difference, but I think the Zoners offer much more of a threat than the FOTW's could ever do - any one could cause just as much damage and chaos as Zod did, and I think that's why Clark realises (with the help of Raya) he MUST embrace his destiny, since he's the only one who can stop them plus he probably feels responsible for helping them escape too - so he sees it as his duty to put right the wrong.
Raya did die too soon, another ep at least would have been nice - but I think people might have confused her for Supergirl which she's not.
Overall a great ep!
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I hate to go against the prevailing view, but I thought that this was the return of "Dullsville".
After two good episodes, a mediocre script and listless performances brought this back down to earth with a bump.
Acting-wise, this story showed how much energy Erica Durance, John Glover and Justin Hartley bring to their scenes, and their fellow actors.
Here, even the normally reliable Michael Rosenbaum appeared to be phoning in his performance.
However, he may have been affected by the curse of Lana.
Having praised the way Kristin Kreuk seemed more effective in a smaller supporting role, this episode showed the problems that arise when you try and move her into more of a leading role.
Quite honestly, she sucked the life out of virtually every scene in which she appeared, and her attempts to play Lex at his own game seemed unintentionally comical.
Some may like the idea of "scheming Lana", but it doesn't help when Kristin Kreuk looks about as convincing in that role as Paris Hilton giving a lecture on quantum mechanics.
As for the whole Raya/Zoner/mythology plot, casting Pascale Hutton and Bow Wow didn't help.
They might look good, but they displayed little acting ability.
But, the primary problem lay with the script.
In theory, Zoners should be more interesting than Freaks of the Week.
Not if they are going to be written as dully as this.
Equally, the reappearance of Raya could have been a great opportunity to get across to the audience just what Clark had lost with the destruction of Krypton.
Unfortunately, she was written as a one-dimensional mouthpiece for a few platitudes.
There was no sense that she was a member of a once-great civilisation.
Instead, she came across as a pretty woman, but not a very interesting one.
As a result, I couldn't have cared less when she was killed, and it seemed odd when Clark talked about her giving him a sense of what he had lost.
On the evidence of this episode, he was not missing much.
All in all, this was potentially great episode at the treatment stage.
An enemy able to match Clark, combined with Kryptonian mythology and Clark pledging himself to his destiny should have been a winner.
Instead, what we got was dull, earnest, leaden, with none of the excitement or drama that it should have had.
I can understand that there are those who like this episode because of the way it pushes Clark towards his destiny.
However, to my mind, such a pivotal episode should have been executed to the highest standards.
To deliver instead what was, to my mind, the weakest episode of the season so far (and, yes, I have seen "Wither"!) means that its makers deserve greater criticism, not less.
Oh look!
Lois, Oliver and the MB are back next week.
Let's hope they perk things up!
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So you didn't like it then?
Got to say, I'm firmly in the pro-Fallout camp.
However, I can see where you're coming from newbaggy, it's just that some of the things you mentioned didn't affect my enjoyment of the episode.
I was actually surprised by how important this episode turned out to be going by the general (US) views of this season Fallout doesn't seem to crop up as one of the standout episodes.
Yet to my mind the themes and tone are reminiscent of Rosetta (I take your point though, newbaggy, that it wasn't executed to those standards).
There were many more "Wow" moments than I was expecting, as you say keeforelli, and these centered around all the talk of Kal-el's destiny and the manner in which he has effectively wasted time.
I love the way Raya presented Jor-el as a great man, which flies in the face of all that has gone before in Smallville.
Plus there were some clues that suggest Clark DID misread the message in his ship in Rosetta.
Although Bow Wow maybe wasn't the best alien we have ever seen on tv, his Zoner was a vast improvement on the woman in Wither!
People have talked a fair bit about the improved role of Lois in these UK threads and I have to say that I missed her (and Ollie) in this episode.
It goes without saying that I always miss Lionel!
All in all a very good episode.
I'm very pleased to see three strong episodes like this in a row.
It bodes well for a really good season (especially as these last 3 don't seem to be among the most highly rated of the season - according to those that have seen it!)
There is lots more that I would like to say about this episode but my time is precious at the moment!
My second son was born on Saturday so I'm going to have to restrict myself to one post a week!
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Quote: : Dance
So you didn't like it then?
Afraid not! I'm someone who looks for episodes to work as good drama first, with continuity and mythology references as more of a nice to have.
So, if the acting and writing are seriously below par, that tends to kill the "wow" factor for me.
I still think that there is the basis of a really good episode there.
I'd just want to remake it using a different writer, maybe a different director, recast some of the roles...
BTW congratulations on your new baby.
May he be healthy and well-behaved!
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Hey lex dance!!!!
congrats!!!!
And as for your views on fallout..couldnt agree more....
I always post on a monday morning b4 i can actually think..and you always write what im thinking leaving me feeling all unarticulate!!!!..and as for the jor el references...spot on...seems like they are going to correct some of the contrasts with the legend that smallville had presented b4...
newbaggy...i always respect that people want different things from smallville...and i have seen some groansome moments on it before...i just like the feel of this season..tho i was awesomely disappointed by wither...i have never really watched smallville for the acting..cos im not really sure if it stands up with american drama at its best..( always assuming that it was for the teen market b4 i realised its sometimes rated 15 on DVD)...i just like it for what it is...escapism (tho never EVER got the kristin kreuk fascination) This season has seemed more mature in feel..thats what appeals....but i do think that there are people such as yourself that show a lot more insight than i have with regards to character development and acting so when i read your post i understood what is wanted and where it disappointed think im just simple he he..i like the fact that fallout has set the season a different path....its just a shame they only really have 40 mins per week to tell each story..oh and on E4 this week it was late ON...
continued....
AND WHAT IS WITH E4 PUTTING THE ADS ON BEFORE THE OPENING CREDITS HAVE ROLLED!!!!
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Quote: :
this was potentially great episode at the treatment stage.
An enemy able to match Clark, combined with Kryptonian mythology and Clark pledging himself to his destiny should have been a winner.
Instead, what we got was dull, earnest, leaden, with none of the excitement or drama that it should have had.
I totally get where youre coming from, this episode had the potential to be THE greatest and most potent story from all that have come before - and we basically get a sub standard filler at best!
Saying that somehow I looked past it's treatment of what could have been, and managed to be quite impressed with what was a gem of an ep, simply because as Lex Dance points out we're all expecting THE worst, and as keeforelli says mostly the majority watch Smallville for pure escapism, and never really expect high end drama on the levels of Lost or Heroes - I see this as more a fun kind of show that never really should be taken too seriously - it's allways good when a really great dramatic ep is shown, though I never hope for too much.
Quote: : Dance
My second son was born on Saturday so I'm going to have to restrict myself to one post a week!
Wow! I never even knew you had one son congratulations!
So did the temptation to name him Lex or Alexander overwhelm you?
First Krypto, now you - guess it's up to me to keep this thread going!
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Found it ok, but a bit pedestrian.
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OK, I will happily accept that I'm in a minority of one on this episode.
However, before I get tagged as "Mr Serious Drama Guy", I have to say that I generally look for Smallville to be good escapist fun.
Part of the reason that I don't like "Lost" and "Heroes" is that those shows give off a self-conscious air of wanting to be Serious Drama, with any sort of humour to be avoided at all costs in case they are Not Taken Seriously.
In my book, a few jokes might stop them coming across as pretentious nonsense, but that's just me!
If "Fallout" had contained a few decent jokes (sorry, but Jimmy thinking Lex is in league with the Egyptians doesn't count) and a sense that it was made by people who understood that seriousness and humour are not incompatible, I might be more charitable towards it.
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Quote: :
Part of the reason that I don't like "Lost" and "Heroes" is that those shows give off a self-conscious air of wanting to be Serious Drama, with any sort of humour to be avoided at all costs in case they are Not Taken Seriously.
WOW! Really? Do you watch those shows???
I think they're funny as hell!!!
I mean in Lost we have Sawyer, Hurley, Charlie, and even good old Doc Shephard providing a consistent light hearted moment - Ive not watched quite as much Heroes as I would like, but Hiro is anything but serious.
Quote: :
If "Fallout" had contained a few decent jokes (sorry, but Jimmy thinking Lex is in league with the Egyptians doesn't count), I might be more charitable towards it.
How could you not laugh at Jimmy's comment, it's just so god damned hilarious!
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Quote: :
WOW! Really?
Do you watch those shows???
I think they're funny as hell!!!
I mean in Lost we have Sawyer, Hurley, Charlie, and even good old Doc Shephard providing a consistent light hearted moment - Ive not watched quite as much Heroes as I would like, but Hiro is anything but serious.
You've probably seen rather more Lost than me as (a) I don't have Sky, and (b) I gave up after six episodes as I was losing the will to live.
I suspect that your "light-hearted" moments were the ones that struck me as merely "dull", as opposed to the "very dull" moments that made up the rest of the episodes .
In fact, the whole thing struck me as so tedious that I could probably find more "consistently light-hearted moments" in an Ingmar Bergman movie!
Based on the newspaper previews for Heroes, I had high hopes for Hiro.
Having seen the show, he's probably the best thing in it, but the trouble is that he feels like the token attempt at comedy (and he isn't that funny), whilst the rest of the show is so self-consciously serious and portentous that it overwhelms the little light relief he can bring.
All the other characters come across as so boring that I wouldn't mind if Sylar killed a few of them (especially, the Indian doctor - I can't stand that stupid, pretentious voiceover!).
Actually, Heroes reminds me of some early eighties Doctor Who stories - an interesting basic idea spoiled by dull and unengaging storytelling.
Quote: : How could you not laugh at Jimmy's comment, it's just so god damned hilarious!
Erm, cos I don't think it's that hilarious.
If the script had set it up better, and Aaron Ashmore had delivered it better, then it might have raised a chuckle.
As it was, I felt it went down like a lead balloon.
Sorry.
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Do those crisps come in learn to lighten up flavour, or are they all the one hard to please variety?
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Quote: :
Do those crisps come in learn to lighten up flavour, or are they all the one hard to please variety?
I'm trying to get the ones with the Prozac, but I'm not having much luck!
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Quote: :
Do those crisps come in learn to lighten up flavour, or are they all the one hard to please variety?
lovin that!!!!...there is humour in this thread if no where else!!!!
tho newbaggy i do have to ask...is there anyyhing wrong with serious drama?...and serious stuff trying to be serious stuff?...and lost..once you get into it is actually compelling and does have moments of humour..but its never over done....as for heroes..well im a new and very commited fan...i dont miss any humour..more marvel at what i believe to be an excellent premise that twists a new way each week...and back to small ville...can i ask if it is your favourite US show?....is it just fallout that has disappointed you?....or the season in general?
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Quote: :
lovin that!!!!...there is humour in this thread if no where else!!!!
tho newbaggy i do have to ask...is there anyyhing wrong with serious drama?...and serious stuff trying to be serious stuff?...and lost..once you get into it is actually compelling and does have moments of humour..but its never over done....as for heroes..well im a new and very commited fan...i dont miss any humour..more marvel at what i believe to be an excellent premise that twists a new way each week...and back to small ville...can i ask if it is your favourite US show?....is it just fallout that has disappointed you?....or the season in general?
I love serious drama, but I hate it when writers try to pass off solemnity and potentousness as seriousness.
I'll give you an example to try and explain.
In the late Seventies, the esteemed director Linday Anderson adapted an Alan Bennett play for television, but deliberately removed all the humour from the script so that the play could achieve its "true seriousness".
Clive James, then TV critic of "The Observer", described the result as resembling a "Brecht rewrite of Duck Soup", and pointed out that removing the jokes from the script actually removed some of the serious points that Bennett was trying to make.
He added the the production proved "that even a writer as intelligent as Alan Bennett can fall prey to the delusion that solemnity equals seriousness".
That's what Heroes feels like to me: something that's trying to look like a Big Serious Drama, but isn't.
All the solemnity and potentousness simply emphasises how banal are the script and characterisations.
It has a lifelessness that has nothing to do with being a good serious drama.
Actually, that is where Smallville scores for me over something like Heroes.
Yes, it's hardly Shakespeare, but on a good day, it's good unpretentious fun with lively characterisations.
"Fallout" was a bad episode for me because it fell into the "trying too hard to be serious" trap, and ended up feeling flat and lifeless.
"Arrow" and "Reunion" simultaneously manged to be more fun and more serious.
As far as the rest of this season goes "Sneeze" and "Wither" were not great as drama, but had just enough fun moments to make their weaknesses forgiveable.
The other low point for me was "Zod", for similar reasons to my dislike of "Vessel".
Both these episodes were basically positioning exercises, more concerned with ensuring that particular characters were in particular locations than telling a good story.
Rather like an early-eighties Bond movie, the stunts and spectacle were enjoyable, but it was hard to care about what was going on.
So, possibly the two biggest "mythos" episodes of the season are the ones I would give a thumbs-down to.
However, in both cases, I would say that it wasn't the mythos that was the problem, but the storytelling.
And, even though I may be a bit of an old misery at times, I am liking this season overall.
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