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UltimateDisney.com / DVDizzy.com Forum :: View topic - Adult Cartoons
Ok, I did a search and found no threads on this particular subject, so I hope it's alright that I begin such a topic.
It has recently been brought up in another thread and I feel it would be more appropriate to have a thread of its own in order to continue the discussion.
I also don't feel it belongs in the anime thread since this subject goes beyond hentai, not to mention anime and manga in generral.
I want to stress that I don't plan on getting explicit nor do I expect anyone else to, and anyone who wishes to reply should keep in mind the nature of the forum we're in and be respectful of it (just covering my bases here, I don't want to see heated debates flame up or have this thread get locked, lol).
At any rate, I've always loved animation, cartoons, and comics in general, and like many other fans, have felt frustrated to see the limits generally enforced on the artforms since they're broadly considered children's mediums.
Fortunately, these days it seems more acceptable to explore more mature issues although I doubt it will ever equate live-action when it comes to being accepted.
It was refreshing to me to see Disney approach more mature (but not necessarily "adult") subject matters in films such as Hunchback, Pocahontas, Beauty and the Beast, etc.
It also exists in the earlier features in varying degrees, although many people are still quick to dismiss it as little more than children's entertainment.
I'd still love to see it pushed further but I doubt Disney will ever be comfortable in such a position.
And speaking of Disney, an old friend introduced me to some of JAB's art in the late 90's, but I had no internet myself and couldn't exactly access any sites like that in the libraries, lol.
(For those not in the know, JAB is a former Disney animator that draws adult toons).
When I finally got my own computer a few years later I remembered the name and found his official site.
Unfortunately it was soon after much of the art I'd been curious about had to be pulled down due to legal issues, something he tried to make up for by shifting his main focus to his OC's.
I fell in love with his artwork regardless.
I later became a staff member of his site and a moderator for his forum, trying a hand at the genre myself before finding my niche with the not-so-explicit-yet-still-adult material I've mostly settled into these days.
Not to get too personal here, but I'd had some issues in the past with my sexuality, and wow .
. . creating and working with adult-based art was strangely yet amazingly therapeutic for me, making me much more comfortable with who I am and what I had to deal with in the past.
It was also great to make connections with other fans and artists that that had similar interests.
Heh, his forum is also where I met my current boyfriend.
Anyway, on top of being an amazingly talented artist, JAB is a pretty cool guy and rather philosophical, but a lot of people blow him off completely if they have no appreciation for the genre.
I'm still blown away by the fact that I've gotten to chat with him numerous times and that he's drawn me and some of my characters.
Unfortunately, I recently chose to leave his staff and no longer moderate for his forum (long story there) but I still have a lot of respect and admiration for the guy and plan on keeping in touch with him.
Interestingly, he didn't leave the free jabarchives site and create his current "comix" paysite until after the lay-offs at Disney occurred and the 2D studio was shut down, as he still wanted to make a living from his drawings (not that I blame him, lol).
He once mentioned that he's not bitter about losing his job, but enjoyed his time at Disney while it lasted and appreciated the fact that losing the position opened another door for him.
Anyway, I thought this might also be a good place to discuss some other works, like some of Ralph Bakshi's films, Heavy Metal, Liquid Television and other MTV-esque series and shorts, and possibly some hentai titles that might feel out of place in the anime thread.
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As far as Ralph Bakshi goes, I watched Fritz the Cat, and really didn't like it.
It wasn't telling a good story, the animation was horrible, and the "dialogue" was recorded conversations, kind of like Creature Comforts.
I have heard people say they like the dialogue, because it's natural instead of scripted, but the problem is that it often has no real bearing on the movie, or the movie tried to shoehorn it in instead of progressing the plot.
Of course, to the movie's fans, someone wanting plot progression, good animation, etc., is a big square.
I think the movie is liked primarily because it's an X-Rated cartoon, and it probably helps if you are on drugs when you watch it (which I wasn't.)
Wizards is pretty messed up, but it is easier to follow than Fritz.
I have Fire & Ice, but haven't watched it yet.
Since I consider puppetry to be akin to animation in some ways, Meet the Feebles should fit here as well.
One of Peter Jackson's early films, this is great fun, in a horribly demented way.
Sex and violence abound, you have a fox singing the musical number "Sodomy," a rabbit thinks he's dying from "The Big One" (AIDS or some other STD), there is a machine gun massacre, and many other bits.
Spike & Mike's Festival of Animation has multiple DVDs, including one called Sick and Twisted Festival of Animation.
This is a compilation of short films, many of which are "sick and twisted." While I don't know if this actually includes Bambi Meets Godzilla, there are films of the same vein, and worse.
I think Bambi Meets Godzilla may be on the other disc in the set: Classic Festival of Animation.
Other stuff (some of these are pretty immature, but they are still meant for adults, not kids.)
Team America: World Police is a great marionette film from the creators of South Park.
Drawn Together is pretty wrong: Cross Family Guy and South Park, and gather a bunch of different animation stereotypes living in a "Big Brother" type of house for reality TV.
Quads is a Canadian show about a drunk who is paralyzed when he is hit by a rich drunk driver, who has to pay the first guy a ton of money.
Personally, I didn't care for it.
Puppets Who Kill was pretty fun, I hope they bring out the rest of the seasons on DVD.
Greg the Bunny was great, I still need to get the DVDs.
TV Funhouse was another fun show, although it was live-action and puppets.
I think it aired on Fox, so it probably wasn't much more explicit than Family Guy.
Hentai is actually a thousand times more watchable than regular porn.
You have comedy, romances, mystery, thriller, horror, and just about any other genre imaginable, many of these are well-acted, well-written, and well-drawn..
Compare that to the average "plot" of American porn: "Hi, I'm here to fix your cable...
OK, lets have sex!"
Hentai can be watched with a group of friends or even strangers (like at an Anime convention,) without necessarily causing embarassment, depending on the group.
On the other hand, watching plain porn in a group can be uncomfortable even with your closest friends.
I have always particularly liked the comedic shows, such as Rei Rei, Magical Twilight, F3 (Frantic, Frustrated and Female,) and other shows like that.
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Well, as I mentioned in the Rock and Rule thread, I once "discovered" Heavy Metal on cable as a kid, possibly on A&E network, a network that might not be around anymore, I'm not sure.
I discovered the Evil Dead films there too, though I'm still unsure if I discovered Heavy Metal there or on TBS.
Anyway, I definitely saw it again later on TBS along with American Pop, Vampire Hunter D, and Robot Carnival, and I caught some on tape along with Rock and Rule when it ran on TNT at a later date (with Heavy Metal and American Pop).
What I'm getting at is, discovering these films was an awakening for me that more mature animation did exist out there besides the really badly done x-rated cartoons I had heard of but never seen (and no, I'm not talking about hentai, which often is pretty darn good, ha).
Now, I may have read about films like American Pop and so on, but I hadn't seen them yet.
And it's not that I didn't have respect for animation already.
I have been an obsessive Disney fan for as far back as I can remember, and few things are more annoying to me than folks with that "animation is for kids" attitude, even about Disney animation, which I still think of as "for everyone", or much other animation.
Why some people can't get enjoyment out of it I'll never know.
But anyways...
So, yeah, though I have a strong love for wholesome, family oriented stuff, I like grittier stuff too, and animation is not only very capable of handling this beautifully, it also is fascinating to see since it is so unusual to the American eye.
I do have to say though, that the idea of getting Disney involved in such material is a touchy one for me.
As much as I'd love to see some Disney calibur adult animation, there is a line I like to see drawn for Disney.
I do like to view the name as representative of all-ages entertainment.
Though they kinda haven't stayed true to that lately anyway, gearing so much material specifically to certain age ranges, but still, it's a little different than going for "adult" stuff.
But all I'm saying is, I fully approve of Disney animation evolving to be as "mature" as any of their live-action material.
That I'm fine with.
I loved Hunchback, Pocahontas (when the musical number was restored), and though it could have been better, I enjoy Black Cauldron as well.
I just don't really want to see R rated films from Disney, not in live-action or animation, because that just doesn't seem like something Walt would approve of (and maybe I'm wrong about that, I don't know) and would change the overall idea of what a "Disney" film is.
But, I WOULD love for some other studios to hire up all those fired Disney animators and go that route!
I'd love to see that level of talent and quality producing more films in the vein of Rock and Rule and Heavy Metal (and hentai, but I won't hold my breath for high-quality, Disney-esque, American-produced hentai animation, ha).
Or, maybe it wouldn't be so bad if Disney just came out with a new banner for more adult-geared animated films, like they have done for their live-action stuff (initially with Touchstone).
Of course, they're surely too tight to even consider such a move.
Now Jab, there'd be the right guy to head an American hentai studio, ha (though it would probably have to hit the overseas market bigtime to turn a profit, Americans so widely viewing animation the way they do).
I can't subscribe to any sites at the moment, so it's been a while since I've seen any of his fresh work, but from the original work I have seen, wow, it'd just be awesome to see animated (if you like that sort of stuff).
I mean, his style (of course, very Disney-esque) is just right on the money for me.
As I mentioned before, when he used to do other people's characters, well, that was just incredible, especially his older take on Alice.
Like I mentioned in the other forum, his grown-up Alice would be my favorite cartoon character if she was an official version of Alice.
As it is though, I have to stick with Ariel, Tink and Sailor Moon officially, ha.
But, oh, your Kim Possible stuff, Enigmawing (and your others), right up there with Jab for me, though as you say, not as explicit.
Anyway, it's sad that Jab doesn't do the well-known characters too now and then (unless I just am not aware of it, not being subscribed to his site, ha), because he was just so good and there is something a little extra attractive about characters you've loved for years and seen in full, high-quality animation...
How awesome that you got to be a part of his staff for a while!
I would just be happy to be part of any staff that deals in an artform I like, not the part-time gig I have right now at a sign shop that only provides DVD money for me as I still seek a way to make my own art profitable, ha.
I know what you're saying about such work being therapeutic though.
My comic strip has been that way for me, even if it is more Adult Swim type material and not even R rated, ha.
I never thought I'd be doing a strip like that, but then I thought I'd be a rising Disney animator by now too, ha.
Incidentally, Enigmawing, I have never been allowed to use PMs here for some reason, though I can read them.
Just to let you know, I've added you to my AIM buddy list (after I downloaded AIM just now, ha, so I still need to learn to use it), and have really enjoyed discussing these topics with you lately too.
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Bakshi is an interesting subject.
I have only seen some of his work.
In general, I find it too ugly for my tastes, both the art and the stories, though I do LOVE American Pop (and the brunette in Cool World, ha).
I own "Heavy Traffic" at the moment (even though it is not really my kind of flick;
I'm just not into the inner-city street life genre) and would like to get more of his work, if only for its historical significance in the field and flat out curiosity to see it.
It IS intriguing.
I have yet to see Fritz the Cat or Fire and Ice, and I'd definitely like to check out Spicy City.
I remember when his Mighty Mouse series was on and vaguely remember the controversy surrounding it.
I still wish I'd watched it a bit more closely (I'm sure I did catch some of it).
Gonna have to see what of his work I can find on YouTube.
I have seen Wizards and Hey, Good Lookin', but like I said, I do find his work so...
Unattractive most of the time.
It's fascinating in its own way though.
I know what you mean about the way he likes to use the unscripted dialogue and all.
It's both part of what makes his work interesting and part of what makes it feel sloppy to me.
I do love it in Creature Comforts though, and I seem to recall the earlier episodes of Home Movies having a similar sound.
Haven't seen Meet the Feebles, but I've wanted to for some time.
This thread, if it survives, ha, certainly is going to provide a lot of new titles for me to look into.
Yeah, most of the adult animation on TV we have here is extremely immature comedy.
It can be very funny and opened animation up to more adults, but still allows people to maintain the opinion that it is a medium for the immature.
It also can get a bit too preachy for me when it feels like pushing an idea (South Park is a good example, or the entire subject of Moral Orel) as an opportunity to mock people of varying beliefs sometimes a bit too harshly.
Though I'm not promoting the PC viewpoint or anything, but sometimes it seems to get downright carried away and meanspirited so as to get me to roll my eyes or change the channel.
Drawn Together I haven't seen enough of yet, and I'm constantly amazed at the things they get away with in terms of using the likenesses of popular characters (like Popeye), but it is really hilarious.
Family Guy is probably my personal favorite of these types of shows.
I was rather big on Futurama for a while too, but then I saw the same episodes too many times.
Though I still love it.
In fact, I hate to say it, but when I started getting into Futurama I totally abandoned The Simpsons, as I just found Futurama so much funnier, ha.
Now, Robot Chicken's success I'll never understand, despite collecting toys as I do, ha.
I mean, it can be funny.
It can be really funny, but most of it just isn't.
And, yeah, Hentai is totally above and beyond the live-action alternative, and I'm amazed at how well-done much of it is, as if it is not even hentai.
I mean, viewing it as an American, where live-action porn is barely above home movie quality (when it isn't home movie quality).
It's hard to imagine such fully realized stuff in animated format, ha.
Which is what makes Enigmawing and I fantasize about how it would be to see such material in the Disney style, ha!
In terms of plot though, it's a delicate balance.
Sometimes there is too much plot and not enough action, and as you mentioned, they have the different genres but it seems like the most abundant is the horror/violent/sci-fi/tentacle stuff, while I'm more into a more pleasant and consentual experience.
A few I have seen are Magical Twilight (which I enjoyed enough to get the DVD of off Ebay), La Blue Girl (which I have in a big VHS set that I hope to eventually upgrade to space-saving DVDs), End of Summer (rather nice, I need to get this one too, though I have it recorded I think), Kama Sutra (not as high of art quality, kinda like the old Anime style from Nickelodeon), and just a few others that I forget the titles of.
La Blue Girl was one of the first I ever saw, and there's a lot of that rough stuff I don't really like in it, but I love the way the girls are drawn and there are a few scenes I LOVE.
But anyway, as I mentioned in the other thread about the live-action American alternative, for me the hentai has a lot more appeal largely because of the girl next door quality of the characters, plus cartoon cutesiness.
I always liked the cute types the most, with big eyes and all, and I hate tattoos and implants, which are a staple of live-action now.
On the bright side though, thanks to the internet I have discovered that there is a lot of new live-action stuff leaning more towards the cutesy, girl next door look.
Blame Girls Gone Wild, ha.
Then there's the really oldschool stuff that actually have plots and try to act like a real movie (sorta like in Boogie Nights), but with those, again, not so very attractive performers for the most part.
So, yeah, Hentai is still overall the best for that genre if you want beauty, explicitness, AND plot.
But if Jab helmed a feature he could really blow everyone away.
I wonder if he has at least considered doing some shorts, ha.
I'd certainly buy a DVD off him.
He could be the Disney of hentai!
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A&E network is still around.
I'm somewhat of a Family Guy viewer.
That's as close to "Adult" as my 'toon viewing gets in everyday life.
When it's time for bed, most teens are having breakfast.
http://www.kh2.co.uk/assets/kh2/artwork/kh2uo03.jpg http://i.neoseeker.com/fa/Riku_TheOnlyOne_SoldMySoul2_397857_ute9I.jpg
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