Advanced Search
Welcome to Omgili,
Omgili (Oh My God I Love It ;) is a search engine for discussions. With Omgili you can find answers and solutions, debates, discussions, personal experiences, opinions and more... To learn more about Omgili click here.

This is a complete preview of the discussion as it was indexed by Omgili crawlers. Use this preview if the original discussion is unavailable.
Click here to view the original discussion.

Serious music or generic TV commercial music? - Harmony Central Musician Community Forums

Does anyone here feel like they’d be selling out if you were trying to create serious music but say, got offers from people to have parts of your songs used in say, a TV commercial or jingle or something?

Would you refuse to have your musical name associated with such frivolity and continue struggling to make your serious music heard in the way it deserves, or would you take what you can get in terms of payment to enable you to more easily continue to make the music you really care about?

And if some TV people asked you to make more of what you consider to be cheesy commercial music, would you, if it paid ok? Just curious.

Lol.

Well, yeah. You'd be pretty foolish not to.

I'm wondering, how would serious music be "heard in the way that it deserves"???

Although I know what you're getting at, I don't really think this makes sense.

In reality, this usually translates to "not being heard at all".

Anyway, assuming we're talking about being used as a commercial jingle as opposed to, say, a major label push...

What's the difference?

How would you know that there aren't "serious" fans to be gained through a television audience?

I mean, maybe if the product being advertised was waaay out of the question, but really???

I'd say 95 percent of the time, no way!

If I got an offer for one of my songs to be used in a TV commercial, you'd better believe I'd take it.

The only time it might not make sense is if it was a product that conflicted with some of my beliefs.

Being a vegetarian, I wouldn't be very comfortable with one of my songs being used in a beef commercial.

Then again, if the money was good enough...I'm certainly not an idealist. Also, times have changed.

"Selling out" is an outdated term anyway, because it doesn't hold the same stigma it once did.

Here's the thing...TV commercials are really one of the only avenues left for non-mainstream sounding music to reach a wider audience.

Quite a few artists who've had one of their songs used in an ad, such as Ingrid Michaelson and Feist, have seen major boosts in their careers.

Now, this sort of thing doesn't happen all the time.

But at the very least, more people will hear the song, and the artist gets paid for it. The only thing I have no interest in is writing jingles (the "You Deserve a Break Today" kind), because I find them annoying.

And apparently most people have come to agree, because jingles aren't used nearly as much in commercials anymore.

Hopefully, that trend will continue.

Met a guy who writes Jingles once.

His wife worked with my wife.

I thought it was the coolest thing ever!

But he was really embarrased about it.

He wouldn't say where his music ended up, what kind of stuff he did.

Neither did his wife.

It was supposed to be a secret, what he did.

He was an almost-made-it indie-rocker type that started making music for commercials and stuff.

Guess he kind of hated himself for it.

But he was making really good money doing it, though.

He and his wife were always taking nice trips to Europe.

Had a killer car.

That kind of thing.

I never understood why he wasn't proud of what he was doing.

I'd kill to be able to do something like that. Actually, I know another guy that does commercial music too.

I just remembered.

He's kind of embarrased about it too.

His dad was a successful record producer.

Kind of kid that grew up knowing "Uncle Dave" - only to learn later that Uncle Dave is, you know, David Bowie.

That kind of thing.

He's scored a couple of National Commercials.

That blew me away!

But he doesn't talk about it much.

He's more passionate about the music close to his heart, this solo electronica-type stuff he plays at bars and small music venues around the city.

Doesn't make any money there, though. But yeah.

The two people I know who make commercials are awesome musicians that kind of just fell into it.

Serious music gets tapped for commercials all the time.

If it's yours, and they'll pay for it, great! Likewise, cheesy commercial music doesn't just exist in cheesy commercials -- a quick glance at the pop charts will confirm that. And concerning jingles (yes, I've written my share), who's to say that the Black Eyed Peas song "My Hump" didn't start life as a jingle for a self-storage facility?

("What are you gonna do with all that junk inside your trunk?")

Quote: : Bartus Serious music gets tapped for commercials all the time.

If it's yours, and they'll pay for it, great! Likewise, cheesy commercial music doesn't just exist in cheesy commercials -- a quick glance at the pop charts will confirm that. And concerning jingles (yes, I've written my share), who's to say that the Black Eyed Peas song "My Hump" didn't start life as a jingle for a self-storage facility?

("What are you gonna do with all that junk inside your trunk?") Haha, hilarious. I like the idea of jingle writing, personally.

They're fun, simplistic and quick to write (in my experience).

Makes for great side-money so that I can continue to work on my other, more serious, material. I can see Kenny Chesney singing a jingle for John Deere right now...

"She thinks my tractor's sexxxyyyy!"

Quote: : Also, times have changed.

"Selling out" is an outdated term anyway, because it doesn't hold the same stigma it once did.

The only people that complain about someone selling out are the people who have never been given the opportunity to do so themselves.

Quote: : The only people that complain about someone selling out are the people who have never been given the opportunity to do so themselves.

Agree. Given the opportunity, they'd sell out in a heart beat. But- they probably can't sell out their local coffee shop, so...

You can understand the bitterness.

If a company wanted to use one of my tracks for TV, hell yes.

If a company approached me and wanted me to write something cheesy for which they'd pay me, hell no.

Actually I had a chance years ago to write a song for the Ice Capades.

The show was based on the Care Bears and they wanted a song that included having a "jewel in your belly." There was no way in hell I was doing that. There's nothing wrong with writing for someone who will pay you, but if you find the process distasteful, then that's a personal choice whether the money is worth the distaste.

Quote: : Actually I had a chance years ago to write a song for the Ice Capades.

The show was based on the Care Bears and they wanted a song that included having a "jewel in your belly." There was no way in hell I was doing that.

Why not? Personally, I'd have a blast with that.

Before I got into Black Metal, I used to write songs about jeweled bellies all the time.

Oh yes, I thoroughly agree!!

I’d jump at any chance to have any of my songs played anywhere, no matter how seemingly “lame”.

I’ve just, in my time, come across a few people who consider it really bad to “sell out” (and yes, it is an outdated term) and consider anything other than strictly playing on the charts, the radio, and performing live, selling out.

Any TV stuff, commercials, etc.

They think their music is too good (self-important and pretentious really) to be brought down to that level.

Lol.

Quote: : If a company wanted to use one of my tracks for TV, hell yes.

If a company approached me and wanted me to write something cheesy for which they'd pay me, hell no.

Actually I had a chance years ago to write a song for the Ice Capades.

The show was based on the Care Bears and they wanted a song that included having a "jewel in your belly." There was no way in hell I was doing that. There's nothing wrong with writing for someone who will pay you, but if you find the process distasteful, then that's a personal choice whether the money is worth the distaste.

Absolutely. As they say, the reason why there is so much mediocrity in the world is because there are too many people who don't like their jobs.

The people who excel are the people who have a real enthusiasm for what they do.

I imagine there's little room for mediocrity in the advertising industry, and that it's highly competitive.

Deep down, you really have to enjoy the process in order to get very far. It isn't that I find the process distasteful;

It's that I feel I'd have little interest in racking my brain trying to come up with a 30 second song about chewing gum.

I'm afraid I just wouldn't have the focus and drive I'd need to come up with something to make the suits happy, and I could get burned out on it really quickly.

If I could crank something out in 20 minutes with little effort and watch the money roll in ("only 30 seconds long--how hard can it be, right?" ), sure I'd do it.

But I suspect, like with anything else, that there'd probably be much more to it that that.

I only have so much energy and motivation to go around, and I'd rather spend it making music I like. But if I got approached to use one of my already existing songs in a commercial, that would be a different story.

I doubt there would be many circumstances where I would say no to that.

Quote: : I only have so much energy and motivation to go around, and I'd rather spend it making music I like.

This is a point of being a part time musician (or hobbyist) that is very important to some of us.

I know a friend who got out of audio engineering for the same reason - he didn't want to spend most of his time listening to (recording) bands he didn't like.

I can totally relate.

It's why I don't give lessons. It's also why I used to play only my own music at gigs, and why I now play a lot of covers mixed with my own music...

I got bored playing just my own songs. But back on point.

I'd rather work a day job than do music on someone else's terms.

I'd rather do part time music and do exactly what I want, rather than full time music and do stuff I don't want to do.

The people who do full time music AND are only doing what they want to do are very rare, and very lucky.

This goes to the songwriter as prostitute theory...if you really want to make your living at songwriting, then every paycheck is valid, no matter what.

What do you care if the song gets people irritated, or is just plain dumb, if you get a check for it?

Who will actually know you wrote that music?

Probably no one. Laugh all the way to the bank.

Or the prostitute as prostitute theory...

If you like sex and don't mind having sex with anyone who pays, then... Here's one of dictionary.com's definitions: The act or an instance of offering or devoting one's talent to an unworthy use or cause. Unworthy is pretty broad.

Is it unworthy if I'm doing it to put food on my family's table?

If a bear poops in the woods, and no one smells it... Some would argue that we all prostitute ourselves at our jobs.

Sometimes it does indeed feel that way. I think people should write whatever they want and play whatever they want.

Richard, in the great scheme, yes, anyone who earns a living is essentially prostituting themselves, unless they truly love what they are doing. But again, all these people seem to think that writing jingles is somehow beneath them, or unpleasant...go ask Barry Manilow about that. Go ask Carol King about that. Go ask Neil Diamond about that. Go ask Neil Sedaka... Theyall wrote jingles and songs for other people, some of them pretty vapid, lame, annoying, cloying, childish...whatever you want to call it. Seems to me that old system (the Tin Pan Alley/Brill Building) made these jingle writers into millionaires and stars in their own right. So to me, if some one came up and said "hey, I heard a song of yours, and I want to use it as background music for a Depends commercial" I would jump at it.

Who would know but me, unless I wanted people to know?

And if the same guy came back six months later and asked nme to write background music for a a Summer's Eve commercial, why would I turn it down?

And if someone else came and asked me to write something about fuzzy little critters with trees growing out of their butts, I would take a stab at it.

Quote: : richard, in the great scheme, yes, anyone who earns a living is essentially prostituting themselves, unless they truly love what they are doing. But again, all these people seem to think that writing jingles is somehow beneath them, or unpleasant...go ask Barry Manilow about that. Go ask Carol King about that. Go ask Neil Diamond about that.First of Go ask Neil Sedaka... Theyall wrote jingles and songs for other people, some of them pretty vapid, lame, annoying, cloying, childish...whatever you want to call it. Seems to me that old system (the Tin Pan Alley/Brill Building) made these jingle writers into millionaires and stars in their own right. So to me, if some one came up and said "hey, I heard a song of yours, and I want to use it as background music for a Depends commercial" I would jump at it.

Who would know but me, unless I wanted people to know?

And if the same guy came back six months later and asked nme to write background music for a a Summer's Eve commercial, why would I turn it down?

And if someone else came and asked me to write something about fuzzy little critters with trees growing out of their butts, I would take a stab at it.

Just to respond to this, first of all, out of the artists you mention, I’m pretty sure Barry Manilow was the only one who had anything to do with jingles.

And that’s fine—I’m sure it was a stepping stone to the career he eventually had.

Although I think it’s worth mentioning that he got out of it when he got the chance. Second of all, although I can't speak for anyone else, the point isn’t whether or not it’s beneath me to write for commercials.

Actually, I think it’s good songwriting training.

If you can get a message across in 30 seconds, imagine what you can do in 3 minutes. The point is, how much of my time am I willing to sacrifice in order to be successful at it?

I admit I don’t know much about the jingle writing business, but I’m willing to bet it’s far from easy money.

I also know myself enough to know there are only a limited number of hours each day where I am in “music mode”.

If I spend that time writing stuff I have no enthusiasm for, then I’ll likely be too burned out to write the stuff I really want to write. It really all depends on the circumstances.

If some guy just came up to me and said, “I want to hire you to write a song for X commercial”, then yeah, I’d be dumb to turn down that kind of an offer.

But how realistic is that scenario?

How likely would it be that some guy is calling on me to write music for a commercial?

Not likely, without some major hustling on my part, building my reputation to get to that point.

Writing lots of jingles, getting rejected, changing a song dozens of times at the request of a client, until I eventually get a break. So if I’m gonna go through that much trouble, it’s got to be something I’m passionate enough about to do it for.

Otherwise I might as well just keep my day job. The popularity of jingles seems to be waning anyway.

Most major commercials now either use obscure songs from upcoming indie artists (as I said, I wouldn’t mind getting one of my existing songs in a commercial), or classic rock songs.

The market with the most potential nowadays would probably be local radio spots for Joe’s Auto Body, or something like that.

Might bring in a little extra money, but probably not enough to give up the day job. If anything, I think I’d rather be a jingle singer .

Show up to the studio, sing my part, leave, and get paid.

I could certainly get on board with that. Maybe some musicians would feel that writing for commercials is beneath them;

I certainly don’t.

It's just that there are things I'd much rather put my energies into.

Quote: : The popularity of jingles seems to be waning anyway Maybe you forgot about last year's never ending series of "freecreditreport.com" commercials.

Those certainly created some buzz, and basically BECAUSE it was a "cheesy" jingle.

In fact, I read a news story about how the guy from those spots is Canadian, didn't sing the songs, but gets asked to whenever he visits the states.

I'd LOVE to be the guy who had to jump through a few hoops to land that writing gig. Not to insult anyone's artistry here, but do you people even like writing songs?

Does this act cause you pain or discomfort?

Are you afraid you're going to squander your magical yet limited song-writing time/powers/energy?

I mean, with the amount of stipulations some of you put on something that should just be a natural, fun process...

I kind of don't see where you guys are coming from.

Quote: : Not to insult anyone's artistry here, but do you people even like writing songs?

Does this act cause you pain or discomfort?

Are you afraid you're going to squander your magical yet limited song-writing time/powers/energy?

I mean, with the amount of stipulations some of you put on something that should just be a natural, fun process...

I kind of don't see where you guys are coming from.

To answer your question...yeah, you basically have it right.

Except for the "magical" part.

Nobody's claiming it's magic.

If it were magic, there'd be no work involved.

It's enjoyable, but it still takes work.

Writing jingles wouldn't cause me pain and discomfort, but it would feel like a homework assignment, because I don't like jingles. Good for you, if great songs just flow out of you like water.

That sounds more like magic to me.

For the rest of us mortals, it typically takes a good deal of effort to get something good.

And if it's a work for hire, then you'd better deliver something good (not by your own standards, but by the requirements of those who are hiring you), or you're out of the job. Look at it this way;

If you can't stand a certain genre of music, would you really want to devote most of your days trying to write in that genre?

Jingles annoy me, so why would I want to spend my all my time writing them?

If I really want to make a buck, to me, there are better ways of doing so.

Gordon Lightfoot wrote and sang jingles.

Richard Marx was a veteran jingle singer.

Yes, most singers and songwriters move away from jingles after they become "artists" or "stars," but it can happen the other way as well.

Survivor's lead singer (can't remember his name) is the emotive rock vocalist on Budweiser's "Real Men of Genius" commercials. And remember -- Steve Winwood and Eric Clapton both did beer commercials back in the 80s.




Omgili Home About FAQ Plugins Usenet